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Car Forum / Pontiac / Pontiac Firebird / April 2005Preserving Collectibles
In the past I have stated there are Very Few "Rare" Third Gen cars. I should have said there are Very Few "Special" or "One of a Kind" Third gens. It seams to me the Collectible cars are falling prey to Idiots & butt-pirates. Who are either parting them out with out knowing what they have (or why it should be saved), or doing gawd awful Kitt-Conversions on them. Take a look at this link: http://www.ohok.com/82recaro/pictures06.html It's from a site about Real Recaro edition Trans Am's. Low production cars with some value, and a idiot taking one to destroy for a silly looking TV car clone. There are plenty of Low Volume Special Edition F-cars out there, with one year only parts. These cars include 82 to 85 Convertibles, Michem T/A's, Trans Am Notch Backs, Early & Later Police packed cars (California Highway Patrol starting in 1979 I beleave), 1LE SCCA cars, Turbo T/A's and a small catalog of others. In the 1982 to 1992 production run for Third Gen F-cars GM let people get away with making some nice low volume (under 10,000 unit) cars. These cars are now fading away, like old Muscle cars have. People are interested in these cars, their documentation, restoration & preservation. I don't have the time, money, or resources to save them all my self. I have One that I am trying to, yet it's actual history may not be what I originally beleaved (long story, bad documents, dishonest people). Im still looking for the 1987 T/A (possible GTA) that the West Virgina State Highway Patrol owned and used. It was a mentioned in Hotrod back in the 80's as were a few other of there "stealth" interceptor cars. These were GM & WV HP Modified Vehicals to catch Exotics playing on the Turn pike. My goal is to track down, verify, and own all of the Mid & late 80's F-car examples. Especially before some idiot takes and attempts to turn it in to a "Knight Rider". It's time those of us who enjoy a car with history, or exclusivity stand up, and take action. If people had in the late 70's threw mid 80's 20 Yenko Camaro's, 8 C.O.P.O. Nova's, and countless collectible Chevelles would still be here (stories I have verified my self). One of my business partners got a 69 C.O.P.O. Nova in 1986, and parted it out. He did not even know what it was at the time, or that it was a a factory Big Block. Only seeing the VIN data from his files told me anything. Charles M. Bendig The Rare Parts Hunter A person dedicated to the preservation of all American special cars & trucks. Charlees, After reading your message about rare items.... I was wondering if you could shed some light on what I have? I can't find actual production # for this optioned car. The car is a 81 Z28,T-top,4- speed 305, 3:42 dog leg. (Only a 305 was allowed with the 4 speed in the US for 81 ) This car was also built in Norwood . One book I have says 20k or so were Z's,next page says 40k were, but no break down for the tranny option. Thanks for your time......Stan > Charlees, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks for your time......Stan 1981 Factory Options RPO Description Qty Retail * 1FP87 Camaro Sport Coupe 62,614 $6,581.23 1FS87 Camaro Berlinetta Coupe 20,253 7,356.23 1FP87 Camaro Z28 Sport Coupe 43,272 8,025.23 AN6 Adjustable Seat Back, driver side 16,688 23.00 AU3 Power Door Locks 24,683 86.00 A01 Soft Ray Tinted Glass, all windows 112,832 70.00 A31 Power Windows 38,428 133.00 B37 Floor Mats, color-keyed front and rear 65,490 25.00 B80 Molding, roof drip 57,849 24.00 B84 Moldings, body side 39,514 44.00 B93 Moldings, door edge 32,516 13.00 CC1 Roof Panels, removable glass 30,445 644.00 CD4 Windshield Wipers, intermittent 31,982 38.00 C49 Defogger, rear window 60,058 99.00 C60 Air Conditioning 96,095 525.00 D35 Mirrors, sport right and left remote exterior 54,317 43.00 D80 Spoiler, rear 33,101 57.00 F41 Suspension, sport 3,604 41.00 G80 Rear Axle, limited slip 12,126 63.00 G92 Rear Axle, performance ratio 933 18.00 K35 Speed Control, with resume 35,364 123.00 LG4 Engine, 305ci, 150hp V8 17,909 75.00 LM1 Engine, 350ci, 190hp V8 (req Z28) 37,400 nc L39 Engine, 267ci, 115hp V8 18,826 75.00 MM3 Transmission, 3-spd wide range manual (req LC3 engine) nc MM4 Transmission, 4-spd wide range manual (req. LG4, NA w/ YF5 cal emissions) 10,780 133.00 MX0 Transmission - 3 spd. automatic TH350C (Z28, converter locks 2nd & 3rd gear) 58.00 MX1 Transmission - 3 spd. automatic TH350C (converter Locks 3rd gear only) 107,760 332.00 N18 Locks, wheel covers (Berlinetta only) 4,964 32.00 N33 Tilt Steering Column 69,837 75.00 N90 Wheels, aluminum 31,153 312.00 PE1 Wheels, custom-style 1,800 142.00 P01 Wheel Covers, bright metal 3,341 43.00 QJY Tires, P205/75R14 radial whitewall 63,839 47.00 QKL Tires, P205/75R14 radial white letter 16,364 60.00 TR9 Lighting, auxiliary 36,443 37.00 TR4 Headlights, halogen 8,715 36.00 UA1 Battery, heavy-duty 21,504 19.00 UM2 Radio, AM-FM with stereo tape 8,182 252.00 UN3 Radio, AM-FM with stereo cassette 23,665 264.00 UP6 Radio, AM-FM stereo CB and power antenna 208 487.00 U05 Horns, dual 18,212 9.00 U14 Special Instrumentation 4,214 111.00 U35 Clock 6,740 23.00 U58 Radio, AM-FM stereo 26,008 178.00 U63 Radio, AM 25,031 90.00 U69 Radio, AM-FM 8,264 142.00 U75 Antenna, power 7,552 47.00 U76 Antenna, windshield type 27,674 25.00 U80 Speaker, rear seat 7,667 19.00 V08 Cooling, heavy-duty 5,248 58.00 YF5 Emission Equipment, required for California 9,911 46.00 ZJ7 Rally Wheels 47,478 93.00 Z21 Style Trim Group 49,834 72.00 Z49 Canadian Equipment 15,417 Z54 Interior Decor and Quiet Sound Package 12,266 63.00 * Option prices are retail for base model. Prices could be reduced or option could be had at no charge if it was included as standard equipment on the Z28 or Berlinetta model. > > I can't find actual production # for this optioned car. > > The car is a 81 Z28,T-top,4- speed 305, 3:42 dog leg. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > but no break down for the tranny option. > Thanks for your time......Stan > 1981 Factory Options (And a few more from my build sheet on this car) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > A01 Soft Ray Tinted Glass, all windows 112,832 > A31 Power Windows 38,428 B77 W/S Black Mld B81 Del Ext Orna B94 Ext Ornament B89 B/Lite Black B97 RR WL Spoiler > CC1 Roof Panels, removable glass 30,445 > CD4 Windshield Wipers, intermittent 31,982 > C49 Defogger, rear window 60,058 > C60 Air Conditioning 96,095 > D35 Mirrors, sport right and left remote exterior 54,317 > D80 Spoiler, rear 33,101 D88 Z28 Stripes D92 Dr Hand Tape > F41 Suspension, sport 3,604 ( Mine says F41 Spec Suspensi) GU6 3.42 Axle Ratio K19 Air Injection K73 70 Amp Alt. > LG4 Engine, 305ci, 150hp V8 17,909 > MM4 Transmission, 4-spd wide range manual' (req. LG4, NA w/ YF5 cal emissions) 10,780 M24 4 Spd 83 MM Ma NA5 Standard Emission NB1 3-C Emission > N33 Tilt Steering Column 69,837 > N90 Wheels, aluminum 31,153 QGR 225/70R15 W/L T93 Spec Tail Lam UP8 Rad Provi Ste 55A Gold Stripe > UN3 Radio, AM-FM with stereo cassette 23,665 UN9 Radio Supr. G > U05 Horns, dual 18,212 > U14 Special Instrumentation 4,214 > U35 Clock 6,740 > U76 Antenna, windshield type 27,674 VK3 Lic mount Brk > V08 Cooling, heavy-duty 5,248 Z28 Spec Perf Pac 64B Doeskin cloth 64I Doeskin Mix 29LDk Blue Met 55PGold Wheel 2Dr Std Camaro Under this info it has on the build sheet 29 with 11 -2's to form the # 2 and 14-9's to form the9 under that is UW RR Shocks Also note by your info,only 3604 were made with the F41 suspention, I suspect this is all camaro's made and not Z28's only This info also doesn't contain the Norwood VS Van Nuys breakdown. Looking for specific info on the way mine is optioned fron Norwood Thanks for the info though.......Stan > Also note by your info,only 3604 were made with the F41 suspention, > I suspect this is all camaro's made and not Z28's only [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks for the info though.......Stan Check this site out, it's where I got that rpo list from. Probably the most info on 2nd gen camaros in any one spot anywhere. My '73 RS/Z-28 is 1 of 394 that were sold in Canada. http://www.nastyz28.com/ I'm with you on this issue. I feel the same about preserving 2nd gen cars. Lately second gen T/As have become so expensive that I have thought about picking up a 3rd gen for cruising to car shows, etc. I want T-Tops this time so I was thinking of the '89 GTA with 350 and T-Tops. I think that was the only year that combo was available. Is that right? > In the past I have stated there are Very Few "Rare" Third Gen cars. I > should have said there are Very Few "Special" or "One of a Kind" Third [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > A person dedicated to the preservation of all American special cars & > trucks. > I'm with you on this issue. I feel the same about preserving 2nd gen cars. > Lately second gen T/As have become so expensive that I have thought about > picking up a 3rd gen for cruising to car shows, etc. I want T-Tops this > time so I was thinking of the '89 GTA with 350 and T-Tops. I think that was > the only year that combo was available. Is that right? I have never SEEN a Factory installed 350 in a T-topped Third Gen. I have heard for years that GTA's could be had that way, yet have never seen it or any production figures to support it. Charles There were none.... GTAs with Manual Transmissions and/or T-tops were 305s Hardtop Automatics ONLY had 350s > > I'm with you on this issue. I feel the same about preserving 2nd gen cars. > > Lately second gen T/As have become so expensive that I have thought about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > seen it or any production figures to support it. > Charles Charles, I had a 87 GTA flame red, t tops, auto and the 350 in it. Possibly one of the best cars I ve had here in canada. And not a single leak from the t tops. I was told by someone who has an 89 GTA t-top cars didnt have 350s.....I guess I was told wrong then J > I was told by someone who has an 89 GTA t-top cars didnt have 350s.....I > guess I was told wrong then > > J Of course you were you Lying, Thiefing, No Knowledge Idiot. You not Quilified to tell someone if a light is red, yellow or Green. Charles >>>I'm with you on this issue. I feel the same about preserving 2nd gen > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > one of the best cars I ve had here in canada. And not a single leak from the > t tops. Now was the 350 Installed at the facotory? If so the emmissions decal would have said 5.7 liter. Charles > >>>I'm with you on this issue. I feel the same about preserving 2nd gen > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > would have said 5.7 liter. > Charles Yep it was. The 5.7 was a factory option in canada for sure.... both on the GTA, the Formula, the TransAm and the camaro lines. Now in 88 and above I know there was a year ot two where you couldnt get the 350 and t tops until they fixed the probs.. Like I said.. I never had any problems with mine though. Another interesting fact... in 87 here in Canada... the GTA came standard with Porsche style square mirrors... until about half way through the production run I believe.. I ordered mine in late 86 so I got one of those equipped cars.... gave it a bit different look for sure. Bruce Oh yeah, the paddle style mirrors were cool. I remember them from the '87 catalog. I'm going to have to start going through all my back issues of HPP because there is a story that goes with the paddle style mirrors as well. I think they were only offered on the first 500 or 1000 or so cars in '87 or something like that. In the catalog for '87 I got the impression that they were standard, but they were not. I also remeber in '82 when I was 19 looking at the brand new TA. I remember one on the showroom floor that did not have a hood scoop. The salesman thought I was nuts when I said "where is the hood bird and scoop." Well, I was only 19. He told me you only got the scoop with the new super deluxe croos fire fuel injection (now that may have taken on some mediocre connotations today but back then that sounded like a really awesome option to have). I have heard that the scoop was optional with some other package though. You know Charles, your post is really bringing me back...that '82 was shiney and the new car smell was just so cool. In shopping around these cars are not that easily found in excellent condition. I already have a second gen project (one that is way over my head by the way) so I want something to show. Oh well, my wife scheduled an appontment with a bunch of landscapers for patio quotes so i will probably just have to sit out on the patio and read about the cars. I think I am going to send out a bunch of parts (hood hinges, misc under hood parts) to an acid bath company. Has anyone done this. I really don't have time to polish everything myself. >> >>>I'm with you on this issue. I feel the same about preserving 2nd gen >> > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Bruce > Oh yeah, the paddle style mirrors were cool. I remember them from the '87 > catalog. I'm going to have to start going through all my back issues of HPP [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > hood parts) to an acid bath company. Has anyone done this. I really don't > have time to polish everything myself. You can pick up a clean 82 to 84 Recaro T/A for around $4,000. Cross Fire Injection was a nifty idea poorly exicuted. Yet a very commen option from 82 to late 83. As for acid cleaning, no I have not delt with that. I have a "Cuda" brand parts washer that I need to rebuild so I can use Caustic Soda to clean mechanical parts. For body parts I have a small sand blaster box & a small pressure pot. For larger Items my land lord has a full service sand blasting business. The only reason you should have to polish the parts is if your plating them. Charles A friend of mine has an '89 Formula 350 with T-tops. I had read somewhere that they were offerred this year but GM pulled them after '89 because there were too many warranty issues. I guess the 350 had enough torque to twist the frame with t-tps causing them to leak. I can't remember where I read that (probably some issue of HPP) but these cars are out there. >> I'm with you on this issue. I feel the same about preserving 2nd gen >> cars. Lately second gen T/As have become so expensive that I have thought [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > or any production figures to support it. > Charles ok.....I knew there was an issue with frames twisting..... J > ok.....I knew there was an issue with frames twisting..... > > J How could you, you know Nothing. You never will know anything. You should not be allowed to even touch a computer. Charles |
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