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Car Forum / Pontiac / Pontiac Firebird / July 2005

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67 Camaro SS Project Car

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curtisbergeron@verizon.net - 11 Jul 2005 16:36 GMT
Hello,

I am looking at restoring a 67 Camaro SS.  My question is, what is the
best way to go about finding one for restoration?  I know in the idea
world the numbers should match, etc. but I think that is really hard to
do in todays market.

I would really prefer to restore a 67 SS 396 4spd but with all the
searches that I have done they seem to be very hard to come across
other than already restored machines which are also very hard to come
across.

I guess if I can't find one of these I might resort to restoring an old
pickup truck instead.  My father-in-law has a 67 Mercury Comet with 390
but that car does not exactly thrill me.  I like the old cars and the
challenge of restoring one.

Any suggestions for somebody looking to restore a beautiful old car?

Thanks.
Curtis
Terry - 11 Jul 2005 20:33 GMT
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Thanks.
> Curtis

Finding a good first gen RS/SS big block 4 speed with numbers matching is
like finding a virgin hooker--
extremely improbable. I study Camaro prices obsessively, and I can tell you
that a numbers matching
Camaro RS/SS 396 in ANY condition will cost you a premium price. You can pay
over $25K for one
that needs complete restoration if it is all numbers matching. So, it
depends on how deep
your pockets are, and how long your intend to keep the car. Another factor
is what you
plan to do with it-- it can be almost too risky to use a highly optioned car
for a daily driver, kind
of takes the fun out of cruising if you are always worried about someone
scratching your
car at the supermarket.  I owned a '67 Camaro RS/SS a few years back but
sold it and purchased a '68 Camaro sport coupe
to restore, and it was a good move. I didn't want to modify anything because
it might hurt the value of the car.
This '68 is almost completely restored, I've had a hell of a lot of
fun with it during the past couple years, now I'm thinking about selling it
and doing another Camaro restoration.

The stakes are so high nowadays with the RS SS or Z/28 Camaros that you
really have to stick to stock and/or original parts.
But with a 'plain jane' Camaro you can build it to your ideal vision of a
Camaro.
Originality is a plus, but your car won't go down in value if you decide to
go with
a custom paint job, or mag wheels, or a high-performance engine, or a 5 or 6
speed
transmission, etc. There are still some sport coupes around in relatively
good shape
for under 10K...

BTW I once owned a '64 Mercury Comet convertible, sure wish I had kept it
and restored it!

Terry M.
Curtis - 12 Jul 2005 15:44 GMT
Terry,

Thanks for the info.  I kinda figured finding a 67 SS might be hard to
do.  I guess if I have to I could pickup a 67 SS350.  I would rather a
396 but I guess whatever will work.  Or, I might just do as you
suggested, pickup a sport coupe and build a 454 for it with a 6spd
tranny and make it how I want it and badge it as an SS just for looks.

I plan on driving mine quite a bit during the summer months so a
matching numbers restore may not be for me.  But, the thought of doing
it sounds like fun!

Hmmm, back to the think tank!

Curtis
Terry - 12 Jul 2005 21:29 GMT
> Terry,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Curtis

If you plan on your car being a daily driver, going with a sport coupe
really sounds like the best way to go...There are a few RS/SS/Z/28's around
my town,
but you never see them on the street, except maybe for a car show, I know
the owners
and they say they are just too afraid of taking the chance of ruining their
investment.

I drive my '68 nearly every day spring, summer, and fall (when it's running,
lol!) Even a trip to
the grocery store can be an adventure with all the attention these cars get.
Recently I was
getting gas, a woman got out of her car with a baby in her arm, started
running toward me
yelling into a cell phone something about seeing a Camaro...she forgot about
her kid and almost dropped him!

Another thing, if you were to restore a 396SS, you'd always be thinking
about putting
in a larger, high performance engine if you have the 'need for speed.' Might
as well build the car
you want and spend some good years driving it instead of just storing it in
the garage. Just my 2cents.

Terry M.
Charles Bendig - 13 Jul 2005 08:52 GMT
> Terry,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Curtis

    Badging a car a SS when it's not is stupid. Just like putting Z/28
badges on cars they don't belong on. So called "Clone" cars are nothing
more then a Joke to real car people.
Charles
RSCamaro - 13 Jul 2005 23:35 GMT
>    Badging a car a SS when it's not is stupid. Just like putting Z/28
>badges on cars they don't belong on. So called "Clone" cars are nothing
>more then a Joke to real car people.
>Charles

And yet they are getting stupid money for them at auctions and in car
trader magazines.  I don't understand it myself, it must be something
in the water.

                            ...Ron
--
68' Camaro RS
88' Firebird Formula
00' Mustang GT Vert
Andy Warren - 14 Jul 2005 01:27 GMT
>> Badging a car a SS when it's not is stupid. Just like putting Z/28
>>badges on cars they don't belong on. So called "Clone" cars are nothing
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> 88' Firebird Formula
> 00' Mustang GT Vert

"BADGES? We don't need no stinkin' badges"
Sorry guys, just couldn't resist.
My '88 GTA:
http://home.mindspring.com/~andywarren/id3.html
AW.
Charles Bendig - 14 Jul 2005 07:33 GMT
>>    Badging a car a SS when it's not is stupid. Just like putting Z/28
>>badges on cars they don't belong on. So called "Clone" cars are nothing
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> 88' Firebird Formula
> 00' Mustang GT Vert

   
    It's Easy to understand. 70% of the auction going public does not
understand the differances. Nor do they know how to verify. To them if
it has a Z/28 badge or a SS badge that's what it is.

    Yet you take something really rough like my 68 Elky SS. It's the Real
Deal, 396, was a 3 speed manuial converted to a automatic (TH400), it
even has a 12 bolt rear end. Im asking $1,500 because it's rough & the
engine needs to be rebuilt. Most people think it's worth $500!

    Just think what it woudl be worth if I had the funds & the time to
restore it and find a date correct 3 speed?

Charles
lab~rat - 14 Jul 2005 20:16 GMT
>>>    Badging a car a SS when it's not is stupid. Just like putting Z/28
>>>badges on cars they don't belong on. So called "Clone" cars are nothing
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>understand the differances. Nor do they know how to verify. To them if
>it has a Z/28 badge or a SS badge that's what it is.

Barrett/Jackson is auctioning these cars clearly denoted as clones and
people are still throwing crazy money at them.  One of the magazines
had a section on clones and went into what makes a quality clone.

They were featuring a GT 350 and showed the effort the guy took to
make the car as authentic as possible in every detail, and it was an
impressive car.

>    Yet you take something really rough like my 68 Elky SS. It's the Real
>Deal, 396, was a 3 speed manuial converted to a automatic (TH400), it
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>    Just think what it woudl be worth if I had the funds & the time to
>restore it and find a date correct 3 speed?

Any pics?  I'm not really in the market, I just like Elkys...
--
lab~rat  >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
Charles Bendig - 15 Jul 2005 08:35 GMT
 > Any pics?  I'm not really in the market, I just like Elkys...

    Not at current. There will be when It gets it's turn on Ebay.
Charles
RSCamaro - 15 Jul 2005 01:03 GMT
<snip>
>    Yet you take something really rough like my 68 Elky SS. It's the Real
>Deal, 396, was a 3 speed manuial converted to a automatic (TH400), it
>even has a 12 bolt rear end. Im asking $1,500 because it's rough & the
>engine needs to be rebuilt. Most people think it's worth $500!

Too bad, I just happen to be in the market for another 68' car.  I was
trying to buy my managers 68'SS 350 ChevelleCamino that he's had since
new but he doesn't seem to want to sell.  I even have a big block core
just itchin'-- that's just itchin' to be rebuilt and dropped in.  I
also wish I had the extra funds to buy yours but most of my play money
seems to be dissapearing into my 68' RS.  It's like a vacuum.  

It seems that I'm spending alot of money on my Mustang as well,
replacing the axles this weekend.  I bent one when I wiped out taking
a right turn with the factory Good Year Z rated junk that it came
with.  I put Fuzion ZRI tires on and that stopped most sliding, and
the tires don't break free hardly at all now.

                     ...Ron

>    Just think what it woudl be worth if I had the funds & the time to
>restore it and find a date correct 3 speed?
>
>Charles

--
68' Camaro RS
88' Firebird Formula
00' Mustang GT Vert
Charles Bendig - 15 Jul 2005 08:43 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> also wish I had the extra funds to buy yours but most of my play money
> seems to be dissapearing into my 68' RS.  It's like a vacuum.  

    Ill take payments. I just keep the Elky till it's paid for, plus a
small payment fee.

    This puppy is rough as they get. Some Inbred put quarters on over the
old ones. Cancer thru out the body. Currently has a 69 307 dog house on
it. I am trading the 69 front bumper and brackets for a correct 68
bumper. I do have a pair of repairible 68 fenders and a correct 68-69
style SS hood that go with it.

    The 396 has sat with out one valve cover & minus the intake for
probably 6 years. So it would need to see a compitent rebuilder (your
not going to toss out a savible 396 these days).

    The interior needs to predy much be replaced. You could save the  SS
wood rim steering wheel.

    To the right person the thing is worth saving. If I was rich, it would
be me. Since Im poor, it will be someone else.
Charles
Terry - 15 Jul 2005 13:34 GMT
> <snip>
>> Yet you take something really rough like my 68 Elky SS. It's the Real
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> with.  I put Fuzion ZRI tires on and that stopped most sliding, and
> the tires don't break free hardly at all now.

Ron are you looking for a project car or restored car? I have a '68 Camaro
383
that is almsot completely restored, I might be interested in trading for
another first gen
Camaro--

Terry
RSCamaro - 16 Jul 2005 17:50 GMT
>Ron are you looking for a project car or restored car? I have a '68 Camaro
>383
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Terry

Thanks for the offer Terry, but my car is like hens teeth or it is to
me anyway.  It's just an RS but came with Deluxe Houndstooth, A/C,
power windows, speed warning, California emmisions, etc.  I'd never
find another or be able to pay for it if I let it go.  When I'm done
I'll be wanting another project to keep me busy. I really want a 68'
Bird but I won't be surprised with myself if I don't actively seek
either a Elky or an AMX.

                         ...Ron
--
68' Camaro RS
88' Firebird Formula
00' Mustang GT Vert
Terry - 17 Jul 2005 04:19 GMT
>>Ron are you looking for a project car or restored car? I have a '68 Camaro
>>383
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> 88' Firebird Formula
> 00' Mustang GT Vert

Ron, any of those would be good projects...I just went with my son to
the Car Craft Nationals this weekend, really got me thinking about
trying an offbeat project, for me it's been mostly camaros for 25 years.
I've always wanted to make a v-8 Vega, I saw a few of those too this
weekend-- Terry
FBR - 17 Jul 2005 15:59 GMT
> >>Ron are you looking for a project car or restored car? I have a '68 Camaro
> >>383
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> I've always wanted to make a v-8 Vega, I saw a few of those too this
> weekend-- Terry

Years ago a buddy had a Vega wagon.  He did the V8 drop in but that wasn't
good enough.  He then cut down the back and made it into a little pickup.
Turned out pretty nice.  In hot weather he pulled the door pins, removed the
doors and got some air into the dang thing.  I do remember it got hotter
than the hinges of Hades in that thing during the summer.
RSCamaro - 17 Jul 2005 16:57 GMT
>Years ago a buddy had a Vega wagon.  He did the V8 drop in but that wasn't
>good enough.  He then cut down the back and made it into a little pickup.
>Turned out pretty nice.  In hot weather he pulled the door pins, removed the
>doors and got some air into the dang thing.  I do remember it got hotter
>than the hinges of Hades in that thing during the summer.

I had a 76' wagon when I was a teenager.  Teal blue with a tan
naugahide interior and auto.  I never got around to stuffing a V8 into
it but I did rebuild the steel sleeved, aluminum blocked, iron headed
4 cylinder engine.  I had absolutely no power but did look pretty good
IMO (for what it was).  The site below has a pic of what it looked
like except for the color.  I always liked the vents in the rear and
the tilt foward hood.

http://www.chez.com/yvincent/photo/chevrolet/sous_compacte/76vega.html

                         ...Ron
--
68' Camaro RS
88' Firebird Formula
00' Mustang GT Vert
Terry - 17 Jul 2005 18:58 GMT
>>Years ago a buddy had a Vega wagon.  He did the V8 drop in but that wasn't
>>good enough.  He then cut down the back and made it into a little pickup.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> 88' Firebird Formula
> 00' Mustang GT Vert

Yeah I also liked both the hatchback look and the wagon (Kamback?)
I never owned a Vega, but back in the '70s when I was a teenager I lived in
Phoenix,
the street scene back then was incredible, a lot of people in Southern
California were
offering v-8 conversion kits. I really wanted to buy one, but then I decided
to go the camaro route for the next 30 years.
I'd really like to do a conversion now that I know so much more about cars
(although apparently
not enough to stop me from stuffing a v8 in an economy car...) Even a stock
350 would be a great power to
weight ratio in a vega, and you don't have to worry about hacking up a
classic car to do it--

There have been a couple v8 vegas on Ebay lately, I inquired about this one
(Ebay #4558600101),
what do you guys think about this car? Any red flags? This car is located in
my state.

Terry M.
RSCamaro - 19 Jul 2005 00:41 GMT
>Yeah I also liked both the hatchback look and the wagon (Kamback?)
>I never owned a Vega, but back in the '70s when I was a teenager I lived in
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>Terry M.

It looks good to me, the price looks sound also if the owner isn't
pulling anyones leg about the condition of the car.

                     ...Ron

--
68' Camaro RS
88' Firebird Formula
00' Mustang GT Vert
Terry - 19 Jul 2005 02:34 GMT
>>Yeah I also liked both the hatchback look and the wagon (Kamback?)
>>I never owned a Vega, but back in the '70s when I was a teenager I lived
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> 88' Firebird Formula
> 00' Mustang GT Vert

I thought that vega looked like a sound car too, but with a Vega  I'd
definitely want  to see and drive before buying--

T.
FBR - 19 Jul 2005 04:15 GMT
> >>Yeah I also liked both the hatchback look and the wagon (Kamback?)
> >>I never owned a Vega, but back in the '70s when I was a teenager I lived
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> T.

No kidding.  If it hasn't had a tube frame or frame connectors intalled it's
liable to be twisted.  It might look ok but when you drive it it will dog
track on you.
FBR - 19 Jul 2005 04:12 GMT
> >Years ago a buddy had a Vega wagon.  He did the V8 drop in but that wasn't
> >good enough.  He then cut down the back and made it into a little pickup.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> 88' Firebird Formula
> 00' Mustang GT Vert

I think the Vega and Pinto wagons of that era were pretty slick looking
little rides.  Both could have a small block shoehorned in without too much
effort and parts were all over the place.  Surprising that as many of those
that were made there aren't that many still around.
Bruce Porter - 19 Jul 2005 11:54 GMT
>  
>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
>  

Well, way back them, a guy I knew stuffed a SB in his Vega.
The first night out a lady turned left in front of him, and that was all.
I bet most of the SB Vegas' deaths were much more dramatic.
Andy Warren - 19 Jul 2005 12:43 GMT
>>>>Years ago a buddy had a Vega wagon.  He did the V8 drop in but that
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> The first night out a lady turned left in front of him, and that was all.
> I bet most of the SB Vegas' deaths were much more dramatic.

You hit the nail on the head with that one. The short wheel base with all of
the weight in the front made it hard to keep pointed forward. My brother
built a chevy 2 with a high compression (12.5to1) 327 back in the day. It
was damn fast if you could ever get the engine started, but would go
sideways in a heartbeat. It was "rolled". Fortunately no serious injuries.
We learned a valuable lesson about short wheelbases.
Terry - 20 Jul 2005 03:18 GMT
>>>>>Years ago a buddy had a Vega wagon.  He did the V8 drop in but that
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> go sideways in a heartbeat. It was "rolled". Fortunately no serious
> injuries. We learned a valuable lesson about short wheelbases.

Safety concerns is the main reason I'm hesitating about going after a v8
Vega.
I saw one at the Car Craft Summer Nationals last weekend, it had big Mickey
Thompsons
on the back, the damn thing looked like a tiny steam roller, seems like it
would really
want to wander at highway speeds....

Terry
Andy Warren - 20 Jul 2005 03:57 GMT
>>>>>>Years ago a buddy had a Vega wagon.  He did the V8 drop in but that
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Terry
Yeah, really. But why hunt for a Vega to put a V8 in when you can find S-10s
by the dozen for $200 each?
We dropped the engine I built for my car into an S-10 to break it in, at the
track. Did a 1/8 mile burnout. Smoked the tires clean thru the lights. I got
it on video. Do they make an extended cab S-10? One of the fastest low buck
jobs I saw at the track was an S-10 Blazer. It actually had some weight over
the back wheels.
 
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