My 1985 Firebird was recently totaled while legally parked on a local
street by a drunk driver.
I have finally found the responsible party and their insurer, but the
insurer has offered me less for my vehicle than the asking/sale price of
any other 1985 Firebird that I have been able to find anywhere in North
America (both Canada and the US). I have found over thirty 1985s that
have either sold or are currently for sale, and of those for sale, even
with negotiation, I still can't find one, regardless of condition, for
the amount offered by the responsible parties insurer.
Interestingly, when an insurer determines the value of a vehicle to be
insured they use the standard guides, most typically, the NADA price,
but when you suffer a "total loss" as I have, they determine the value
via "CCC Valuescope" or a similar insurance industry affiliated company,
and this value tends to be much less!
My case is likely going to court, so I am asking for your help in
determining the value of my vehicle. So if you have recently sold a
similar vehicle, or know of someone who has, the actual sale price would
be of great use to me.
Also, one source with whom I spoke recommended I try the "Manheim Market
Report" which supposedly lists the actual sale price of cars.
Unfortunately, this seems to be a subscription service for dealers
similar to Mead's Lexis/Nexis service for Attorneys. I have looked
on-line as well as with my local library with no luck, so if you know of
how I may access this service or if you know of something similar, this
would also be of great use to me.
Now, about my car...
My 1985 Pontiac Firebird had 129,601.8 original miles at the time of my
loss.
My 1985 Pontiac Firebird is described as follows:
Included Factory Installed Options all of which still functioned
flawlessly as of the time of my loss with few exceptions as noted:
AR9 EUROPEAN CLOTH BUCKET SEATS (Driver’s Side Front Seat had been
replaced with a non-color matched, otherwise identical, replacement)
A01 ALL WINDOW SOFT RAY GLASS
B34 CARPET FRONT FLOOR MATS (Original Driver’s Side Floor Mat is worn out)
B35 CARPET REAR FLOOR MATS
B57 CUSTOM EXTERIOR GROUP
CONSISTS OF:
LEFT HAND REMOTE SPORT MIRRORS
ROOF DRIP & BELT REVEAL MOLDINGS
CD4 CONTINUOUS CYCLE WINDSHIELD WIPERS
C49 ELECTRIC REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER
C60 CUSTOM AIR CONDITIONING
D42 CARGO SECURITY SCREEN
D80 REAR DECK SPOILER
D98 VINYL ACCENT STRIPE (worn/faded and chipped in spots)
LB8 2.8 LITER V-6 MULTI PORT FUEL INJECTION (MPFI) ENGINE
MX0 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
N33 TILT STEERING WHEEL
PB4 WHEEL LOCKING PACKAGE
PE1 STYLED ALUMINUM 14 INCH WHEELS (some slight nicks/dents in outermost
periphery which didn’t affect their performance)
QMY P195/75R14 RWL STL ALS TIRES (had been replaced several times)
TR9 LAMP GROUP
CONSISTS OF:
HEADLAMP-ON WARNING SYSTEM
TONE GENERATOR
LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT & I/P COUTESY LAMPS
UM7 AM/FM ETR STEREO RADIO SYSTEM WITH CLOCK & SEEK AND SCAN
11L LOWER WHITE EXTERIOR PAINT (in fair condition mainly consisting of
approximately a dozen small coin sized areas of surface rust highlighted
by repeated applications Loctite Extend® Rust Treatment applied in order
to prevent rust through in spots and small (approximately 3” X 4”) area
of rust through below hinge area in lower front portion of driver’s side
door skin, but which did not penetrate into door cavity)
11U UPPER WHITE EXTERIOR PAINT (in good condition)
Included Dealer Installed Options (see copies of original contracts):
BODYGUARD ™ RUST INHIBITOR
HDS HUBET DEALER SERVICES AUTOMOTIVE PROTECTION AND APPEARANCE PROGRAM
CONSISTS OF:
LIFETIME RUST PROTECTION
5 YEAR PAINT PROTECTION
5 YEAR FABRIC PROTECTION
Documented Routine Maintenance:
PERIODIC EXHAUST SYSTEM REPLACEMT FROM THE CATALYTIC CONVERTER TO THE
TAIL PIPES INCLUDING THE EXTENSION PIPE, MUFFLER, AND TAIL PIPES AS
NEEDED WITH THE LAST REPLACEMENT OCCURING JUST 3 DAYS PRIOR TO MY
VEHICLE BEING TOTALLED
REPLACED THE CATALYTIC CONVERTER
LUBE, OIL, FILTER CHANGES BASED ON MANUFACTURER’S RECOMMENDATIONS
PERIODIC FUEL & AIR FILTER REPLACEMENT BASED ON MANUFACTURER’S
RECOMMENDATIONS
PERIODIC COOLING SYSTEM FLUSH BASED ON MANUFACTURER’S RECOMMENDATIONS
REPLACE HEATER CORE
REPLACED RADIATOR
REPLACED MOST COOLING SYSTEM HOSES
PERIODIC DRIVE BELTS REPLACEMENT AS NEEDED
PERIODIC TIRE PRESSURE CHECK/CORRECTION AS NEEDED
PERIODIC TIRE REPAIR/REPLACEMT AS NEEDED
PERIODIC TIRE ROTATION BASED ON MANUFACTURER’S RECOMMENDATIONS
INFREQUENT ALL FLUID TOP OFFS AS NEEDED
R-12 to R-134a AIR CONDITIONING CONVERSION
REPALCED AIR CONDITIONING BLOWER MOTOR
INSTALLED NEW POLYURETHANE STABILIZER BAR END LINKS
REPLACED BOTH SUPPLY AND RETURN FUEL LINES USING ORIGINAL GENUINE
GENERAL MOTORS SINGLE PIECE CUSTOM BENT REPLACEMENTS
PERIODIC OXYGEN SENSOR REPLACEMENT
REPLACED MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR
PERIODIC SPARK PLUGS, WIRES, DISTRIBUTOR CAP, ROTOR, AND COIL
REPLACEMENT AS NEEDED
REPLACED THERMOSTAT
PERIODIC TRANSMISSION FLUID & FILTER CHANGE
REPLACED TRANSMISSION MOUNT
REPALCED WINDSHIELD WASHER PUMP
PERIODIC LAMP REPLACEMENTS AS NEEDED
REPLACED BATTERY AS NEEDED
REPALCED ALTERNATOR/GENERATOR AS NEEDED USING ORIGINAL GENUINE GENERAL
MOTORS REPLACEMENT
REPLACED MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR
PERIODIC WINDSHIELD WIPER BLADE REPLACEMENT AS NEEDED
REPLACED DRIVERS BUCKET SEAT (NOT COLOR MATCHED)
REPLACED IDLER ARM
PERIODIC FRONT-END ALIGNMENT AS NEEDED
PERIOD FRONT WHEEL BEARING REPACKING BASED ON MANUFACTURER’S RECOMMENDATIONS
PERIOD FRONT DISK/REAR DRUM PAD/SHOE REPLACEMENT WITH ROTOR AND CALIPER
REPLACEMENT AS NEEDED
REPLACED RUBBER BRAKE LINES TO FRONT CALIPERS
REPLACED STEEL BRAKE LINE TO REAR WHEELS USING ORIGINAL GENUINE GENERAL
MOTORS SINGLE PIECE CUSTOM BENT REPLACEMENT
REPLACED WATER PUMP
REPLACED IN-TANK HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP TWICE
PERIODIC MINOR SURFACE RUST TREATMENT & REPAIR
Condition statement:
INTERIOR CONDITION:
My “AR9 EUROPEAN CLOTH BUCKET SEATS” were in-place, intact, fully
functional with the front seats which still reclined and were moveable,
and the rear seat back which still folded and latched as they did when
they were new. The seats exhibited little or no staining, and no mold,
mildew or excessive odor. The two notable defects being the Driver’s
Side Front Seat which had been replaced with a non-color matched,
otherwise identical, replacement which had a single tear in the bottom
cushion facing the door, and the top of the folding rear seat which had
some fading at the time of my loss.
My passenger side “B34 CARPET FRONT FLOOR MAT” was fully intact with no
stains, splits, or tears at the time of my loss. My original driver’s
side “B34 CARPET FRONT FLOOR MAT” was worn out and has been disposed of
since the time of my loss.
My “B35 CARPET REAR FLOOR MATS” were both fully in-place and intact with
no stains, splits, tears, or significant fading at the time of my loss.
My “C60 CUSTOM AIR CONDITIONING” was fully functional producing no
excessive noise or odors and had been converted from R-12 to R-134a at
the time of my loss.
My multi-function turn signal stalk which included the controls for the
“CD4 CONTINUOUS CYCLE WINDSHIELD WIPERS” was fully in-tact and
functional showing some wear of the surface printing at the time of my loss.
My “D42 CARGO SECURITY SCREEN” was fully functional and intact with no
stains, splits, tears, mold, mildew, or significant fading at the time
of my loss. It remains in my possession as it was ejected from my
vehicle and damaged at the time of my loss.
My “N33 TILT STEERING WHEEL” was fully functional with no stains,
splits, cracks, or gouges in the steering wheel cover and only exhibited
normal surface wear in the cushioned covering and no rust or scratches
in the exposed metal web at the time of my loss.
All of my interior knobs, buttons, sliders, covers, plugs, handles,
caps, and lamps including my “TR9 LAMP GROUP which CONSISTS OF:
HEADLAMP-ON WARNING SYSTEM, TONE GENERATOR, and LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT &
I/P COUTESY LAMPS”, dashboard, shift position, center console storage,
foot well, and dome were in-place, intact, and fully functional with no
splits or cracks at the time of my loss.
My “UM7 AM/FM ETR STEREO RADIO SYSTEM WITH CLOCK & SEEK AND SCAN” was
fully functional and the clock was highly accurate at the time of my loss.
My dashboard was completely intact with no stains, splits, cracks,
dents, scratches, or gouges at the time of my loss.
There were no water or air leaks into the passenger compartment at the
time of my loss.
All of my gauges and indicator lights were fully functional at the time
of my loss.
My shift lever including the covering and safety button was fully intact
and functional with no splits, cracks, or gouges exhibiting only minor
surface wear at the time of my loss.
My interior carpet was fully intact and color-matched with little or no
staining or fading, and no rips, tears, excessive wear, lose or fraying
edges, mold, mildew or excessive odor with the one notable defect being
a small area (3” or less in diameter) of wear in the carpet in the
driver’s side foot well area where the carpet wraps slightly up the
inside of the fender area where my left foot rested while driving, at
the time of my loss.
My headliner had been replaced and was fully intact and color-matched
with no staining, fading, rips, loose edges, mold, mildew or excessive
odor at the time of my loss.
My multi-function turn signal stalk which includes the controls for the
“CD4 CONTINUOUS CYCLE WINDSHIELD WIPERS” was fully in-tact and
functional showing some wear of the surface printing at the time of my loss.
All of my interior passenger compartment panels were intact with no
splits, cracks, dents, tears, or stains. The interior rear plastic wheel
well covers to either side of the rear seats showed some fading and did
not extend to the rear upholstered speaker covers at the time of my loss.
My interior had suffered no water, insect, animal, or plant intrusion or
infestation at the time of my loss.
All of my seat belts and related systems were fully functional and
intact including compliance with a General Motor’s recall campaign which
placed inserts into the locking mechanism at the time of my loss.
BODY CONDITION:
Both of my doors, the hatchback, and hood were fully functional and
opened/closed smoothly and securely and required no lifting, twisting,
shaking, or other movements not intended by the manufacturer for their
proper operation at the time of my loss.
My car had never been in an accident or subjected to any force great
enough to cause its unibody structure to be deformed or racked to the
point that it required straightening at the time of my loss.
My 1985 Pontiac Firebird had never been totaled nor had it ever been a
salvaged vehicle or composite comprised of the front half of one vehicle
and the rear half of another prior to my loss.
My 1985 Pontiac Firebird had never been in an accident or other
situation that caused it to be in contact with the ground on any surface
other than its tires such as a rollover at the time of my loss.
My 1985 Pontiac Firebird had never been operated off-road in a manner
inconsistent with the manufacturer’s specifications at the time of my loss.
GLASS CONDITION:
My “A01 ALL WINDOW SOFT RAY GLASS” was fully intact with no pitting,
chips, or cracks anywhere in the windshield, side windows, or rear
hatchback at the time of my loss.
All of my operable windows were fully and smoothly operable and remained
watertight to the passenger compartment at the time of my loss.
My “C49 ELECTRIC REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER” was fully intact and functional
at the time of my loss.
All three of my mirrors; the left and right side view, and the
windshield mounted rear view mirror, were all intact and fully
functional with no chips or cracks at the time of my loss.
TIRE CONDITION:
Two of my tires were Goodyear Spectra steel belted radial size P195/75
R14 with a 60,000 mile tread life limited warranty. All four of the
tires had been purchased, professionally installed, and balanced on June
6, 1999 with the car’s mileage being 82,340 miles at that time. Two of
these tires required replacement in the interim. The left front tire had
one plug that was required to fix a puncture due to a screw which had
penetrated prior to my loss. They had remaining tread life and showed no
uneven wear at the time of my loss.
One of my replacement tires was a Goodyear Spectra steel belted radial
size P195/75R14 with a 60,000 mile tread life limited warranty. It was
purchased, professionally installed, and balanced on June 7, 2001 after
the one that it replaced had had its sidewall slashed in a vandalism
incident. It had significant remaining tread life and showed no uneven
wear at the time of my loss.
My other replacement tire was a Goodyear Viva 2 steel belted radial size
P195/75R14. It was purchased, professionally installed, and balanced on
July 6, 2004. It had significant remaining tread life and showed no
uneven wear at the time of my loss.
My space saver spare tire was the original. It had only been used twice
for short distances on the two occasions above when the two replacement
tires were required. It had significant remaining tread life and it
showed no uneven wear at the time of my loss.
None of my tires had any cracks or cuts in any of their sidewalls at the
time of my loss.
All of my tires matched in size and in make at the time of my loss in
that all were Goodyear. Three were the Goodyear Spectra model while one
was the Goodyear Viva 2 which had replaced the discontinued Goodyear
Spectra
All of my tires were size P195/75R14 which was the original size that
came from the factory on the car at the time of my loss.
EXTERIOR CONDITION:
My “11L LOWER WHITE EXTERIOR PAINT” was in fair condition with no
rust-through that exposed internal automotive systems to
abnormal/premature failure or wear, and which consisted of approximately
a dozen small coin sized areas of surface rust highlighted by repeated
applications of Loctite Extend® Rust Treatment applied in order to
prevent rust-through in these spots and a small (approximately 3” X 4”)
area of rust-through below the hinge area in the lower front portion of
the driver’s side door skin, but which did not penetrate into door
cavity. There was no significant fading, scratching, or other
discoloration of the paint. The passenger side door had been slightly
abraded along its vertical center just below the body side molding at
the time of my loss.
My “11U UPPER WHITE EXTERIOR PAINT” was in good condition with a few
coin sized areas of surface rust confined mainly to the hood,
highlighted by repeated applications of Loctite Extend® Rust Treatment
applied in order to prevent rust-through in these spots. There was no
significant fading, scratching, or other discoloration of the paint at
the time of my loss.
There was very minimal rust inside the rear fenders around the wheel
well openings on the horizontal surfaces which was not visible from
outside the wheel well and a small dent in the rear area of the
passenger side front wheel well opening at the time of my loss.
All body panel seams were straight and true with uniform gaps at the
time of my loss.
My body side molding, which was not original to the car, but had been
applied by myself at a later date, was missing in one place on the
passenger side door. All other trim was fully intact with no dents at
the time of my loss. This car had no chrome accents.
My “B57 CUSTOM EXTERIOR GROUP which CONSISTS OF: LEFT HAND REMOTE SPORT
MIRRORS, ROOF DRIP & BELT REVEAL MOLDINGS” was fully intact and
functional at the time of my loss.
My “D80 REAR DECK SPOILER” was fully intact with no rust, scratches,
dents, or abnormal wear at the time of my loss.
My “D98 VINYL ACCENT STRIPE” shows some wear, fading, and chips in spots.
My “PB4 WHEEL LOCKING PACKAGE” was installed and fully functional on all
four wheels at the time of my loss. I have the key in my possession.
My “PE1 STYLED ALUMINUM 14 INCH WHEELS” showed some slight nicks/dents
in their outermost periphery which didn’t affect their performance at
the time of my loss.
My radio’s antenna was intact with no bends at the time of my loss.
All of my exterior reflectors, lenses, and lamps were intact and fully
functional with no splits, cracks, or chips at the time of my loss.
There was no evidence of water ingress into any of the exterior lamps or
lenses at the time of my loss.
Both of my hidden headlamp assemblies were intact and fully functional
at the time of my loss.
All of my wheel, hub, and wheel nut covers were intact and showed no
signs of thread stripping (where applicable) at the time of my loss.
All of my wheel nuts were present and showed no signs of stripping of
their hexagonal outer dimensions or their interior threads at the time
of my loss.
All of my wheel mounting studs were present and showed no signs of
stripping or bending at the time of my loss.
My fuel filler cover was intact and functional at the time of my loss.
Both of my windshield wipers and blades were intact and fully functional
at the time of my loss.
MECHANICAL CONDITION:
My car had absolutely no fluid leaks including, but not limited to, the
engine lubrication system, engine cooling system, passenger compartment
heating system, hydraulic brake system, power steering system, fuel
storage and delivery systems, automatic transmission system, suspension
system (shocks & struts), windshield washer system, and rear
differential at the time of my loss.
All of my engine control, ignition, fuel delivery, engine cooling, and
air intake systems including, but not limited to the Engine Control
Module (ECM), Rotor, Distributor, Ignition Coil, Spark Plugs, Exhaust
Gas Recovery Valve (EGR), Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve (PCV),
Throttle Body, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Fuel Injectors, Mass Air Flow
Sensor (MAF), Throttle Position Sensor, Coolant Temperature Sensor, and
Oxygen Sensor were fully functional as evidenced by an absence of
hesitation, sag, stumble, loss or uneven power, rough idle, misfire, and
excessive fuel odor at the tailpipe, and with no codes set in ECM
volatile RAM as read from dashboard indicator lamp flashing with
diagnostic terminal grounded and ignition on while engine off, and the
Oxygen Sensor showed proper operation as evidenced through expected
dashboard indicator light flashing while driving vehicle with diagnostic
terminal grounded at the time of my loss.
My brake line from the master cylinder to the rear of the car had
recently been replaced with a rust free, continuous, single piece,
custom bent Genuine General Motors replacement.
My hydraulically operated brakes were fully functional and provided
great performance with a firm pedal with no pulsation, no pulling, no
noise, and a short stopping distance at the time of my loss.
My front disk brake calipers, pads, rotors, and hoses were fully
functional and had been replaced with the rotors exhibiting no scoring,
warping, or excessive wear at the time of my loss.
My rear drum brake shoes were fully functional and had been replaced
showing no scoring, warping, or excessive wear at the time of my loss.
Both, my supply and return fuel lines from the under hood rubber hoses
to the gas tank had recently been replaced with rust free, continuous,
single piece, pre-bent Genuine General Motors replacements.
My in-tank fuel pump had been replaced twice and was fully functional
and produced no excessive noise at the time of my loss.
My electric engine cooling fan was fully functional and produced no
excessive noise at the time of my loss.
My “CD4 CONTINUOUS CYCLE WINDSHIELD WIPERS” were fully functional at the
time of my loss.
My “C49 ELECTRIC REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER” was fully functional at the time
of my loss.
My weather stripping was fully intact and watertight around both doors
and the rear hatchback at the time of my loss.
All of the “dip sticks” were in place under the hood at the time of my loss.
My engine consumed less than one quart of oil per month at the time of
my loss.
My engine produced no knocking, clicking, pinging, or other noise from
either the engine or drive train at the time of my loss.
My car produced no noticeable squeaks or rattles at the time of my loss.
My vehicle produced no abnormal odors and no smoke at the time of my loss.
My car had had both front and rear pairs of anti-sway stabilizer bar end
links replaced; one pair was replaced with polyurethane bushings while
the other pair was replaced with the standard rubber bushings.
My car sat square and level at the time of my loss.
My car had a fully intact, rust-free, leak-free, and functional exhaust
system with a system replacement from the catalytic converter through
the tail pipes that had just occurred on October 19, 2005, just 3 days
prior to my loss.
My “C60 CUSTOM AIR CONDITIONING” and integrated heating system was fully
functional producing no excessive noise or odors and had been converted
from R-12 to R-134a at the time of my loss.
My power steering was fully functional with no pulling, excessive play,
or improper alignment at the time of my loss.
My car had undergone no modifications or additions from the time of its
original purchase date until my loss.
My car had enjoyed a substantial use of Genuine General Motors
replacement parts such as the alternator/generator, fuel lines, brake
lines, spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap, rotor, oil
filters, etc.
All locks and locking mechanisms were fully functional and used their
proper respective keys at the time of my loss.
Both pairs (front and rear) of pneumatic cylinders had been replaced and
were fully functional, able to support the full weight of the hood and
hatchback respectively, at the time of my loss.
All engine, transmission, and exhaust mounting brackets were intact at
the time of my loss.
My automatic transmission, drive shaft, and rear differential functioned
smoothly and flawlessly without excessive noise and vibration, with the
automatic transmission shifting at the proper shift points as specified
by the manufacturer at the time of my loss.
My suspension system was completely intact and functional with no
excessive sag or bounce at the time of my loss.
All of my rubber and polyurethane suspension shims, pads, and bushings
were intact at the time of my loss.
My “B57 CUSTOM EXTERIOR GROUP that CONSISTS OF: LEFT HAND REMOTE SPORT
MIRRORS, ROOF DRIP & BELT REVEAL MOLDINGS” components were all intact
and fully functional at the time of my loss.
All of my belts, hoses, and other rubber engine components were fully
intact, functional and leak-free (where applicable), and all external
belts, and most cooling system hoses had been replaced at the time of my
loss.
My car exhibited no excessive fuel consumption getting between 17 and 19
miles per gallon consistent with the original manufacture’s estimate of
18 miles per gallon “City” at the time of my loss.
All of my door handles both internal and external were intact and fully
functional at the time of my loss.
My interior hood release worked fine at the time of my loss.
My car had never been used commercially.
My car had never been used for towing.
My car had never been used for hauling anything in excess of the
manufacturers rated capacity either people or cargo.
My car had never been submerged in any liquid, flood, or other substance
not intended by the manufacturer.
My engine had never experienced a major or catastrophic failure and ran
smoothly and reliably producing no excessive noise, vibration, or odor
at the time of my loss.
My automatic transmission had never experienced a major or catastrophic
failure and always performed smoothly, reliably, and without excessive
noise or vibration.
My radiator had been replaced and was leak-free and corrosion free at
the time of my loss.
My engine’s coolant had never been permitted to freeze.
My engine’s freeze plugs were intact and leak free at the time of my loss.
My engine had never been operated with low or low oil, coolant, or other
fluids as directed by the manufacturer.
My vehicle had never been raced under any circumstances.
My vehicle had never been towed a greater distance than that permitted
by the manufacturer.
My vehicle had never been driven on its space saver spare tire a
distance greater than that permitted by the manufacturer.
All of my vehicle’s maintenance and repairs had been performed in a
professional manner consistent with that which the manufacturer
specified or with that which the dealer or other professional would perform.
The original manufacturer’s warranty was never violated.
I have full vehicle life-long (20 years) documentation of proper
continued periodic maintenance including, but not limited to, all of the
items discussed so far plus chassis lube, oil, and filter
change/replacement including air, oil, fuel, automatic transmission
fluid, automatic transmission filters, front wheel bearing lubrication
and replacement, proper fluid level maintenance, MAF sensor, coil,
distributor cap, rotor, spark plugs, spark plug wires, belts, and hoses.
Again, any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Rob Wolski
The Reverend Natural Light - 15 Mar 2006 19:10 GMT
I didn't read the rest of the post, but...
They are hoping you'll take the money and go away.
KBB is only a guide for dealership pricing. Find out what it'll cost
YOU to replace your car with another one like it. Don't forget all the
expenses like title and taxes. Tell the insurance company and be
prepared to explain why (ie, bring an Autotrader with listings). Be
reasonable but make it clear that you're not negotiating, you're
*telling* them how much it will cost.
They have better things to do than go to court over an '85 Firebird.
Their drunk customer could have crippled a family of five inside a new
Mercedes S500.
And, if you have to, take them to court. It's not like there is any
question who was at fault.
-rev