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Car Forum / Pontiac / Pontiac Firebird / March 200489 Bonneville
Looking for some advice, My newphew borrowed my 89' Bonneville and apperantly something went wrong with the trans. He called me and it had a trail of burnt trans fluid running from the car. Also, I guessed he tried to continue to drive the car when the trans went becase he had called me saying it had over heated on him. The motor now sounds like some kind of "clanging" sound when it runs.(I think you know what I mean.) Anyway.... my question is... is the car worth saving????? It's 89 with 134,000 on it. If so, how much would I be looking at for repairs???? If it's a 307 code Y: Time to scrap it! Sorry for the bad news, but that might be the worse engine ever produced by any car maker. Refinish King > Looking for some advice, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > If so, how much would I be looking at for repairs???? Thanks for the advice..... As I thought it woul be.... looks like it is time to "scrap it" Body is in good shape. Everything works, including the AC but as I thought it sounds like repairs would exceed the value of the car. Fortuantly, this was a "daily driver" for me and I guess it has served its use. (I bought it used in 96 for $4K) In fact, I tried to sell it last summer for $2500. Even had a buyer but his girlfriend and him broke up and that was the end of the deal. > If it's a 307 code Y: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > > If so, how much would I be looking at for repairs???? > Thanks for the advice..... As I thought it woul be.... looks like it > is time to "scrap it" Body is in good shape. Everything works, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > In fact, I tried to sell it last summer for $2500. Even had a buyer > but his girlfriend and him broke up and that was the end of the deal. Where are you located? If you're close to KC I know a buddy who needs a good Bonneville body after being sideswiped hard. He's a Bonne freak and has a 3.8 drivetrain with the supercharger from a later model awaiting another body. Usually it's better to post this type of thing in alt.autos.pontiac for future reference. Is KC Kannas City?????? If so.... I'm not too sure I'm that close to him. I'm in Nashville, TN. > > Thanks for the advice..... As I thought it woul be.... looks like it > > is time to "scrap it" Body is in good shape. Everything works, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > another body. Usually it's better to post this type of thing in > alt.autos.pontiac for future reference. > Is KC Kannas City?????? If so.... I'm not too sure I'm that close to > him. I'm in Nashville, TN. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> later model awaiting another body. Usually it's better to post this >> type of thing in alt.autos.pontiac for future reference. Nope, that would be too far to be worth it. > Looking for some advice, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > If so, how much would I be looking at for repairs???? 1989 Bonneville's where I am at most are $2,000 cars. That's if they are in top shape. The engine a 3.8 is 87-91. The transaxle (transmission) is a TH440. Around here for those you would pay anywhere from $500 to $1000 for both. As to if it is worth it, that's something you need to decide based on condition, value, cost of repairs, and your desire to keep the vehicle. Charles >Subject: Re: 89 Bonneville >From: "Charles Bendig" rarepartshunter@yahoo.com [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >condition, value, cost of repairs, and your desire to keep the vehicle. >Charles Refinish King: I've owned several 307 Olds Vin Y motors (BTW, the last Pontiac to use a vin Y motor is a 1989 Safari Wagon. The Bonneville hasn't been RWD since 1986 when it was a G body :) ), and I can tell you while they are underpowered, they are by far one of the BEST engines GM made. They can't be killed and they run like a top if you do ANY TLC to them (see my sig file). I know of several that have 200k or or better of HARD use. My former commuting partner has Elizabeth Montgomery's (that's right..lol) engine from her Caprice in his 88 Wagon. It has OVER 200k on it now and it had 135k when he installed it. I can tell you it's HARD mileage here in NYC. My 307 runs flawlessly and it's smoother than most new cars :). With that being said, note to original poster: The THM440-T4 in this vehicle is a piece of crap. Those fail very often and puke out early and this one was on borrowed time. If you look in Alldata.com, you see several bulletin titles on this tranny, it was a piss poor unit. You got your money's worth. If the body is not solid or the rest of the vehicle is so so, pitch it and get something else. My uncle offered one of these to me (it was fully loaded with a sunroof and he was the original owner) for nothing and I passed on it because I knew it was a piece of junk and that my RWD Oldsmobile would outlast it. LOL Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 26k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... '80 T/A project car... > >Subject: Re: 89 Bonneville > >From: "Charles Bendig" rarepartshunter@yahoo.com [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > was a G body :) ), and I can tell you while they are underpowered, they are by > far one of the BEST engines GM made. Agreed. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but that 89 should have a 3.8 NON DIS in it...been so damn long since I was under the hood of one.. The 3.8L when overheated, as the OP states, has a nasty habit of frying the #1, and #2 rod and crank bearings. If its knocking like the OP states, hes looking at a min of a bottom end, provided he didnt cause the rings any damage when they expanded and probably hit the ends of each other from thermal expansion...if thats happened, hes looking at a top end as well, and you can stop right there. > They can't be killed and they run like a top if you do ANY TLC to them (see my > sig file). I know of several that have 200k or or better of HARD use. My [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > got your money's worth. If the body is not solid or the rest of the vehicle is > so so, pitch it and get something else. Yup. Agreed again. The rebuild kit for one is only about $250, but its $250 that could be spent better elsewhere. GM called it a 4T60, and when one rolled in on a rollback, we knew good and well it was either rebuild, or trade out time. Few, if any I can remember went much over 100K without some issues, and it was due in part due to the factory cooler...typical radiator built in POS, and from what I can recall, lubrication issues over the clutch packs. Typical on several mods, and makes. A new TC would be in order as well, since I seem to remember broken vanes in several.... Even if he rebuilds the tranny...(not gonna happen correctly on a T60 in your backyard) he still has the issues of the overheated 3.8. I am thinking crack kit at min, at worst, a complete overhaul with a correct upper and lower rebuild. I think he can probably find something better, newer, for less than he will have in a vehicle thats going to fail again, and in short order. > My uncle offered one of these to me (it was fully loaded with a sunroof and he > was the original owner) for nothing and I passed on it because I knew it was a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... > '80 T/A project car... > > >Subject: Re: 89 Bonneville > > >From: "Charles Bendig" rarepartshunter@yahoo.com [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > > '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... > > '80 T/A project car... 3.8 FWD's went DIS in 87. Contrary to popular beliefs you can convert a older distributor block over to work in place of the DIS block. The crank trigger (CPS) is mounted on the timing cover. The balancer on some year 3.8 FWD's has the pick ups for the CPS on it. A 86 up 2.8 distributor block off will work in the distributor hole. As for the Transmission it is a TH440-T4. The same prefix as modern over drive FWD's use. I have yet to have a TH440 when rebuilt that did not need a new torque converter. Later units have problems with 3rd gear (drive) slipping. Charles You're right, It was an RWD motor, but the ones I see. Aren't so TLC'd when they get to me. Ran hot, bad cams and head gaskets. Burned valves, bad lifters, pinging no matter wnat you do to them. And the only customer with one, is an 78 Buick, I opened moutn, inserted foot! LOL Refinish King > >Subject: Re: 89 Bonneville > >From: "Charles Bendig" rarepartshunter@yahoo.com [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... > '80 T/A project car... > >Subject: Re: 89 Bonneville > >From: "Charles Bendig" rarepartshunter@yahoo.com [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... > '80 T/A project car... Olds 307's can't be killed? That's not true, any engine can be killed. Believe me, my customers can kill anything! Most GM motors with proper TLC can make the 200K mark with ease. I have a 305 with a documented 330K+ on it. Now it's ready for retirement. The last 10,000 it has started running bad. Like the cam is worn, and the oil rings are going. If your uncle offered me a clean 89 Bonneville I would take it. I would drive it till the transaxle started to get weak, then part it out. After that crush the rest. I never turn down cheep or free running driving cars that do not need a complete rebuild. Charles >Subject: Re: 89 Bonneville >From: "Charles Bendig" rarepartshunter@yahoo.com [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] >that do not need a complete rebuild. >Charles Refinish: The "LV2" 307 vin Y didn't come out till 1980, so your customer either had an Olds 350R in that Buick a 350 vin X Buick motor (which suffers the same oiling fate as the Buick 231), or a myriad of other V8s, including, according to the Buick Parts book for that year, a 400 vin Z Pontiac L78. Charles: I suppose what you say is true. But, I have seen some pretty neglected 307's running around. In fact, I own one (it was before I got it). With $500 in parts (I did all the work) I can tell you this car runs like the day it left the Fairfax, KS factory in June of 1984 when my uncle bought it. I took it for inspection the year before last and the guy had a 1998 Grand Am there for inspection. He failed three times. We loaded my car on the dyno and it passed, with flying colors even though the state tightened the limits some 40%. As for the Bonnie, it was a 1991, had been in a few bad collisions and was in fair condition. I could have saved it or flipped it, but I simply didn't need it at the time. I recently picked up a 1991 S10 Blazer that was a freebie and it's a much better choice for utility and function.. Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 26k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... '80 T/A project car... >Anyway.... my question is... is the car worth saving????? It's 89 with >134,000 on it. There's a guy over on alt.autos.pontiac that has 277,000 miles on his '91 Bonneville. You be the judge :-)  Signature_________________________________________________________________ Dennis Smith -1971 Trans Am - 455 H.O. - M21 4speed - Cameo white/blue stripe- < http://ps2page.tripod.com/my71ta/tapage.html > -1973 Trans Am - 455 - TH400 auto - Buccaneer red- -1984 Trans Am - 5.0 L - TH700R4 auto - Royal blue/silver aero- _________________________________________________________________ Don't get me wrong.... I would like to repair it but I think this is one of those sisuation where repairs would exceed the value of the car. But who knows. I'm not in any rush to do anything with the car one way or the other. > >Anyway.... my question is... is the car worth saving????? It's 89 with > >134,000 on it. > > There's a guy over on alt.autos.pontiac that has 277,000 miles on his '91 > Bonneville. You be the judge :-) > Don't get me wrong.... I would like to repair it but I think this is > one of those sisuation where repairs would exceed the value of the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> _________________________________________________________________ Don't go by Blue Book to determine the cars value. What is it worth to you? Do you enjoy driving it? Does it fill a need? If you like the car, and it's in good shape other than the drivetrain being FUBAR, AND you don't mind working on it yourself, then fix it. That way you know what you have. If you have to pay to R&R the drivetrain then yes, bux will be rolling out of your pocket faster than a sailor can hammer drinks on shore leave. Even if you are new to working on cars, if you can drive something else while you tinker and learn you will cut the repair cost by 80% easily. You mentioned no hurry and that is good. Take your time and shop around. Check out http://car-part.com/index.htm to track down your parts and compare prices. Sometimes you can get pretty good deals on engines and trannys from the rust belt states where the cars disintegrate way before the drivetrain is hardly broken in good. Hey, my daily driver is an 89 Bird I paid $300 for. The folks that owned it had let it go to sh.t and didn't think it was worth fixing. I drove it home (drove being a relative term since it shifted like sh.t and was a bitch to keep running), replaced the trans mount (manual) and the exhaust cat (blocked or nearly so) and out the back. Drove it for 6 months, replaced the clutch. Runs sweet, V6 gives good mileage, not a dent on it anywhere. Blue Book value? Don't care, wouldn't sell it. I'm still considering holding on t it and repairing it somewhere in the future. > > Don't get me wrong.... I would like to repair it but I think this is > > one of those sisuation where repairs would exceed the value of the [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > the clutch. Runs sweet, V6 gives good mileage, not a dent on it anywhere. > Blue Book value? Don't care, wouldn't sell it. >From: "FBR" replytogroup@spamsux.com >Date: 3/20/2004 3:47 PM Central Standard Time >Don't go by Blue Book to determine the cars value. What is it worth to you? >Do you enjoy driving it? Does it fill a need? If you like the car, and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >the clutch. Runs sweet, V6 gives good mileage, not a dent on it anywhere. >Blue Book value? Don't care, wouldn't sell it. I have to agree here. If you do your own work. it's easy enough to pick up and engine/tranny if the car was/is a good driver. Time is the factor. If you have the time and a place to park it until you find the parts, and a place to work on it when that happens, then I'd say hang on to it and fix it. Then you have something to lend out instead of your 'good' car, next time. F > >From: "FBR" replytogroup@spamsux.com > >Date: 3/20/2004 3:47 PM Central Standard Time [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > F Belive me when I say I am glad the Bonneville was't my 'good car'. If he had killed my Formula.... me and him would have really went around. (But on the hand that was why I loaned him the Bonneville to begin with.) |
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