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Car Forum / Pontiac / Pontiac Firebird / May 200488 Camaro - which aftermarket posi ?
Ok, screw all this sloppy spider gear BS that I've been going thru - I want to get a posi unit. (can't hardly drive the car in the rain with the wheel slip anyhow). Few questions... 1) Which one? Eaton or Auburn? (and which model) 2) Do these things require a C-clip eliminator? if not (desirable), do they come with new clips? 3) How hard is it to install/shim ? (I do have an install kit w/ shims etc) 4) And other advice, and where to buy ? Thanks > Ok, screw all this sloppy spider gear BS that I've > been going thru - I want to get a posi unit. (can't [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks might want to look into the powertrax posi. you dont hafta pull the carrier. just replace the spider gears and pin with ones in kit. c-clips are reused. http://www.powertrax.com/noslip.html > > Ok, screw all this sloppy spider gear BS that I've > > been going thru - I want to get a posi unit. (can't [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > spider gears and pin with ones in kit. c-clips > are reused. http://www.powertrax.com/noslip.html Ahh, NUTS!. This is perfect! However, I went and ordered a Auburn Posi, and its on its way. God damn it, I just can't win. This would of been perfect! I really didn't want to pull the carrier and f.ck with all them shims and sh.t. Dag nabit. So how much are these things? more, or less than the Auburn's ? And what should I expect with the Auburn? Is the Auburn for normal city driving?, or am I gonn get a bunch of clicking, grabbing, locking, etc , etc ,? The Auburn is a reliable and forgiving unit: Unless you ordered a balls to the wall unit. I've installed a bunch of Auburns, Richmond's and Richmond's. The Auburn that comes apart at the side is my favorite, no clutches, conical gear friction and was in most Z/28 and dare I say it on this news group? mustangs. Use a decent synthetic oil, you won't have to change pinion depth if you don't change gear sets, and you'll find the width on the unit is son amazingly close to stock, little or no shimming change will be required, just be patient when you check your backlash, and check it at the ring gear side for accuracy. (I hope you have access to a dial indicator?) You'll need a lot of patience if you need to reshim, but don't give up or get angry. Because the feeling you get when you drive it, and the smile you'll get of knowing you did it. Will make you feel like the king of the road! If I can be of any assistance, please don't hesitate to ask! Refinish King > > > Ok, screw all this sloppy spider gear BS that I've > > > been going thru - I want to get a posi unit. (can't [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > driving?, or am I gonn get a bunch of clicking, > grabbing, locking, etc , etc ,? > The Auburn is a reliable and forgiving unit: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > If I can be of any assistance, please don't hesitate to ask! Oh man, do I ever! (You Da man for offering!) Ok, here goes the questions! 1) Installing carrier bearings: I got a new set here. So how hard are they to install? - I don't have the Kent-Moore J-??? tool that the service manual calls for to hammer the new bearings onto the new carrier. I am told that these are like a .003 interference fit, so what is the best way to get them on the Auburn? (can I make a tool? - I do have TIG and stick welders) 2) Case spreader: Do I need one for this 7.625" ? Will I be able to pry out the old carrier Ok ? 3) Undercarrage clearance: on a 3rd gen, is there enough room with under there to get this out? 4) Installing final preload shims: 2 x .004=.008, will I be able to tap them in without mashing them ? 5) Ring gear bolts: I am told by some diff shops that "IF" there was no catastrophic failures, you can re-use old ring gear bolts, just use a string of red LockTite (and prey that you don't need to take them off again). Theroy goes, that the people writing the manuals have to cover ALL reasons for working on the diff, *including* those who have suffered catastrophic failures (which would have caused bolt stretch/fractures). 6) I need a dial indicator - any recommendations. And how do I use it on the ring gear to measure existing, and new backlash ? 7) Auburn opperation: (I ordered the high performance model, not the stump pulling "Pro Series" one.) Is it a "linear" engagement, or snap in, snap out? Will the "differentiation" be variable to some degree? And just what "does" happens in a turn? - most of my wheel spin problems *are* in a turn out of a stop sign on slight incline when its raining, and where I live here in the Northwest, thats like everyday! 8) cover plate and oil: Auburn is saying to replace oil every 7,500 miles - thats like every-other oil change! I seen one high performance web site offering a cover plate with a drain plug in it for $29. Is this a worth while endeavor? And in this new pan, doesit have a magnet cemented to it like the stock one? If I go that route, and have to move the magent, what glue do I use to re-cement it to a new cover w/ plug? Oil: Synthetic "what" - 70W-90, straight 90?, what? And what brand? And what of the "friction modifier" juice? (AKA slip additive) - does it mix with the synthetic, or is there synthetic limited slip additive? 10) last, but not least: (to liven things up a bit) What the hell does this gear lube stink like this ? So there you go, - you offered to help answer questions. I'm a little apprenhsive about this (can you tell ?) I'm pretty well versed with the tools (and welders), and rebuilt many engines, and automatic tranny's, just never set up a differential carrier like this, "expecially" on my baby here. But I can tell you, I'd be forever in your debt for you help and hand-holding while I get thru this. Thanks man ! > Refinish King > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > driving?, or am I gonn get a bunch of clicking, > > grabbing, locking, etc , etc ,? Inline: > > The Auburn is a reliable and forgiving unit: > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > fit, so what is the best way to get them on the Auburn? > (can I make a tool? - I do have TIG and stick welders) Use a 1/2" impact socket, with the diameter smaller than the cage og=f the bearing, but biced enouigh to get close to installing the bearing as far down on the bearing nub as possible. (Hopefully, while you have the other side on a block of wood. Preferably Oak( Then use a large punch and hammer to finish driving the inner race home. > 2) Case spreader: Do I need one for this 7.625" ? > Will I be able to pry out the old carrier Ok ? It wouldn't hurt to make one. But some 1.5X1.5" square steel stock, preferrably cold rolled. 1.5 feet long each, drill two holes centerred for the two holes for the side bolts on the cover, and get grade 8 bolte that are 5/16"X20 23//4" long, unless metric. Drill holes 3/4" 1.5" in from each end of the stock, and buy 2-2 foot sections of 3/4" threaded rod, and four nuts. (All you need to do is spread the case about .008 to .010, otherwise you'll crack it!) > 3) Undercarrage clearance: on a 3rd gen, is there > enough room with under there to get this out? Should not be a problem, just put your jack stands under the rear rails, and if it is a bit of a problem, disconnect the shocks! > 4) Installing final preload shims: 2 x .004=.008, > will I be able to tap them in without mashing them ? That's what the case spreader is for! > 5) Ring gear bolts: I am told by some diff shops > that "IF" there was no catastrophic failures, you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (which would have caused bolt stretch/fractures). >You could, but if your buying an installation kit, for the few dollars. Would you like to gamble a bolt failure on the highway? ($15.00 is cheap insurance on keeping your a.s out of a coffin!) > 6) I need a dial indicator - any recommendations. > And how do I use it on the ring gear to measure > existing, and new backlash ? www.grizzlyindustrial.com Mount the magnetic base on the housing, zero the indicator stem on the heel of one of the ring gear teeth, then move the ring gear till you hear/feel it contact the pinion, without turning the poinion at all. (That will be your backlash) > 7) Auburn opperation: (I ordered the high performance > model, not the stump pulling "Pro Series" one.) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > stop sign on slight incline when its raining, and > where I live here in the Northwest, thats like everyday! I would believe that: It would break friction as you are entering the turn part way, and you will feel it, so no nailing it around the turns! Otherwise, the a.s will wind up in front of you! > 8) cover plate and oil: Auburn is saying to replace > oil every 7,500 miles - thats like every-other oil [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > juice? (AKA slip additive) - does it mix with the synthetic, > or is there synthetic limited slip additive? The magnet holds it self in place on the cover magnetically. The I would go with the 70-90, for the heat charistics of the multi grade, because it's a street car. The friction modifier can be either, Chevrolet, Ford oir Royal Purple, atleast I think that's the brand. > 10) last, but not least: (to liven things up a bit) > What the hell does this gear lube stink like this ? The stock/fossil sh.t, I think the petrochemical engineers just made it smell like that, to curs us. So we'd smell like grease monkies when ever we did a rear or a tranny. Just a cruel joke by college educated a.sholes who think they're better than us. (Fucksticks!) Washing a few times never helps, sometimes, if it's old, it might take days to get rid of the stank! > So there you go, - you offered to help answer questions. > I'm a little apprenhsive about this (can you tell ?) I'm [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks man ! No problem! If you did automatic trannies, this should be like a walk through the park, Just shout if you need anything else! Refinish King > > Refinish King > > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > > driving?, or am I gonn get a bunch of clicking, > > > grabbing, locking, etc , etc ,? > Inline: > > 4) Installing final preload shims: 2 x .004=.008, > > will I be able to tap them in without mashing them ? > That's what the case spreader is for! sh.t, so this is mandatory to spread the case to get the preload shims in ? If I build a case spreader, will it spring back, and what is the gaurantee that it will spring back EXACTALLY .008? I thought these were used to get the diff "out", not open it up for preload shims. Seems odd that you'd find the zero-clearance fit with a relaxed case, then spread to get .008 in, and hope that it will spring back exactally .008 > > 5) Ring gear bolts: I am told by some diff shops > > that "IF" there was no catastrophic failures, you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > those who have suffered catastrophic failures > > (which would have caused bolt stretch/fractures). > >You could, but if your buying an installation kit, for the few dollars. Installantion kit didn't come with ring gear bolts. > Would you like to gamble a bolt failure on the highway? ($15.00 is cheap > insurance on keeping your a.s out of a coffin!) Got a favorite place I can get these from? (URL?) > I would believe that: It would break friction as you are entering the turn > part way, and you will feel it, so no nailing it around the turns! > Otherwise, the a.s will wind up in front of you! Damn. Not planing on "nailing" it, but I'd like to know that I got "some" consistant Posi action throughout the duration of the turn - otherwise, what good is it really? > If you did automatic trannies, this should be like a walk through the park, Yeah, but remember, working on Auto's *are* a walk in a part - you ain't hammering on bearings with .003 interference fits, "stretching" large steel housings to get sh.t to fit, heating up ring gears to get them to mount on the differential and all of that. Auto's are just a lot of snap rings, and compressing a clutch pack down to get yet another snap ring on, lots of O-rings, and lotts of little piece-parts to remember where they went, and so pretty easy. Its just that case spreading, carrier bearrings deal that I fear. But full report when I dive in (this weekend) > Just shout if you need anything else! > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > > > driving?, or am I gonn get a bunch of clicking, > > > > grabbing, locking, etc , etc ,? >sh.t, so this is mandatory to spread the case >to get the preload shims in ? You will NOT need a case spreader with the 7.5. The shims tap in easy enough with a drift, punch, or even a small hammer. I haven't looked in that section of the GM service manual in a while but I think the case spreader is only used on the 9.5 gear and larger. Most techs work on those without the spreader. But most techs don't put in aftermarket differentials: Especially ones that disassemble at the side, which require a preload to help keep the stress off of the differential case assembly bolts. Respectfully submitted, Refinish King > >sh.t, so this is mandatory to spread the case > >to get the preload shims in ? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > think the case spreader is only used on the 9.5 gear and larger. Most techs > work on those without the spreader. > >sh.t, so this is mandatory to spread the case > >to get the preload shims in ? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > think the case spreader is only used on the 9.5 gear and larger. Most techs > work on those without the spreader. You're right - it was a walk in the park actually. And its a 7.625 actually (with a 26-spline). > > If you did automatic trannies, this should be like a walk through the > park, > Yeah, but remember, working on Auto's *are* > a walk in a part - you ain't hammering on bearings [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Its just that case spreading, carrier bearrings deal > that I fear. > But full report when I dive in (this weekend) I've done auto boxes but never a diff/posi so I would be interested to hear about how it goes. Any chance of some pics while you do the job ??  SignatureT.C. terminal_crazy@sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk Lancashire England Yeah! Some pics of the local ho tooting you while you're installing the posi unit would be a laugh too! LOL Refinish King > > > If you did automatic trannies, this should be like a walk through the > > park, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I've done auto boxes but never a diff/posi so I would be interested to > hear about how it goes. Any chance of some pics while you do the job ?? > > > If you did automatic trannies, this should be like a walk through the > > park, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I've done auto boxes but never a diff/posi so I would be interested to > hear about how it goes. Any chance of some pics while you do the job ?? Yeah, I got some picks, but mostly of dissassembly. I will be a link to them here shortly. If you stretch the case .008: It will go back .008, believe me! It might want to go back more. So just make sure to try to stay away from going more than .010, which might tend to crack the case. I've spread them up to .014 for race applications, but these were track only cars, and the people were not objectionable to taking a chance, and you don't need that much preload on a street car. (you'd fry bearings weekly) Have you ever done a Doug Nash, or a Hemi box, maybe a Ford top Loader? Then you'd be beating on things much scarier with performance gear sets! Good luck! Refinish King > > Inline: > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > > > > > driving?, or am I gonn get a bunch of clicking, > > > > > grabbing, locking, etc , etc ,? use a for 9" rear-end their much better -- http://crazyedmonton.no-ip.com ---- I am the darkest creation of god He didn't mention he was building a killer? He just wanted to stop the clunking! Refinish King > use a for 9" rear-end > their much better [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ---- > I am the darkest creation of god > He didn't mention he was building a killer? > > He just wanted to stop the clunking! Exactally!. And now I went and ordered a Auburn Posi before I knew about this PowerTrax thing. I'm pissed - I really didn't want to pull the carrier either. Balls. And I can't really send the Auburn back either, the guy would kill me. I already ordered a spider gear kit for the stock open diff, and the guy is sending a return tag for me to send it back when I get them, and is now drop shipping the Auburn unit to me. If I call him now and tell him to send me a return tag for *that* and to send me a PowerTrax unit instead, he surely is gonna get miffed and think I'm f.cking with him. Dag nabit. So I guess I'll try my hand at this stuffing of .004 worth of shims in each side for the preload, and see what the hell happens with the Auburn. I just don't want to trade the old clunking noise for some new clicking/grabbing/locking of the new Auburn (if the Auburn does this). I really wanted something friction-based for smooth every day city/highway driving. And I want to get this behind me so I can drive the damn thing. Guess I should have spent more time researching it all. But then again, I didn't know what the probem was until I opened it up either. Oh well. > Refinish King > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > ---- > > I am the darkest creation of god You did well getting the Auburn. It is not hard to install. Just make sure to torque the ring gear and side caps (don't mix the caps left to right) and just make sure to get the backlash and side bearing preload correct. The Eaton unit is also very good. I don't have direct experience with the power trax but I've heard they are VERY noisey. Clicety, clackety, clack! So I hear when the Jeeps pass by with them! There are two four wheel drive shops in town, and they seem to install a lot of them, so I hear them when the Jeepsters make the turn at my intersection at 12:00AM, when I try to sleep. My house is a few blocks away from lovers (Cornhole) Lane. Refinish King > You did well getting the Auburn. It is not hard to install. Just make sure to > torque the ring gear and side caps (don't mix the caps left to right) and just [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I don't have direct experience with the power trax but I've heard they are VERY > noisey. > Clicety, clackety, clack! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > at 12:00AM, when I try to sleep. My house is a few blocks away from lovers > (Cornhole) Lane. Yer shittin? Really? Whew, well, this makes me feel better about not going that route then. Remember, I got into this whole thing *because* of noise in the first place, so my goal is "less" noise, and "less" clunking (although I'm learning that I'm about to get a little new clunk as this thing kicks in). > Refinish King > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > VERY > > noisey. > > Clicety, clackety, clack! > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > at 12:00AM, when I try to sleep. My house is a few blocks away from lovers > > (Cornhole) Lane. Yeah, the original LockRight's click alot around corners unless you use 90W140. The PowerTrax supposedly has done away with the noise and is smooth. These pricks wake me up! I sleep like a rock! LOL Refinish King PS I hate to say who one of the shops who's installing that sh.t is too. One is still a friend though! Thank God! But it will suffice to say, you can pick your a.s, you can pick your nose, thank goodness I didn't pick this as my almost family! > > > Clicety, clackety, clack! > > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > 90W140. > The PowerTrax supposedly has done away with the noise and is smooth. If you're getting the Auburn unit I think you are: There aren't any clutches in it, it's a conical friction type, that works better than any clutched unit on the market. So much so that, you should make it a conscious decision to get a good synthetic lubricant before you dream of assembling this differential. Sincerely, Refinish King > > He didn't mention he was building a killer? > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > ---- > > > I am the darkest creation of god >Subject: Re: 88 Camaro - which aftermarket posi ? >From: "S.S.I.N." askme@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >---- >I am the darkest creation of god Why ruin a good car with lackluster parts? If I wanted a Ford, I would have bought one (and been towing it the whole way home...lol). A properly built GM differential is just as good in most applications as a Ford unit. Keep your vehicle all GM. There's a good reason why they are still #1. Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 26k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... '80 T/A project car... they are way tougher have more parts available. with a 9" if by some remote chance you screw something up everything can be changed very easily. -- http://crazyedmonton.no-ip.com ---- I am the darkest creation of god But he's not talking about: Running 10x31" slicks, with a 550HP at 475FT/LBS of torque motor? He just wanted to get the clunk out, if it were a drag car, I would agree, or a Dana 70, maybe even an 80. but he wants to fix his differential and drive without the clunks, squeaks and handling difficulties of an adapted 9" in an everyday driver Camaro. So please don't take this as a flame, because I agree in a performance venue, a 9" is great, fast to make gear changes at the track, Dana doesn't offer that. and is stronger than a Dana 60. But, he's talking about putting in an Auburn, how can he go wrong on an every day driver? Respectfully submitted, Refinish King > they are way tougher have more parts available. with a 9" if by some remote > chance you screw something up everything can be changed very easily. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ---- > I am the darkest creation of god > But he's not talking about: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > venue, a 9" is great, fast to make gear changes at the track, Dana doesn't > offer that. and is stronger than a Dana 60. > But, he's talking about putting > in an Auburn, how can he go wrong on an every day driver? Correct, this will be an every-day car, and the sole reason for even being in this situation was the clunking (which turned out to be *very* sloppy spider/side gears) PS: I only put 3K miles on this car in the last NINE years, and mainly because of this clunking, and drivetrain wrap up & slop. Car basically sat in a heated garage for 9 years. Now I'm in a position to want to get it fixed, and enjoyable to drive again. I made a list of all the things that bothered me about this car, and was keeping me from driving it every day, and this was the main one. Clutch (chatter/grab) was second, but last months new Centerforce Gold fixed all of that. After this I will go after the "notch" in the TBI throttle plate shaft. (the first 1/4 inch into the accelerator pedal, you feel a "notch", and the RPM's jump a bit - real pet peave.) Buts thats all next month, or when I get done with this, or if someone knows the fix for this while I'm waiting for my Auburn to arrive. > Respectfully submitted, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ---- > > I am the darkest creation of god thanks for the no disrespect. I guess it would come down to cost. what did you pay for your unit mr. wizzard? when I was driving my 81 as a daily driver I still preferred the 9" simply because of the strength and ease things could be changed. if it made noise you can pull the pumpkin and bring the full set of gears onto a work bench and adjust it then put it back in. you could even keep an extra pumpkin on hand. one with racing gears and one with highway gears for those long trips. but seeing how little he drives it .....cost is the factor. -- http://crazyedmonton.no-ip.com ---- I am the darkest creation of god > But he's not talking about: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > ---- > > I am the darkest creation of god > thanks for the no disrespect. > > I guess it would come down to cost. > what did you pay for your unit mr. wizzard? I want to say like $375-$380? And I realize that I may have paid a few dollars more than the cheapest place out there, but the place I got it from has been *ultra* helpfull with E-mail and phone support, and special shipping/return/upgrade arrangements, and so I find value in that. > but seeing how little he drives it .....cost is the factor. True (in a way). One of the goals in this all is "TO" get it driven more. I want to eliminate all of the things that made me "not" like driving it, and to start using it, and drriving it a lot. The car ain't probably worth anything on the open market, even as clean and pristine as it is, so I figure I might as well use it all up and get some enjoyment out of it. Another side goal of this project is to try to convert it (suspension wise) to Z-28, (or even an Iroc). So I'm researching the difference between a straight 88 Camaro, and a Z-28 (or Iroc) Camaro, and what it would take to get it to handle like one. Far as I can tell, its mainly the sway bars. But I also have to research if the steering box, and steering ratio is the same. Also researching of a leather Z-28 steering wheel will be a straight swap out of the ugly stock wheel. So yeah, yer right, a 9-inch is way over kill at this point. But its still good information anyways - you never know, way down the road, when the car is all used up as a "pretty everyday car, I may want to git it all and put in a 282 stroker, and make a strip, and "semi" street car out of it. > -- > http://crazyedmonton.no-ip.com [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > > ---- > > > I am the darkest creation of god > >Subject: Re: 88 Camaro - which aftermarket posi ? > >From: "S.S.I.N." askme@hotmail.com > >Date: 5/17/2004 8:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time > >Message-id: <D2dqc.487266$Pk3.187178@pd7tw1no> > '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig Hey, how about some pics of this baby? You could install a complete 9 bolt rear or a 4th gen rear (if you don't mind the tires sticking out a little). Both will bolt right in. I picked up a 9 bolt for 200 complete disc to disc. >> >Subject: Re: 88 Camaro - which aftermarket posi ? >> >From: "S.S.I.N." askme@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Hey, how about some pics of this baby? > You could install a complete 9 bolt rear or a 4th gen rear (if you > don't mind the tires sticking out a little). Both will bolt right in. > I picked up a 9 bolt for 200 complete disc to disc. Really? Well, this is a 3rd gen, so wonder how that would fair with those torque rail mounting bolts on the top of the rear. > >> >Subject: Re: 88 Camaro - which aftermarket posi ? > >> >From: "S.S.I.N." askme@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > >Hey, how about some pics of this baby? 4th gen and 3rd gen rear suspensions are interchangable. The only major difference with the physical appearance of the rear is that it is wider. The 4th gens also use a torque are. Search at thirdgen.org and you will see that many have done this swap. The rear that I picked up was available because the guy put a 4th gen rear in his 88 camaro. >Really? Well, this is a 3rd gen, so wonder how that would > You could install a complete 9 bolt rear or a 4th gen rear (if you > don't mind the tires sticking out a little). Both will bolt right in. > I picked up a 9 bolt for 200 complete disc to disc. hey, if ya know of a 9" for a 69 for $200. i'm there! lol but a 9 bolt, hmm... How about it Joe? I had a 79 with a 403 olds and a Turbo 400, what a monster with a posi. Plus, it went through snow like a 4X4. I miss that car, damn divorces ruin everything! I also had a 67 in my youth, that had the 6cyl, with the rubber timing belt, when the cam seized in the head. BBC injection and tens all day at Englishtown. LOL Refinish King > > >Subject: Re: 88 Camaro - which aftermarket posi ? > > >From: "S.S.I.N." askme@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Hey, how about some pics of this baby? >Subject: Re: 88 Camaro - which aftermarket posi ? >From: "Refinish King" noneofyourbusiness@mindyourbusiness.com [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> Hey, how about some pics of this baby? You changed the tranny then, the original was a THM350. I don't buy 403 cars---too common and I don't like Oldsmobile power in a Pontiac. If it's got an arrow head and I own it, it's got the heart of an Indian. As for photos, the car is featured in "The History of the Firebird" by Marc Cranswick which you can find at Barnes and Noble. My car is on page 81 and 87. No, I don't get royalties. LOL. Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 26k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... '80 T/A project car... >Subject: Re: 88 Camaro - which aftermarket posi ? >From: "Mr Wizzard" wiz@muffy-mail.com [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Hey, how about some pics of this baby? "The History of the Firebird" by Marc Cranswick, pages 81 and 87 :). Browse it at Barnes and Noble (no, I don't get royalties. LOL) Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 26k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... '80 T/A project car... Undisputed and agreed with 100%! I like the part of towing home the F.O.R.D. after buying it! LOFL! You made my night! Thanks for the giggles! Refinish King > >Subject: Re: 88 Camaro - which aftermarket posi ? > >From: "S.S.I.N." askme@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... > '80 T/A project car... > use a for 9" rear-end > their much better "for" ? You mean "Ford" ?? And how exactally would I get that Ford rear to fit in my Camaro with all the special flanges, torgue rod brackets and sh.t that is on a 3rd gen Camaro rear ? I mean, I'm a pretty good welder and all, just wondering where I'd get all the brackets/flanges to weld on to this Ford diff. hehe.. > -- > http://crazyedmonton.no-ip.com > > ---- > I am the darkest creation of god > > use a for 9" rear-end > > their much better [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > where I'd get all the brackets/flanges to weld > on to this Ford diff. hehe.. There are companies that make bolt in 9 inch ford rear ends for F-bodies. Im not really that impressed with ford 9 inch rear ends. Unless every single part in them is aftermarket, with aftermarket axle tubes and center section. Charles > > > use a for 9" rear-end > > > their much better [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > center section. > Charles Ah, I see. However, what would this really buy me at this point? Remember, this is an 1988 'maro w/ a 305, so until I get to where I'm ready to put in a 350, or 383 stroker, the stock rear shouldn't be a problem, right? (and like I said, I "do" have this Aubrun unit on its way). Oh, which reminds me, anyone know if there will be enough clearance to be able to pull the carrier out with the rear in the car? - I seem to recall thats its pretty close bedind the pumpkin (gas tank, support rail?) All I did on that body style came right out! I'm an old fart, and did quite a few of that body style! LOL Refinish King > > > > use a for 9" rear-end > > > > their much better [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > car? - I seem to recall thats its pretty close > bedind the pumpkin (gas tank, support rail?) > > > > use a for 9" rear-end > > > > their much better [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > car? - I seem to recall thats its pretty close > bedind the pumpkin (gas tank, support rail?) Actually under 400 to 500 FT. LBS. of Torque you aught to be fine with the stock rear end housing. You can Upgrade to Moser Axles, Richmond Gears, and after market barrings. Moser make both a Bolt in Ford 9 Inch, and a Chevy 12 Bolt for yor car. TRhe Ford rear end is less expensive, maybe around $900 to $1000, the Chevy rear end is around $1,700 to $2000 or so. In next years parts budget is a Moser 12 bolt for my 85 Trans Am, going with 4.88 richmond gears I already have. Charles Agreed if for competition! Because everything is fabricated. But then again so are the aftermarkets, just not as crappily as the OEM mass produced units. Refinish King > > > use a for 9" rear-end > > > their much better [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > center section. > Charles if you check the local performance shops they can find 9" rear ends with all the work already done. they get sold at swap meets. and in the local bargain finders. -- http://crazyedmonton.no-ip.com ---- I am the darkest creation of god www.autoweld.com www.markwilliams.com www.currie.com To name a few! I hope this helps, but your car will handle like absolute sh.t! Sincerely, Refinish King > > use a for 9" rear-end > > their much better [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > ---- > > I am the darkest creation of god > www.autoweld.com > www.markwilliams.com > www.currie.com Only the 2nd (Mark Williams) link works. (which is a way cool site too) I'll have to check the favorites on my other computer? Autoweld is in Danville, Pa. Really nice people and lots of experience, they actually make Moroso's and many other people's ladder bars and suspension parts. Refinish King > > www.autoweld.com > > www.markwilliams.com > > www.currie.com > > Only the 2nd (Mark Williams) link works. > (which is a way cool site too) > use a for 9" rear-end > their much better I think the After-Market bolt in 12 bolt rear ends are the way to go. Especially for a street driven F-body. Charles All a 12 bolt was a GM designed Spicer: Now Dana bought out Spicer and added all the GM improvements. Why do you think Mopar needed 8.5, 8.75 and F.O.R.D. needed 8.5, 8.75 and 9"? They certainly didn't make the HP that GM's were making, not even what the Buick Stage 4 was making. So that's another option you gave that no one else mentioned. Thanks Charles! Refinish King > > use a for 9" rear-end > > their much better > > I think the After-Market bolt in 12 bolt rear ends are the way to go. > Especially for a street driven F-body. > Charles > All a 12 bolt was a GM designed Spicer: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Refinish King I have been looking in to the rear ends availible for 3rd & 4th gens for a while. I have a customer who has a Paxton Centerfuge type blower on a 1995 Camaro. He has already had an axle issue. Im trying to convince him to get the Moser 12 bolt unit. I even offered to install it for a mear $300. Charles The Moser is a Spicer: With the Auburn and the Moser axles and C-Clip eliminator kit. Basically bulletproof for that application, and will handle much better than a 9", because of the separate center section and tube design. Refinish King > > All a 12 bolt was a GM designed Spicer: > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > get the Moser 12 bolt unit. I even offered to install it for a mear $300. > Charles >Ok, screw all this sloppy spider gear BS that I've >been going thru - I want to get a posi unit. (can't [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >4) And other advice, and where to buy ? I know you already have bought a diff and all that, but I wondered why no one mentioned the Torsen units that are now available for the 10 bolt rearends. The last couple of years f-bodies were still being made, they came from the factory with them; SLP would take off the factory ones, replacing them with a heavier duty Torsen; they would sell the takeoffs for $100 and the heavyduty ones for $300. Also, why do some of the replies say the auburns are clutchless; they don't have clutch-packs per se, but the diff action is clutch/friction, nonetheless. It is kind of cool how it uses the beveling of the spider gears to tighten the clutch-cones as the power increases! --Ken "factory Auburns suck, but the 'pro' ones are OK" Dye SignatureKen R. Dye '67 Bonneville ragtop "Juan": suncar Chicago, Illinois '01 Z28 ragtop "???": funcar www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8746 '82 Chevy Z28 "Jay": racecar dye1146 at comcast dot net '78 454 ? ton Suburban "Brian": towtruck > >Ok, screw all this sloppy spider gear BS that I've > >been going thru - I want to get a posi unit. (can't [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > clutchless; they don't have clutch-packs per se, but > the diff action is clutch/friction, nonetheless. It > is kind of cool how it uses the beveling of the spider > gears to tighten the clutch-cones as the power increases! Hey, can you explain this further to me? I spent some time studying this unit, and looking inside of it (the best I can see), and couldn't figure out how it works. It appeared to me that the plates that the springs press against ride right up against the edged of the side gears (which looks like it would cause a lot of grinding action.) Also, I saw these pad things that looked like that refridgerator magent material up between the case and the outside of the cones, and was wondering if they were friction clutches, or anchoring pads. I'd love to understand how this unit works. I drove it some more today, and trying to get a feel for how it works. One thinf that did concern me though... when pulling out from a red light, I felt this big "slip" as if I hit a bananna peel or something. The thing was, I was pulling out straight - no curves or turns. I wrote it off because this was like in the first 10 miles, and I really hadn't had enough time with it to get the feel for it yet, and it might have even been something in the street. > --Ken "factory Auburns suck, but the 'pro' ones are OK" Dye >> Also, why do some of the replies say the auburns are >> clutchless; they don't have clutch-packs per se, but [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >the edged of the side gears (which looks >like it would cause a lot of grinding action.) I googled this to get a picture w/my explanation and found a couple of cool, apropos links: http://www.angelfire.com/my/fastcar/diffey.html (general diff FAQ) http://www.auburngear.com/aftermarket/products/differentials/ The second, auburngear.com link has a great cutaway picture as well as a textual explanation that is better than what I was going to post. http://www.auburngear.com/aftermarket/drex/ I didn't know about this, $85 for a rebuild with mostly new parts sounds like a good deal! --Ken SignatureKen R. Dye '67 Bonneville ragtop "Juan": suncar Chicago, Illinois '01 Z28 ragtop "???": funcar www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8746 '82 Chevy Z28 "Jay": racecar dye1146 at comcast dot net '78 454 ? ton Suburban "Brian": towtruck > >> Also, why do some of the replies say the auburns are > >> clutchless; they don't have clutch-packs per se, but [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > I didn't know about this, $85 for a rebuild with > mostly new parts sounds like a good deal! 'preciate all the info, however, and from the first link, it doesn't gel. I read this many times, and don't understant it (or by it the way its described) : Ahh yes Positraction, most commonly referred to as the Slip-Plate Style Limited Slip Differential by engineers of Eaton, who actually designed the thing in the mid 20th century for muscle cars of the era. This is essentially an open differential, with a set of clutch plates hooked to some springs. These springs have a set amount of force which they can apply to the clutch-plates, helping to transfer torque. Take the mud puddle story above for example, with an Auburn or Eaton Slip-Plate style differential, as one wheel slips and spins up the differential now will start pressing together two Kevlar or steel plates together, creating friction, and hopefully moving the car right out of the hole - sounds good doesn't it? Its a very simple device, but it too has its downfalls. When one wheel slips, and it must slip for this to work, the springs slap the plates together and begin to transfer torque to the other side of the car... Depending on the differential this could be anywhere from 5% to 20% of your total torque capacity - which is luckily enough to get you out of that mud puddle, but will still get a heck of a lot of mud on your car as that other wheel keeps spinning up! > --Ken |
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