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Car Forum / Pontiac / Pontiac Cars / December 2005

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GM V6 Engine Warning - True Sad Story (Long)

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DL - 08 Aug 2003 16:33 GMT
Lesson Learned :   Check engine for coolant leak if you own a 1996-2003 GM
vehicle with either a 3.1L or 3.4L V6 engine.  Your engine may self-destruct
without warning!!!

I have a 1997 Venture with a dead 3.4L V6 engine (37,000 mi).  Two weeks
ago, the engine abruptly died while vehicle is running.  Prior to that,
there was no sign that anything was wrong.  No engine overheat, check engine
light, fluid on the ground etc., the only incidence was a lit "low coolant
light" and a re-fill with Dex-Cool.  After a tow to the dealer, I was
informed that I would need a new engine installed for $5200.  The problem
was that coolant had leaked into the engine via the intake manifold gasket,
which seized up the bearings causing the camshaft to break.  I immediately
contacted GM Customer Assistance, thinking that the mileage is too low to
have required engine replacement and coolant has started leaking long before
the warranty end.  After pleading for help and leaving many messages on
un-returned phone calls, I was told a week later that GM CANNOT render any
help (even though the 4 yr/50000 mi warranty expired out of time but not of
mileage).   The only and FINAL "help" came from the dealer dropping the
price to $4500.

I shopped around, talking to local repair shops and did some research.   One
repair shop told me that they did 2-3 vehicles a week with this coolant
problem.  Most had intake manifold replaced for hundreds of dollars, but
quite a few had engine blow-ups just like me.   If you look up this web site
(http://www.gmintakeleak.com) and this (http://www.gm-v6lemons.com), you
will see the extent of the problem and not be surprised.  This problem is
wide spread for all GM cars and vans from 1996 to 2003 with the 3.1L or 3.4L
engine.  The GM  Technical Service Bulletin # 03-06-01-010
(http://152.122.48.12/prepos/files/Artemis/Public/TSBs/2003/SB-10001282-8175
.pdf) lists the vehicles affected.   Because of the problem, currently 3640
GM customers have signed a petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/GMcnsmrs/petition.html ) to recall these
engines, and the number of signiture is growing on an average of 10 a day.
BUT, still GM is in DENIAL.

While shopping around, I find that I can buy a brand new GM Goodwrench
engine from GMPP for $2000 and have it installed for about $1100.  So I
think the GM dealer still makes a handsome profit with its last offer.
Their priority was apparent when they refused to release the vehicle unless
I pay them $45 for the work they did: say maybe 10 minutes of labor to check
compression in two cylinders?  They said they did me a favor by not charging
$90.

Now the Venture is sitting in a repair shop waiting for a used engine to be
put in (for $2900).  It will come with a 1 yr. warranty.  I am keeping my
fingers crossed for the used engine to work.  I will get the dead engine
back for autopsy and future claim against GM.
Another GM car I had, a Grand Am with the 3.1L engine (36,000 mi) had the
intake manifold gasket replaced by dealer a few months ago under warranty
(surprise !!, surprise !!!  the "low coolant light" turned on this one too).
Now that I've learned how this engine can self-destruct without notice, I
have quickly traded-in the Grand Am for another vehicle.  Just imagine being
caught with sudden engine failure on a busy freeway scares the hell out of
me.  I have owned exclusively GM vehicles in my household for at least the
past 25 years.  So with the one of my three GM cars now gone for good (you
didn't expect me to replace my Grand Am with another GM car did you? the
other cars will soon follow), a perfect example in the making of how GM is
losing market share.

Hopefully, GM will one day WAKE UP and start taking care of its customers.
You have to question the wisdom of a company when it is willing to give
$4000 incentive to sell a vehicle but unwilling to spend a single penny to
retain a faithful customer. Furthermore, given the extent of the problem,
any responsible company would have recalled these engines already

TRUE story but SAD to see a great company seeking its own destruction.

- Please contact me at artsyabc@angelfire.com  for any questions or
comments (remove abc from name for real email address)
Bonnevilles R Kewl - 08 Aug 2003 18:16 GMT
I looked at this website and the only thing I can say is if these people
would learn to pop their hoods and check their coolent levels they would
have noticed a coolent loss and could of prevented most if not all the
damage that had occurred to their engines by having this taken care of.
I mean if your bottle is low or becoming low over a few miles and theres
nothing on the ground that should tell you something! I guess these
vehicles didnt have idiot lights on the dash for low coolent.

> Lesson Learned :   Check engine for coolant leak if you own a 1996-2003 GM
> vehicle with either a 3.1L or 3.4L V6 engine.  Your engine may self-destruct
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> put in (for $2900).  It will come with a 1 yr. warranty.  I am keeping my
> fingers crossed for the used engine to work.  I will get the dead engine
DL - 08 Aug 2003 18:34 GMT
By the time you notice a loss of coolant, the intake manifold gasket has
already broken.  Gasket replacement typically costs $700 or more at GM
dealers.

> I looked at this website and the only thing I can say is if these people
> would learn to pop their hoods and check their coolent levels they would
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> > wide spread for all GM cars and vans from 1996 to 2003 with the 3.1L or 3.4L
> > engine.  The GM  Technical Service Bulletin # 03-06-01-010

(http://152.122.48.12/prepos/files/Artemis/Public/TSBs/2003/SB-10001282-8175
> > .pdf) lists the vehicles affected.   Because of the problem, currently 3640
> > GM customers have signed a petition
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> > put in (for $2900).  It will come with a 1 yr. warranty.  I am keeping my
> > fingers crossed for the used engine to work.  I will get the dead engine
DL - 08 Aug 2003 18:53 GMT
Longer version of my reply

By the time you notice a loss of coolant, the intake manifold gasket has
already broken.  After that, no amount of coolant you add can fix this
problem.  Coolant will enter the engine until it breaks.  You can replace
the broken gasket for about $700, but it will fail again.   In fact, I
stopped at the nearest store to top off the coolant as soon as the low
coolant light turned on.  That did not help.  GM owner manual tells you to
take the vehicle to service if you have to add coolant more than 4 times a
year.
The intend of this post is to help people be aware of this problem.  No ill
will against GM.  Only GM can fix this engine for good and it should.

> By the time you notice a loss of coolant, the intake manifold gasket has
> already broken.  Gasket replacement typically costs $700 or more at GM
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> 3.4L
> > > engine.  The GM  Technical Service Bulletin # 03-06-01-010

(http://152.122.48.12/prepos/files/Artemis/Public/TSBs/2003/SB-10001282-8175
> > > .pdf) lists the vehicles affected.   Because of the problem, currently
> 3640
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> my
> > > fingers crossed for the used engine to work.  I will get the dead engine
kato - 08 Aug 2003 19:18 GMT
> I looked at this website and the only thing I can say is if these people
> would learn to pop their hoods and check their coolent levels they would
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> nothing on the ground that should tell you something! I guess these
> vehicles didnt have idiot lights on the dash for low coolent.

By the time you notice the level is low and continues to loose antifreeze,
the damage for the most part is already done. I had the intake manifolds
replaced immediately at the dealer after noticing the coolent loss. The
dealer 'refused' in writing to quarantee or take any responsibility for any
damage to the engine already caused thru this obvious design flaw. The car
ran for another 10k before the engine seized even after checking the fluid
levels weekly. It was a '95 GA 3.1 and I was quoted 3500$ to replace the
engine. I said screw that and bought a new car at a new dealer... lesson
learned.
Pa=BAul=20=3Cpy=AAats=40texxxas=2Enet=3E - 09 Aug 2003 01:12 GMT
> Lesson Learned :   Check engine for coolant leak if you own a 1996-2003 GM
> vehicle with either a 3.1L or 3.4L V6 engine.  Your engine may self-destruct
> without warning!!!

A well known and documented problem.  If affects all years of that
block design, not just the 3.1 or 3.4 and not just 96-03.
Joe - 09 Aug 2003 08:24 GMT
This isn't actionable, is it?  If I understand "Self-destruct without
warning" correctly, I should just avoid buying another 3.1.

> > Lesson Learned :   Check engine for coolant leak if you own a 1996-2003 GM
> > vehicle with either a 3.1L or 3.4L V6 engine.  Your engine may self-destruct
> > without warning!!!
>
> A well known and documented problem.  If affects all years of that
> block design, not just the 3.1 or 3.4 and not just 96-03.
Pa=BAul=20=3Cpy=AAats=40texxxas=2Enet=3E - 09 Aug 2003 14:40 GMT
Yeah, I doubt if I will ever buy a GM 60 degree engine.
I'm going to keep my old 3300 cast iron 90 degree Grand Am for as
long as I can.

> This isn't actionable, is it?  If I understand "Self-destruct without
> warning" correctly, I should just avoid buying another 3.1.

> > A well known and documented problem.  If affects all years of that
> > block design, not just the 3.1 or 3.4 and not just 96-03.
Bonnevilles R Kewl - 09 Aug 2003 23:34 GMT
Yeah I dont trust any engine that I cant see and touch all the injectors
on. V90 deg car engines are all I'd want to own.

> Yeah, I doubt if I will ever buy a GM 60 degree engine.
> I'm going to keep my old 3300 cast iron 90 degree Grand Am for as
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > > A well known and documented problem.  If affects all years of that
> > > block design, not just the 3.1 or 3.4 and not just 96-03.
Nick Trounson - 11 Aug 2003 01:32 GMT
I'm pretty sure the 3800 isn't 90deg. And I can see and touch all my
injectors.

Nick.

> Yeah I dont trust any engine that I cant see and touch all the injectors
> on. V90 deg car engines are all I'd want to own.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> > > > A well known and documented problem.  If affects all years of that
> > > > block design, not just the 3.1 or 3.4 and not just 96-03.
jon87transam - 29 Dec 2005 01:10 GMT
hey just so you know, from about '88 on up, gm used the same design plastic
intake gaskets on 3800's also.  i have replaced many of them where i used to
work also.  did many 3.1-3.4 gasket replacements also.  we looked for leaks
at any time the hood was up on cars with these engines.  i don't know where
you guys live, but the most i seen for a gasket replacement was aroun $475,
and you always change the oil when done.  very few did we see with antifreeze
inside the crankcase, but it does happen.  mostly leaks outside though.  i
understand gm rates them about 80,000 miles, sorry yours didn't make it.
there are replacement gaskets now made of metal, just came out, fel-pro i
think.  just to play safe, i would routinely replace the plastic gaskets
every 40,000-50,000, if you want to keep your car(s).  by the way, we own a
alero with a 3.4, already changed them once, now i need head gaskets :), life
goes on...afterthought, the 3.4 is also plauged with head gasket problems,
usually on the back head, passenger side, bottom.  i hate these engines, but
they put food on the table for technicians...we gotta eat too!

>I'm pretty sure the 3800 isn't 90deg. And I can see and touch all my
>injectors.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> > > > A well known and documented problem.  If affects all years of that
>> > > > block design, not just the 3.1 or 3.4 and not just 96-03.
 
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