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Car Forum / Porsche / Porshe 944 / April 2006

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Bought my first Porsche

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Paul - 16 Apr 2006 03:24 GMT
Well, I fell into what I thought was a deal, probably not, but I am happy.  It
is a 1978 924 with 69,000 (miles) on the clock.  New brakes, tires, brake
lines, fuel line, and most body panels cleaned and painted (the doors, hood and
driver fender need to be stripped and painted yet).  I am waiting for a new
Master cylinder, as that is shot, and for some time to work my way through the
electrical issues it has.

So the problems as I see it on this car are:  
1.  The master cylinder is dead.
       This is no big deal, I have one on order.
2.  The brake lights don't work
       I assume if the cylinder is dead, that there is not enough pressure to
trip the brake switch?  So this should be fixed with the MC.
3.  The turn signals came on, but do not blink.
       I removed what I call the flasher on all of my US built cars.  Could
not find a suitable replacement, and put it back in.  It works.  JFM.
4.  Only the oil gauge in the middle gauges/clock package work.
5.  The radio doesn't work.
6.  The head lights/running lights do not work.
7.  The head lights do not raise up.  The previous owner (his wife) indicated
her husband always had to manually crank them up.(Impressive design BTW)  I
assume this means the lights came on.
8.  The wife claims that the car will kill the battery.
       I have not put a amp meter on this yet, but when I tried the arc test
it was dead, nothing sparking.  When I got in the car to drive it home (yes,
with a bad master cylinder, but wait it gets better) I checked the radio, and
it was on, with no sound.  I have since turned it to OFF.
9.  The parking brake cable was removed.
10.  A previous owner has installed a "magic switch" that will give the car
more power.  This was removed, with what appears to have been force.
11. At speed the steering is loose.  It take a good turn of the wheel to
actually get the car to correct.
12. I appear to be missing a lot of seals.
13. There is standing water in the rear tail lights.

I found the unusual (at least to me) fuses this car takes, so I hope to start
swapping out the fuses to replace the burned out ones.  I have a Haynes manual
for it, but no were can I find what the fuses are supposed to be rated at.  A
couple of them have been replaced with glass ones that are just a hair to
small.  I found this site
(http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/elect-10.htm)  but this for a 944.

The two main issues I am wrestling with are that I am not familiar with the
Porsche line of cars, to know the family of cars sharing the same engine or
bodies.  As well as this, I can not find a comprehensive aftermarket dealer.  
Specifically the parking brake.  I can not find a replacement for this for this
car.  Since this is a 4 speed I do not feel comfortable with out one.

So even though the two hour drive home was with weak brakes, no signals, no
brake lights it put a smile on my face that is hard to wipe off.  I was
followed by my wife most of the time, and used hand signals (which in
retrospect hanging ones arm out of the window of a car in Detroit probably
isn't a fantastic idea).  Once I got off the freeways and onto the country
highways it was a bit easier driving.  I took some corners hard (primarily
because I couldn't slow down with the brakes) and it stayed level and the
wheels where they were supposed too.  This little car is going to be a lot of
fun!

Paul
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William B Noble (don't reply to this address) - 16 Apr 2006 06:30 GMT
step 1 - locate and download the porsche service manual and the PET6
program - links have been posted here a lot

step 2 - drill tiny hole in bottom corner of rear lights to let water
drain out - I used a #60 drill and twirled it by hand - this is a
common problem and you'll never fix it.

step 3. brake lights on all that I've looked at (not as early a 924 as
yours) are driven by a switch under the dash t hat the pedal pushes
on.  I'd suspect you ahve a lot of burned out light bulbs, or ones
making poor contact

step 4 - check volts from alternator - be sure it's within tolerance

step 5 - you probably have broken wires to speaker, or no speakers

by the way, when chaning master cyl, be sure you exchange all the
brake fluid.  you will be much happier if you spring for a $35
pressure bleeder - there is one made specially for these cars and
that's what it costs new - saves no end of hassle.

steering - do the obvious wear tests, change what needs to be changed.

parts - I get mine from www.importedcarparts.com or sometimes
www.performanceproducts.com   for a lot of parts the porsche dealer is
surprisingly cheap - don't assume that the dealer is overpriced on
parts - at least that's been my experience her on hte left coast

>Well, I fell into what I thought was a deal, probably not, but I am happy.  It
>is a 1978 924 with 69,000 (miles) on the clock.  New brakes, tires, brake
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
>Paul
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_  b_   No  ble   at  msn  daught   com
Honest John - 16 Apr 2006 08:49 GMT
They say a fool and his money is easily parted an heres your proof.
The car sounds a joke and you will be to driving a 924.
Everyone knows that the 924 is the poor mans Porsche.
You don't have enough money to buy a proper Porsche so buy a wreck of a 924
just because it has a Porsche badge.

> step 1 - locate and download the porsche service manual and the PET6
> program - links have been posted here a lot
[quoted text clipped - 114 lines]
> will iam_  b_   No  ble   at  msn  daught   com
> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
Malc - 16 Apr 2006 12:30 GMT
> They say a fool and his money is easily parted an heres your proof.
> The car sounds a joke and you will be to driving a 924.
> Everyone knows that the 924 is the poor mans Porsche.
> You don't have enough money to buy a proper Porsche so buy a wreck of a 924
> just because it has a Porsche badge.

Forget the badge prestige & look at it as a cheap, well built sportscar. I
didn't buy my 944 because it's got a pretty badge, I bought it because it's
a good  front-engined rwd sportscar in the pricerange I could afford.

From the list of faults Paul gave it looks like the expensive stuff (clutch,
engine, suspension, bodywork) is in working order, his list mostly consists
of things that can be fixed relatively cheaply over a period of time with
only a few of the jobs needing immediate attention.

Malc.
Nate Nagel - 18 Apr 2006 02:57 GMT
Geez, tear the guy a new one why don't you.  maybe he just wanted a
cheap, good handling car...  so maybe he made a bad purchase, so what?
tell him what he needs to do to fix it and let him make his own
decisions as to whether he made the right choice or not.

nate

> They say a fool and his money is easily parted an heres your proof.
> The car sounds a joke and you will be to driving a 924.
[quoted text clipped - 121 lines]
>>will iam_  b_   No  ble   at  msn  daught   com
>>*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Signature

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alordofchaos@yahoo.com - 18 Apr 2006 14:18 GMT
> > They say a fool and his money is easily parted an heres your proof.
> > The car sounds a joke and you will be to driving a 924.

Which, for a 29-year old vehicle, is darn fine car.  Properly set up,
it can handle turns with the most modern cars.  The 2.0 liter is
underpowered for a sports car and weak compared to modern 2.0 liter 4
bangers, but provides enough power for a daily driver.  And can provide
30mpg to boot.

> > Everyone knows that the 924 is the poor mans Porsche.

Hey, I thought that was the 912?  Or 914?  ;-)

> > You don't have enough money to buy a proper Porsche so buy a wreck of a 924
> > just because it has a Porsche badge.

Nothing wrong with buying a wreck and saving it; if people only bought
pristine garage queens to drive, these cars would disappear.  Hint:
"labor of love"

> Geez, tear the guy a new one why don't you.  maybe he just wanted a
> cheap, good handling car...  so maybe he made a bad purchase, so what?

"Bad purchase" depends on how much he paid for it, and what he wants it
for.  Might turn out to be totally worth it for him.  If he was driving
a SUV and will drive this during the 7 or 8 months of "good" weather,
he may be able to save enough gas money in a few years to pay back his
purchase price!

I look at him buying the 924 sorta like taking that first free sample
from the local crack dealer ;-)
He'll restore that 924, enjoy the heck out of driving it, and in a few
more years, there'll be a 944 in the garage, then a 951, etc. (but
he'll always keep that 924)
Paul - 19 Apr 2006 00:24 GMT
>> > They say a fool and his money is easily parted an heres your proof.
>> > The car sounds a joke and you will be to driving a 924.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> more years, there'll be a 944 in the garage, then a 951, etc. (but
> he'll always keep that 924)

Actually I will be replacing my 13 year old Geo Metro Convertable with it.
With the burnt valve, leaky injector, and always in fast idle it gets about
32 mpg, so it will be a small decrease.  I just have had enough of the 0 to
75 in 5 days.

My wife has informed me in no uncertain terms this will be my only
Porsche...of course never say never.  I'm more interested in how this will
change the way I am going to finish my '69 Firebird.

In case you care I paid 800 for it.  From what I have seen it is the low
average, at least from EBay, and it is less than I paid for the Metro.  

I fully agree with you, more people should learn how to maintain their own
cars, and repair them properly.  Maybe that way we would see more
interesting cars on the road, and people actually driving like they know
what happens when you abuse the car.

I do love usenet though.  I ask some questions, the resident troll pops his
face up to see if he can show what an a.s he is, and then the good citizens
stand up and defend a new member, as if he attacked them directly.  God I
love usenet.

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p Sorah circle at mutual data period com(ercial)
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PDX944 - 19 Apr 2006 00:41 GMT
Congrats on the porsche.  DO NOT DRILL A HOLE IN THE
TAILLIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had the same problem and all I did was as follows:
1. Remove all the carpeting in the trunk.
2. Behind the tail-light is a black plastic covering, remove it (there
should be 4 or 3 screws and a white knob you turn by hand.
3. Use a tube to suck out all the water, then dry with paper towels.
4. Buy a tube of that gasket stuff.
5. Tape off tail-lights.
6. Apply material.
7. Let dry for 24 hours.
8. Put everything back together.

Hope this helps!
William B Noble (don't reply to this address) - 20 Apr 2006 07:57 GMT
you can do that (below) - on two out of 3 944s that I have, the tail
lights have small cracks in them.  these cracks let water in when you
wash the car, or if you live where it rains, then when it rains too.
If you take the "seal it" approach, the water will still come in the
cracks and you'll be sucking regularly (ok, EEEEWWWWW).  I assure you
that a #60 hole (that's a really small hole) is nearly invisible, and
it will drain the water (slowly) - just clean it once in a while so it
does't get stopped up.

Now, if your tail light is PERFECT and the water got in some other
way, then of course, do not drill, reseal.

>Congrats on the porsche.  DO NOT DRILL A HOLE IN THE
>TAILLIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Hope this helps!
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_  b_   No  ble   at  msn  daught   com
Paul - 17 Apr 2006 11:10 GMT
>>Well, I fell into what I thought was a deal, probably not, but I am happy.
>> It
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>>
>>Paul

> step 1 - locate and download the porsche service manual and the PET6
> program - links have been posted here a lot
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> will iam_  b_   No  ble   at  msn  daught   com
> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
William,

Thanks for the great post, I have printed it out, and plan to use it like a
laundry list.  Were do you get the bleeder for $35?  I have only found it
at Pelican and for $49.95 (I know stop quibbling over pennies).

I did get to spend a little time yesterday, when I was not hobbling around
with a nail in my foot,  and replaced all the fuses.  For the most part,
everything comes up, except the mid gauges still.  With the key in the off
position the Volt meter works (12V).  With the key in on, it slams over to
0V.  The clock seems to be working, but that is not a huge concern of mine.
Also there is a 7.2A drain from the battery with the key in the off
position.  I intend to start pulling the fuses when I get a chance, and
narrowing it down.  

I have three theories about the volt meter though.  First it could just be a
previous owner screwed with the wiring.  This seems implausible to me
though, as the harness is a single multipin plug (according to Haynes).  
The second is that the ignition switch is bad.  Again I discount this as
a)I have never seen any ignition switch go bad, and b)everything else on
the circuit is working.  That leaves me with my third, the wire to the
gauge is broken, and something is leaking current around to it.  This is my
favorite theory, as this would explain the battery drain.  I just can't
seem to put my finger on what component would be in a position to do that.

Well it is all conjecture at this time, until I can dig into it.

As for the brake light, I did not see any switch under the dash, nor any
place to mount one, as I assumed it was bad or off position when I was
preparing to drive it home.  Also the Haynes book backs this up, with two
pressure switches feeding an IC running to the lights.

Thank you again for the great reply.

Paul.
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alordofchaos@yahoo.com - 17 Apr 2006 14:58 GMT
> >>Well, I fell into what I thought was a deal, probably not, but I am happy.

When it comes to buying a Porsche, we've all made many irrational
decisions ;-)

> >> It s a 1978 924 with 69,000 (miles) on the clock.

It's been nearly a decade since I sold my '79 924 to make room in the
garage, but I added a 944 last year to make up for it.  Speaking of
irrational decisions...
But I wouldn't place too much trust in the 5-digit odometer; chances
are that it's rolled over.  On the other hand, mileage is much less of
an issue than how it was cared for.

> >> I found this site (http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/elect-10.htm)
> >>but this for a 944.

Check out the 924/944 boards at Rennlist.com and 924.org

> >>Specifically the parking brake.  I can not find a replacement for this for
> >>this car.  Since this is a 4 speed I do not feel comfortable with out one.

> >>So even though the two hour drive home was with weak brakes, no signals,
> >>no brake lights it put a smile on my face that is hard to wipe off.

This is where the irrational part keeps kicking in ;-)

All good stuff that Bill wrote.  The only thing I would add is that
there are a lot of places where a corroded or loose wire could ground,
including the power windows.

> I have three theories about the volt meter though.  First it could just be a
> previous owner screwed with the wiring.  This seems implausible to me
> though, as the harness is a single multipin plug (according to Haynes).

You'd be surprised at how much a previous owner can change/screw the
electricals on these cars!  Not that they were great to begin with - I
remember that the grounds on the early 924 were notoriously bad.

I'll just add a couple of other places to check for parts:

paragon-products.com
944online.com (mostly 944 stuff, but you can ask if it's
interchangeable)
Nate Nagel - 18 Apr 2006 02:59 GMT
>>>Well, I fell into what I thought was a deal, probably not, but I am happy.
>>>It
[quoted text clipped - 146 lines]
>
> Paul.

never assume that the ignition switch is not bad, I have seen them fail
on several VWs and I ASSume that Porsches use similar parts from similar
suppliers.  A special no-no is to keep your car keys on a ring with lots
of other keys, will wear it out quicker that way.

good luck,

nate

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Dave Ryman - 19 Apr 2006 02:32 GMT
(snip)
> never assume that the ignition switch is not bad, I have seen them
> fail on several VWs and I ASSume that Porsches use similar parts from
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> nate

As far as I know virtually all the 924 electrics are VW. IMHO one of the
weaknesses of the car.

I hope that the engine, gearbox etc... are all in fine condition: but I
assume you've invested in a mechanic to check these.

Signature

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      Dave

dave_ryman@hotmailNOSPAM.com
http://welcome.to/daves.website
http://travel.to/formula.one

windz1@aol.com - 16 Apr 2006 12:13 GMT
Welcome, what a project! William B. has, I've always found, been
helpfull. These cars are a lot of fun. I just handed down my 944 to my
son having purchased a 911, and I miss it. No comparison on the
handling. Look at the shocks, after you deal with all the safety
issues. You'll be amazed at the handling difference. Oh and start
saving up for your 944, or if you want more speed! 944t. Congrats and
enjoy. As far as a " poor mans Porsche" comment, we all start
somewhere, get hooked, and move on from there. A while ago someone
made a similar comment when I picked up a 944 that had a catastrophic
timing belt failure. When all was said and done thanks to rennlist,
pca, and a lot of elbow grease, I had  a great car for 2,700.00.
Enjoyed it for 3 yrs.trouble free and moved on.
don  

>Well, I fell into what I thought was a deal, probably not, but I am happy.  It
>is a 1978 924 with 69,000 (miles) on the clock.  New brakes, tires, brake
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
>Paul
joliett - 16 Apr 2006 16:37 GMT
It doesnt have flared fenders, and looks funny with no rear spoiler, but
that wont stop that baby from driving (and breaking like a Porsche) - have
fun and enjoy the classic.
Does the horn work?
Signature

______
joliett

Paul - 17 Apr 2006 10:54 GMT
> Well, I fell into what I thought was a deal, probably not, but I am happy.
>  It
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
> Paul

Thanks to all that responded with helpful and positive comments.  I hope to
get done with my domestic chores so that I can get into the diagnosis and
repair.  I will be posting more questions later.

Paul.
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