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Car Forum / Porsche / Porshe 944 / January 2007Windshield fluid pump '86 944T
I went to fill the windshield fluid reservoir yesterday and the tubing broke off at a T in the top of the reservoir tank. The design seems odd, and I'm not sure I understand it. At the reservoir cap, there are two penetrations into the reservoir. The first is a pickup tube - one end goes into the tank with a pickup filter on its end. The other end goes to feed a pump mounted lower down on the reservoir. This tubing has no compression ring fittings on it. That part seems straight forward. Coming out of the pump is another tube with compression ring fittings at the pump and all other fittings. This tube returns to the top of the reservoir, and connects to a T. One end of the T goes back into the reservoir through the cap, and the other end goes on from the T to the washer jets on the front window. All connections on this tubing have compression ring fittings, and it is this T fitting that broke. What I don't understand is why the T penetrates back into the reservoir. There's nothing connected to the T inside the reservoir. It looks like the pump pulls fluid from the pickup on the first fitting, then returns it at high pressure past the reservoir, with some leaking back into the reservoir through the open T, and the rest going to the window nozzles. Is this correct? Is there supposed to be some tubing inside the tank on this T that has fallen off? Why don't they just send fluid from the pump to the window nozzles? I have to replace the broken T, but if I just put in a standard T, won't the fluid just flow out of the T into the reservoir, without giving much pressure to the window nozzles? Is the T supposed to have some calibrated leak opening to ensure sufficient pressure remains to get to the window nozzles? Is there a piece that attaches inside the reservoir to this T that has fallen off? Last Q - where does the fluid for the headlight nozzles come from? Is there another pump down below that I can't see? Thanks for any insight.  SignatureT o d d P a t t i s t (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) Yes, there is another pump down lower on the tank (towards the front) for the head light sprayer. I'd advise you on the tees and the rest of your plumbing, but I got a little lost reading reading your post... It sounds like there might be some kind of relief -- the nozzels are restrictors, essentially, to make the fluid spray out with force. The pump might overpower the tubing and connections if there isn't a way for the excess fluid to circulate back into the tank. (like a fuel tank and fuel injection) Good luck! > I went to fill the windshield fluid reservoir yesterday and > the tubing broke off at a T in the top of the reservoir [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > T o d d P a t t i s t > (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) >Yes, there is another pump down lower on the tank (towards the front) >for the head light sprayer. I can see that pump, and it seems to work correctly. It's not really involved in my question. >I'd advise you on the tees and the rest of your plumbing, but I got a >little lost reading reading your post... Sorry, I tried to make it clear :-( >It sounds like there might be some kind of relief -- the nozzels are >restrictors, essentially, to make the fluid spray out with force. The >pump might overpower the tubing and connections if there isn't a way >for the excess fluid to circulate back into the tank. (like a fuel >tank and fuel injection) That is my guess too. The broken T is on the output of the pump and runs at high pressure. All of the connections on this line have crimped rings to prevent the tubing from blowing off under the pump pressure. However, if the T that leaks back into the washer is a "restrictor" of some type that lets fluid leak back into the fluid tank (like a fuel return) then I can't use an ordinary T to replace the broken one. An ordinary T would presumably leak too much pressure back into the tank. Where do I get a "restriction T" to replace the broken one? Or is there a restrictor nozzle piece that has fallen off the end of the T the goes into the tank? I've looked in the tank, but would need to remove it. or get a borescope to be certain there's nothing deep inside that might have fallen off the part of the T that extends into the tank. SignatureT o d d P a t t i s t (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) at the risk of sounding like a pompous a.s, let me suggest that you just get a regular "T" and try it - you will probably find that it does leak too much - so then you make a small restriction that you jam into the hose and try again - how to make a restriction? you take a small drill (or a heated pin) and make a hole in a piece of plastic that just fits into the hose - start with a medium large hole (that cuts diameter by about half) and decrease size until it all works right - my message, think how you can do this easily yourself. >>Yes, there is another pump down lower on the tank (towards the front) >>for the head light sprayer. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > certain there's nothing deep inside that might have fallen > off the part of the T that extends into the tank. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com I'm just interested in how this is supposed to work correctly. It seemed likely that someone else had looked at the washer fluid cap and noticed whether there were two hoses penetrating it or just one pickup and the T. After all, the cap has to be removed every time it's filled so it's a piece that every owner sees. If there are actually two hoses going inside the tank, then I'm missing a piece with a restriction that has fallen down where I can't see it. Sure, we can speculate how it might work, and I can try to manufacture a part to replace a piece that might be missing based on my guess on how it "should" work, but I always look for the available information before trying to "fix" something that I'm not sure I understand. There's nothing wrong with asking for some advice from those who might have useful information. >at the risk of sounding like a pompous a.s, let me suggest that you just get >a regular "T" and try it - you will probably find that it does leak too [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> certain there's nothing deep inside that might have fallen >> off the part of the T that extends into the tank. SignatureT o d d P a t t i s t (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) Hi, I had the same problem (broken T and did not understand how the heck is this working). My problem also was that the headlight washers were working but the winshield was not even though the pump was working. After a process of elimination, I couldn't get it to work with 2 tubes going into the reservoir so I ended up replacing the T with a straight connector and just leaving ONE tube going into the reservoir and then both the headlights and the windshield work fine now. I don't remember which one was left in the tank but it is not hard to figure out since there is only so many combinations you can try. Till today I have no idea how it is 'supposed' to work! Good luck! > I'm just interested in how this is supposed to work > correctly. It seemed likely that someone else had looked at [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > T o d d P a t t i s t > (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) >I ended up replacing the T with a straight >connector and just leaving ONE tube going into the reservoir and then >both the headlights and the windshield work fine now. Thanks, that was sort of where I was headed - see if it worked with a straight through. I'm surprised that it affected the headlight spray. I haven't checked my headlight washers, but I thought the feed for that came off the bottom of the tank. SignatureT o d d P a t t i s t (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) there are two hoses that go into the tank, one is pickup, one is return. the pickup tube has a screen on the end with a ball valve, the return is cut at a 45 degree angle on the end, they are held together if I remember right wth a little rubber band like thing > I'm just interested in how this is supposed to work > correctly. It seemed likely that someone else had looked at [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>> certain there's nothing deep inside that might have fallen >>> off the part of the T that extends into the tank. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >there are two hoses that go into the tank, one is pickup, one is return. >the pickup tube has a screen on the end with a ball valve, the return is cut >at a 45 degree angle on the end, they are held together if I remember right >wth a little rubber band like thing Thanks, this means the second hose has fallen down into the tank. I'll fish around in there some more with my remote grabber. SignatureT o d d P a t t i s t (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) i believe this is all shown on the diagram in the PET-6, though my memory could be deceiving me >>there are two hoses that go into the tank, one is pickup, one is return. >>the pickup tube has a screen on the end with a ball valve, the return is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > tank. I'll fish around in there some more with my remote > grabber. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ok, I was working on a 944S today - there are two hoses - as follows: hose 1 - has screen on end, goes straight to the pump inlet hose 2 - connected to a T - the pump's outlet goes to the T, and the remaining connection to the T goes to the washer nozzles. - this hose has nothing on the end of it - the T may have an internal restriction, no way to tell that from outside. >i believe this is all shown on the diagram in the PET-6, though my memory >could be deceiving me [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> tank. I'll fish around in there some more with my remote >> grabber. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >ok, I was working on a 944S today - there are two hoses - as follows: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >nothing on the end of it - the T may have an internal restriction, no way to >tell that from outside. Thanks. At least I don't have to look for a missing tube inside the tank. I should be able to determine the restriction , if any, and replicate it in a regular T connection. SignatureT o d d P a t t i s t (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) |
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