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Car Forum / Porsche / Porshe 944 / January 2007

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Bad vibration & not idling

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itten - 01 Jan 2007 12:02 GMT
I've got a 1987 944 and noticed an unusual vibration from the engine when
first starting and when driving, not as noticable.  Now the car won't idle.
The engine stalls at traffic lights so I made it home yesterday before I got
stranded.  I also noticed a large puff of white smoke out of the exhaust
when I started it yesterday.  I had the motor mounts replaced recently and I
don't know if that's what's causing the problem.  Should I take this off the
road now, because I don't want to spend any big bucks now getting all this
repaired?
BGMedia - 01 Jan 2007 15:12 GMT
My guess is you've blown a head gasket, and now it's running on 3
cylinders (the puff of white smoke was coolant going out of the
exhaust, and now the compression seal is not complete on that cylinder
-- hence why it's only running on 3...)

Pull your spark plugs, and see if one looks kinda wet or oily, or, at
the very least, different than the other three.

If you're mechanically inclined, you can probably tackle this yourself.
Spend time to read up on it and download the PDF manuals.  It will
probably take you about 10 hours to do the job, however, you might want
to take the head to a head shop (not the kind that sells bongs!) once
you have it off and have them check to make sure the mounting surface
is flat, and maybe look at the valves.

You'll need a head gasket kit along with intake and exhaust gaskets.
It might be a good time to change the timing belt, since you have to
take it off to take the head off.

Good luck!

> I've got a 1987 944 and noticed an unusual vibration from the engine when
> first starting and when driving, not as noticable.  Now the car won't idle.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> road now, because I don't want to spend any big bucks now getting all this
> repaired?
itten - 01 Jan 2007 15:57 GMT
I just pulled all four of my plugs and they all look the same.  They are all
dry on the tip.
Also, I have not seen that puff of white smoke since yesterday after several
starts.
It still will not idle on it's own unless I keep the gas pedal depressed and
I certainly won't drive it in that condition
The vibration is still very loud and noticible.

> My guess is you've blown a head gasket, and now it's running on 3
> cylinders (the puff of white smoke was coolant going out of the
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>> this
>> repaired?
William Noble - 02 Jan 2007 06:26 GMT
I would bet you that you have slipped a couple of teeth on the timing belt,
and if I am right, you should NOT start the engine again until you fix
this - check the timing - read how to do it in the factory manual and follow
the instructions exactly - if the timing is still OK, then we can think of
other things, but if the timing is off, you are very close to doing serious
harm to your engine

>I just pulled all four of my plugs and they all look the same.  They are
>all dry on the tip.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>>> this
>>> repaired?

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itten - 02 Jan 2007 11:23 GMT
I recently bought this car from a European car repair shop from the owner
and he told me the timimg belt was one of the things that was replaced
before I bought it, so I'm hoping it's not that.

>I would bet you that you have slipped a couple of teeth on the timing belt,
>and if I am right, you should NOT start the engine again until you fix
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>>>> this
>>>> repaired?
darthpup - 02 Jan 2007 15:03 GMT
Sounds like it could be a sticking air flow valve.  Check
www.clarks-garage.com and give it a shot of gummout.

If some off the shelf mechanic changed the timing belt then WBN is
probably correct.
itten - 02 Jan 2007 20:30 GMT
The timimg belt was changed by an auto repair shop that specializes in high
end sports cars so I trust he knew what he was doing.
He has worked on two of my Saabs and he did a good job.

> Sounds like it could be a sticking air flow valve.  Check
> www.clarks-garage.com and give it a shot of gummout.
>
> If some off the shelf mechanic changed the timing belt then WBN is
> probably correct.
BGMedia - 03 Jan 2007 05:01 GMT
You know you can check the cam timing without taking anything apart...
there is a little inspection hole next to the distributor, and a flat
groove mark on the side of the flywheel that will line up with a notch
in the bell housing (looking up from the bottom).  (there is also an
inspection window near the flywheel sensors behind the valve cover, but
that's harder to see.)  Because the cam spins once for every two
revolutions of the crank, the easiest way to do it is to put a 24mm
deep socket on the front crankshaft pulley nut, and turn it slowly
until you see the cam gear mark in the inspection hole (you'll probably
need a flashlight).  Once this mark is lined up, jack up the car, slide
under with your flash light (using all appropreate jack stands and
safety supports, of course) and look for the bottom flywheel mark.

If the cam timing is correct, I'd suggest a compression test next.  If
the compression test passes, then I'd think it's a spark or fuel
problem...  To diagnose that, take off ONE spark plug wire at a time
and try and start it up.  If you remove 1 wire, and the runs as poorly
as you've described, but no worse, then that's your screwed up
cylinder.

Good luck!  Let us know how you make out.

> The timimg belt was changed by an auto repair shop that specializes in high
> end sports cars so I trust he knew what he was doing.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > If some off the shelf mechanic changed the timing belt then WBN is
> > probably correct.
itten - 06 Jan 2007 21:39 GMT
A friend of mine told me to check the coolant for oil, and sure enough, I
felt oil on my fingers and I noticed an oily smell.
I'm afraid this might be something I won't be getting fixed anytime soon.

> You know you can check the cam timing without taking anything apart...
> there is a little inspection hole next to the distributor, and a flat
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>> > If some off the shelf mechanic changed the timing belt then WBN is
>> > probably correct.
William Noble - 07 Jan 2007 05:20 GMT
AAAH, the fix is not hard, unless the block is cracked.  there are exactly
two places where this mixing of coolant and oil is likely
1. the seals on the oil/water cooler (inside the block by the oil filter) -
takes about 4 hours to change, kinda messy and cramped, but not too hard.
Typically leaks here if engine was lightly overheated.  will not cause it to
run improperly
2. head gasket - will cause it to run improperly.  easy to fix, just remove
manifolds,, set engine to TDC, remove belts, remove cam tower, unbolt head
and change it, being sure to torque bolts properly in correct sequence.
while head is off, inspect head and cyl liners for cracks.  this also takes
about 4 hours

>A friend of mine told me to check the coolant for oil, and sure enough, I
>felt oil on my fingers and I noticed an oily smell.
> I'm afraid this might be something I won't be getting fixed anytime soon.

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darthpup - 07 Jan 2007 14:57 GMT
Oil and water do not mix.  If there is oil in the water it will be
floating on top.  Feeling oiley will not be a test.
William Noble - 03 Jan 2007 05:23 GMT
danger danger danger --- check your timing -
I bought a bunch of parts from a guy who had an "expert" work on his 924S -
the "expert" would put the timing belt on incorrectly and then when it would
slip tell him "oh, they all do that" and charge him for fixing it again -
and by incorrectly, I mean inside out.  I strongly suspect your belt was
incorrectly tensioned and skipped a tooth or three - Please, do yourself a
favor, READ THE BOOK and check the timing - a 7 year old can do it, you
certainly can too.

> The timimg belt was changed by an auto repair shop that specializes in
> high end sports cars so I trust he knew what he was doing.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> If some off the shelf mechanic changed the timing belt then WBN is
>> probably correct.

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