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Car Forum / Porsche / Porshe 944 / March 2008Questions about Reliability and Maintenance for 944
I'm in the market for a new car, after my old one was totaled (not my fault), and I'm seriously considering one of two 944's available locally. I'min Texas, so winter wear isn't really a concern for local cars. What I'm wondering is the reliability and costs inherent in these cars. One of them is an 83 944, with 55K miles, and what I've read about it claims that it has full repair papers. The other I'm looking at is an 86 with 90K, and no other great info besides pics. Price is between 5 and 6 thousand on both. I'm not very mechanically inclined, but willing to learn, and I don't have a ton of money. I've read a 944 FAQ which details the common problems in these cars. I'm wondering, if the 83 really does have full repair papers, like new belts etc. How long would it take to require new ones, and how expensive would common repairs be. I will have this whole summer to learn all about this car, and about cars in general, so I'm really wondering if a 944 I purchase very soon would last till August with few problems. The reason I'm concerned is, to be honest, I'm new to the whole Porsche community and looking through all this is kind of overwhelming. I know these cars will be silky smooth and enjoyable to the Nth degree, but from what I've seen in all these Porsche forums I'm just a bit concerned that I'll purchase it, and then a month later, even with detailed repairs, this or that will blow and I'll be stuck with a $1500 repair bill that I can't pay. Sorry if this comes off as overly pessemistic and cautious, but any help concerning the overall reliability of these cars would be greatly, immensely appreciated. you are right to be cautious. the FAQs and Clark's garage are generally good sites. 1. I do all my own work - so in my case maintaining at one point 4 944s was not an expensive proposition. 2. there are two EXPENSIVE repairs on a 944: broken timing belt and clutch. If you change the timing belt per recommended interval and don't mess up (I saw one where the guy's mechanic put the belt in upside down and destroyed the engine making a nice car into a parts car) - then you will not have a timing belt failure and the car will run about 350,000 miles. If the timing belt breaks you will have about $1000 in parts and about 8 hours labor to remove and rebuild the head. the clutch will fail at about 12 plus or minus 3 years due to deterioration of the rubber insert - if the clutch was replaced with a model that has springs instead of rubber you are immune to this failure. Replacing a clutch on a 944 costs about $600 in parts and about 24 hours in labor if you have done it before. 3. I gave my 944 to my brother with over 250K miles on it about 8 years ago- he is still driving it, no unusual problems - we've changed a hose or two, PS rack and maybe some other minor stuff. 4. the 86 will be easier to work on and has a number of improvements - 87 would be better. 6. price on either car is about double what it should be - the last 83 I was associated with was bought for $500 not running, took us less than a grand and a week's work to get it on the road, and a bit more for new tires. the 86 I bought most recently for a daughter was $3000 and I figure I overpaid - I was in a hurry. > I'm in the market for a new car, after my old one was totaled (not my > fault), and I'm seriously considering one of two 944's available [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > help concerning the overall reliability of these cars would be > greatly, immensely appreciated.  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > you are right to be cautious. the FAQs and Clark's garage are generally > good sites. [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I've read the FAQ and visited Clark's Garage site, and have read through them in detail. I've got a Carfax report on the 83, which doesn't show any large mileage jumps, and I think I could talk him down to apx 5K. You said that the price was double, and from searching Autotrader nationwide, it is a good thousand or so higher than average. However, I've not the time to drive 1000+ miles to get one at a cheaper price. On a closer inspection, the "private seller" I may be buying from may have simply gotten one of these cheaper ones and drove it down here, and fixed it up some (New belts, mounts etc.) and is making a decent bit of profit from the sale. I'm relatively ok with this, as I really don't have the time to dedicate to finding and retrieving a car cross country. I'm having a mechanic take a look at the car tomorrow, and if everything checks out ok, I'll probably purchase it, hopefully for 5,000. It seems that I'm paying about 1000 so I don't have to travel cross country and replace the belts myself. It feelsworth it to me to get a car that I'll learn about and work on for, hopefully, the next 10 years. =P Once again, thanks tons to y'all for giving me all this advice,it's been immeasurably useful. " I've read the FAQ and visited Clark's Garage site, and have read through them in detail. I've got a Carfax report on the 83, which doesn't show any large mileage jumps, and I think I could talk him down to apx 5K. You said that the price was double, and from searching Autotrader nationwide, it is a good thousand or so higher than average. However, I've not the time to drive 1000+ miles to get one at a cheaper price. On a closer inspection, the "private seller" I may be buying from may have simply gotten one of these cheaper ones and drove it down here, and fixed it up some (New belts, mounts etc.) and is making a decent bit of profit from the sale. I'm relatively ok with this, as I really don't have the time to dedicate to finding and retrieving a car cross country. I'm having a mechanic take a look at the car tomorrow, and if everything checks out ok, I'll probably purchase it, hopefully for 5,000. It seems that I'm paying about 1000 so I don't have to travel cross country and replace the belts myself. It feelsworth it to me to get a car that I'll learn about and work on for, hopefully, the next 10 years. =P Once again, thanks tons to y'all for giving me all this advice,it's been immeasurably useful. have mechanic check clutch - ask if it has rubber center. check timing belt. ask price to replace timing belt. ask price to replace clutch. test AC (usual failure is front seal on AC) - check ps rack for leaks, check ps pump for leaks, etc if you won't be doing your own work, you will want to know prices. I would not pay over $3000 unless I knew clutch was recently replaced with spring type, belts were current, no significant leaks of anything, and mileage under 100K. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Clodius wrote: > I've got a Carfax report on the 83, which doesn't show any large > mileage jumps, Be aware of CarFax limitations... CarFax only shows what has been reported to it via insurance/state DMVs; if the car was from a place that doesn't require annual inspections (like the CA smog, etc), a previous owner may have bought the car with 40k miles on it, drove 40k the next two years (rolling it over), and drove another 35k before selling it. So you'd only have 3 years gap in Carfax and what looks like a car that went from 40k to 55k. > have mechanic check clutch - ask if it has rubber center. ask price to replace clutch. +1 to what Mr Noble says; having someone else do the clutch is likely going to run you $3k + > check timing belt. ask price to replace timing belt. And ask how the mechanic plans to tension the belt. Although a lot of guys use the "twist" method (basically, by feel) and have never had a problem, I wouldn't pay - or trust - a mechanic to do it if the mechanic plans to just measure the deflection. The Porsche tool 9201 for measuring belt tension is relatively rare (and something like $500- $900?), the Krikit ($25?) is, from what I've read, hard to learn to use accurately and get consistent measurements. I went the Arnnworx.com route, which can range from$100(?) to $250, roughly. Good luck with the 944! On Mar 21, 8:06 am, alordofch...@yahoo.com wrote: > Clodius wrote: > > I've got a Carfax report on the 83, which doesn't show any large [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Good luck with the 944! One thing. The 944 I'm looking at has an auto transmission, not manual, so I don't think I'll have much clutch trouble. Hopefully at least. Thanks again y'all find out from someone who has one if there are any tiptronic issues - I won't drive an automatic if I can avoid it, and generally having the tiptronic should lower the value of the car dramatically. re timing belt - 87 and later tension automatically after install, before that you need the tool or skill (I use the skill method, never had a problem) One thing. The 944 I'm looking at has an auto transmission, not manual, so I don't think I'll have much clutch trouble. Hopefully at least. Thanks again y'all SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > One thing. The 944 I'm looking at has an auto transmission, not > manual, so I don't think I'll have much clutch trouble. Hopefully at least. On Mar 22, 10:24 pm, "William Noble" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote: > find out from someone who has one if there are any tiptronic issues - Tiptronic first appeared in '89. > I won't drive an automatic if I can avoid it, and generally having the > tiptronic should lower the value of the car dramatically. Agreed, having an auto tranny greatly reduces the value of your '83 and I would avoid it if possible. Personally, I wouldn't consider it unless it were really cheap (under $2k) and in otherwise good condition and I also had a parts car to convert it to a 5 speed manual. Auto trannys in 944s are horrible things... you're looking at a 3- speed auto with _NO_ overdrive gear, at least in the early cars. Not sure if a 4th OD gear ever made it to later cars. I know some people that like their auto tranny 944s, but they are rare and usually only because the owner can't drive a stick. So what you'l be looking at is reduced MPG, higher RPMs for any given cruising speed, and additional engine noise when on those long Texas highways due to higher RPMs, and slightly increaased engine wear. Remember the people who post on these groups are generally those with problems. Most people have few problems and never post. However remember also that you are buying a 20 year old car so you cannot expect new car standards. I have had mine for 2 years 1987 944 147000 miles and all bills etc it has had major work in the past but none during my time of ownership. Alec > I'm in the market for a new car, after my old one was totaled (not my > fault), and I'm seriously considering one of two 944's available [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > help concerning the overall reliability of these cars would be > greatly, immensely appreciated. >What I'm wondering is the reliability and costs inherent in these >cars. One of them is an 83 944, with 55K miles, and what I've read >about it claims that it has full repair papers. The other I'm looking >at is an 86 with 90K, and no other great info besides pics. Price is >between 5 and 6 thousand on both. I know that Porsche made some significant changes to the dashboard/ driver's controls in the 85-1/2 model, and people seem to prefer those to the earlier style. I don't know what other differences you might see between the 83 and the 86. You'd want to study up on that and give both cars a spin, since the much lower mileage on the 83 is certainly tempting. As is the fact that that owner has records. The timing belt needs to be replaced every 30,000 miles. FWIW, I have an 86 turbo (951) that has 105,000 miles on it, and it hasn't needed much fixup. The ideal situation would be if you could wait for an 86 or later to come on the market that has better records. Patty > I'm in the market for a new car, after my old one was totaled (not my > fault), and I'm seriously considering one of two 944's available > locally. I'min Texas, so winter wear isn't really a concern for local cars. However, I suspect you're going to want a car with running AC :-) > What I'm wondering is the reliability and costs inherent in these cars. For a 22-25 year old car, they are very reliable.... provided that the required maintenance is done, including things you don't do on newer cars, such as cleaning grounds, replacing vacuum lines, etc. > One of them is an 83 944, with 55K miles, and what I've read > about it claims that it has full repair papers. It's a 5-digit odometer on the '83-85.2 cars. So, does it have 55k miles or 455k miles? I'd check that paperwork closely, and make sure there is maintenance records with corresponding dates and mileage. Although condition/maintenance is a bigger issue than mileage with these cars (some guys are at 350k miles with the original engine, clutch and tranny!), I'd be wary anytime someone misrepresented something about the car. > The other I'm looking at is an 86 with 90K, and no other great info besides pics. Price is > between 5 and 6 thousand on both. Price seems high to me for both, unless that '83 really has all that documentation (eg, timing belt changed every 3 years and only 6,000 more miles on the odometer each belt change). Clutch is the other big expensive thing. And if you are ever wanting new wheels, go with an '87 and up; they have a different offset with a wider range of available wheels. I'll point you to rennlist.com, pelican and paragon (oh yeah, Clark's garage) as other places for research. > I'm not very mechanically inclined, but willing to learn, and I don't > have a ton of money. Much as I love the 944, I wouldn't recommend it as someone's primary car unless they have flexibility (eg, an understanding boss, someone who can loan a car/give a ride for a week or two, etc) For $5k-6k, you can get a much newer car which will have fewer surprises. If you really want the 944 - and who doesn't ;-) wait and find one for about $3,500~$4k and keep the rest as reserve. > but from what I've seen > in all these Porsche forums I'm just a bit concerned that I'll > purchase it, and then a month later, even with detailed repairs, this > or that will blow and I'll be stuck with a $1500 repair bill that I can't pay. Tnen you know about the imporance of the PPI - pre-purchase inspection. You need to find someoone who is _really_ familiar with the cars who can identify potential trouble spots on the car you are considering purchasing. I was lucky, purchased an '86 about 3 years ago for $4,200 (second chance offer on eBay). Turned out the previous owner just installed a new clutch (paperwork) 10k miles before! Total maintenance to date, excluding oil and filters: Let's see, $20 or so for tools, $20 for synthetic transmission fluid, $30 or so for new headlignts. Oh, and i bought the full kit for belt tensioning from Arnnworx.com, roughly another $250 for those tools. I expect to do the belts this year, more for peace of mind than anything else (mileage/age of belts unknown, but I looked at them last year and they look very new) > Sorry if this comes off as overly pessemistic and cautious, Better safe than sorry. I'd recommend budgeting at least $100 a month in a separate "944 parts" fund for maintenance and repairs. It's really a very reliable car, if maintained, but when something does go, it can be expensive. If you make it 3 or 4 years without needing a big repair, you've got enough saved for another 944! > > I'm in the market for a new car, after my old one was totaled (not my > > fault), and I'm seriously considering one of two 944's available > > locally. I'min Texas, so winter wear isn't really a concern for local cars. > I'll point you to rennlist.com, Well, talk about a coincidence. I happened to run into this thread again on rennlist.com about a minute after I posted here; where a fella from Texas is considering a 944 for his next car and wants some info on the different years and what to look for! http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=417442 > > > I'm in the market for a new car, after my old one was totaled (not my > > > fault), and I'm seriously considering one of two 944's available [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=417442 I did see that while checking out renn last night, and thopught it was kind of funny. The advice in that thread helped me too though. Thanks all of y'all for the tips, and especially alordofch, a lot of what you said was very helpful. A few things in reply to stuff you mentioned. 1. Yes I do definitely want AC, but I can deal with missing it for a week here or there. Living in Texas will get you accustomed to the heat =P. 2. Hearing they're reliable really eases some headaches I've been having thinking about them. I realize they require more work than new cars, but if they are reliabile when maintained, then that's a load of weight off. 3. Just recently I've realized that they have 5 digit odo's rather than 6, so I bet that it's actually 155K. I am going to carfax it and get it mechanically inspected pre-purchase though. By the way, the 83 is the one I'm seriously considering now. 4. It will be my daily driver. The thing is though, that I'm in college, and on a pretty small campus. If it does break down then I can walk to class and etc. I just wouldn't be able to go out. So I won't be completely screwed if it breaks down. Again thanks a ton y'all! >3. Just recently I've realized that they have 5 digit odo's rather >than 6, so I bet that it's actually 155K. Just making sure you noticed that "alordofch" explained that the five-digit odometers were replaced with six-digit ones in later models. My 1986 has a six-digit odometer. Patty |
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