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Car Forum / Porsche / Porshe 944 / November 2003Getting it over with (944 V8)
Who would honestly replace a Porsche engine with something like this: http://www.caranddriver.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=43424&sessionID=0C7E6E59202 14792998DAA3162E71BE4 Devils, if you thought the quality was bad before...have a look! Well you could put it in a 968 and look what goes first. The engine or the gearbox with it's famous pinion problem. But putting a cayenne engine in a 944 would that be ok :) ? Paul T But putting a cayenne engine in a > 944 would that be ok :) ? That'd be interesting. Or better yet, put it in the 928. Actually Seber, that has been my argument all along...bastardization is not the sin, the sin is bastardizing with something of lower quality. It makes absolutely no sense. What always amazes me about the people who try to make the Chevy argument is that the most basic of lifes lessons are thrown out of the window. I can't really think of one instance where "You get what you pay for" does not fit. If it's cheaper, it's cheaper for a reason. A corner has been cut somewhere, a lesser grade of some material has been used somewhere, an older technology has been used somewhere saving development costs...it all adds up the same way...cheaper and always never better. As for the Pepper engine being installed in a "modern" 944/968 or 928, forget it. Porsche does not build cars to outperform the 911 and any of the above cars, modernized and packed with that V-8 turbo, would smoke one handily. > T > But putting a cayenne engine in a > > 944 would that be ok :) ? > > That'd be interesting. Or better yet, put it in the 928. > Actually Seber, that has been my argument all along...bastardization is not > the sin, the sin is bastardizing with something of lower quality. It makes > absolutely no sense. I agree. These people see a Porsche as being more expensive to maintain, and believe a Chevy V8 is the answer for more power, relaibility and lower maintence costs. What they don't bother to figure in is the fact that a GM motor with its cheaper components is going to break more than a Porsche engine, so while the Porsche may be more expensive per dealer visit, this is going to be nullified in the fact that a Porsche is going to need servicing less often than your average Chevy V8, so in the long run, they spend more! And in the process you lose the 50/50 distrobution, air con, power steering, excellent gas millage, and refinement (my 944 S-4 is more refined ya go slowthan any Chevrolet i've ever been in). >Plus, they all > What always amazes me about the people who try to make the Chevy >argument is > that the most basic of lifes lessons are thrown out of the window. I can't > really think of one instance where "You get what you pay for" does not fit. > If it's cheaper, it's cheaper for a reason. A corner has been cut somewhere, > a lesser grade of some material has been used somewhere, an older technology > has been used somewhere saving development costs...it all adds up the same > way...cheaper and always never better. Exactly, and this is why they always wish to talk about "bang for the buck" and raw performance numbers. Thats great if you want an uncivilized dragster for racing from stop light to stop light, but that is not what Porsches are built to do, and 99% of all Porsche owners don't buy their car for those reasons. I know you've said this before and it beats repeating, a Porsche is the complete package, so as soon as you swap in that small black V8, you take everything a Porsche is suppose to be and toss it out the window. It literally defeats the purpose of buying a 944. Another popular conversion is putting a LS-6 Corvette engine into the 3rd generation RX-7. Why not just make life easier and buy a Corvette? It obviously has the engine they want, the cheapness they are acustomed too and they can argue "bang for the buck" until the cows come home. I'm not a regular poster here, i've been lurking AAP for a few months now and their weak argument has grown tiresome. This used to be a great place to come to get information, but they have totally destoryed what used to be a great environment for Porsche owners to come and talk about their cars. Last but not least, they come into our group and then flame us for not kissing their a.s. That is their greatest weakness, people are willing to pay for quality,and that drives them crazy Porsche does not build cars to outperform the 911 and any of the > above cars, modernized and packed with that V-8 turbo, would smoke one > handily. Yeah, I know. However, the new 997 is rumored to have a parts bin dash with the new Pepper. Gauges for sure that I know of, center counsel perhaps and other little details. They even flirted with the idea of sticking the V8 in the 997, but I think that quickly got ruled out. > > T > > But putting a cayenne engine in a > > > 944 would that be ok :) ? > > > > That'd be interesting. Or better yet, put it in the 928. <These people see a Porsche as being more expensive to maintain> Seber, I can add even more to this fallicy also. At work, I have a co-worker who has a 1995 C-4 Corvette. He is a cool guy and we talk cars all of the time. My power steering rack has been leaking since the day I got my 944S2. The previous owner stored it in an unheated hangar from October to May every year and the seals naturally shrunk. I just got it replaced last month. Total for a new rack (not rebuilt or remanufactured), new boots, alignment, and inspection of A-arm and tie rod ends(which all were perfect) set me back exactly $1305.91. His '95 Vette developed a steering rack problem and had to be replaced. Cost ? A shade over $1600.00. My Porsche was $300.00 less. To add, the bad rack caused his pump to crap out and a $150.00 pump was in order. Further inspection found a water pump leak and this leak damaged this optical ignition that Chevy made for their Vettes of that era. Apparently this water leak/optical problem is quite common and being out of warranty, came out of pocket. When all was said and done his '95 "Cheap" Vette cost him $3600.00 and my "Expensive" Porsche cost me $1305.00. I still have my original water pump, PS pump and have no ignition problems. Define cheap vs. expensive again. > > Actually Seber, that has been my argument all along...bastardization is > not [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > > > > > That'd be interesting. Or better yet, put it in the 928. > My power steering rack has been leaking since the day I got my 944S2. The > previous owner stored it in an unheated hangar from October to May every > year and the seals naturally shrunk. I just got it replaced last month. > Total for a new rack (not rebuilt or remanufactured), new boots, alignment, > and inspection of A-arm and tie rod ends(which all were perfect) set me back > exactly $1305.91. That seems very resonable. Did you take your ca to the dealer or a independent shop for the repairs? > His '95 Vette developed a steering rack problem and had to be replaced. Cost > ? A shade over $1600.00. My Porsche was $300.00 less. To add, the bad rack [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > leak/optical problem is quite common and being out of warranty, came out of > pocket. When all was said and done his '95 "Cheap" Vette cost him $3600.00 Devs, I have a similar story. About two years ago my neighbor found a 87 C4 in a bargin lot for a great price (forget what it was). Out of impulse, he drove it home that day without any pre-purchase inspections. I helped him do a compression check and it was only running on seven of its eight cylinders and four other cylinders had very very low compression readings, the engine was tired. After riding in my 944 with 101,000 miles and seeing how strong the motor was, he made the assumption the same would be true of the Corvette (with only 85,000 miles). After driving the Vette for about six months with many dealer visits, the transmission failed and he threw his hands up and sold the car for a complete loss. Month later he rolls up in a 1985 928S. The first thing he said to me was "I should of spent a little more money and got a nice car like this to begin with". The problem we have around here is the trolls have no real world Porsche knowledge, they think just because their Ford and Chevy's only last for 100,000 miles that the same applies to our cars. The common redneck train of thought goes something along these lines: "If Chevy can't do that then theres no way some crappy foreign car can!" The two most common questions I get with my 944 (by the average Joe Nobody) are 1. That looks great, you must have restored it!? and 2. Has the engine been rebuilt? They simply don't understand that cars cost more for a reason and you get what you pay for. When I tell them its all orignal, including the engine that has 101,000 miles and has less than 2% leakdown in each cylinder, they stand there looking absolutely dumbfounded. Then I explain how porsche zinc coated the bodies making them virtually rust free and the motor is designed to go 250,000 miles. Many people think we are snobs because we spout how much better our cars are and how much longer they last. I'm not a snob, I enjoy talking to people about my car when they express interest, it's a chance to dispel some stereotypes that all exotic-car owners have had to deal with. > Define cheap vs. expensive again. > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > > > > > > > That'd be interesting. Or better yet, put it in the 928. I know what you are talking about brother... As for my steering rack, I took it to an indepedant. I could have bought a rebuilt rack and saved $400.00, but what the hell, only the best for my baby. As for your Vette story...so true. The Chevy 350 has been a workhorse for years, but it is, after all, old technology. Many more moving parts and much more prone to wear. When I owned my '84 944, I had a leakdown test done at 156K. My numbers were very similar to yours. I sold it at 186K and it is still going strong in Las Vegas at over 200K. As for the trolls...you are probably correct. I am as American proud as they come, but, can also see our shortcomings also. To think that America has remained on top of the automotive world since it's inception is just ludicrous. The Japanese and Europeans have long since passed us and we are playing a game of catch up, no doubt. The typical troll has one criteria..."I can go faster than you for cheaper" to which I say great, you can also eat more at McDonalds for less, but I'll spend the extra dollars for a good steak. Here is a link to my S2 : http://www.dimmer.net/hosted/944central/s/d.asp The biggest laugh I get from the trolls is (which lends proof to your theory) is that they descibe my 944 and others 944 as "worn" or "clapped out" only because their American iron or Japanese iron has long since given up the ghost. Like you say, they think their car is the measuring stick, when it couldn't be anymore opposite. Look at my car...does it look "clapped out" to you? > > My power steering rack has been leaking since the day I got my 944S2. The > > previous owner stored it in an unheated hangar from October to May every [quoted text clipped - 146 lines] > > > > > > > > > > That'd be interesting. Or better yet, put it in the 928. You truly are a lucky man...944S2 Cab, those are rare cars. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they only turned out around 700 models like that? Not only does it not looked "clapped out" but I'd bet the farm it turns more heads than a C5. Probably will be worth more in a year or two as well, the way they falling through the floor. As for your 84 Porsche, mighty impressive. Lots of cars may make it to that point, but when you consider the Porsche has a high performance engine that is usually driven hard, something must be well engineered. My car is getting ready to turn over 102k and it is very strong, burns no oil and has perfect oil pressure. I had a strange knocking sound that lasted for about a month when the engine was cold only, but one day it simply vanished. Other than that, its the most reliable car I've had. That statement for some reason seems to bring out the troll in people. I can't tell you how many times after saying that people come back telling me how much more reliable Japanese cars are. I don't know if you've owned Japanese, but they are much like American; good for 10 years and after that the pieces are falling off left and right. I just sold a money pit supra that I used as a winter beater. In the three years I had it, I put more money into repairs than I paid for the car. Right now I'm looking for a BMW 325xi for the snow, won't make the Japanese mistake again. I couldn't agree with you more on your American car views. They are slowly starting to catch up, but only because Europe has come to their rescue. Europe is basically farming out their engineers to come amend the American car line, look at the new Harley V-ROD with its Porsche made engine! The new Chrysler models are actually worth taking a look at, thanks to Mercedes Benz. What disgusts me is how these American companies incorporate German engineering into their cars and then get excited like its "all new". If American cars were wonderful, European cars wouldn't be the benchmark that they are right now. As stated it Motor Trend not long ago, the GM engineers are trying to bring the Corvette up to its German counterparts quality without raising the price up. I'm sure I don't need to tell you any of this though :) Basically we have to just start ignoring these trolls, I think we both know its their feelings of inadequacy that leads them to our group to help them feel better about their automotive decision. We should take this as a compliment because it proves they still have to measure up to us. You know the saying my friend, ignore it and it will go away. > I know what you are talking about brother... > [quoted text clipped - 202 lines] > > > > > > > > > > > > That'd be interesting. Or better yet, put it in the 928. |
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