Interesting, both of my sensors have magnets in them. They are Hall
Effect sensors. One is activated by a pin on the flywheel and the
other by the teeth on the ring gear. Models later than 84 may use
another system. Hall effect from the distributor. Interesting!!!
ok, just to be sure we are talking about the same thing - a hall effect
sensor uses a semiconductor material, and the magnetic field changes
the current flow through the semiconductor. Most are monolithic
circuits, and include an amplifer and typically a schmidt trigger to
provide a logic output. A hall effect sensor itself will never have a
magnet as part of the sensor - you find these sensors in your hard
drive and floppy drive motors (on all the newer drives). According to
my service manual, these sensors are coils of wire (and I've taken one
apart when I mooshed it doing something stupid, so I know that it's
really a coil of wire.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just accurate. you may well have a
coil of wire with a magnet - then when a piece of iron passes nearby
(5mm if you remember the spec), it will change the coupled field
through the coil and induce a current/voltage which the DME can detect.
You can read about hall effect here:
http://www.answers.com/topic/hall-effect
quoting, it says:
The Hall effect refers to the potential difference (Hall voltage) on
opposite sides of a thin sheet of conducting or semiconducting material
in the form of a 'Hall bar' or a van der Pauw element through which an
electric current is flowing, created by a magnetic field applied
perpendicular to the Hall element. The ratio of the voltage created to
the amount of current is known as the Hall resistance, and is a
characteristic of the material in the element. Dr. Edwin Hall
discovered this effect in 1879.
Analysis
The Hall effect comes about due to the nature of the current flow in
the conductor. Current consists of many small charge-carrying
"particles" (typically electrons) which see a force due to the magnetic
field. Some of these charge elements end up forced to the sides of the
conductors, where they create a pool of net charge. This is only
notable in larger conductors where the separation between the two sides
is large enough.
One important feature of the Hall effect is that it differentiates
between positive charges moving in one direction and negative charges
moving in the opposite. The Hall effect offered the first real proof
that electric currents in metals are carried by moving electrons, not
by protons. Interestingly enough, the Hall effect also showed that in
some substances (especially semiconductors), it is more appropriate to
think of the current as positive "holes" moving rather than negative
electrons.
darthpup - 19 Sep 2005 13:49 GMT
Again, the sensors on the 84 944 are Hall Effect devices. They are
simply a magnet surrounded by a coil. They produce an emf when
activated by the passage of a ferrous object intersecting the magnetic
flux from the magnet. They produce a very small amount of current,
thus the requirement to use an oscilloscope. Could be Porsche changed
the design on later models. I do know they increased the number of
teeth on the ring gear and later used a separate wheel parallel to the
ring gear for the speed sensor to increase timing accuracy. May have
added a magnet to the flywheel and used a simple coil pickup for the
reference sensor????
william_b_noble - 20 Sep 2005 06:31 GMT
ok, I give up. call it what you want. Most folks call a coil of wire
with or without a magnet, when used this way "inductive pickup", and
reserve the word hall effect for the solid state device. That's how I
use the phrases, that's how Porsche uses the phrase "hall effect"
The PET 6 catalog for the 84 944 calls the sensor "impuse sender", and
the item inside the distributor (part number 944-606-170-01
"Hall-Sender" I just checked this. What exactly is it that makes you
think this is a hall effect device?
If you would like to consider the issue, refer to this page, that
explains "inductive pickup" and "hall effect sensor"
http://www.picotech.com/auto/tutorials/trigger-signals.html
If you prefer your current usage, please always include the phrase
about a coil of wire so we are sure what you are talking about.
darthpup - 20 Sep 2005 12:01 GMT
The physical principle involved defines the technology being used.
Some hall effect sensors have a solid state integrated circuit built in
to amplify the small emf generated by the hall effect. Not all hall
effect sensors are the same or named identically. This seems to be a
source of confusion. On the 84 944 there is simply a coil surrounding
a magnet. Oh, yes, there are hall effect sensors which use the
properties of semiconduction to sense the emf. Your long quote from
Wikepedia was interesting.
darthpup - 21 Sep 2005 13:41 GMT
Also, WBN exactly what do you think this part does on the 84 944 na?
Porsche part number 944-606-170-01 .
william_b_noble - 22 Sep 2005 07:45 GMT
I guess I have no idea what that part does, my PET-6 says "not found" when I
enter that number in the part # search.
I do find 944 606 115 00 "impulse sender" - there are two of them
> Also, WBN exactly what do you think this part does on the 84 944 na?
> Porsche part number 944-606-170-01 .
darthpup - 22 Sep 2005 13:37 GMT
Again, where is this sensor located on the distributor that you allude
to. The part number is irrelevant.
Burleigh - 23 Sep 2005 00:15 GMT
ok, I tested the resistance in the refewrence sensors, and the resistance
is good. I have access to a scope (Snap-on Vantage MT 2400). Can you
tall me how to test the sensors? Both reference sensors have pigtail wires
that come up to a bracket near the firewall. I un plugged both of them to
inspect the connectors, all 3 pins on both plugs are fine.
thanks
darthpup - 23 Sep 2005 01:27 GMT
Go over to www.clarks-garage.com and read the section on sensors. There
are diagrams and pictures along with text to describe test points. You
should see about two volts peak to peak when you crank the engine.
Also, Clark makes a note which may be helpful that says when you crank
the engine with starter and you see the tach move then you probably do
not have a problem with the speed sensor.
william_b_noble - 23 Sep 2005 04:42 GMT
if you were to DL the porsche service manual, you will find scope traces for
these in the DME diagnostic section
> ok, I tested the resistance in the refewrence sensors, and the resistance
> is good. I have access to a scope (Snap-on Vantage MT 2400). Can you
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> inspect the connectors, all 3 pins on both plugs are fine.
> thanks