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Car Forum / Porsche / Porshe 944 / April 2006looking for a shop...
Hi all, looking for a recommendation for a shop that is willing to troubleshoot a vibration problem I'm having with my car and '88 Porsche 944 - I've taken it to both a Porsche specialty shop in Annapolis and a garage with some pretty significant name recognition in Seabrook, both shops seem to think that I'm smoking crack and that there is no problem with my car, however when I hit about 75-80 MPH there is a serious vibration that is enough to blur the inside rearview mirror. I've had bolts tightened, new tires, an alignment done, and while the car drives better than it ever has since I first got it a couple years ago the vibration remains and *that* definitely wasn't there! The first shop just said they didn't feel the vibration; the second actually said that they wouldn't test drive the car above the posted speed limit so they weren't able to reproduce the problem (although with the new tires and good balance job, I can actually now feel it at speeds as low as 40 MPH although it is very faint at that speed.) They actually politely suggested that I would need to take the car elsewhere to a shop with a dyno so that the issue could be reproduced for the mechanic, but they were unwilling/unable to recommend a specific shop. I suspect either a bent stub axle, bent rim, or bad rear wheel bearing but I don't have the time or the tools to go any farther myself (of course, you need a special tool to replace the rear wheel bearing, otherwise you have to R&R the trailing arm and take it in to a machine shop to have it pressed in.) If anyone has any recommendations please post back; I haven't driven this car in 3-4 months as someone hit it while it was parked in front of my house and I've been shuttling it from shop to shop trying to get this vibration issue fixed ever since getting it back from the body shop. At this point I've sunk about $1500 of my own money into it (for additional bodywork not related to the incident and chasing this vibration issue) and I still don't have confidence in the car, and I'm starting to become a little frustrated. I live in Bowie, MD so shops close to there would be best; however if I can get this fixed I'm willing to take it a good distance. thanks! nate If you have never replaced the wheel bearings that is probably what is causing the high speed vibration. They are not expensive. I once had the same problem. 84 944 NA > If you have never replaced the wheel bearings that is probably what is > causing the high speed vibration. They are not expensive. I once had > the same problem. > > 84 944 NA Define "not expensive..." I just called the Porsche place this afternoon to ask out of curiosity how much it would cost to have both wheel bearings replaced, they said over $900?!?!?!?! Is this a nice way of saying that they don't want my business anymore? How much are the rest of you paying? I thought that these were very similar to FWD VW bearings, I don't remember paying that much when one went bad on my 16V GTI... nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel This is a six hour job for all four wheels with parts cost of around two hundred dollars. Should cost you about four to five hundred. Yes they are VW bearings. speaking of looking for a shop - what is a good place in the west LA area to diagnose a very rough idle on an 87S? I have confirmed low vacuum but can find no leaks, fuel press is high (due to low vac, reg works), changed seals on inectors, changed intake manifold gasket, searched for leaks elsewhre, put new o-ring on oil filler, changed air flow sensor, changed plugs, wires, rotor, dist cap - car runs fine, but there this amazingly rough idle. >This is a six hour job for all four wheels with parts cost of around >two hundred dollars. >Should cost you about four to five hundred. Yes they are VW bearings. Bill www.wbnoble.com to contact me, do not reply to this message, instead correct this address and use it will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com >I just called the Porsche place this afternoon to ask out of curiosity >how much it would cost to have both wheel bearings replaced, they said >over $900?!?!?!?! Is this a nice way of saying that they don't want my >business anymore? I think that's just a nice way of pointing out that you own a Porsche. Paying high prices for maintenence is all part of the package. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. >>I just called the Porsche place this afternoon to ask out of curiosity >>how much it would cost to have both wheel bearings replaced, they said [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Porsche. Paying high prices for maintenence is all part of the > package. Shouldn't be. The bearings aren't but a hundred or so each, and there's a tool available to do R&R without trailing arm removal. (that's why I took it to the shop; that and I don't have the dial gauges or v-blocks to check the stub axle for true.) I could buy the tool and do it myself for less, had I the time. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel Bearings for one hundred dollars each. What planet are you on? > Bearings for one hundred dollars each. What planet are you on? Pelican has them for $40 + shipping, so even with shop markup they should come in under $100 I'd think. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel Just as an off shot--- have you had the wheels balanced lately? Since this is speed specific that could be the problem. You could have thrown a balance weight. Or have you had the wheels off and forgotten to tightened one of the wheels? Both of these could have this effect. Good luck Brian Moore > >>I just called the Porsche place this afternoon to ask out of curiosity > >>how much it would cost to have both wheel bearings replaced, they said [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > nate Tires have a shape memory if made with synthetic chords. In cold weather or when setting for long periods of time (weeks) will develop a flat spot which can be amplified by uneven wear when first starting out. Check tires for perfect round or for flat spot. And also have the wheels balanced by an expert shop. Also, I threw my wheels out of balance very badly once by adding self sealing liquid to rear tires. If you still can't find the problem get in touch with Pete Van der Vate here: http://www.precisionimportservice.com/ ( Near Fairfax, VA} He is a seasoned race car driver, a champion and a really very expert mechanic. He wont't squeal about driving over the speed limit to test your car. How many miles on the car? You actually do not need to removed the trailing arms as the manual says. I believe Clarks Garage has the procedure. I did mine in my garage without removing the arms. Kind of a pain, but I have done harder things. I could not tell if my problem was CV joints or bearings, so I replaced them both and cured the problem. Items needed to replace the bearings: * 3/4" breaker bar and cheater bar ( Axle nut torque is 368 ft lbs) * Puller made of 3/4" all thread and bushings or plates * Torch * Dry Ice (a must to put the new bearings in with) * A very large torque wrench > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > nate > How many miles on the car? About 130K; this is a guesstimate though as the odo was not working the whole time the PO had the car (I rolled it forward about 10K when I repaired it as he said he thought that's about how many miles he put on the car) > You actually do not need to removed the trailing arms as the manual says. I > believe Clarks Garage has the procedure. I did mine in my garage without [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > * Dry Ice (a must to put the new bearings in with) > * A very large torque wrench I'd rather just pay someone to do it, but I can't seem to find a shop who thinks there is a problem! Most of the driving I do in this car is fast highway driving in the 65-80 MPH range; right where the problem is. I don't want to destroy my car prematurely because of whatever the issue is! I'm thinking of taking it to either Currie's or Volkswerks (if I can convince Ted to work on a Porsche... he's an odd sort, but he does do good work) any comments or other recommendations? Also maybe Auto International in Annapolis, even though it's out of the way. Is the puller for the rear bearings the same as that for an A1/A2 chassis VW? If so I may invest in it, since my fiancee has a Corrado G60 and my parents have two VWs as well. nate >>Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> >>nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel You might try removing, cleaning and repacking the CV joints. This is easy and may cure your problem. If not then you know its the bearings. > You might try removing, cleaning and repacking the CV joints. This is > easy and may cure your problem. If not then you know its the bearings. All four CV joints are new within the last year... :/ I had one go out on me last Xmas eve at about 2 AM; once I'd gotten some sleep I spent a nice (cold) couple hours turning the axle around backwards until a new one could be ordered. Of course these things only happen right before a holiday when all the usual parts channels are closed... good thing I had a triple square tool in my toolbox left over from my days of owning old beater Volkswagens. Even better that it was at my little toolbox at home and not in my big roll cabinet in my friend's garage 20 miles away. Anyway, I got the replacement axle from Pelican as soon as I could, and ordered another one for the other side from raxles.com a month or so later as I figured that the CVs would all be about equally worn. (while I like Pelican, raxles.com is much less expensive, and since I didn't need this one in a hurry I had the luxury of shopping around.) I replaced the raxles one again when this whole saga started a month or so ago as the driver's outer had a cracked boot, and they warrantied the axle. (very nice people to deal with) At the same time I noticed all the bolts on that CV were slightly loose while all the others remained tight. I was hoping that the cracked boot and loose bolts were a sign that I'd gotten a defective CV joint but the fact that the vibration remains leads me to believe that that was a symptom of a vibration in that corner not the cause of it. (or raxles uses shite CVs, and I've gotten two bad ones in a row... they are supposed to be brand new, however.) I do still have one axle with known good CVs on it however, as I didn't need to turn in a core for the axle I bought from Pelican. I suppose I *could* try it on the driver's side, but I don't really think that's the problem. I'm a bit of a packrat; I saved it "just in case." (I drive my girlfriend nuts with car parts...) Oddly enough, this was the other time that the Porsche shop let me down... I'd had a slight vibration/occasional click leading up to the CV failure (I got home, but it was very noisy, not at all smooth, and I was keeping my fingers crossed the whole way that I'd actually make it before the joint let go completely. Of course I was doing night work at a government site about 20 miles from my house... this was before I got a new job with a company car so it was my daily transportation at that point) and I'd dropped the car off to them saying "I think I have a CV joint going bad, can you find which one it is and fix it please" and just as they did a couple weeks ago they assured me that there was no problem and I should just keep driving the car and not worry about it. Which, of course, leads me to believe that whoever they put on the 944s is not good at all with NVH type issues... and that I should listen to my gut when it tells me that there is something wrong with my car... this is the shop that quoted me $900 for the rear bearings anyway so I won't be going back at least for this issue... nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
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