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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / July 2005Top modifications to a tent trailer
We just got back from 5 days at Jalama Beach, a remote beach campground just south of Vandenburg AFB, CA. (run by Santa Barbara County Parks) Anyway... I had lots of time to look and dream of modifications. We have a 2001 Coleman Santa Fe CP, towed by a 2004 Honda Pilot. I am hoping some of you have suggestions... What are your most successful improvements to your tent trailer? 1. Lighting I replaced all the overhead lights with LEDs, to lower my electical useage. They just aren't bright enough. Should I get some 12 volt fluorescents? 2. Power I just bought a new deep cycle battery. I want to be able to dry camp for at least a week. Should I be looking at a solar recharging system to extend my capacity? 3. Storage I would love to hear how people make the best use of the storage space. For example, there is a cabintet on the right hand side of the refrigerator. It seems you can't put much in it because the swing galley needs room to operate when you lower it. What do others do? Has anyone built in a wine rack? A clothes line? 4. Outside I cook almost all meals outside. I use a card table next to the outside stove with plastic bins for storabe. I see all these cool folding camp kitchens, but most are too big for my needs. Does anyone have a recommendation? I look forward to hearing what you all do to make the most of a great tent trailer! Allen Lillie 2001 Coleman Santa Fe CP 2004 Honda Pilot Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > We just got back from 5 days at Jalama Beach, a remote beach campground > just south of Vandenburg AFB, CA. (run by Santa Barbara County Parks) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > useage. They just aren't bright enough. Should I get some > 12 volt fluorescents? Not all LED's are created equal. You might try a different brand. It is something I have considered doing (replacing incandescent with LED), but not gotten around to. I have a tiny flashlight (doubles as a key chain) that I got in Hong Kong for $1, and it'll almost blind you if you shine it in your eyes. Most of the time, we don't use much in the way of lighting. We're up with the sun, and our tired old bodies want to go to sleep as it gets dark. If we end up staying up playing cards or something, we've been known to use a fluorescent 6 volt portable lantern for light. > 2. Power > I just bought a new deep cycle battery. I want to be able to dry > camp for at least a week. Should I be looking at a solar > recharging system to extend my capacity? I looked into those, and the camp host at one of our favorite sites uses one to stay the entire season. They are not cheap, but cheaper than a Honda generator, and will not be frowned upon by your neighbors as it's "running". :) I have gotten some flack about it here, but what I do to extend is hook up a pair of jumper cables from the running tow vehicle to the trailer battery every other day for 20-30 minutes. Seems to work just fine, the flack I've gotten is about how good this is for the battery. > 3. Storage > I would love to hear how people make the best use of the storage > space. For example, there is a cabintet on the right hand side of the > refrigerator. It seems you can't put much in it because the swing > galley needs room to operate when you lower it. What do others do? > Has anyone built in a wine rack? A clothes line? One of the things about my spouse that both bugs the heck out of me, and I love her for is *every* time we take the "little house" out, she spends times arranging/rearranging and making lists of things that we seldom use, and that she thinks would be helpful to have. Plastic totes work great to keep things together and dry, and can be set out in the screen room, or under the bunk ends. Never built a wine rack, but have nylon rope we use to tie around convenient trees for a clothes line. > 4. Outside > I cook almost all meals outside. I use a card table next to the > outside stove with plastic bins for storabe. I see all these cool > folding camp kitchens, but most are too big for my needs. Does anyone > have a recommendation? We just got a roll-up table from Cabelas made by Slumberjack that we think will fit *our* needs well. Cabelas doesn't seem to have them anymore, so here is the link to slumberjack table: http://www.slumberjack.com/product_list.asp?category_id=9GA4QP4UTJAXJEGE2SG9QCIYD2 Or here is a selection of tables, one of which may work better for you: http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/common/search/search-results1.jhtml?hasJS=true&Sea rchTypeOrArea=0&QueryText=camp%20table&_requestid=6875&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=m ode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=camp+table&noImage=0 Karl & Angela '96 Taos '02 Durango We cook outside most of the time, using the outside stove hanging on the wall. We have a 12' awning and, for longer trips, set up the screen room that attaches to it. That limits the space available. We have a 2' x 3' aluminum-top table that works well for our needs. The table is listed in the link provided by another respondent. The layout of the space under the awning makes the table fit to the right of the outside stove, within the confines of the screen room. Our 60 lb boxer's bed fits underneath, so he's not underfoot. We also have one of those 4-seat folding picnic tables for eating in the screen room. (Bugs are a consideration in Florida.) It fits in the corner diagonally opposite the camper door. Whoever's cooking can us it for extra surface area, but it's plastic, so you have to be careful what you put on it. Access is slightly cramped when the screen is up but we just pull it out slightly from the corner when about to sit down. There are only 4 people in our family, making it practical. Be aware that the table top under the aluminum surface is only masonite so, if it gets wet, it will become papier mache. When packing up, we put the folded aluminum table inside on the closed dinette set, along with the folding picnic table.  SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL '00 Coleman Mesa/'99 Chevy Astro 4. Outside I cook almost all meals outside. I use a card table next to the outside stove with plastic bins for storabe. I see all these cool folding camp kitchens, but most are too big for my needs. Does anyone have a recommendation? Get a second battery and be done with it. john In doing some reading on the internet, flourescents actually use less energy per light output than LED's. LED's tend to work best in places where light is concentrated in one bright spot, such as a flaslight. Take a look at http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_lighting.html for more info on this. Wesley 1. Lighting I replaced all the overhead lights with LEDs, to lower my electical useage. They just aren't bright enough. Should I get some 12 volt fluorescents? Without having gone to the link you included, I believe fluorescents use a lot of power at start up. After that, maintaining it is relatively lower in consumption. The point is, if the light is on consistently, fluorescent will likely consume less power than LED or incandescent. If the light is on intermittently, or for a short time, fluorescent may not be the most efficient. > In doing some reading on the internet, flourescents actually use less > energy > per light output than LED's. LED's tend to work best in places where > light > is concentrated in one bright spot, such as a flaslight. Take a look at > http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_lighting.html for more info on this. > Without having gone to the link you included, I believe fluorescents use a > lot of power at start up. After that, maintaining it is relatively lower in > consumption. The point is, if the light is on consistently, fluorescent will > likely consume less power than LED or incandescent. If the light is on > intermittently, or for a short time, fluorescent may not be the most > efficient. I agree. Waaay back in the days when I was learning such electrical things, one of them was the efficiency and foibles of fluorescent lighting. I assume some of the following "facts" (note quotation marks) have changed with improved technology and my faded memory. - A fluorescent lamp, given a clean, stable and uninterrupted power supply, will last in excess of 10,000 hours. - The power consumed to START a fluorescent lamp is enough to run that same lamp for 2-3 hours. - Each startup of a fluorescent lamp reduces its life by 10 hours. - A fluorescent lamp produces about 80% light, the rest is heat. Compare that to an incandescent lamp: They last about 750-1000 hours and are typically about 20% efficient. Given that, an incandescent lamp is a FAR better HEATER than a light source. Fluorescent lamps in high-traffic areas: If you will return to that room within a couple of hours, it actually costs LESS to leave the lights ON. Doing so will consume less energy and prolong the life of the lamps. I dry camp infrequently enough and RV fluorescent fixtures are expensive enough that I have yet to try one. FWIW, I have heard ANECDOTAL accounts that they are not very reliable. :) JR >> Without having gone to the link you included, I believe fluorescents use >> a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I agree. We had the two lights in our popup replaced with flourecent. I cannot remember how much we spent, but it was about $60 each, and that included installation (the service guy even added the jacks that were part of the original fixtures). We have been very pleased. Much better light than the original fixtures - though it does take a couple of minutes to get that bright. I asked my husband about the energy needed to start up flourescents and he said it was based on old technology - back when these things had magnetic ballasts. I asked him if he was sure and he said "I can prove it - if it took that much energy to fire up the lights, if one was turned and you turned on the 2nd one you would see a major dip in light from the first one, and that doesnt happen." He is right. When we turn on the heater, we do get a short dip in the light. When we turn on the 2nd light, there is no change in the first. Laura Modern electronic ballasts greatly reduce start-up power requirements of fluorescent bulbs, as well as eliminating flicker and hum, and increasing efficiency even more. [Compact Fluorescent fixtures may or may not have electronic ballasts, and it is hard to find out whether they do or not.] Start-up efficiency is now such that one should turn off a fluorescent fixture if one is going to be out of a room for more than just a few minutes. The down-side to all fluorescent bulbs is their mercury content (although greatly reduced in some modern designs). Because of the mercury, fluorescent bulbs are regarded by many communities as hazardous waste, and should not be put out in regular trash. [Also, lamp ballasts made before about 1980 contain PCB's, also a hazardous waste.] There are a few companies which recycle the mercury in the bulbs, but they generally accept bulbs in bulk from large businesses only. The average consumer has trouble legally getting rid of old fluorescent bulbs. If you live in a smaller community with its own dump, there may be a special place to put fluorescent bulbs for recycling. There are places to which you can send bulbs for recycling, but the price is very high (see, for example, www.bulbs.com). If you work for a business, ask the janitor how he (legally ) gets rid of fluorescent bulbs, and, if legal, you may be able to recycle old bulbs through your company. <snip> > - The power consumed to START a fluorescent lamp is enough to run that > same > lamp for 2-3 hours. This may have been true at one time, but it's closer to 5 minutes today. One still should not be frequently turning fluorescents on and off because of the significantly reduced life. Austin > - The power consumed to START a fluorescent lamp is enough to run that same > lamp for 2-3 hours. Using 3-hours as the starting usage, the break even point for FL energy use VS incandescent is 4 minutes(.25x+3=4x). If you are using incandescents for more than an average of 4 minutes per use, consider FL. SignatureJohn & Sue '04 GMC Safari '99 Starcraft Starflyer (Shuttlecraft) Then there is KISS . Keep It Starkly Simple. Use a 12 volt dc compact flourescent bulb. Hit your auto parts store for a 12v"trouble light" with large alligator clamps or lighter socket plugs. Relamp with a 12 volt dc "cfl" These look just like their 110 v cousins but run directly from car batteries. At impressive low drains. It will run cool enough to be mounted almost anywhere needed. Examples as - http://www.nolico.com/saveenergy/12_volt_marine_cfl.htm or http://www.realgoods.com/renew/shop/product.cfm/dp/3000/sd/3001/ts/3033509 Fresh Googling may beat those prices . Second best but less mail order hassle is standard CFL bulbs powered from a cheap inverter.Secret often overlooked is sizing inverter to be loaded to 80~95 % of rated constant output. That zone is the most efficient for many inverters. In practice I have used the 25 w one piece lighter socket style inverters with 2 of the 11 w 110 v cfl's No draw measures attempted but all stayed amazingly cool for the 2 hours average runtime. And the car started all 6 or so times I needed to use that lashup. YMMV of course. And some compulsive computation critics will quibble at the double conversion losses. Or the dismal efficiency of cheaper cfl's compared to pricey ones. But after pricing the rv designed fixtures and their short tube lifetimes- the CFL tricks may convert more folks . Either 12 or 110. Picking out fixtures gets easier too. the "Retro" trip of a yard sale pole lamp fitted with these magic bulbs and bungie corded into a handy space is a memory maker. Recently I found 7 w 110 v cfl bulbs at a dollar store! Claimed to equal a 40 w bulb. 2 of these easily rendered light output hard to tell from a standard 75 w "Reveal" bulb formerly in our laundry room The dividends from cheap 110 v cfl's inverter driven are easy replacement and hassle free use on shore power.NO converter hum! Unplug from inverter and plug into shore power- lights go on . We also have made up some light boards of simple porcelain old school lamp sockets "Keyless Lampholder" on 2x4's. On sale prices for ballpark 20 w in claimed as 100 replacement hover near 3-5 bucks with rare steals of 2-4 for larger sizes. A light board with 14 of the 20 w cfl's can run on the cheap 300 w inverter- For a major battery drain that is. But for an assembly area light it cannot be easily matched by any non combustion lantern. We "splashproofed " the cfl's with cut down 2 liter soda bottles- I may put pics on my campground site . The overarching rule is why reinvent the wheel. A screw it in and fiat lux answer works best by my logic . Oren Beck www.campdownunder.com "Camping is a real family value" > We just got back from 5 days at Jalama Beach, a remote beach > campground just south of Vandenburg AFB, CA. (run by Santa Barbara [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > hoping some of you have suggestions... What are your most successful > improvements to your tent trailer? We tow a Jayco Eagle 10UD with a Dodge Grand Caravan. We often will add our Saturn LW200 Wagon in the mix to carry additional people and supplies. We almost exclusively dry-camp; 4-5 days at a time. > 1. Lighting > I replaced all the overhead lights with LEDs, to lower my > electical > useage. They just aren't bright enough. Should I get some > 12 volt fluorescents? I too have thought about replacing the 12v 0verheads. Not only do they use a lot fo juice but they get aweful warm. In reality though I don't let anyone use the overheads and instead use battery powered lanterns, or cheap-o "tap-lights". The AA-powered portable lights and c-cell or D-cell lanterns provide weeks worth of light -- enough to eat or read by easily. > 2. Power > I just bought a new deep cycle battery. I want to be able to dry > camp > for at least a week. Should I be looking at a solar > recharging system to extend my capacity? Save your deep-cycle battery use for the important stuff --- running the blower on your heater! For awhile I carried two deep cycle batteries, one attached and the second in my tow vehicle kept charged whenever we drove it around (yes it was vented). If the trailer battery got too low I would switch them around and "charge up the original" while using the spare. Our last few 4-5 day trips didn't require this, so I just carry a battery booster for emergencies now. A solar charger will be pretty expensive, while the generator will be noisy. What do you need the electrical power for? How much over your current capacity are you now? As I said we pretty much only run the blower on the furnace, and that would be for maybe 20-30 minutes per morning. Spaced over the week (and in 30-degree temps), I can easily do this for 4 mornings. Just having a second battery to switch to would get me another four days and I could charge them both when i get home. Less than $80! > 3. Storage > I would love to hear how people make the best use of the storage [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > galley needs room to operate when you lower it. What do others do? > Has anyone built in a wine rack? A clothes line? We sometimes hang clothes inside, but not to dry - keep the moisture outside. The easiest way to rig a line inside the trailer is between the bunks ends. Buckets/bins and baskets are your friend for storage. I tried building fancy storage in the cupboards of our other camper; ended up ripping them out and choking on the amazing AMOUNT OF CRAP we had stored in there. Remember all that storage space is gonna hold stuff you have to haul around with you. As for a wine rack, nothing wrong with a milk crate on it's side with horizontals across the top tohold the bottoms of the bottles, cork end through the "bottom". > 4. Outside > I cook almost all meals outside. I use a card table next to the > outside > stove with plastic bins for storabe. I see all these cool folding > camp kitchens, but most are too big for my needs. Does anyone have a > recommendation? We cook ENTIRELY outside; usually over the fire ring. We will use the burners for warming small quantities of liquid (milk, water, etc.) We use the bear box and picnic table extensively, and a small folding rack to hold a cutting board or serving tray. > I look forward to hearing what you all do to make the most of a great > tent trailer! We don't have the Sante Fe but really enjoy our Jayco. The biggest lesson we learned so far was downsize downsize downsize. We moved from a fancy top-of-the-line 12' to a 10' mid-range that is over 1,000 pounds lighter. While emptying out the first pop-up we evaluated what we had been carrying and scrapped nearly half of it shedding a whole lot more unnecessary weight. Enjoy. SignatureStephen, Wife, Daughter, Son, and in-laws San Diego, CA 2002 Grand Caravan ES 3.8L with tow package 2001 Saturn LW200 in Silver-Blue 2001 Jayco Eagle 10 UD __________ /__________\_ |__|__|_____|---+ O Hey Allen, We have an 02 Santa Fe....for extra storage we use 2 large see-thru covered totes. We fill them with dry-food items that we pack last. They store on the floor while traveling and when I set-up, I place them on top of the cabinet opposite the table. Since it is see thru, you know where the items are quickly, the lids add for occasional storage on top too. More than doubles the storage space of that cabinet. For dry camping, know where every amp goes and get voltage meter to know what is going on with your juice. We save our amps for the water pump/heater fan (we are in New England) and use portable lighting for the dinner table and reading. In the fall we try to hit a spot with electricity to enjoy full lights on those short days....it is kind of nice. K 02 Santa Fe CP 05 Pathfinder >We just got back from 5 days at Jalama Beach, a remote beach campground >just south of Vandenburg AFB, CA. (run by Santa Barbara County Parks) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >useage. They just aren't bright enough. Should I get some >12 volt fluorescents? Yes Florescents are the best light for the least power draw. I use portable florescents with cig lighter plugs and 25ft cables. They plug into portable jump starter rechargable battery units. >2. Power > I just bought a new deep cycle battery. I want to be able to dry camp >for at least a week. Should I be looking at a solar >recharging system to extend my capacity? Solar is a good option if your going to be without AC for awile. It can extend you stay several days. You do have to always park in the full sun and ot in the shade. They are expensive too. I use dual 6volt deep cycle gold cart bateries in one box. They are jumpered with one cable that makes them 12volt. We can last 6 days without a recharge. After that we either find an AC outlet and chargeup or use a small generator for a few hours to recharge. >3. Storage > I would love to hear how people make the best use of the storage space. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >kitchens, but most are too big for my needs. Does anyone have a >recommendation? I like the 3 burner outside stove with lots of BTU over the little dinky 4 burner camp stover the pop-ups come with. They never work if its windy either. The big one is plugged right into the adapter on the popup and it really cooks up a storm. We alos replaced the little bottle with one larger. I think it a 10gal. >I look forward to hearing what you all do to make the most of a great tent >trailer! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ >>2. Power >> I just bought a new deep cycle battery. I want to be able to dry camp [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > After that we either find an AC outlet and chargeup or use a small > generator for a few hours to recharge. We found an fairly straightforweard way of dealing with the problem; We plug the camper into the truck for a while. We have the thing set up for charging the batteries in the camper while on tow mode. It's rather simple to hook the thing back up and grab a charge. Only took about a half an hour to bring the battery up by quite a lot... enough for another two nights, anyway. >>4. Outside >> I cook almost all meals outside. I use a card table next to the outside [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > popup and it really cooks up a storm. We alos replaced the little > bottle with one larger. I think it a 10gal. We have been considering going for twin 5 gallon units, but fitting those onto the tounge with the battery box is an issue. I guess we'll need to fabricate something. I'm less than happy about all that bottled gas being so close to the batteries... too much spark potential for my comfort. Yet, I can't mount the bottles anyplace else... and I can't very well mount the battery box inside... fumes. I thought of mounting the batteries out back of the trailer, but too much weight back there... sway... and it'd be unsafe to put the gas back there. (Sigh) > I can't very well mount the battery box inside. Yes, you can. The battery on my (bought new) 1987 Starcraft Galaxy was INSIDE a dinette seat box. Of course, it was inside a plastic battery box but the box was VENTED to the outside. An appropriate length of flexible vent tubing (1" O.D.?) was connected to the top/lid of the battery box and the other end to an official, through-the-sidewall vent. No problem. This worked OKl but was rather inconvenient for battery maintenance. :) JR > We have been considering going for twin 5 gallon units, but fitting > those onto the tounge with the battery box is an issue. I guess we'll [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the batteries out back of the trailer, but too much weight back there... > sway... and it'd be unsafe to put the gas back there. (Sigh) I wasn't aware of just how little propane capacity is provided for some of the smaller pop-ups. I am glad that my 2005 Fleetwood Niagara is equipped with two 20 pound propane tanks. >> We have been considering going for twin 5 gallon units, but fitting >> those onto the tounge with the battery box is an issue. I guess we'll [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > some of the smaller pop-ups. I am glad that my 2005 Fleetwood > Niagara is equipped with two 20 pound propane tanks. 20lbs = approx 5 gal. My mesa came with one tank (20lb) and I added a second, although I normally only use one tank all season (about 25-30 nights) for hot water and cooking. The furnace will use a tank in about 2 nights..... Two nights for a whole tank of propane? That's quite hard for me to fathom. Whenever we can, Angela and I camp up in the high mountains - we shoveled snow off the mountain into the cooler this last week rather than buy ice - so it's not like we are camping in the tropics. Still we get a LOT more than two nights from a tank. Never actually counted nights, but would hazard a guess the count would be in number of weeks, not number of nights. Either your furnace needs looking at, or you are running a very high temperature in the camper with the windows open at night in freezing conditions. Karl & Angela `02 Durango `96 Taos > 20lbs = approx 5 gal. My mesa came with one tank (20lb) and I added a > second, although I normally only use one tank all season (about 25-30 > nights) for hot water and cooking. The furnace will use a tank in about 2 > nights..... temps in the low 30's, furnace set on 60. My Mesa is slightly larger than your Taos also. Trust me, it burns it and the furnace is functioning right. We do not just run it at night, since we are in and out all the time. Probably wasn't 100 pct full, since we had camped once or twice before using it for cooking and hot water (minimal use), but the furnace is your number one source of propane usage. -- Gerry & Robyn 99 Mesa 01 Sporttrac > Two nights for a whole tank of propane? That's quite hard for me to > fathom. Whenever we can, Angela and I camp up in the high mountains - we [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> nights) for hot water and cooking. The furnace will use a tank in about >> 2 nights..... |
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