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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / April 2005Charging pop-up battery during a trip?
Hey all- I'm still researching for my eventual pop-up trailer purchase, and while I think I've figured out how most of the systems work, I'm still coming up short on a couple of areas. What kind of trailer wiring plug do most modern pop-ups come with? Well, I guess what I'm really getting at is, do they come set up for running a charge wire from the tow vehicle? Also, how does a charge wire work? I understand that I need to basically get a 10 gauge minimum wire back there from my battery, using a fuse and an isolator or a relay so it's only hot when the vehicle is running. Is any circuitry on the trailer (i.e. the converter) required for charging this way? What I'd kind of like to do is set things up so that when my battery gets low, I can put it in the back of the pickup and let it charge while we drive around. A typical trip for us (with our tent, anyway) is to set up camp then spend most of the day touring the area. We don't want to necessarily use electric sites. I've read plenty about conserving energy, solar panels, etc. but I wanted to investigate this approach. Is this a bad idea? How would I hook it up. I think I remember someone talking about it here, but I couldn't find the thread. Anyone have an wise words for me? Thanks, Korey > Hey all- > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Thanks, > Korey Maybe not the most common for pop-ups but the most common for RV trailers in general is the 7 pin connector. I would set up for 7 pin on the tow vehicle and if necessary put in an adapter or change the harness on the popup. If the trailer does not have electric brakes it may use the four pin connector. http://marksrv.com/wiring.htm What vehicle are you planning to tow with? A fuse near where you tap off the 12 volts under the hood is necessary. If you have a tow package it is already there. An isolator is not needed unless you have the trailer plugged into the tow vehicle for extended periods of time. It takes a lot of driving time to fully charge a battery. If you do a lot of dry camping a small generator is a good alternative. Someone just commented on a small generator that is in the latest Northern Tool catalog: Item# 166020-1505 a 1000 watt generator for $200. It does not say if it is only AC or if it also has 12 volt output. http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/200313480.htm For information on batteries see: http://www.batteryfaq.org > If you do a lot of dry camping a small generator is > a good alternative. I agree. With my little genset, I no longer worry about WHERE or WHEN to recharge the camper battery. > Someone just commented on a small generator that is in the latest > Northern Tool catalog: Item# 166020-1505 > a 1000 watt generator for $200. It does not say if it is only AC or if it > also has 12 volt output. > > http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/200313480.htm Yech! :( $199.99US for a generator powered by a two-stroke engine. One of the PRIMARY attractions of boondocking (camping with no hookups) is for the relative seclusion and QUIET it provides. Shattering that quiet with the generator equivalent of a CHAINSAW would probably get the user tarred, feathered and run out of the campground - and rightfully so. It would probably even get them run out of an industrial construction site. Try this instead: http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp JR > > If you do a lot of dry camping a small generator is > > a good alternative. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp I agree the Honda is quite. I have one myself but at four times the cost of that one. A two cycle can be made to run pretty quite. Can't say for that one as I have not seen specs on it yet. But some of those 5KW units in the motor homes are not exactly quiet either. Especially when they fire them up to make breakfast when the tent people are still sleeping. > I agree the Honda is quite. I have one myself but at four times the cost of > that one. There is NO comparing prices between the two, that's for sure. But, at what price does one abandon quiet when camping? > A two cycle can be made to run pretty quite. I suppose so, although I have never <ahem> NOT heard one. > Can't say for that one as I have not seen specs on it yet. Me, either. However, at that price, I am confident that little or no expense was put into making the thing quiet. > But some of those 5KW units in the motor > homes are not exactly quiet either. Especially when they fire them up to > make breakfast when the tent people are still sleeping. I know what you mean. That is precisely the reason I prefer camping AWAY from potential sources of noise. :) JR I'll be using a 2004 Dakota 4x4 (131" WB). Thanks for the wiring link. Does anyone have any hard figures on how much a battery is/can be charged while driving? I do understand that it's trickle charging so you'd never get a 100% charge. Would a higher current alternator help matters any? Like I said in my original post, it would be nice to charge the (or one of two) RV battery by tossing it in the truck while I'm out driving. I don't know whether the trailer has any special circuitry for charging, though. I'd like to avoid the generator if possible for quietness reasons and also for cost (and I was going to say for space reasons, then I looked at the specs). I'm not going to rule the generator out, but I think I'll have to listen to one running first. I'm also going to consider just getting more batteries. For the cost of a generator I could get several (of course, that's more weight, space, etc). > Does anyone have any hard figures on how much a battery is/can be > charged while driving? Probably not. There are too many variable factors to be considered, not the least of which is the GAUGE of the charge line as well as the output of the tow vehicle alternator and driving time. > Would a higher current alternator help matters any? Probably a little but, IMHO, it wouldn't be worth the CO$T of replacing a perfectly good alternator. > it would be nice to charge the (or one of two) RV battery by tossing > it in the truck while I'm out driving. I thought of this once but never actually installed the extra circuitry and tie-downs necessary to do it properly. > I don't know whether the trailer has any special > circuitry for charging, though. If it is a relatively modern trailer, the wiring needed to recharge the camper battery while driving is there. > I'd like to avoid the generator if possible for quietness reasons and > also for cost (and I was going to say for space reasons, then I looked > at the specs). I'm not going to rule the generator out, but I think > I'll have to listen to one running first. I bought the Honda EU2000i. While running at full load, one can stand OVER it and speak (and be understood) in a "normal" voice. That's quiet. http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/ModelDetail.asp?ModelName=eu2000i > I'm also going to consider just getting more batteries. For the cost > of a generator I could get several (of course, that's more weight, > space, etc). When we took our popup to a early fall outing in Rocky Mountain National Park, I brought a second battery (and third LP tank) to ensure we'd stay warm. When it came time to swap batteries, I took the discharged battery to the Estes Park, Colorado, Amoco station for recharging. I was ripped-off to the tune of $10 ($12.44 today) for the service. But I had a recharged battery. <sigh> I suspect that you are too concerned about battery capacity. Get a good, deep cycle Group 27 or 31 battery and go camping. It is the furnace blower that will consume the most power if you are using it. Even so, I got three nights - and could've gone a 4th night - from my battery before it needed recharging. Without using the furnace, and being VERY careful using the camper's lights, you could easily go a whole week on a single charge. Camping at Yellowstone and Rocky Mountain National Parks, using the furnace at night, my biggest concern was RECHARGING the battery. Even so, I always managed to find a way to recharge and we never got cold at night. Now, with my generator (and *MUCH* consideration of my camping neighbors), I no longer have that concern. ...and I can now make real TOAST for breakfast! :) JR  Signature2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > When we took our popup to a early fall outing in Rocky Mountain National Park, > I brought a second battery (and third LP tank) to ensure we'd stay warm. When > it came time to swap batteries, I took the discharged battery to the Estes > Park, Colorado, Amoco station for recharging. I was ripped-off to the tune of > $10 ($12.44 today) for the service. But I had a recharged battery. <sigh> That's what happens when you go to "Tourist Towns" <G>. I have not been to that area for years. I always go to the other side (Shadow Mountain or Granby reservoirs). Have reservations there for early June. Just hope it doesn't snow. Also reservations for Steamboat. I am already in the Denver area so it is not much of a trip. With a pair of Golf Cart batteries I can go for quite a while before needing a charge. Thanks for all the information. One thing you did bring up was the furnace blower, which I'd read before was a concern. That's actually the main reason for my concern. My wife and I are predominantly spring and fall tent campers. I'm a real wuss when it comes to the heat of summer, and she's not a big fan of winter. One motivation for getting a pop-up is to make both a bit more comfortable, or at least extend our seasons a little bit. I'd like to make sure we can boondock during the colder temperatures, though most of the time we only go for a weekend anyway. At this point, I'm aware of my options, so we can try it out, and if we need more batteries or a generator, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. On one hand it'd be nice to get an aliner, little hi-lo, etc. for a little more insulation value, features, etc., but on the other hand, we like the open feeling of a popup. Of course, finances have made that decision a little easier. I've done a bit of reading about it, but can anyone give any real world advice about a good battery charger? Thanks, Korey Furnace Current. When you get the trailer if you look at the nameplate on the furnace it will probably tell you the current draw. It will probably be in 3 to 5 ampere range. The usual deep discharge battery is about 100 ampere hours. If you follow the advice of not discharging below 50% that give you 10 to 15 hours of operation. If your night temperatures are in the 30 to 40 degree range at night, as they usually are at night in the high country in Colorado you could be running the furnace in a Pop-up as much as half time. That gives you only about one night on a charge. I have a hard side but my daughters family has a pop-up. They carry along two or three batteries and a generator. However, he does use batteries for an electric boat motor too. The converters in the trailers are usually not good battery chargers. Be certain to get the Deep Discharge and not the Marine Starting. You can also do as I have done and use two 6 volt golf cart in series. SAMS have them for about $50 each. A little hard to find a place to mount them on a pop-up so you will probably be better to just get a good deep discharge. Probably of equal importance is to be certain to get two propane tanks with an automatic changeover valve. You can charge your batteries while driving to town for gas <G>. You probably will be looking at getting about a 10 to 15 ampere charger with a deep discharge setting such as those available at WalMart, http://www.batterychargers.com/itemlist.cfm?cid=16 And look over the information on battery charging at: http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm and http://www.batteryfaq.org > Probably of equal importance is to be certain to get two propane tanks with > an automatic changeover valve. You can charge your batteries while driving > to town for gas <G>. My dealer indicated that they feel that the automatic changeover is a bad thing to use because it is too easy to completely run out of gas. At least with manual changeover, you know when the first tank is empty. Auto changeover would be OK if you had a third tank as a spare. I would hate to be a longs ways from a supplier and run out. > My dealer indicated that they feel that the automatic changeover > is a bad thing to use because it is too easy to completely run > out of gas. I won't call him an "idiot", but it's tempting. Waiting for the first tank to run dry is about as dumb and unnecessary as running your car's gas tank empty before looking for a fill-up. You use the gas GAUGE. The auto-changeover regulator acts like a gauge: It tells you when the first tank is empty and automatically switches over to the other, full tank. > At least with manual changeover, you know when the > first tank is empty. You KNOW with an auto-changeover regulator, too. You simply LOOK at the device to see if/when it has switched to the second tank. Manually switching tanks implies that you will occasionally wake up in the morning freezing cold and have to re-light one or more pilot lights. The auto-changeover regulator prevents this uncomfortable and annoying occurrence. > Auto changeover would be OK if you had a third tank as a spare. Auto changeover is JUST FINE with a two tank system. If you find yourself using a LOT of propane during an outing, you simply check the auto-changeover flag once daily. When it shows that a switch has occurred, you remove the empty tank and have it refilled while using the remaining tank to stay warm. > I would hate to be a longs ways from a supplier and run out. Me, too. I have used an auto-changeover regulator with a two-tank setup since 1987 and have NEVER run out of LP - not even close. :) JR Signature2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > Auto changeover is JUST FINE with a two tank system. If you find yourself > using a LOT of propane during an outing, you simply check the auto-changeover > flag once daily. When it shows that a switch has occurred, you remove the > empty tank and have it refilled while using the remaining tank to stay warm. I may have to go back to them and get an auto-changeover device. It does indeed sound like it should work fine if you pay attention to it. I have a third tank that I can take for extended stays in cool weather. I originally wanted the device installed and they talked me out of it. I should have stuck by my originally plan and had them install it. > > Probably of equal importance is to be certain to get two propane tanks > with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > tank as a spare. I would hate to be a longs ways from a supplier > and run out. What on earth was he talking about? A million RV owners must be wrong. With a manual regulator I can guarantee you will be out there at 3 a.m., on a chilly night, with a flashlight switching tanks. Then, unless you have an automatic water heater and refrigerator, you get to light them again as well. The automatic changeover is just an indicator. You have both tanks turned on all the time. A switch is used to select which tank to use first. When that tank is empty the valve automatically switches to the other tank and a red flag appears indicating that the selected tank is empty. You just take a look at the valve each day. When you see the red flag you move the switch to the other tank (the red flag disappears), removed the empty tank and get it filled. http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/lp-gas-changeover-valve.htm > What on earth was he talking about? A million RV owners must be wrong. With > a manual regulator I can guarantee you will be out there at 3 a.m., on a > chilly night, with a flashlight switching tanks. Then, unless you have an > automatic water heater and refrigerator, you get to light them again as > well. I am getting the strong impression that the dealer was wrong and that this should have been installed like I wanted it to be. I let them talk me out of it and I shouldn't have. > I am getting the strong impression that the dealer was wrong and that > this should have been installed like I wanted it to be. I let them talk > me out of it and I shouldn't have. I have encountered some RV dealerships that, for reasons I'll never understand, were reluctant to perform a service as simple as swapping a LP regulator. Perhaps your dealer was looking out for your finances. That's almost un-American! <g> If the manual, dual-tank regulator on your system is working OK, I wouldn't be in a BIG rush to change it, but it WOULD be on my list of things to do. If you are reasonably handy with a wrench and plumber's (teflon) tape, the regulator swap could be an easy do-it-yourself project. :) JR > If the manual, dual-tank regulator on your system is working OK, I wouldn't be > in a BIG rush to change it, but it WOULD be on my list of things to do. > > If you are reasonably handy with a wrench and plumber's (teflon) tape, the > regulator swap could be an easy do-it-yourself project. At the moment, each tank is separate from the other. I don't think that it would be all that difficult to install an auto-changeover device. I believe that I would like having this instead of having a tank run low in the night and finding out that I need to go outside and manually change the connection. > > If the manual, dual-tank regulator on your system is working OK, I > wouldn't be [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > a tank run low in the night and finding out that I need to go > outside and manually change the connection. Maybe your dealer will swap your regulator for the one with the switchover valve. Just don't do like my daughter did last year. She switched to the other tank but forgot to replace and fill the first one. In the middle of the night both tanks were empty. Fortunately they had a third tank along. >>If you are reasonably handy with a wrench and plumber's (teflon) tape, the >>regulator swap could be an easy do-it-yourself project. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a tank run low in the night and finding out that I need to go > outside and manually change the connection. I installed our auto change-over and it's really quite simple, just make sure all the connections are tight. (Dealer told me it was "not available" for the Taos.) As someone who has (more than once) gone out in the middle of a near freezing night and switched tanks, I would *not* be without one! The original setup had such a short hose the tank *had* to be on the tongue, IIRC, or at least the one that was on the tongue had to be off to hook it up. Either way, this meant I had to unbolt the first one from the tongue under the extended bunk-end before I could hook up the spare. I had to start the TV, and run the heater to get my hands working well enough to finish - never again! Karl & Angela `02 Durango `96 Taos Can you elaborate on how the valve works? When the regulator on ours went out (not actually the regulator - the "switch" went out - only one side would supply gas) I replaced with a model that appears to be an auto-switchover like the picture in the link below. It came with zero instructions, so I don't really know what I have. As I understood it, you could point it to one tank or the other and it would pull from just one. or you could point it straight up and it would pull from both at the same time (sounds like a dumb idea). Do you just point it at, say the left tank, then turn on the left tank, then turn on the right as well, and then it pulls from the left until it's empty, raises the red flag, and pulls from the other? Sounds like a handy feature, but want to make sure I'm using it right - don't want to be pulling from both at the same time! Thanks, Wesley > The automatic changeover is just an indicator. You have both tanks turned > on all the time. A switch is used to select which tank to use first. When [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/lp-gas-changeover-valve.htm That's it. It pulls from the tank it is pointed at until it is empty and then automatically switches to the other tank. When the tank it is pointed at is empty the flag goes red. > Can you elaborate on how the valve works? When the regulator on ours went > out (not actually the regulator - the "switch" went out - only one side [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > > http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/lp-gas-changeover-valve.htm Thanks for the info! Glad to know for sure how it is supposed to work! :-) Wesley > That's it. It pulls from the tank it is pointed at until it is empty and > then automatically switches to the other tank. When the tank it is pointed > at is empty the flag goes red. > Can you elaborate on how the valve works? The "switch" has two positions: Left and right. I doubt that, if pointed UP, it will draw from BOTH tanks. In any case, you would NEVER want to do that. With both tanks full, move the selector "switch" to point to one of the tanks. Open the valve fully on BOTH tanks. Enjoy your propane service. When the "active" tank empties, a little red "flag" pops-up atop the regulator indicating the tank to which the selector is pointing is EMPTY. Move the selector to point at the OTHER tank. The red "flag" should retract (disappear) indicating a "full" tank is being used. Close the valve on the empty tank, remove it and refill. :) JR Signature2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > My dealer indicated that they feel that the automatic changeover > is a bad thing to use because it is too easy to completely run > out of gas. At least with manual changeover, you know when the > first tank is empty. Auto changeover would be OK if you had a third > tank as a spare. I would hate to be a longs ways from a supplier > and run out. That is *so* silly! You can only run completely out of gas with an automatic changeover if you ignore it. I put this set up on our little Taos, and love it. It sure beats having to change tanks at 4 AM and 38 degrees! I have one tank is mounted on the tongue, the other sits on the ground "inside" the tongue. (This is the one I run off, as it's easier to take off and to town.) I make it a habit to look at the indicator every morning while having my coffee. I know I don't have to check it every day, but I also know I *do* look at it every morning, I won't ever get caught without LPG. If you don't want to be bothered with checking it regularly, when you set up, hook up the tanks as normal, but just open the valve on the tank that is easier to get at, and leave the other one off. Now, when the first tank quits, all you have to do is go out open the full tanks valve. *Much* easier than fussing with the connections in the middle of a cold night! Karl & Angela `02 Durango `96 Taos We are from So Cal, so you can imagine that we are pretty wimpy when it comes to the cold. Yet, we do well in cold weather. Last year in Yellowstone, we actually got snowed on - after a good 12 hours of soaking rain, it changed to several inches of snow. It was even colder at Bryce - although thankfully dry. It hit 19F for a low. We don't sleep with the heater on - not to save electricity, but because we find it uncomfortable. We do like it in the evening and morning - especially while dressing. While we sleep we with very warm bedding. The kids have warm sleeping bags. My husband and I have flannel sheets, mattress pads, and a warm comforter. We all have warm PJs. We have an extra battery on the tongue. We have plenty of heat and light for a very long weekend! When we go on longer trips, I try to alternate between no hookups and hookups, to keep the battery charged. We keep talking about buying a small Honda generator, but we seem to make it work without. We have a Mr Heater Buddy - we have never used it indoors. WE eat almost all our meals outdoors - and we find that if we put up our shade structure (the free standing one) and run Mr Heater Buddy there, it keeps up warm for meals. I am totally with you on the heat, though. During the summer it is beach or nothing. I prefer the other 9 months for camping. Laura > Thanks for all the information. One thing you did bring up was the > furnace blower, which I'd read before was a concern. That's actually [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and if we need more batteries or a generator, we'll cross that bridge > when we come to it. > Thanks for all the information. One thing you did bring up was the > furnace blower, which I'd read before was a concern. That's actually > the main reason for my concern. A furnace blower will suck down a battery. If you are prudent, keep the use of lights to a minimum, and (if you have one) use the water pump as little as possible, you can run the furnace at it's lowest setting for several nights. Angela and I have gotten caught with four inches of snow on our camper - we were camping in the Snowy Mountains - they come by the name honestly! (I sent you a picture) That week we ran the furnace every night for 6 nights. We did not use it at all during the day (day-time temps were rather nice), have no water pump, and pretty much didn't use the lights at all. The battery gave out the last night we camped there, and we were *cold*! > My wife and I are predominantly spring > and fall tent campers. I'm a real wuss when it comes to the heat of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and if we need more batteries or a generator, we'll cross that bridge > when we come to it. If you go with a good, deep cycle, fully charged battery, and are at all careful, I doubt you will have to worry for just a weekend outing, unless you plan on camping during a severe cold snap, and run the furnace all day. > On one hand it'd be nice to get an aliner, little hi-lo, etc. for a > little more insulation value, features, etc., but on the other hand, we > like the open feeling of a popup. Of course, finances have made that > decision a little easier. The furnace in a pop-up does a surprisingly good job of heating what in reality is a tent in a box. You should close the curtains on the end you are not sleeping in, it will help to conserve power to not heat where you won't be. > I've done a bit of reading about it, but can anyone give any real world > advice about a good battery charger? I'm sure you can google and find a ton of information about battery chargers/charging. What I have done to extend our stays has been to hook the camper battery up with jumper cables from the truck. It's gotten some negative responses in this group, but it sure beats having to buy a new battery after you've run one dead - which we had to do after the camping trip mentioned above. Karl & Angela `02 Durango `96 Taos > When we took our popup to a early fall outing in Rocky Mountain National Park, > I brought a second battery (and third LP tank) to ensure we'd stay warm. When > it came time to swap batteries, I took the discharged battery to the Estes > Park, Colorado, Amoco station for recharging. I was ripped-off to the tune of > $10 ($12.44 today) for the service. But I had a recharged battery. <sigh> And if you want to stay away from soucres of noise you should avoid the National Parks. Those CGs are much too crowed. For example head to the west side of the park to Willow Creek. http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/recreation/camping-picnicking/developed/srd/willow- creek.shtml Green Ridge is also very nice. Right at the outlet of Shadow Mountain Reservoir. http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/recreation/camping-picnicking/developed/srd/green-r idge.shtml They just put in some electric at Stillwater (On Granby). Those fill up fast. Nice in early June if you have a pop-up as you can use electric heat. > I'll be using a 2004 Dakota 4x4 (131" WB). Thanks for the wiring link. Then definitely go with the 7 pin on the truck. If necessary you can use an adapter to a four pin on the trailer. Does it have a trailer harness already installed? Is there already a wire for electric brakes? It probably already has a way to install a brake controller. (Just plug it in). > Does anyone have any hard figures on how much a battery is/can be > charged while driving? I do understand that it's trickle charging so [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'm out driving. I don't know whether the trailer has any special > circuitry for charging, though. Your charge is limited by the truck regulator. The voltage is limited to about 14.5 volts. > I'd like to avoid the generator if possible for quietness reasons and > also for cost (and I was going to say for space reasons, then I looked > at the specs). I'm not going to rule the generator out, but I think > I'll have to listen to one running first. The little Hondas are really quiet. One of those 1KW are not noticed from across the road. I have two Golf Cart batteries giving me 220 Ampere Hours but I now have a larger trailer. > I'm also going to consider just getting more batteries. For the cost > of a generator I could get several (of course, that's more weight, > space, etc). Rich- Thanks for the replies. I currently have a four pin connector and no brake controller, but I plan to get a controller and install a 7 pin connector. Right now the four pin is just wired off of the taillights, so I've got some upgrading to do. Thanks for telling me about the voltage regulator. That was a piece of info I was missing. I'd heard of people using the golf cart batteries, and it sounds like a good idea (considering what they're designed to do). Now, whether they'll fit on a popup I don't know. Korey > Rich- > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Korey Forgot to mention that the golf cart do not fit a standard battery box. They are taller and not quite so wide. The current capability is about the same. My golf cart are 220 ampere hour types (6 volt). Put them in series and you get 220 ampere hours at 12 volts. A good deep discharge 12 volt is about 110 ampere hours. As for the isolator. If you do go for an isolator I will suggest you get the relay type. One that uses a diode results in a 0.6 volt drop, decreasing your charge current. As I have said I really don't see a good reason to use one with a pop-up. If you run your refrigerator on 12 volts when driving you must be careful not to leave it on when parked for a long time. It draws about 10 amperes. When driving with the refrigerator on you don't get much charging. It takes about all the current just to run the refrigerator. I've always wondered if it's safe to tow with the propane running the refrigerator. I guess I'm asking late, since I've been doing it for about 2 years now! But is it ok to do that? Or is it a hazard having propane running while under way? Thanks! Richard 2005 Ford Explorer 4x4 (brand new, still haven't towed with it!) (old tow rig was a '94 Explorer 4x4) 1997 Coleman Yukon > > Rich- > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > don't get much charging. It takes about all the current just to run the > refrigerator. >I've always wondered if it's safe to tow with the propane running the >refrigerator. I guess I'm asking late, since I've been doing it for about 2 >years now! But is it ok to do that? Or is it a hazard having propane >running while under way? >Thanks! No hazard at all, unless you are at a gas station. Shut it off while refueling. Some tunnels back east don't allow it on, and the same is true on Washington state ferries. I've left mine on going on 15 years. Tom Let's play: Open a Can of Worms! > I've always wondered if it's safe to tow with the propane running the > refrigerator...is it ok to do that? Yes. Of course, that is simply my opinion. I have done it for years and have had no problem. Therefore, that means the practice is perfectly safe. <grin> The are two schools of thought on this subject, hence the "can of worms" intro. This topic ranks "up there" with tire pressure debates and the [leave the computer running or turn it off between uses] debate. I found the 12VDC setting on my little 3-way fridge was worthless, and the flame would blow out (not auto-start/piezo-ignited) so I just made sure it was as cool as could be before leaving. Now, after 5 seasons with a 2-way AUTO-ignited left running on propane while underway, I have no concerns. Of course, if on a VERY calm day, and pulling into a gas station where there has just been a significant fuel spill, I turn OFF the refrigerator. (Those are, of course, the same conditions required for a cell phone to cause an explosion. Sheesh!) :) JR Signature2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 I think there are special regulations by Provinces or State that limits the use of propane. Personnaly, I never tow with my tanks open. If ever I get into an accident (which obviously is not something I want) and the rubber hose gets ripped, I would not want to have the propane emptying close of an eventual fire or spark.. Mel Richard Minami a écrit: > I've always wondered if it's safe to tow with the propane running the > refrigerator. I guess I'm asking late, since I've been doing it for about 2 [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >>don't get much charging. It takes about all the current just to run the >>refrigerator. > I'd heard of people using the golf cart batteries, and it sounds like a > good idea (considering what they're designed to do). Now, whether > they'll fit on a popup I don't know. It isn't just the size, but these things weigh a lot. I will have to haul my batteries in my truck because the pop-up is already getting close to its weight limit. > I'd like to avoid the generator if possible for quietness reasons and > also for cost (and I was going to say for space reasons, then I looked > at the specs). I'm not going to rule the generator out, but I think > I'll have to listen to one running first. You may have to strain to hear it! :) Seriously though, I have camped where one of those is running, and if it's not pulling a load, you can literally stand with it between you someone else and not have to change how loud you speak. If it's running at full throttle, it's some louder of course, but quiet enough at 100 feet birds singing will drown it out. Angela and I are planning on getting one as soon as Uncle Sam sends us the money we lent him last year. Karl & Angela `02 Durango `96 Taos Hey Korey99... You can definately use your tow vehicle for charging your pop-up battery. You will want to install an isolater in your tow vehicle, so as not to drain the vehicle battery. ...(An isolater will allow the current (charge) to flow from the alternater to the pop-up battery, but if the load is too large it won't draw current from the vehicle battery...Avoiding having a dead battery after shutting off your tow vehicle) You may want to fabricate two harness's...one for towing and a second harness 10 or 12 feet long so you can charge while parked next to the pop-up...(You cant back-up underneath when the beds are pulled out) There are lots of diagrams out there for your isolater hook up, and your isolater will come with it's own specific instructions. As far as your harness for the Pop-up and tow vehicle, most small pop-ups use the 4 wire flat connector. But you will probably want to go with a 6 pin round (running lights, left turn, rt turn, ground, 12v+ (charging), spare) Hope this sheds a little light on the subject. SignatureJamie Maddox General Foreman Electro Construction Corp. cell (213) 305-2650 maddox@prodigy.net > Hey all- > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Thanks, > Korey I really don't see a need for an isolator. They are more commonly used on motorhomes. The only time an isolator is needed is if you are running a refrigerator on 12 volts and park somewhere for a while. Normally you pull the plug almost immediatly when in a campground. I had one of those types for several years. Just had to turn off the refrigerator or switch it to gas when stopped for a while. The refrigerator I have now only runs on gas or 110 so that problem is not longer there. I have to run it on propane when on the road. It is too big for 12 volts anyway. > Hey Korey99... > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Thanks, > > Korey In article <dVD8e.598003$w62.443119@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > I really don't see a need for an isolator. They are more commonly used on > motorhomes. The only time an isolator is needed is if you are running a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > or 110 so that problem is not longer there. I have to run it on propane > when on the road. It is too big for 12 volts anyway. Another reason for the isolator is to prevent your popup battery from feeding the tow vehicle battery when you start your engine. That would fry your charge line or blow your fuses (you need two fuses or circuit breakers, one a each battery, to protect the charge line). A continuous duty relay does a good job, is not expensive and simple to wire. Mine is wired to the accessory circuit of my van, wich is live only when the ignition switch is at ACC or ON. At START the relay is open. I also have a manual switch. Carl 99 Santa Fe > In article > <dVD8e.598003$w62.443119@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Carl > 99 Santa Fe That is why you should not use fuses. I always use automatic resettable circuit breakers on my 12 volt and trailer brake power lines. What I have done in the power line is to use 40 ampere fuses followed by a 30 ampere auto reset breaker. I never had a fuse blow. The breaker always took care of any possible short. When pulling a HILO I found it was extra important. If you raise or lower the trailer while plugged into the tow vehicle you would blow a fuse. I would venture to say that very few trailer owners bother with isolators. But every motor home really needs them. Thanks Jamie- I wondered what it was that an isolator actually did. That makes sense. I had thought about making the two harnesses you mentioned (using big enough wire), and I figured I might try making another so I can pull the battery from the trailer and charge while traveling without the trailer, as I've mentioned before. Now I just need to figure out whether any special circuitry is required, or whether just putting the battery in parallel with my vehicle battery would work. I've seen show cars with two batteries, and they both get charged, so it must be possible some how. My brand new Ford Explorer (with tow package) has the 7 pin connector. Is it safe to assume it has an isolator? If I park it for lunch on the way home from a long weekend of camping, the Explorer battery won't be dead? I still haven't towed our camper yet. I'm anxious to see how it does! Our old rig was a '94 Explorer. Only 160 HP and 220 lbs/ft of torque. The new one has 210 HP and 254 lbs/ft. Thanks! Richard 2005 Ford Explorer 4x4 1997 Coleman Yukon > Hey Korey99... > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Thanks, > > Korey > My brand new Ford Explorer (with tow package) has the 7 pin connector. Is > it safe to assume it has an isolator? No. It is a good bet it does NOT have an isolator. You don't need one in any case. > If I park it for lunch on the way home from a long weekend of camping, > the Explorer battery won't be dead? Correct. If in doubt, UNPLUG the camper from the tow vehicle. Leave yourself a reminder (clothespin on the steering wheel, sticky note on the speedometer, etc) to reconnect it before resuming travel. Congratulations and have fun! :) JR Signature2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 You said in the previous post you ran on propane. If you are not running a refrigerator on 12 volts you won't run anything down. If using the refrigerator, it uses about 10 amperes. If you have a fully charged batteries you won't run them down but you will take a bit out of them. Your trailer battery is probably about 100 ampere hours. If you leave a refrigerator running on 12 volts it will deplete it in a few hours. If you have a 12 volt option on your refrigerator and want to see if your tow vehicle wire is adequate test it with a voltmeter. With the trailer battery fully charged connect to the tow vehicle and turn on the refrigerator. Measure the voltage at the trailer battery with the engine running. If it can hold about 12.7 volts or above the wiring is adequate. Don't expect to charge your battery and run the refrigerator too. One truck I got had some of those cheap quick connect fasteners in the trailer harness. I had to replace them with twist connectors. > My brand new Ford Explorer (with tow package) has the 7 pin connector. Is > it safe to assume it has an isolator? If I park it for lunch on the way [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > > Thanks, > > > Korey I've been running on propane. But I have 2 golf cart 6 volt batteries (lasts over a week with a little solar panel), which I'm assuming get run down a little after a long weekend. I just didn't want all the power to drain out of the Explorer battery, trying to charge the huge power sink the golf cart batteries represent. Thanks for all the info! Richard > You said in the previous post you ran on propane. If you are not running a > refrigerator on 12 volts you won't run anything down. [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > > > > Thanks, > > > > Korey I think I see what you are asking. As long as the trailer batteries are charged they will not draw on the car battery. Even if somewhat discharged they will not present a drain. When stopped the voltage at the car battery will drop to about 12.7 volts. That will not present a charging voltage to the trailer. Only if there are heavy loads such as the refrigerator could they drain your battery. I miss having the 12 volt option for running the refrigerator. I guess mine is now too large for a 12 volt heater to keep it cool. Does your refrigerator have an automatic light feature. If not I would expect there would be problems of it blowing out when driving. Mine just has the 110 or propane. If there is no 110 it automatically lights the propane. I too have the golf cart batteries. I use a charger with the deep discharge setting to get them fully charged before traveling. I have a small generator but never try to get a full charge using it. > I've been running on propane. But I have 2 golf cart 6 volt batteries > (lasts over a week with a little solar panel), which I'm assuming get run [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Korey |
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