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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / July 2005air conditioner performance
I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and I'm wondering how I can check it's performance. It doesn't seem to be cooling as well as it should and I'm curious if there is a place in the popup (or at the vent) that I should take a measurement and what temperature should be there? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and I'm >wondering how I can check it's performance. It doesn't seem to be >cooling as well as it should and I'm curious if there is a place in the >popup (or at the vent) that I should take a measurement and what >temperature should be there? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Stick a thermometer in the outlet air vent. The temp should be about 40 degrees or less.  SignatureFrank Tabor > >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and I'm > >wondering how I can check it's performance. It doesn't seem to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Stick a thermometer in the outlet air vent. The temp should be about > 40 degrees or less. Yeah? What is the temp in the camper is 85°? Will he still get discharge temps below 40°? >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and I'm >> >wondering how I can check it's performance. It doesn't seem to be [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Yeah? What is the temp in the camper is 85°? Will he still get discharge >temps below 40°? Doesn't matter what the temp in the camper is. SignatureFrank Tabor > >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and I'm > >> >wondering how I can check it's performance. It doesn't seem to be [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Doesn't matter what the temp in the camper is. If the incoming air is 85°, the best he'll be able to do is a ~65° discharge until the camper cools down. Where'd you learn your HVAC? Pedophile Dave's HVAC School? >> >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and I'm >> >> >wondering how I can check it's performance. It doesn't seem to be [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Where'd you learn your HVAC? Pedophile Dave's HVAC School? Where did you learn? Real case, inlet air is 85 degrees and the outlet temp is 42 degrees, just measured it. If you only have a 20 degree differential, then you got a piss poor AC unit. SignatureFrank Tabor Thats for damn sure. 20 degree diff is a broken unit. >>> >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and >>> >> >I'm [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > outlet temp is 42 degrees, just measured it. If you only have a 20 > degree differential, then you got a piss poor AC unit. > Thats for damn sure. 20 degree diff is a broken unit. And you have no idea, either. > >>> >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and > >>> >> >I'm [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > -- > > Frank Tabor > >> >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and I'm > >> >> >wondering how I can check it's performance. It doesn't seem to be [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > outlet temp is 42 degrees, just measured it. If you only have a 20 > degree differential, then you got a piss poor AC unit. You, sir, have no idea what you are talking about. If you measure the outside discharge air from the condenser and the inside air coming out of your supply registers, sure you may get that kind of delta T, but that's not the way professionals do it. It's conceivable that you should have a 22° delta T across the evaporator and 16° across the condenser coil and the unit is working perfectly. Can YOU tell me how that's possible? >> >> >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and >I'm [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >and 16° across the condenser coil and the unit is working perfectly. Can >YOU tell me how that's possible? Take your Delta and stuff it. If you left my AC with only a 20 degree differential, you would have to go to the ER to have it removed from your a.s. We're not talking about a Heat Pump, we're talking about a real AC unit. And if it's putting out air that's warmer that 50 degrees, it's broke. SignatureFrank Tabor > >> >> >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up and > >I'm [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > unit. And if it's putting out air that's warmer that 50 degrees, it's > broke. Oooooooo, the little boy is using foul language again and threatening me, I'll have to let his ISP know. If the return is above 75°, it WILL be discharging air above 50° > -- > Frank Tabor >> >> >> >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up >and [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >> -- >> Frank Tabor Then your AC is broke or you are a hard headed liar. I keep telling you that an AC that puts out higher than 50 degree air is broke. No go away, you are bothering the grownups. SignatureFrank Tabor > >> >> >> >> >I just had a 13,500 BTU air conditioner installed in my pop-up > >and [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > go away, you are bothering the grownups. > -- My AC isn't broke AND you don't have a clue. At least I'll admit I am a bit hard headed. A delta T of 20 Deg F is a good rule of thumb. HVAC design on the Gulf Coast is MUCH different than in other parts of the US. Places like Houston with extreme humidity can compound the problem even more. There are lots of posts explaining HVAC but this one sums it up best . . . ========================================= What is the temperature difference between the inlet and discharged air? Again, the simple answer is 25 degrees F, but several factors significantly impact the temperature drop you will have at any given time including: a.. Fan Speed - At lower fan speeds the discharge air temperature will be colder even though you will actually be removing less heat overall. The air temperature is colder at low fan speeds because the heat that is being removed is being taken from disproportionately less air volume. b.. Humidity - In high humidity conditions, a great deal of cooling capacity is used to condense moisture out of the air. As the humidity levels are lower by re-circulation air, the discharge air temperature will become lower and lower. Under extreme conditions, only 25% of the capacity of the air conditioner will be used to actually cool the air. What might be a 25 degree F difference in low humidity may be only 6 or 7degrees in high humidity. Under these conditions it is important to be able to restrict the amount of fresh air entering the cabin. > Under these conditions it is important to be able to restrict the amount > of fresh air entering the cabin. That makes sense ... just like in the car on Max AC. Question is, can you set these camper AC units on recirc? SignatureRegards, Wayne Moses, Houston, Texas Dutchmen Duck 801D 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8l > > Under these conditions it is important to be able to restrict the amount > > of fresh air entering the cabin. > > That makes sense ... just like in the car on Max AC. > > Question is, can you set these camper AC units on recirc? Recirc in a tent... It might help, a tiny bit certainly would not hurt to try. I can not imagine how a tent camper is going to be air tight. > Recirc in a tent... It might help, a tiny bit certainly would not hurt to > try. > I can not imagine how a tent camper is going to be air tight. Likely not air tight, but at least 95% of the input air would be inside air and not outside hot air ... Wayne > > Under these conditions it is important to be able to restrict the amount > > of fresh air entering the cabin. > > That makes sense ... just like in the car on Max AC. > > Question is, can you set these camper AC units on recirc? Do what? Most all the systems I do and see are designed to be 'recircualting.' The return air from the outside would be heat and humidity laden if they were all outside air makeup.... the systems woould never cool properly. >> Question is, can you set these camper AC units on recirc? >> > Do what? I picked up the PUP today and spoke with the AC man who installed it and he said that it cannot be put on recirc like in the car, where only inside air is repeatedly passed over the coils and no fresh air is brought in. It can only work in fresh air mode. As for the temperature differential, he agreed with the rule-of-thumb that there would be a 20 - 25 degree difference between the vent temperature and the ambient temperature *inside the trailer*. That said, he felt I should get about 55 deg. vent temp and the ambient temp in the trailer should be about 75 degrees, while the temperature was like it was today -- about 98+ degrees. He also said that levels of humidity and amount of insulation of the walls of the space affect this rule of thumb. Wayne > >> Question is, can you set these camper AC units on recirc? > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is repeatedly passed over the coils and no fresh air is brought in. It can > only work in fresh air mode. Okay. I'll have to look again, but every camper unit I've seen takes the return air from inside the camper and passes it over the evap coil to remove the heat. > As for the temperature differential, he agreed with the rule-of-thumb that > there would be a 20 - 25 degree difference between the vent temperature and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > degrees. He also said that levels of humidity and amount of insulation of > the walls of the space affect this rule of thumb. See Frankie? > every camper unit I've seen takes the return air from inside the > camper and passes it over the evap coil to remove the heat. I have always wondered about this. I have a DuoTherm unit (13.5k) that does a good job for my ~24-ft travel trailer, even under the hottest of direct sun. Unlike in our cars, there is NO setting whereby the user can change from [fresh air/intake] to [recirculate]. IOW, there is no outside vent control that can be opened or closed. I suspect - and hope - that my unit is strictly a recirculating unit, otherwise much of the HEAT that is produced during the HEATING season is flowing UP and OUT through the a/c. My biggest challenge when using the a/c is to level the trailer so that condensate runs off to the STREET side. :) JR > I have a DuoTherm unit (13.5k) that does a good job for my ~24-ft travel > trailer, even under the hottest of direct sun. That is encouraging since my Carrier AirV is also 13500 btu and I have it on an 8' PUP that opens to 17'. http://www.airv.carrier.com/Files/AirV/Global/US-en/customer_service/Air_V_Broch ure.pdf?SMSESSION=NO > Unlike in our cars, there is NO setting whereby the user can change from > [fresh air/intake] to [recirculate]. IOW, there is no outside vent > control > that can be opened or closed. That seems to be the consensus ... > I suspect - and hope - that my unit is strictly a recirculating unit, > otherwise much of the HEAT that is produced during the HEATING season is > flowing UP and OUT through the a/c. I don't believe my unit has heating although it has an "option". Thanks Jim. Wayne >> I have a DuoTherm unit (13.5k) that does a good job for my ~24-ft >> travel trailer, even under the hottest of direct sun. > That is encouraging since my Carrier AirV is also 13500 btu and I have it on > an 8' PUP that opens to 17'. Don't get too excited, yet. Thermal retention of a conventional popup camper is minimal at best. (Just what IS the 'R' value of canvas?) Exacerbating the air conditioning situation is getting the cooled air to flow into the bunk ends. The output of the a/c is up/against the ceiling. There are, of course, the ENDS of the roof that deflect the air stream DOWNWARD. This prevents MUCH of the cooled air from actually reaching the bunk ends. I understand that some folks have compensated for this by using a small fan on the dinette table to blow the cooled air into the bunk(s). I have never tried this but it makes sense to me. >> I suspect - and hope - that my unit is strictly a recirculating unit, >> otherwise much of the HEAT that is produced during the HEATING season >> is flowing UP and OUT through the a/c. > I don't believe my unit has heating although it has an "option". My a/c unit doesn't have the heat strip, either. I was referring to the heat produced by the RV gas furnace or our little Pelonis ceramic disc furnace (electric cube). With a permanently open vent in the a/c, it would let this heat escape. Fortunately, as you said, the concensus is that there is NOT an open vent up there. :) JR Signature2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > Don't get too excited, yet. Thermal retention of a conventional popup > camper > is minimal at best. (Just what IS the 'R' value of canvas?) I know. I was offsetting the reduction in inside volume by the decrease in R-value of your travel trailer walls. I suspect that the R-value of canvas tenting is not very much. > Exacerbating the air conditioning situation is getting the cooled air to > flow > into the bunk ends. The output of the a/c is up/against the ceiling. > There > are, of course, the ENDS of the roof that deflect the air stream DOWNWARD. > This prevents MUCH of the cooled air from actually reaching the bunk ends. I hear what you are saying. One neat feature of the unit I just had installed is the oscillating vents, which would direct the air stream more effectively into the near side bunk end. The far bunk end is far enough away that the step down of the roof cap would not deflect the air downwards. I am likely going to get the PUP out of storage this weekend and set it up in my driveway. The temperature is expected to continue to be close to 100 deg.F so it would be a good test. There are no trees over my driveway so this would be a worst case scenario. > I understand that some folks have compensated for this by using a small > fan on > the dinette table to blow the cooled air into the bunk(s). I have never > tried > this but it makes sense to me. Good idea. I have a small fan that I can bring along. > My a/c unit doesn't have the heat strip, either. I was referring to the > heat > produced by the RV gas furnace or our little Pelonis ceramic disc furnace > (electric cube). I have a similar setup -- propane furnace and a small AC heater with ceramic core. SignatureRegards, Wayne Moses, Houston, Texas Dutchmen Duck 801D 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8l Absolutely nothing of interest. Momma let you turn the computer back on little man? SignatureFrank Tabor My mother passed away a few years ago, if that's your question. > Absolutely nothing of interest. Momma let you turn the computer back > on little man? > -- > Frank Tabor Frank, grow up and act like a man. People here have basically told you how badly you are wrong. You just get your drawers in a wad because someone came back with correct answers. This my ***** is bigger than yours is getting old. The only reason I don't killfile you is to protect myself from your sniping. If you don't agree with me, so be it. This NG is about camping, not flaming one another. What's you favorite campground? Will you two just shut up already! You are spoiling what was pretty much a very civil group. Throw insults at each other off of the group, if you have to argue. "HeatMan" <heatair@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> > "Frank Tabor" <frank@nospamtaborsonline.com> >My mother passed away a few years ago, if that's your question. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >What's you favorite campground? No one here has proved me wrong, you have called me a liar and you don't have the balls to back it up. You prove to me that my air conditioner isn't putting out 45 degree air with intake air at 95 degrees. You can't prove it. I don't know, nor do I care what your credentials are. To me you're just another pimple on a real AC man's a.s. You're probably one of Dave's sock puppets. So go the f.ck away. Until you prove me wrong, you're the real a.shole. Don 't go calling folks liars unless you can back it up. SignatureFrank Tabor > >My mother passed away a few years ago, if that's your question. > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > a.shole. Don 't go calling folks liars unless you can back it up. > -- Drop it Frank. Let's just agree to disagree. You're just trying to keep some stuff going that should have been dropped last week. I know that I'm right and you are convinced that you're right. Leave it at that. The starting temperature in my trailer is 85. After running for 5 minutes the outlet temperture will reach 50 degrees. The air conditioner will run till the inlet temperature reads about 74. (This is all on the coolest settings) but then it shuts off and won't turn on again till the inlet temperature reaches around 78. Frank, This is encouraging. I just had a brand new Carrier 13000 BTU unit installed on my popup and I am hoping to get this sort of output from it. Regards, Wayne Moses, Houston, Texas Dutchmen Duck 801D 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8l > Frank, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Dutchmen Duck 801D > 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8l Wayne, just so you'll know, Frankie ain't got a clue. >> Frank, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Wayne, just so you'll know, Frankie ain't got a clue. Heatman is a 12 year old spanking his monkey and pretending to be some one he isn't. Grow up boy. Tell your momma to turn the computer off and run your a.s outside. SignatureFrank Tabor Geez kids, can't we all just get along...? I've been getting a good laugh out of the 2-year-old child bantering that's been going on around here lately... :-) Lol... > >Wayne, just so you'll know, Frankie ain't got a clue. > > Heatman is a 12 year old spanking his monkey and pretending to be some > one he isn't. Grow up boy. Tell your momma to turn the computer off > and run your a.s outside. Good point Wayne. Arguing with Frank is like trying to teach a pig to sing. Even though you know what you're doing, the pig won't learn. > Geez kids, can't we all just get along...? I've been getting a good laugh > out of the 2-year-old child bantering that's been going on around here > lately... :-) Lol... > > > >Wayne, just so you'll know, Frankie ain't got a clue. <snip> > Where'd you learn your HVAC? Pedophile Dave's HVAC School? http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/compost.htm Austin SignatureColeman Bayside behind a Chevy Astro. No, not without a Reese Mini-350 WDH! There are no X characters in my address > <snip> > > > Where'd you learn your HVAC? Pedophile Dave's HVAC School? > > http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/compost.htm Drop it, Austin. I have the credentials that Frank has no clue about. > Austin > -- > Coleman Bayside behind a Chevy Astro. > No, not without a Reese Mini-350 WDH! > There are no X characters in my address >Drop it, Austin. I have the credentials that Frank has no clue about. You don't have sh.t, little man. SignatureFrank Tabor > >Drop it, Austin. I have the credentials that Frank has no clue about. > > You don't have sh.t, little man. > -- Oh, he using foul language. Didn't you know that unlearned people use foul language to impress people and learned people let their knowledge shine through in the facts they know? > > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Drop it, Austin. I have the credentials that Frank has no clue about. So sorry. Instead of being compost, you must be blowhard: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/blowhard.htm Sorry about the misidentification. Austin > > > <snip> > > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sorry about the misidentification. And I need to apologize to you. I jumped at what you said, not realizing you were making a funny. BTW, I don't click on links in NG's any more, so I have no clue (and no desire to know) what you're talking about inyour link. > > > > > Where'd you learn your HVAC? Pedophile Dave's HVAC School? > > > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > BTW, I don't click on links in NG's any more, so I have no clue (and no > desire to know) what you're talking about inyour link. That's one link you should click...I laughed for a good while at those caricatures... :-) Wesley <snip> > > So sorry. Instead of being compost, you must be blowhard: > > http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/blowhard.htm [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And I need to apologize to you. I jumped at what you said, not realizing > you were making a funny. I've identified myself in several of the characters, depending on the circumstances. I think this time I was Evil Clown. > BTW, I don't click on links in NG's any more, so I have no clue (and no > desire to know) what you're talking about inyour link. Believe me, I understand. Once followed a link to some photos of "aircraft damage" in an aviation newsgroup, and found my screen (on my work PC, no less) filled with hundreds of XXX photos. I found out later that the audio said "Hey, check this out. I'm looking at gay porn" fairly loud. Now I look for how others react to a link before I follow it. Austin > <snip> > > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Now I look for how others react to a link before I follow it. The one that did it for me was tubgirl.com with one of my kids looking over my shoulder... NASTY. |
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