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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / September 2005Centurion converter
My 98 Viking pop-up has a Centurion converter (115VAC -> 12V DC). While camping last week, it stopped working. Luckily, on this trip we had decided to take a 115 VAC small table lamp for better lighting when playing cards in the evening. Good thing - otherwise we would only have had lighting at night from the cutesy light string that hangs from the awning. [Funny thing, the next night the fuse in that string's plug blew as well - but there is a replacement fuse in the plug body.] Anyway, after much swearing and effort the next day, I was able to disassemble the unit, and found that the 4A 250 V quick blow fuse on the circuit board had blown. Of course, in rural Indiana (Quakertown campground on Brookville lake) no one within 20 miles had a replacement 20mm X 5 mm fuse. Now, at home, a correct replacement fuse still blows, with all DC circuits disconnected (fuses removed). I will completely disassemble the thing now, but suspect that I will not find an easily fixable cause of the failure. My question: Should I buy a supposedly better replacement unit which fits in the same opening, made by WFCO (see: www.bestconverters.com) for $118, or should I buy a replacement unit made by Centurion, plus at least one unit more for a spare, available, new, on e-bay for under $30 each (which sells new from the company for $129!)? The WFCO unit has a three stage battery charging circuit built in - but I do not have a battery. We only camp using 115 VAC & propane. I have read on-line that Centurion converters have a high failure rate. Thoughts? 2 units for under 30$ each... I'd go for that, plus it gives you spare parts! Mel tobe a écrit: > My 98 Viking pop-up has a Centurion converter (115VAC -> 12V DC). While > camping last week, it stopped working. Luckily, on this trip we had decided [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Thoughts? <snip> > My question: Should I buy a supposedly better replacement unit which fits > in the same opening, made by WFCO (see: www.bestconverters.com) for $118, or > should I buy a replacement unit made by Centurion, plus at least one unit > more for a spare, available, new, on e-bay for under $30 each (which sells > new from the company for $129!)? Is that the 25 amp WFCO (World Friendship Co.) unit? I have had one in service for about 2 years without a problem. It replaced a Fleetwood-installed converter, don't know the brand. I paid just under $200 (US), so it sounds like you got the better deal. But we were living in the pop-up at the time (waiting for our house to close) and had to have one _now_ at any price. Austin "AustinMN" > > Is that the 25 amp WFCO (World Friendship Co.) unit? I have had one in > service for about 2 years without a problem. It replaced a > Fleetwood-installed converter, don't know the brand. I paid just under > $200 (US), so it sounds like you got the better deal. But we were > living in the pop-up at the time (waiting for our house to close) and > had to have one _now_ at any price. Sorry. I had the URL wrong. It is www.bestconverter.com (no 's' on converter). The WFCO 25 amp unit is $127 - $137 if you want it metal instead of plastic. I have actually seen it advertised for a few dollars less other places on-line. Fleetwood formerly used Centurion converters, but switched to WFCO in about 2002, I read. I am not convinced that this is a better converter or company. My reading has shown me that most low end converters/chargers are pretty much cheap junk, especially with respect to safely re-charging batteries. However, decent converter/chargers begin at over $200, and have more power than a pop-up would ever need (i.e. 40+ amps at 12 V DC). My 12 amp broken centurion unit has 4 DC output circuits (actually one wire to 4 fuses). Each circuit has a 15 amp blade type of fuse in it. Hmmm. Maximum total output 12 amps but a 15 amp fuse in 4 different circuits. So what is the 15 amp fuse protecting? I took the broken converter out of the pop-up and took the circuit board out of the unit. No obvious shorts, broken components, or loose solder joints. With my simple DC voltmeter, I did read 8 ohms across the empty 4 amp fuse prongs. That would mean 14 amps at 110 volts (I = V/R). Yeah, I know AC circuitry is different, but I think a capacitor is fried. No easy way to tell without unsoldering things from the circuit board and testing them. NWTH (Not Worth The Hassle) I thought about just building a simple bridge rectifier circuit and popping it in the Centurion unit in place of their more complicated circuit board. After all, most of the time the DC is used for simple lights...and the propane detector. However, I worried that the furnace might need a better regulated power supply, with less ripple and more voltage stability. I don't want to damage that unit. Besides, these days the components, especially the transformer, cost more than it is worth. Radio Shack has a 12 V (13.8V) 15 amp switching regulated power supply for $80 which would certainly do the trick for what I need. However: I decided to get a cheap replacement 12 amp Centurion unit on e-bay, and currently have a bid of $15.50 on one (shipping is about $12). If it works, I will get another unit as a back-up & keep it in storage, and still save $$. Tobe >Fleetwood formerly used Centurion converters, but switched to WFCO in about >2002, I read. I am not convinced that this is a better converter or >company. My reading has shown me that most low end converters/chargers are >pretty much cheap junk, especially with respect to safely re-charging >batteries. However, decent converter/chargers begin at over $200, and have >more power than a pop-up would ever need (i.e. 40+ amps at 12 V DC). You got it. 40A is nice to have for quick battery recharging, but you probably will never need that much 12V for lights+furnace. And if you're charging batteries like the two I have, you would be better off with a three stage intelligent converter/charger like Progressive Dynamics Intellipower 9100 and their Charge Wizard >My 12 amp broken centurion unit has 4 DC output circuits (actually one wire >to 4 fuses). Each circuit has a 15 amp blade type of fuse in it. Hmmm. >Maximum total output 12 amps but a 15 amp fuse in 4 different circuits. So >what is the 15 amp fuse protecting? It's protecting the wires and the entire popup from the extremely unlikely failure mode where the converter puts 120VAC on the 12V output distribution panel! An internal step-down transformer short could do that, and not be limited to 12A. >I took the broken converter out of the pop-up and took the circuit board out >of the unit. No obvious shorts, broken components, or loose solder joints. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >tell without unsoldering things from the circuit board and testing them. >NWTH (Not Worth The Hassle) Exactly. If you ever want to go boondocking with a battery, you might consider an upgrade to a decent converter/charger. >I thought about just building a simple bridge rectifier circuit and popping >it in the Centurion unit in place of their more complicated circuit board. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >don't want to damage that unit. Besides, these days the components, >especially the transformer, cost more than it is worth. Too true. >Radio Shack has a 12 V (13.8V) 15 amp switching regulated power supply for >$80 which would certainly do the trick for what I need. However: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I will get another unit as a back-up & keep it in storage, and still save >$$. Good solution for your purposes.  SignatureBill "the Roadie" Carton My parents have an old 1971 Terry travel trailer that doesn't even have a converter - it relies on the tow vehicle for charging. Dad went out and bought one of those 1/2 amp battery charger/maintainer units that cuts off when the battery reaches a full charge. He just mounted it on the trailer and leaves it there. It seems to do a fine job of keeping the battery charged. When camping and using battery lights, it just kicks on as needed to keep the battery charged - so it to some degree uses the battery and then re-charges it immediately. Of course with theirs, there are as many 110v lights in the trailer as there are 12v lights, so they aren't as dependent on 12v current as those of us with newer trailers are. Plus, the furnace doesn't work, so about all they use are the lights and water pump when dry camping - theirs uses an air compressor to pressurize the system - not like the newer demand systems. Anyway, I've been pondering putting one of those on our trailer (83 Prowler) and rigging it so that I can either have it running or the existing converter. That way if I ever needed the ouput of the converter while camping I could use it, but otherwise the 1/2 amp unit would keep the battery maintained without boiling off all the water - which seems to be what the on-board unit wants to slowly do if left plugged in. Plus, cheaper than a proper 3-stage converter/charger unit. Any thoughts? Thanks, Wesley > "AustinMN" > > > Is that the 25 amp WFCO (World Friendship Co.) unit? I have had one in [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Radio Shack has a 12 V (13.8V) 15 amp switching regulated power supply for > $80 which would certainly do the trick for what I need. However: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tobe > Anyway, I've been pondering putting one of those > [trickle charger] on our trailer (83 Prowler) A 1/2-amp charger is almost NO charger. As you expect, it will MAINTAIN the level of charge of a camper battery but cannot be expected to provide any serious current. IOW, when you put the camper back into storage, make sure the battery is fully filled and charged as appropriate. Then, the trickle charger will KEEP the battery at that level of charge. As you said, this arrangement is MUCH cheaper than a "three stage" charger, but certainly not as convenient. When the converter on my entry level TT died, I sprung for a 45-amp "smart" converter (it included the accessory chip/module). I keep the camper plugged-in during storage ALL the time and have noticed NO loss of electrolyte. When "dry" camping with my Honda EU2000i generator, I simply connect the camper cord to the generator. During the few times that I run the genset during the day, the onboard (new) converter knows to put the "big" charge to the camper's 12VDC Group 31 battery. "Dry" camping with a generator, an incredibly QUIET one at that, and I am pleased to announce that the joy of dry camping is BACK with a vengeance - WITHOUT the requisite, nagging dread that I must find some place or somehow to recharge the battery. :) JR Signature2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 Jim Redelfs a écrit: > "Dry" camping with a generator, Is camping with a generator considere Dry Camping? hummm good question! Mel > Is camping with a generator considere Dry Camping? You're right. That IS a good question that I haven't considered - until now. It *IS* "dry" camping, even if using a generator. Is a generator not just another "system" that adds to the "self contained" aspect of an RV? I have RUNNING water in my rig, yet if there isn't a water faucet in sight, it is still called DRY camping! I enjoy the conveniences of hot running water (take a shower), flush toilet and thermostat-controlled gas-fired forced-air furnace, all because of a 12VDC battery and supply of liquified petroleum gas (LP/propane). This is all done with NO sign of civilization within sight (wilderness) or at the far end of a Sam's Club parking lot. The genset, along with everything else, leaves when breaking camp. The most work of the EU2000i http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/eu2000.htm is stowing it in my garage between outings, and that's MY "fault". Since the unit is SO portable and so VERY red, it can be more easily stolen. Against this possibility, I place it on a high, top shelf in the garage. At 53-lbs, this is no easy task. If someone were to spot it while I left the garage door open to mow the back yard, they would have to be LOOKING for it. It would then take a stepladder to retrieve (steal) the genny. When trying to sustain a dry camping setup at Yellowstone, my biggest challenge was finding a place to RECHARGE the battery. Especially when using the furnace overnight (no hookups in sight and no generator), there was always this slightly nagging distraction in the back of my brain: How many more nights can I safely get out of the battery before I have to REMOVE it and find a place to recharge it? That little bother is now gone completely. After ALL THESE YEARS visiting the same Iowa State Park a couple of times http://www.iowadnr.com/parks/state_park_list/wilson_island.html during a season, I no longer camp on a defined, gravelled site with electric hookup. I now occupy a HUGE, treed site back against a hedgerow that defines a group campsite football field. My camper is probably 70-80-feet off the road! This is GREAT for seclusion and the improved safety of children. Getting the generator and the portable macerator (waste) pump for my camper/camping are easily the two of the BEST accessories I have added over the years. http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=26125&src=SRQB :) JR Isn't it awfully noisy? camping with a generator on all the time - or do you just put it on at specific times??? pardon my ignorance but I'm just new to this idea - I've camped for years in a variety of ways - tents - trailors - tent trailors - and we just recently returned to tent trailors with the purchase of a used one - and we have many times camped where there are no hook ups at all but any who brought generators into those places were not much appreciated by their neighbours - their comfort came at a high cost to their neighbours - unless you can give me information I'm not aware of - to make them quiet enough to use! I'd love it if I could - but if they're noisy I just can't justify it. Claire > > Is camping with a generator considere Dry Camping? > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > :) > JR > Isn't it awfully noisy? No. In fact, probably more than 1/3 the price I paid for the machine was for the R&D (research and development) that makes these generators almost "quiet". I paid $1000US a year ago for this 1600-watt (2000 peak surge) machine. There are MANY, other brands and models, offering greater output, for LESS $$. I paid for quiet. I got it. While it is running at full speed, two people can stand RIGHT NEXT to it and hold a "normal" conversation. > camping with a generator on all the time - or do you > just put it on at specific times??? I have camped using the generator probably only 3 or 4 times. So I don't really have much "history" to know what may become a routine for me. It rarely runs and NEVER during quiet hours. Beyond that, and ALWAYS concerned for how its use may affect others, I have run it a couple of times in the A.M. to make a pot of drip coffee and three slices of toast. Also, occasionally, for less than 15 minutes, to put a good charge on the camper battery. > we have many times camped where there are no hook ups at all > but any who brought generators into those places were not much > appreciated by their neighbours That is unacceptable. The biggest camping rule in MY book is to not disturb others. Many folks camp in "primitive" sites for the relative seclusion and QUIET it offers. Remember, however, that such sites are often MUCH further apart than in a campground loop with defined sites. They are often separated by dense foliage, earth berms and other noise-reducing features. Combine that with VERY modest operation of probably the world's quietest genset and I don't expect a problem. I haven't caused one yet. :) > their comfort came at a high cost to their neighbours Again, that is unacceptable. Running a generator CONSTANTLY, no matter HOW quiet, no matter if done outside Quiet Hours (Loud Hours?), demonstrates a rather cavalier attitude toward ones fellow campers. I intentionally got a generator that CANNOT run the camper's air conditioner. If it is SOOOO hot that I can't camp without air conditioning I can either find a hookup or STAY HOME. If you scan back a few days/weeks in this group, you can read an article I posted about a VERY presumptious, would-be generator user that camped near me. The difference in noise pressure between their virtually mufflerless, clattering, glorified lawnmower (generator) and mine is like night and day. And the camper had the unmitigated GALL to ask the ranger to ask me if *I* would mind if he ran this thing ALL NIGHT! Nope. Didn't happen. > unless you can give me information http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/eu1000.htm http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/eu2000.htm > I'm not aware of - to make them quiet enough to use! I'd love it if I > could - but if they're noisy I just can't justify it. The next time you are camping, LOOK for someone using this brand and model of "ultra quiet" generator. You won't really HEAR one. Ask the user about it. I can assure you s/he'll be PROUD to show it off - running! :) JR > Isn't it awfully noisy? camping with a generator on all the time - or do you > just put it on at specific times??? Claire, I camp with a Honda EU 1000. I use it to keep the batteries charged up. They are expensive. Mine was $650 three years ago. But they are worth it. I run it from 1 to 4 (when most campers are away) every other day . I chain it to the back of the camper and standing at the front of the campsite it can hardly be heard. I do chain it because at 35lbs it could easily walk away if I didn't. HTH, Keith Thanks - fellows - good information for me - i like to camp at forestry camp sites - back roads sites and the like and the use of a generator would be very nice - as long as it doesn't compromise anyone else's enjoyment - I'll sure look into them I've printed off your emails so that I can have the facts when I go shopping. Claire > > Isn't it awfully noisy? camping with a generator on all the time - or do > you [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > HTH, > Keith
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