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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / September 2005Got the new trailer... questions
OK, we got the 2000 Kiwi23c. We're in love, of course. The rig does everything we had wanted... plenty of space for the boys and some privacy for us. It tows well, our Safari conversion does very well indeed with it. I rather expected that it would. It won't break any speed barriers when in tow, but I'm quite comfortable with the thing, even in traffic, which I thought I wouldn't be. Let's get some basic towing equipment considerations out of the way. I'm running Reese Firction anti-sway, and Reese load balancers to my class 4 hitch. I've found that the thing actually rides smoother on washboards and such with the trailer than without it. I always wondered how much the dist control did... now I'm convinced. I've run the thing in a stiff rainstorm on a dark, windy night (on our first trip, no less!) and never once felt out of control. Smooooth. I'm currently hanging quite a bit of chain from the dist bars... 4 links, whereas the dealer started me on three... and wondered aloud if I'd have to go to four. The question here is how much is TOO much? How do I know when I've gone too far? I should say, that in this config, I'm not dropping the tail of the truck at all... amazing, given this truck tends to ride pretty low in the first place. (I'm running the Mono composite single leaf, with only about three and a half inches of ride hight off the bump stop... which this current trailer config moves not at all.) The dist bars squawk and groan when turning. Is it OK to grease the points on the hitch end? (Yes, I know enough not to grease the friction bar!) Secondly; The Brake Controler. I'm running a Tekonsha Envoy. It seems to do it's job pretty well, once the brakes warm up, and things thereby smooth out a bit. A little weird till then, but you get used to it. Once things do warm up,it's predictable and I never feel I'm out of control with it. However, I find myself fighting a balance point all the time with the thing. It's either not cutting in hard enough based on pedal action, or, if I adjust for that, and get that part working well, it releases too suddenly, when I release the pedal, resulting in a whiplash effect in the van. Is this simply the nature of the beast? Thirdly; The end bunk seals. Figures; the day we'd planned to take the new rig on it's first trip... about 40 miles away, was a Friday... we'd planned on pulling out around 5pm. While we were at work, we had a massive rainstorm. I mean, I've seen perhaps five rainstorms like this around here in my 50 years. Of course, we got the beds wet, despite the fact that we were in tow mode... We managed to get things dry enough to live with, but still, there was enough water to be concerned about water damage. Are the end seals an issue with the Kiwis? Beds: Lots more room than in our old popper. However, we're considering air mattresses for a couple reasons. Anyone in here can speak to the type of air mattresses best for this purpose? The only ones we've found so far put us about two inches off the ceiling. Fresh water tank stinks. I've shocked it, pertty heavily, and run some baking soda through it, and that helped a bit, but not quite there yet. Anyone have a trick to pass on here? City water feed. Advise on a pressure regulator, please. Similarly, is there anyone wiling to offer advise on a filtration system for the city connection? On the black and grey tanks, I'm curious about treatment for these. Spare tire and wheel. Our rig doesn't have one. Not smart, in my view. It does have a class three type receiver, though, so I wonder if I might find a spare tire mount to go there, that can fold out of the way when in camp mode? I'm sure I'll have more questions, biut perhaps this is enough to start with. /Bit The instructions that came with my hitch (Hidden Hitch) said to measure the distance from the ground to the top edge of the wheel wells on the unloaded tow vehicle. Then hook up and drop what ever number of links needed to get the front reading the same. That way you have the same steerage control that you would have as when "unloaded". In my case I drop 5 links, but I have very stiff bars (ie. Rated for a much heavier load than my trailer) Dale . > OK, we got the 2000 Kiwi23c. > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > /Bit > I'm currently hanging quite a bit of chain from the dist bars... 4 > links, whereas the dealer started me on three... and wondered aloud if > I'd have to go to four. The question here is how much is TOO much? How > do I know when I've gone too far? With the trailer unhitched measure the front and rear wheel well clearance to the ground. Now hitch up and remeasure. The tow main thing you want is for the front of the tow vehicle to drop. If the clearance is now higher on the front of the tow vehicle then the chains are set too loose. The ideal situation is for the front and rear to drop the same amount. In my experience its common for the rear to still drop slightly more than the front. Once the clearances are acceptable note the spring bars in relation to the trailers frame. They should be fairly parallel. If they aren't then the hitch ball angle may be set wrong. Typically the ball should be set at about a 6 degree down angle. > OK, we got the 2000 Kiwi23c. Congratulations!!! > Secondly; The Brake Controler. > I'm running a Tekonsha Envoy. It seems to do it's job pretty well, once [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > too suddenly, when I release the pedal, resulting in a whiplash effect > in the van. Is this simply the nature of the beast? I swear by the Tekonsha Prodigy controller. Proportional and fully adjustable. I have mine set to gently apply trailer brakes as soon as the brake light comes on but before the g-force sensor detects any actual stopping. > Fresh water tank stinks. I've shocked it, pertty heavily, and run some > baking soda through it, and that helped a bit, but not quite there yet. > Anyone have a trick to pass on here? I've heard that the stuff for home brewing does pretty good but haven't tried it myself. > City water feed. Advise on a pressure regulator, please. Similarly, is > there anyone wiling to offer advise on a filtration system for the city > connection? Get a preset brass one. I leave it on the FW hose so I never lose it. > On the black and grey tanks, I'm curious about treatment for these. Get an all-in-one deoderant-digester type without formaldehyde. Some parks and campgrounds don't like formaldehyde being dumped in their septic systems. > Spare tire and wheel. Our rig doesn't have one. Not smart, in my view. > It does have a class three type receiver, though, so I wonder if I might > find a spare tire mount to go there, that can fold out of the way when > in camp mode? Don't leave home with out one! Happy Camping! Warren '93 Ford Explorer Tekonsha Prodigy '96 Starcraft 1224 with lots o' mod's. > > Fresh water tank stinks. I've shocked it, pertty heavily, and run some > > baking soda through it, and that helped a bit, but not quite there yet. > > Anyone have a trick to pass on here? > I've heard that the stuff for home brewing does pretty good but haven't > tried it myself. I use vinegar. It seems to neutralize the residual chlorine odor pretty well. > > City water feed. Advise on a pressure regulator, please. Similarly, is > > there anyone wiling to offer advise on a filtration system for the city > > connection? > Get a preset brass one. I leave it on the FW hose so I never lose it. They've gotten cheaper. Here's a preset (45psi) from Camping World that's less than $9. http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=26191 It looks like they're not carrying those made by Marshall Brass anymore. http://www.marshallbrass.com/rv.htm After many years of 1week/yr use, my regulator died and I never replaced it. So far, the only hookup I use is docked next to my house. We have poor (low) water pressure. However, I am going back to a full-hookup site next year for our annual family campout so I'd better get one. I'm going to get a preset one WITHOUT the gauge. > > On the black and grey tanks, I'm curious about treatment for these. > Get an all-in-one deodorant-digester type without formaldehyde. Some parks > and campgrounds don't like formaldehyde being dumped in their septic systems. It's true, although I've never stayed at one - so far. The West Omaha KOA has a sign that prohibits dumping formaldehyde-treated waste. I'm sure there are more. When my supply of Aqua-Kem http://www.thetford.com/sanitation_deodrants.cfm#akbrand runs out, I'm going to buy some Odorlos. http://www.odorlos.com/index.html I tried some that I received as a promotion with an order from Camping World. I found it to work well. I tried the nice-smelling Monsanto Envirochem but had it <ahem> crap out during a particularly HOT week. If you want to absolutely NUKE your black water holding tank, nothing beats good, ole Aqua-Kem. I suspect it is the "General Motors" of holding tank treatments. Formaldehyde is NOT the EVIL chemical some think. It is biodegradable. The prohibition on formaldehyde as RV waste treatment is due to its effectiveness. It KILLS all bacteria. Given that, if it's introduced in sufficient quantity to an otherwise nominally operating septic system, it can "kill" the septic process. That, of course, is NOT a Good Thing<tm>. > > Spare tire and wheel. Our rig doesn't have one. Not smart, in my view. > Don't leave home with out one! Amen. If nothing else, a spare is insurance that you won't need it. If you DON'T have one, of course, you'll have a tire failure MUCH sooner! :) JR >>>Spare tire and wheel. Our rig doesn't have one. Not smart, in my view. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > :) > JR No argument, here, Jim... the question is how to mopunt the thing. We've done a couple weekend trips with it, but nothing more than a half-hour out of our driveway... just shakedown runs. Nothing we'll get in major trouble for in a malfunction. That's not gonna cut it next season, though. I don't think I can mount a spare on the hitch, given the battery and the twin gas tanks up there. You know the state of the storage doors... that's out. Only thing I can think of is some kind of mount to use with the receiver on the back bumper of the trailer. Trouble with THAT is that in camp mode, that kinda thing's gonne get in the way, unless it fold over or something. Gonna be a project, getting all of what we need, I think. > No argument, here, Jim... the question is how to mopunt the thing. It's a hybrid, right? I've never look specifically for THAT, but surely they shove SOME of their new models out the door with a spare tire. How does the FACTORY mount/store the spare tire? That is, of course, assuming it IS available as an option when new. If there ISN'T insufficient room to lower the rear bunk with a conventionally mounted spare, one would think there would be an articulated mount that can be released and folded down (released with a clevis & cotter pin). If there isn't such a device, there SHOULD be. (Here goes ANOTHER opportunity I'll ignore. <sigh>) :) JR > > > Spare tire and wheel. Our rig doesn't have one. Not smart, in my view. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If nothing else, a spare is insurance that you won't need it. If you DON'T > have one, of course, you'll have a tire failure MUCH sooner! Just keep an eye on it...lest you get 30 years down the road on a hot day with a blown tire and a half-flat spare with dry-rot cracks deeper than the tread with an hour (or more) of driving left to get home... :-) Wesley So we're on the first day of a 15-day trip from Ohio to Arizona, heading to Nashville for a couple of nights in our 3-year old pop-up. We switch drivers in a gas station somewhere in Kentucky and about ten minutes down the road, the Escape starts lurching and I notice the pop-up bouncing around in the rear view mirror. It's a nice sunny day so we pull over at the bottom of a hill on I-71. It turns out the passenger side pop-up tire is flat. No problem. We've never tried to change a tire but there's a brand spanking new one on the back. We break out the Escape's jack, never having used it before either, and jack up the pop-up. Oops, it's about an inch short at full extension and we can't get the spare on. I look around and find a small chunk of concrete about 2" by 4" by 2" and flat on both sides. Obviously a piece of pavement or something. We put the rock under the jack, get the spare on, notice it has a bent rim, keep our lucky rock and take off. This time my wife decides to drive. We go an hour or two and we're at the bottom of the entrance ramp to Munford, KY and the pop-up starts jumping around again. It's now about 5:30 PM. We check and sure enough, the brand spanking new spare is flat. The bottom half of the valve stem is still in the rim but the metal part has blasted off for points unknown. We limp up the ramp, wondering what kind of omen this is at the start of a two-week trip and pull into the gas station at the top of the ramp. The woman there tells us the Citgo on the other side of I-71 has a lot of tires and a mechanic on duty! We beat it over there and of course, they don't have this little tire. They are very nice and call all over the place for us, the WalMart, the U-Haul, some boating stores, but no one has a tire. Finally the guy at Big O Tires suggests going over to the new Tractor Supply Company in Glasgow, about 30 miles away. They're not in the phone book, so we cruise on over, speculating about where to spend the night. It's now about 6:45 PM. Lo and behold, they have two of the tires! They even have one of the rims, but it's got a small tire already mounted on it. I shell out $168 for the two spares and the rim and we head back to Munford. The mechanic takes the too-small tire off the rim and puts on one of the new ones. He takes the bad spare off its rim and puts another new tire on its rim. I give him the too-small tire and he says "no charge" because the tire was worth more than he was going to charge. We put on a good tire, mount our newly repaired spare and take off again for Nashville. It's now getting dark and apprehensive is too mild a word to use for how we were feeling. About four hours later, we get to Nashville and pull into the campground. It's less than 1,000 feet from a Camping World store. <sigh> If you're reading this from the Munford KY area, THANKS!!!!!! Ray > > If nothing else, a spare is insurance that you won't need it. If you > DON'T > > have one, of course, you'll have a tire failure MUCH sooner! Snip about tire going flat.... > No problem. We've never tried to change a tire but there's a brand > spanking [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > spare on, notice it has a bent rim, keep our lucky rock and take off. This > time my wife decides to drive. This brings out a good point that wont hurt to be put out again... Make sure you try changing a tire at HOME before you leave with the PU. Your TV jack may get the flat off, but may not have the lift required to put the new one on; and, you may not have a lug wrench that fits the trailer lugs. Found out both of these things luckily in my driveway, rather than on the road..... Gerry 99 Mesa--for sale, email me 01 Sporttrac > Snip about tire going flat.... > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 99 Mesa--for sale, email me > 01 Sporttrac So true, Gerry. Now, I should say that we solved that issue before we bought the trailer. The truck I drive is modified, and the stock jack doesn't work well with it. I've seen better ground clearance on a fat woodchuck. Anyway, we have a total of three jacks on the truck at all times, towing or not, as a result... a scissors jack that'll go just about flat... and a 2 ton hydraulic. I've used both in trailering situations, over the years. Once, when the lounge jack failed (damn near taking my foot off in the process). After my heart rate went back to normal, I used the hydraulic as a means of getting the trailer up in the ball, so I could limp home with it. I wonder how much that happens. It has never happened to me but I was always leery of rachet jacks. Do you know that some VW jacks dont have rachets...they have a smooth heavy rod with no visible means of support? LOL TS > I've used both in trailering situations, over the years. Once, when the > lounge jack failed (damn near taking my foot off in the process). After my > heart rate went back to normal, I used the hydraulic as a means of getting > the trailer up in the ball, so I could limp home with it. >I've used both in trailering situations, over the years. Once, when the >lounge jack failed (damn near taking my foot off in the process). After >my heart rate went back to normal, I used the hydraulic as a means of >getting the trailer up in the ball, so I could limp home with it. I didn't tighten the dolly wheel bracket enough one time and the tongue fell to the ground. I had bought a scissor jack for the trailer and was able to lift it up enough to re-install the wheel assembly. I've also used the scissor jack to change a flat tire on my popup as well. Relying on a car jack to take care of a trailer is probably not a good idea.... Mark Filice 2004 Homestead Settler 255RS 1999 Chevrolet Suburban 2500 2000 Dodge Ram 1500 "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't" > I'm currently hanging quite a bit of chain from the dist bars... 4 > links, whereas the dealer started me on three... and wondered aloud if [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > hight off the bump stop... which this current trailer config moves not > at all.) As others have said the idea is to get the tow vehicle back to level. Select the links accordingly. > The dist bars squawk and groan when turning. Is it OK to grease the > points on the hitch end? (Yes, I know enough not to grease the friction > bar!) Yeah, grease them. > Secondly; The Brake Controler. > I'm running a Tekonsha Envoy. It seems to do it's job pretty well, once > the brakes warm up, and things thereby smooth out a bit. A little weird > till then, but you get used to it. Once things do warm up,it's > predictable and I never feel I'm out of control with it. > However, I find myself fighting a balance point all the time with the > thing. It's either not cutting in hard enough based on pedal action, > or, if I adjust for that, and get that part working well, it releases > too suddenly, when I release the pedal, resulting in a whiplash effect > in the van. Is this simply the nature of the beast? Envoy is a good control. Similar to the Prodigy but with out a few bells and whistles. I don't know what you mean by "pedal action". It is the rate of deceleration is what you are looking for. Ideally you want to be able to stop without the trailer either pushing or pulling on the tow vehicle. The trailer brakes will release when you are no longer slowing down. If you take your foot off the brakes pedal they will release immediately but your tow vehicle brakes also release. The control is not set properly if when you release the brake pedal the trailer affects the tow vehicle. If set correctly the trailer should not be pushing or pulling on the tow vehicle. Release of the brakes should be smooth. Unfortunately some brake pads are more sensitive to heat than others. Instructions are to make your settings with warm pads. Be certain that the control is mounted level horizontally and pointed in the direction of travel. Tilt is not terribly important. > Fresh water tank stinks. I've shocked it, pertty heavily, and run some > baking soda through it, and that helped a bit, but not quite there yet. > Anyone have a trick to pass on here? Vinegar is better than Baking Soda. Atwood suggests annual use of vinegar to clean their hot water tanks. Something like a gallon of Vinegar to 5 gallons of water and let stand for 24 hours. > City water feed. Advise on a pressure regulator, please. I found that the one sold at WalMart works fine. > On the black and grey tanks, I'm curious about treatment for these. Never treated them but do a good job flushing out the black. You don't want any "black pyramids" One of those wands that you stick down the toilet does a good job. They have a hole at the end of the stick. I also drilled one so it squirts to the side. >>Secondly; The Brake Controler. >>I'm running a Tekonsha Envoy. It seems to do it's job pretty well, once [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > able to stop without the trailer either pushing or pulling on the tow > vehicle. (nod) Perhaps it's an unreasonable precondition I'm mentally setting, here. I usually tend to ramp in and out of the brakes pretty slowly, when I'm not towing. It was simply the way I was taught to do it, and I've never had reason to question the style. When towing with trailer brakes, my mind wants to feel a slight tug from the trailer on the leading edge of any braking action. When I've got it set fairly aggressively on power, it works well, that way. Trouble is, with the power set that high, the trailer brakes don';t ramp off slowly, but rather suddenly when the brake lights go off. > The trailer brakes will release when you are no longer slowing down. If you > take your foot off the brakes pedal they will release immediately but your [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Unfortunately some brake pads are more sensitive to heat than others. > Instructions are to make your settings with warm pads. Which may be part of the balance issue, here. Certainly, stone cold brakes require different handling. But when you've been rolling steady for an hour they're nearly as cold, or seemingly so, and require some tuning on the power /G force ratios again. > Be certain that the control is mounted level horizontally and pointed in the > direction of travel. Tilt is not terribly important. All set there. >>Fresh water tank stinks. I've shocked it, pertty heavily, and run some >>baking soda through it, and that helped a bit, but not quite there yet. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > does a good job. They have a hole at the end of the stick. I also drilled > one so it squirts to the side. Hmm. Interesting idea. Thanks, everyone. >Beds: Lots more room than in our old popper. However, we're >considering >air mattresses for a couple reasons. Anyone in here can speak to >the >type of air mattresses best for this purpose? The only ones we've >found >so far put us about two inches off the ceiling. This summer I camped in a tent (long story). Being used to a popup, I wanted a comfortable bed, so I bought a very good air matress. It very comfortably at Custer State Park (though I missed the popup). Then we headed up to glacier NP. The low was in the low 40s, which shouldnt be challenging at all. I have camped to the high teens in our popup, without hookups, and not running the heater at night. I froze!! There is no insulation in air matresses. So unless you plan on keeping your kiwi pretty warm, i would abandon the idea of air matresses!! >>Beds: Lots more room than in our old popper. However, we're >considering >>air mattresses for a couple reasons. Anyone in here can speak to >the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > is no insulation in air matresses. So unless you plan on keeping your > kiwi pretty warm, i would abandon the idea of air matresses!! Well, the idea is a cusion to replace the existing ones in the trailer... ones that we can remove from the bed boards, and keep wrapped up somewhere dry, ya see.... > I froze!! There is no insulation in air matresses. That was my experience with what turned out to be my LAST tent (sleep on air mattress on the ground inside the tent) outing. I swear an air mattress SUCKS the heat out of the body. :) JR > Let's get some basic towing equipment considerations out of the way. > I'm running Reese Firction anti-sway, and Reese load balancers to my class [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > rainstorm on a dark, windy night (on our first trip, no less!) and never > once felt out of control. Smooooth. One *very* important thing to remember, which is also more than likely stated on your Reese friction anti-sway documentation, is to *ALWAYS* loosen the anti-sway bar during rainy, wet, icy, etc. conditions. >>Let's get some basic towing equipment considerations out of the way. >>I'm running Reese Firction anti-sway, and Reese load balancers to my class [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > stated on your Reese friction anti-sway documentation, is to *ALWAYS* loosen > the anti-sway bar during rainy, wet, icy, etc. conditions. True. I ran it, during that trip at perhaps half the usual level of resistance. I couldn't loosen the weight dist, of course. > One *very* important thing to remember, which is also more than likely > stated on your Reese friction anti-sway documentation, is to *ALWAYS* > loosen > the anti-sway bar during rainy, wet, icy, etc. conditions. Care to provide rationale? Not questioning it, just don't understand.  SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL >> One *very* important thing to remember, which is also more than likely >> stated on your Reese friction anti-sway documentation, is to *ALWAYS* >> loosen >> the anti-sway bar during rainy, wet, icy, etc. conditions. > > Care to provide rationale? Not questioning it, just don't understand. Simplest explanation is that a friction anti-sway bar is designed to resist any angle change between the tow vehicle and trailer; the devise tries to keep the trailer and tow vehicle in line. During wet and/or slippery conditions, there are times when you do want the tow vehicle's rear to slightly slip when driving on icy or slippery conditions to actually help control the vehicle. Bottom line is the anti-sway will not allow this to happen and allow a loss of control of both the tow vehicle and trailer. I do have a Hensley anti-sway control device and it specifically states on the shaft as a (quote) "WARNING" to loosen the bar during wet/slippery/icy conditions. > >> One *very* important thing to remember, which is also more than likely > >> stated on your Reese friction anti-sway documentation, is to *ALWAYS* [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Bottom line is the anti-sway will not allow this to happen and allow a loss > of control of both the tow vehicle and trailer. And the best "Anti-Sway" is still proper loading of the trailer. Too little weight on the tongue is a common problem. > I do have a Hensley anti-sway control device and it specifically states on > the shaft as a (quote) "WARNING" to loosen the bar during wet/slippery/icy > conditions. Is this a Hensley arrow hitch? For really serious cutting down of sway the Hensley or Pullrite hitch is a great investment. > And the best "Anti-Sway" is still proper loading of the trailer. Too > little > weight on the tongue is a common problem. Yep, IMO, a friction anti-sway device is a band-aid to what the real cure should be proper weight distribution in the trailer, proper tire inflation, proper tow vehicle, etc. >> I do have a Hensley anti-sway control device and it specifically states >> on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the > Hensley or Pullrite hitch is a great investment. OOPS!! My bad...my friction anti-sway is by Reese. Only used it once...and never used it again. $$Hensley$$ and $$Pullrite$$ are by far the most superior hitch receivers...if you can not faint with the sticker shock. :) > > And the best "Anti-Sway" is still proper loading of the trailer. Too > > little [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > superior hitch receivers...if you can not faint with the sticker shock. :) I went one step better. I got me a 5th wheel and Duramax to pull it. Would have been cheaper to buy the hitch <G>. "Rich256" <nospan@nospam.net> wrote in message news:ts1_e.322039 >> OOPS!! My bad...my friction anti-sway is by Reese. Only used it > once...and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Would > have been cheaper to buy the hitch <G>. Not by much hehehe
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