Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / October 2005
Is there a reliable and discounted online RV store?
|
|
Thread rating:  |
pcusa1984 - 30 Sep 2005 18:30 GMT Hi, I am new to this group and I love outdoor stuff. I just purchased an used 1993 Rockwood 1260 XL camper and would like to use it next summer with my 2000 Chevy venture. My chevy has a towing package but all I found was a socket connection with a group of wires. Of course, it must have a bigger radiator, etc. The camper is about 1900 lb and a axle of electric brake. I am thinking of a Tesheka Envoy for the brake controller (half price of Prodigy). I will need a 4+7 ways connector too if I want to DIY. Is there a reliable and discounted online RV store that I can purchase these? I know ebay has a lowest offer for Prodigy at $75+S+H. How about the wiring stuff?
Thanks,
PC
SQLit - 30 Sep 2005 18:48 GMT > Hi, > I am new to this group and I love outdoor stuff. I just purchased an [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > PC I am a tad confused with your statement. "My Chevy has a towing package but all I
> found was a socket connection with a group of wires. Of course, it > must have a bigger radiator, etc" Most towing packages include a larger radiator and trans cooler as standard equipment. Check the towing ratings in your manual and see what it says about the 1900 pounds. Sounds high to me even flat landing.
Ya my Chevy had the same crap when it came to the electrics. My Ford on the other hand was factory installed with both 4 and 7 wire plugs.
If you use a 7 wire connector then you really do not need the 4 especially since the 4 has no capacity for the electric breaks.
Jonathan - 30 Sep 2005 21:17 GMT Greetings,
If the socket you found with the wires was an irregular, non-standard plug, then that is the factory harness connector for an aftermarket electric brake controller. The wires splice to the wiring from the controller, and the connector plugs into the wiring panel up underneath the dash on the driver's side. Your vehicle should already be pre-wired for trailer brakes and lights, etc. but it may be all bundled together with electrical tape and tucked up under the rear of your truck so you may have to go looking for it.
The term "tow package" is often pretty misleading. There is a frequent misunderstanding with some vehicles that you have certain equipment like a larger radiator, etc. when often the correct term is "tow prep package" which can mean nothing more than pre-installed wiring for trailer lights and brakes. Larger radiators are not frequently part of towing packages, but if you are lucky you may get an auxillary transmission cooler, an engine oil cooler, and maybe even a stiffer suspension. If you have neither of these coolers then I highly recommend that you get both before you do any extensive towing. An aux. tranny cooler is expecially important for front wheel drive vehicles as they do not have a large amount of tranny fluid or cooling capacity for it as would a rear wheel drive style drive train. Don't assume that you have this equipment - check to make absolutely sure. If you don't, then an aux. tranny cooler is not expensive and cheap insurance.
On last thing - a towing package (whether from the factory or you add the equipment yourself) does not raise the towing capacity of your truck beyond what is stated in the manual. All it does is help protect your vehicle's drive train when you do tow. I recommend that you contact Chevy and see just exactly how much your van is rated to tow, and remember that every extra pound you load into the van reduces the max weight of the trailer you can tow by that much. Towing capacities are traditionally quoted for the vehicle with only the driver, one passenger and around 150lbs of luggage, although the builders seldom offer that explanation unless they are really pressed for it. I believe that the Venture is front wheel drive, and if so is not the best for towing. Chevy lists towing capacities for the 2004 Venture at 2000lbs standard and 3500lbs max, although I can't tell you what the difference is between "standard" and "max".
Here is a good link from Kelly Blue Book that discusses much of what towing capacities are all about, and lists the Chevy Venture in the charts down the page:
http://cars.kbb.com/carsapp/carskbb/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/minivan s/compare/towing_chart.tmpl
Cheers - Jonathan
> Hi, > I am new to this group and I love outdoor stuff. I just purchased an [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > PC pcusa1984 - 30 Sep 2005 22:20 GMT Thanks for all the help instructions. The owner manual said that it can tow upto 3500 lb with towing package. So I just "assume" it has such capability. I will double check with the Chevy dealer by using vin #. I am the second owner of the vehicle and only found a socket attached a group of 5 or 6 wires in glove box with a stained instruction sheet. Somehow I realized the socket is prefrbicated for a aftermarket plug on the bumper, not for a brake controller. Becuase the socket goes to a connector near venture's air pump. After studying the wiring of most electric brake controller (4-wire type), I understand that it uses a different wire (20 Amp) to control and feed the electric brake. If I don't need the electric brake then the original socket+wire is good enough for signal lights. What bothered me was: does it have the 20 AMP wire prefabricated or not? After checking all the harness (from brake controller to fuse box) available on the market for GM vehicle with electric brake controller. I just cannot find one for 2000 venture (most are for trucks and SUV). So I think I may have to wire the elertric brake power line by myself. It will be from the car battery to the rear bumper plug. This will take care of one prone of the 7-way plug and I will use the GM socket wires for the rest of the 7-way plug. Well, it is nice to install a 7+4 plug since I can tow a smaller utility trailer without electric brake.
If I am doing something wrong here, please help correct me. Thank you.
PC
tobe - 30 Sep 2005 23:30 GMT Check out the trailer harness wiring diagram for a 2001 Venture at: http://www.my-chevy-venture.com/trailer-wiring.html
The 2000 may be the same. Although the dealer MAY be able to tell you what you have for equipment on your vehicle from your VIN, you should ask specifically about the auxiliary transmission cooler, the heavy duty suspension, the larger rated alternator, and the wiring harness. Further, the parts department at the dealer may be able to show you a diagram of a trailer harness plug, and where you would plug it in (if you have the harness in your vehicle).
Finally, any reputable RV dealer will be able to tell you about the harness you have, and give you a quote on installing whatever you need (but you need not have them do the work). They are usually MUCH more knowledgeable than the dealer about trailer wiring.
Jonathan - 01 Oct 2005 02:34 GMT Greetings,
I hope that you don't mind me saying that I am uncomfortable with the assumption that your vehicle has the necessary equipment to tow 3500 lbs. Remember, there are two versions of your van - one with a 2000 lbs capacity and one with a 3500 lbs capacity. Please go to your dealer and talk with a service advisor and find out for sure what you have before you make what could be a costly guess. FWIW, if you don't already have it, a good quality tranny cooler slightly larger than you will need should only run about $150.00 installed at almost any reputable garage. Believe me when I say that's a LOT cheaper than paying to have your tranny rebuilt because you overheated it. I would also suggest an auxillary engine oil cooler as well because the last thing you want to skimp on is cooling capacity, but I personally don't see the need for a larger capacity alternator just to run a few extra lights on your trailer and brakes that you only use briefly overall. So many people believe they can just install a hitch and a plug and tow 5000 lbs with no problems. Others think they can load their vehicle to the gills with passengers and cargo and still tow the max trailer capacity. These are the folks you see in the waiting room at the local tranny shop complaining to the shop manager and swearing it's all the fault of the auto maker.
One thing that did cross my mind about the wiring harness you have is that it could be one of the type that plug in-line into the connector for your brake lights and provide you with a 4-wire trailer connection. Lots of web sites sell them (including J.C. Whitney) and they are very easy to install - just disconnect your factory brake light plug under the rear end of your van, insert the adapter plug (it looks like a "T") and reconnect the harness. The wiring from the bottom of the T goes to your camper's plug. It is possible to use this type of T-connector to provide power to the designated pins for brake and running lights on a 7-wire trailer connector, and is much cleaner, easier and more sure than splicing wires individually.
If you are looking for it on your truck, the wire for power to the trailer brakes is usually blue. Look near or inside the electrical center box under the hood as well as under the rear end of the van for a disconnected blue wire and that will be the one. If you do end up running the wire for the trailer brakes yourself, then use the largest gauge wire you can (smallest number, for example 12g wire is thicker than 20g wire). This wire usually ends up handling high amps and is a pretty long run, so a larger diameter wire is just a safeguard against it overheating and failing when you need the trailer brakes the most. If you do end up installing a hard-mounted 7-wire plug on the back of your van, then you can always use a one-piece 7-to-4 adapter that you can buy for less than $10.00 at any Wal-Mart for any smaller trailer you may tow with a 4-wire plug.
Here's one thing you should pay attention to - if you don't have the necessary wiring for trailer brakes and lights already run in your truck from the factory, then it's a good possibility that your van does not have the towing package. All tow prep packages that I know of at least come with wiring for trailer lights and brakes - it's not logical to advertise a vehicle as having a tow package if it doesn't have the wiring already in place at a minimum since it's the simplest (and cheapest) thing for the manufacturer to provide as part of the package. I can't imagine shelling out an extra few hundred dollars for a tow package and not getting the wiring, which costs the manufacturer next to nothing to begin with. BTW, you may also need a heavier duty flasher for your turn signals since you will be adding more lights to that circuit and the standard duty electronic ones may sense a fault if there is any extra load on the circuit.
Good luck and let us know what happens - Jonathan
> Thanks for all the help instructions. The owner manual said that it > can tow upto 3500 lb with towing package. So I just "assume" it has [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > PC Jim Redelfs - 01 Oct 2005 03:52 GMT > I hope that you don't mind me saying that I am uncomfortable with the > assumption that your vehicle has the necessary equipment to tow 3500 lbs. Well, hopefully you don't get any more than UNCOMFORTABLE. :)
The Trailer Life reference for his vehicle (2000 Chevrolet Venture minivan) has ONE - count 'em - *ONE* listing for the Venture. It says that the vehicle is rated to tow 3400-lbs - with the heavy-duty towing package.
http://www.trailerlife.com/downloads/00towingguide.pdf
Interestingly, it does NOT have a second listing for the same vehicle WITHOUT the heavy-duty towing package!
I am satisfied with the OP's stated intention to VERIFY his belief that his van is properly rated to tow 3400-lbs. ...or 3500-lbs, if that's what it says in the owner's manual.
Hopefully, he will also remember that a tow rating includes EVERYTHING added to a tow vehicle (not counting the weight of a 150-lb driver) and the ENTIRE weight of the LOADED camper - not just its tongue weight.
If the trailer is indeed a 12-ft box, he could *EASILY* overload this setup. Again, he should take it, fully-loaded with all the gang onboard the van, to a public scale (truck stop, mill, etc) and check out the camper's REAL WORLD weight. Only then will he be able to accurately gauge where he is with regard to towing safety.
:) JR
 Signature 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000
Jim Redelfs - 01 Oct 2005 03:36 GMT > used 1993 Rockwood 1260 XL camper Congratulations! Is that a popup with a "12-ft box"? That would be determined by measuring the CLOSED length of the main part of the camper - the "box".
> 2000 Chevy venture. My chevy has a towing package If you are SURE of that, and the minivan has a "big" V6 engine, then the tow vehicle should be able to adequately (nothing more) tow a LOADED, 12-ft folding tent trailer.
> The camper is about 1900 lb Unless you have personally weighed it at a public scale, LOADED and fully ready to setup camp, then that isn't a number to be trusted.
> electric brake. That's essential. On a five-year-old camper, you should test them to ensure they work on both wheels.
> Tesheka Envoy for the brake controller (half price of Prodigy). Yep. Now is the time to consider CO$T. After all, you're "only" hauling you, your wife, your children and just about your entire net worth down the road.
(Cynicism Mode: OFF) The Envoy is a good controller. I use a Sentinel. The Prodigy had JUST been released when I bought my Sentinel. The cost of the BRAND NEW model Prodigy scared me "down" to the Sentinel.
If I were doing it now, as did a friend a few days ago, I wouldn't mess around: Bite the bullet and get the Prodigy. You can make up the difference by not buying a bunch of accessories for your new RVing pastime quite as soon as you might otherwise.
The Prodigy is about as good as it gets. A week or so ago that statement would have said the Prodigy *IS* as good as it gets. No longer, apparently. I just learned that Tekonsha is releasing yet another [drum roll] NEW controller. It's just like computers. <sigh>
> Is there a reliable and discounted online RV > store that I can purchase these? The only two internet/mail-order, RV-related purchases I have made have been from
http://www.campingworld.com
http://www.campmor.com
Both experiences have been VERY good. If Camping World can't get you what you need/want, I'll bet they can refer you. As for "discounted", Camping World hardly qualifies for that distinction. If anything, their prices are average-to-high. Still, they always have what I need when I need it and have been a VERY good company to deal with on-line.
Campmor is a bit more related to hiking and backwoods camping but still have good stuff that is used by BOTH "worlds". Not a lot of RV-specific stuff, though.
I am 52. I have slowly come to slightly dislike DIY projects where I'm not very good at the job. I'd rather work overtime at my job and pay a professional to do those things, especially on my camper.
This winter is PLANNED to be a rubber roof and four, new tires.
<sigh> It's the "price" of being an RVer.
Good luck and HAVE FUN!!
:) JR
 Signature 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000
Bithead - 01 Oct 2005 22:55 GMT > That's essential. On a five-year-old camper, you should test them to ensure > they work on both wheels. Well, not ponly that, Jim but most states have laws about anything over around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind. My own Viking SP166 didn't have them, and was borderline on the law at around 1100 or so. And actually, it worked OK without them.
>>Tesheka Envoy for the brake controller (half price of Prodigy). > > Yep. Now is the time to consider CO$T. After all, you're "only" hauling you, > your wife, your children and just about your entire net worth down the road. Yeah, I'm using an envoy, myself, on my Kiwi. It's pretty good.
One point in this thread you don't mention is a pet peeve of mine; I've never been happy about twoing anything large with a front driver, which the Venture is. THe first tow vehicle we had when I first started getting into this was a 93 Chev Lumina. It went OK for the most part, but it was a real rush when going over railroad tracks, and the front end got light because of the movement plus the aded weight from the hitch. Very weird. A few times of that happening, and I was looking for an Astro, as you may recall.
Tony Wesley - 03 Oct 2005 05:39 GMT > > That's essential. On a five-year-old camper, you should test them to ensure > > they work on both wheels.
> Well, not ponly that, Jim but most states have laws about anything over > around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind. Any source for that? I have the impression that requirements for trailer brakes start at 1500 pounds most places. But I could very well be wrong. That's why I'm asking for a source.
Tony Wesley - 03 Oct 2005 05:45 GMT > > Well, not ponly that, Jim but most states have laws about anything over > > around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind. > > Any source for that? I have the impression that requirements for > trailer brakes start at 1500 pounds most places. I should have googled before I asked.
http://www.aaa.com/aaa/Traveler/trailer.html
Jim Redelfs - 03 Oct 2005 13:34 GMT >> most states have laws about anything over >> around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind.
> Any source for that? I have the impression that requirements for > trailer brakes start at 1500 pounds most places. But I could very well > be wrong. That's why I'm asking for a source. I was a bit skeptical when he posted 1100-lbs.
Google is a wonderful thing. I found that most states begin their trailer brakes requirement at 3000-lbs. Ohio is 2000 and, of course, not to be outdone as Most Regulated State, California is 1500-lbs.
http://www.boatus.com/towing/towlaw.htm
:) JR
Rich256 - 03 Oct 2005 15:10 GMT > >> most states have laws about anything over > >> around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > :) > JR I would not want a 3000 pound trailer without brakes, expecially when pulled by a mini-van!! Talk about a tail wagging the dog.
Bithead - 04 Oct 2005 00:10 GMT >>>most states have laws about anything over >>>around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://www.boatus.com/towing/towlaw.htm I should have been more specific. I gather that ruling is here in the People's Republic of NY, and is limited to newer units. Given ours was a 92, and we had to sell it as a used trailer, I think it was kinda grandfathered in.
Tomes - 07 Oct 2005 18:14 GMT > >>>most states have laws about anything over > >>>around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > limited to newer units. Given ours was a 92, and we had to sell it as a > used trailer, I think it was kinda grandfathered in. From the link above: Boat Towing Laws in New York Boating Law Administrator: 518-474-0445 Maximum Speed Limit: 65 Maximum Dimensions for trailer:45'L x 8'6"W x 13'6"H Maximum Length with Trailer:60' Minimum Weight requiring Separate Trailer Brakes:3,000
Bithead - 07 Oct 2005 23:10 GMT >>>>>most states have laws about anything over >>>>>around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Maximum Length with Trailer:60' > Minimum Weight requiring Separate Trailer Brakes:3,000 I'll have to break out the old woodalls, I guess.
Tony Wesley - 08 Oct 2005 04:29 GMT [snip]
> I'll have to break out the old woodalls, I guess. I think I saw where that number came from. The following is from
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:GZFxCH9utwQJ:www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/mv52 9c.pdf
(That's from google, the html version of the file http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/mv529c.pdf When I try to pull up the pdf directly, it looks like blank document to me. YMMV)
New York State Department of Motor Vehicles Division of Vehicle Safety Services EQUIPMENT REQUIRED FOR TRAILERS [...] BRAKES .............................................. Trailers weighing over 1,000 pounds unladen, and trailers having a maximum gross weight in excess of 3,000 pounds, must be equipped with brakes.
Bithead - 11 Oct 2005 01:34 GMT > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > over 1,000 pounds unladen, and trailers having a maximum gross weight > in excess of 3,000 pounds, must be equipped with brakes. Hmmm. Possible.
|
|
|