Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / October 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Is there a reliable and discounted online RV store?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
pcusa1984 - 30 Sep 2005 18:30 GMT
Hi,
 I am new to this group and I love outdoor stuff. I just purchased an
used 1993 Rockwood 1260 XL camper and would like to use it next summer
with my 2000 Chevy venture.  My chevy has a towing package but all I
found was a socket connection with a group of wires.  Of course, it
must have a bigger radiator, etc. The camper is about 1900 lb and a
axle of electric brake. I am thinking of a Tesheka Envoy for the brake
controller (half price of Prodigy).  I will need a 4+7 ways connector
too if I want to DIY. Is there a reliable and discounted online RV
store that I can purchase these?  I know ebay has a lowest offer for
Prodigy at $75+S+H.  How about the wiring stuff?

Thanks,

PC
SQLit - 30 Sep 2005 18:48 GMT
> Hi,
>   I am new to this group and I love outdoor stuff. I just purchased an
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> PC

I am a tad confused with your statement. "My Chevy has a towing package but
all I
> found was a socket connection with a group of wires.  Of course, it
> must have a bigger radiator, etc"

Most towing packages include a larger radiator and trans cooler as standard
equipment.
Check the towing ratings in your manual and see what it says about the 1900
pounds. Sounds high to me even flat landing.

Ya my Chevy had the same crap when it came to the electrics.  My Ford on the
other hand was factory installed with both 4 and 7 wire plugs.

If you use a 7 wire connector then you really do not need the 4 especially
since the 4 has no capacity for the electric breaks.
Jonathan - 30 Sep 2005 21:17 GMT
Greetings,

If the socket you found with the wires was an irregular, non-standard plug,
then that is the factory harness connector for an aftermarket electric brake
controller.  The  wires splice to the wiring from the controller, and the
connector plugs into the wiring panel up underneath the dash on the driver's
side.  Your vehicle should already be pre-wired for trailer brakes and
lights, etc. but it may be all bundled together with electrical tape and
tucked up under the rear of your truck so you may have to go looking for it.

The term "tow package" is often pretty misleading.  There is a frequent
misunderstanding with some vehicles that you have certain equipment like a
larger radiator, etc. when often the correct term is "tow prep package"
which can mean nothing more than pre-installed wiring for trailer lights and
brakes.  Larger radiators are not frequently part of towing packages, but if
you are lucky you may get an auxillary transmission cooler, an engine oil
cooler, and maybe even a stiffer suspension.  If you have neither of these
coolers then I highly recommend that you get both before you do any
extensive towing.  An aux. tranny cooler is expecially important for front
wheel drive vehicles as they do not have a large amount of tranny fluid or
cooling capacity for it as would a rear wheel drive style drive train.
Don't assume that you have this equipment - check to make absolutely sure.
If you don't, then an aux. tranny cooler is not expensive and cheap
insurance.

On last thing - a towing package (whether from the factory or you add the
equipment yourself) does not raise the towing capacity of your truck beyond
what is stated in the manual.  All it does is help protect your vehicle's
drive train when you do tow.  I recommend that you contact Chevy and see
just exactly how much your van is rated to tow, and remember that every
extra pound you load into the van reduces the max weight of the trailer you
can tow by that much.  Towing capacities are traditionally quoted for the
vehicle with only the driver, one passenger and around 150lbs of luggage,
although the builders seldom offer that explanation unless they are really
pressed for it.  I believe that the Venture is front wheel drive, and if so
is not the best for towing.  Chevy lists towing capacities for the 2004
Venture at 2000lbs standard and 3500lbs max, although I can't tell you what
the difference is between "standard" and "max".

Here is a good link from Kelly Blue Book that discusses much of what towing
capacities are all about, and lists the Chevy Venture in the charts down the
page:

http://cars.kbb.com/carsapp/carskbb/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/minivan
s/compare/towing_chart.tmpl


Cheers - Jonathan

> Hi,
>  I am new to this group and I love outdoor stuff. I just purchased an
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> PC
pcusa1984 - 30 Sep 2005 22:20 GMT
Thanks for all the help instructions.  The owner manual said that it
can tow upto 3500 lb with towing package. So I just "assume" it has
such capability.  I will double check with the Chevy dealer by using
vin #.  I am the second owner of the vehicle and only found a socket
attached a group of 5 or 6 wires in glove box with a stained
instruction sheet.  Somehow I realized the socket is prefrbicated for a
aftermarket plug on the bumper, not for a brake controller.  Becuase
the socket goes to a connector near venture's air pump.  After studying
the wiring of most electric brake controller (4-wire type), I
understand that it uses a different wire (20 Amp) to control and feed
the electric brake.  If I don't need the electric brake then the
original socket+wire is good enough for signal lights. What bothered me
was: does it have the 20 AMP wire prefabricated or not?  After checking
all the harness (from brake controller to fuse box) available on the
market for GM vehicle with electric brake controller.  I just cannot
find one for 2000 venture (most are for trucks and SUV).  So I think I
may have to wire the elertric brake power line by myself.  It will be
from the car battery to the rear bumper plug.  This will take care of
one prone of the 7-way plug and I will use the GM socket wires for the
rest of the 7-way plug.  Well, it is nice to install a 7+4 plug since I
can tow a smaller utility trailer without electric brake.

If I am doing something wrong here, please help correct me.  Thank you.

PC
tobe - 30 Sep 2005 23:30 GMT
Check out the trailer harness wiring diagram for a 2001 Venture at:
http://www.my-chevy-venture.com/trailer-wiring.html

The 2000 may be the same.  Although the dealer MAY be able to tell you what
you have for equipment on your vehicle from your VIN, you should ask
specifically about the auxiliary transmission cooler, the heavy duty
suspension, the larger rated alternator, and the wiring harness.  Further,
the parts department at the dealer may be able to show you a diagram of a
trailer harness plug, and where you would plug it in (if you have the
harness in your vehicle).

Finally, any reputable RV dealer will be able to tell you about the harness
you have, and give you a quote on installing whatever you need (but you need
not have them do the work).  They are usually MUCH more knowledgeable than
the dealer about trailer wiring.
Jonathan - 01 Oct 2005 02:34 GMT
Greetings,

I hope that you don't mind me saying that I am uncomfortable with the
assumption that your vehicle has the necessary equipment to tow 3500 lbs.
Remember, there are two versions of your van - one with a 2000 lbs capacity
and one with a 3500 lbs capacity.  Please go to your dealer and talk with a
service advisor and find out for sure what you have before you make what
could be a costly guess.  FWIW, if you don't already have it,  a good
quality tranny cooler slightly larger than you will need should only run
about $150.00 installed at almost any reputable garage.  Believe me when I
say that's a LOT cheaper than paying to have your tranny rebuilt because you
overheated it.  I would also suggest an auxillary engine oil cooler as well
because the last thing you want to skimp on is cooling capacity, but I
personally don't see the need for a larger capacity alternator just to run a
few extra lights on your trailer and brakes that you only use briefly
overall.  So many people believe they can just install a hitch and a plug
and tow 5000 lbs with no problems.  Others think they can load their vehicle
to the gills with passengers and cargo and still tow the max trailer
capacity.  These are the folks you see in the waiting room at the local
tranny shop complaining to the shop manager and swearing it's all the fault
of the auto maker.

One thing that did cross my mind about the wiring harness you have is that
it could be one of the type that plug in-line into the connector for your
brake lights and provide you with a 4-wire trailer connection.  Lots of web
sites sell them (including J.C. Whitney) and they are very easy to install -
just disconnect your factory brake light plug under the rear end of your
van, insert the adapter plug (it looks like a "T") and reconnect the
harness.  The wiring from the bottom of the T goes to your camper's plug.
It is possible to use this type of T-connector to provide power to the
designated pins for brake and running lights on a 7-wire trailer connector,
and is much cleaner, easier and more sure than splicing wires individually.

If you are looking for it on your truck, the wire for power to the trailer
brakes is usually blue.  Look near or inside the electrical center box under
the hood as well as under the rear end of the van for a disconnected blue
wire and that will be the one.  If you do end up running the wire for the
trailer brakes yourself, then use the largest gauge wire you can (smallest
number, for example 12g wire is thicker than 20g wire).  This wire usually
ends up handling high amps and is a pretty long run, so a larger diameter
wire is just a safeguard against it overheating and failing when you need
the trailer brakes the most.  If you do end up installing a hard-mounted
7-wire plug on the back of your van, then you can always use a one-piece
7-to-4 adapter that you can buy for less than $10.00 at any Wal-Mart for any
smaller trailer you may tow with a 4-wire plug.

Here's one thing you should pay attention to - if you don't have the
necessary wiring for trailer brakes and lights already run in your truck
from the factory, then it's a good possibility that your van does not have
the towing package.  All tow prep packages that I know of at least come with
wiring for trailer lights and brakes - it's not logical to advertise a
vehicle as having a tow package if it doesn't have the wiring already in
place at a minimum since it's the simplest (and cheapest) thing for the
manufacturer to provide as part of the package.  I can't imagine shelling
out an extra few hundred dollars for a tow package and not getting the
wiring, which costs the manufacturer next to nothing to begin with.  BTW,
you may also need a heavier duty flasher for your turn signals since you
will be adding more lights to that circuit and the standard duty electronic
ones may sense a fault if there is any extra load on the circuit.

Good luck and let us know what happens - Jonathan

> Thanks for all the help instructions.  The owner manual said that it
> can tow upto 3500 lb with towing package. So I just "assume" it has
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> PC
Jim Redelfs - 01 Oct 2005 03:52 GMT
> I hope that you don't mind me saying that I am uncomfortable with the
> assumption that your vehicle has the necessary equipment to tow 3500 lbs.

Well, hopefully you don't get any more than UNCOMFORTABLE.   :)

The Trailer Life reference for his vehicle (2000 Chevrolet Venture minivan)
has ONE - count 'em - *ONE* listing for the Venture.  It says that the vehicle
is rated to tow 3400-lbs - with the heavy-duty towing package.

http://www.trailerlife.com/downloads/00towingguide.pdf

Interestingly, it does NOT have a second listing for the same vehicle WITHOUT
the heavy-duty towing package!

I am satisfied with the OP's stated intention to VERIFY his belief that his
van is properly rated to tow 3400-lbs.  ...or 3500-lbs, if that's what it says
in the owner's manual.

Hopefully, he will also remember that a tow rating includes EVERYTHING added
to a tow vehicle (not counting the weight of a 150-lb driver) and the ENTIRE
weight of the LOADED camper - not just its tongue weight.

If the trailer is indeed a 12-ft box, he could *EASILY* overload this setup.  
Again, he should take it, fully-loaded with all the gang onboard the van, to a
public scale (truck stop, mill, etc) and check out the camper's REAL WORLD
weight.  Only then will he be able to accurately gauge where he is with regard
to towing safety.

         :)
JR
Signature

2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT
2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD
Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000

Jim Redelfs - 01 Oct 2005 03:36 GMT
> used 1993 Rockwood 1260 XL camper

Congratulations!  Is that a popup with a "12-ft box"?  That would be
determined by measuring the CLOSED length of the main part of the camper - the
"box".

> 2000 Chevy venture.  My chevy has a towing package

If you are SURE of that, and the minivan has a "big" V6 engine, then the tow
vehicle should be able to adequately (nothing more) tow a LOADED, 12-ft
folding tent trailer.

> The camper is about 1900 lb

Unless you have personally weighed it at a public scale, LOADED and fully
ready to setup camp, then that isn't a number to be trusted.

> electric brake.

That's essential.  On a five-year-old camper, you should test them to ensure
they work on both wheels.

> Tesheka Envoy for the brake controller (half price of Prodigy).

Yep.  Now is the time to consider CO$T.  After all, you're "only" hauling you,
your wife, your children and just about your entire net worth down the road.

(Cynicism Mode: OFF)  The Envoy is a good controller.  I use a Sentinel.  The
Prodigy had JUST been released when I bought my Sentinel.  The cost of the
BRAND NEW model Prodigy scared me "down" to the Sentinel.

If I were doing it now, as did a friend a few days ago, I wouldn't mess
around:  Bite the bullet and get the Prodigy.  You can make up the difference
by not buying a bunch of accessories for your new RVing pastime quite as soon
as you might otherwise.

The Prodigy is about as good as it gets.  A week or so ago that statement
would have said the Prodigy *IS* as good as it gets.  No longer, apparently.  
I just learned that Tekonsha is releasing yet another [drum roll] NEW
controller.  It's just like computers.   <sigh>

> Is there a reliable and discounted online RV
> store that I can purchase these?

The only two internet/mail-order, RV-related purchases I have made have been
from

http://www.campingworld.com

http://www.campmor.com

Both experiences have been VERY good.  If Camping World can't get you what you
need/want, I'll bet they can refer you.  As for "discounted", Camping World
hardly qualifies for that distinction.  If anything, their prices are
average-to-high.  Still, they always have what I need when I need it and have
been a VERY good company to deal with on-line.

Campmor is a bit more related to hiking and backwoods camping but still have
good stuff that is used by BOTH "worlds".  Not a lot of RV-specific stuff,
though.

I am 52.  I have slowly come to slightly dislike DIY projects where I'm not
very good at the job.  I'd rather work overtime at my job and pay a
professional to do those things, especially on my camper.

This winter is PLANNED to be a rubber roof and four, new tires.

<sigh>  It's the "price" of being an RVer.

Good luck and HAVE FUN!!

           :)
JR
Signature

2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT
2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD
Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000

Bithead - 01 Oct 2005 22:55 GMT
> That's essential.  On a five-year-old camper, you should test them to ensure
> they work on both wheels.

Well, not ponly that, Jim but most states have laws about anything over
around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind. My own Viking SP166 didn't
have them, and was borderline on the law at around 1100 or so. And
actually, it worked OK without them.

>>Tesheka Envoy for the brake controller (half price of Prodigy).
>
> Yep.  Now is the time to consider CO$T.  After all, you're "only" hauling you,
> your wife, your children and just about your entire net worth down the road.

Yeah, I'm using an envoy, myself, on my Kiwi. It's pretty good.

One point in this thread you don't mention is a pet peeve of mine; I've
never been happy about twoing anything large with a front driver, which
the Venture is. THe first tow vehicle we had when I first started
getting into this was a 93 Chev Lumina. It went OK for the most part,
but it was a real rush when going over railroad tracks, and the front
end got light because of the movement plus the aded weight from the
hitch.  Very weird. A few times of that happening, and I was looking for
an Astro, as you may recall.
Tony Wesley - 03 Oct 2005 05:39 GMT
> > That's essential.  On a five-year-old camper, you should test them to ensure
> > they work on both wheels.

> Well, not ponly that, Jim but most states have laws about anything over
> around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind.

Any source for that?  I have the impression that requirements for
trailer brakes start at 1500 pounds most places.  But I could very well
be wrong.  That's why I'm asking for a source.
Tony Wesley - 03 Oct 2005 05:45 GMT
> > Well, not ponly that, Jim but most states have laws about anything over
> > around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind.
>
> Any source for that?  I have the impression that requirements for
> trailer brakes start at 1500 pounds most places.

I should have googled before I asked.

http://www.aaa.com/aaa/Traveler/trailer.html
Jim Redelfs - 03 Oct 2005 13:34 GMT
>> most states have laws about anything over
>> around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind.

> Any source for that?  I have the impression that requirements for
> trailer brakes start at 1500 pounds most places.  But I could very well
> be wrong.  That's why I'm asking for a source.

I was a bit skeptical when he posted 1100-lbs.

Google is a wonderful thing.  I found that most states begin their trailer
brakes requirement at 3000-lbs.  Ohio is 2000 and, of course, not to be
outdone as Most Regulated State, California is 1500-lbs.

http://www.boatus.com/towing/towlaw.htm

           :)
JR
Rich256 - 03 Oct 2005 15:10 GMT
> >> most states have laws about anything over
> >> around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>             :)
> JR

I would not want a 3000 pound trailer without brakes, expecially when pulled
by a mini-van!!  Talk about a tail wagging the dog.
Bithead - 04 Oct 2005 00:10 GMT
>>>most states have laws about anything over
>>>around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> http://www.boatus.com/towing/towlaw.htm

I should have been more specific.
I gather that ruling is here in the People's Republic of NY, and is
limited to newer units. Given ours was a 92, and we had to sell it as a
used trailer, I think it was kinda grandfathered in.
Tomes - 07 Oct 2005 18:14 GMT
> >>>most states have laws about anything over
> >>>around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> limited to newer units. Given ours was a 92, and we had to sell it as a
> used trailer, I think it was kinda grandfathered in.

From the link above:
Boat Towing Laws in New York
Boating Law Administrator: 518-474-0445
Maximum Speed Limit: 65
Maximum Dimensions for trailer:45'L x 8'6"W x 13'6"H
Maximum Length with Trailer:60'
Minimum Weight requiring Separate Trailer Brakes:3,000
Bithead - 07 Oct 2005 23:10 GMT
>>>>>most states have laws about anything over
>>>>>around 1100lbs having brakes of some kind.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Maximum Length with Trailer:60'
> Minimum Weight requiring Separate Trailer Brakes:3,000

I'll have to break out the old woodalls, I guess.
Tony Wesley - 08 Oct 2005 04:29 GMT
[snip]
> I'll have to break out the old woodalls, I guess.

I think I saw where that number came from.  The following is from

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:GZFxCH9utwQJ:www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/mv52
9c.pdf


(That's from google, the html version of the file
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/mv529c.pdf When I try to pull up the
pdf directly, it looks like blank document to me.  YMMV)

New York State Department of Motor Vehicles
Division of Vehicle Safety Services
EQUIPMENT REQUIRED FOR TRAILERS
[...]
BRAKES .............................................. Trailers weighing
over 1,000 pounds unladen, and trailers having a maximum gross weight
in excess of 3,000 pounds, must be equipped with brakes.
Bithead - 11 Oct 2005 01:34 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> over 1,000 pounds unladen, and trailers having a maximum gross weight
> in excess of 3,000 pounds, must be equipped with brakes.

Hmmm. Possible.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.