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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / May 2006Hitch pin question
I'm looking for help with my hitch pin. I pull a 5500lb trailer. The pin I use to hold hitch in the received measures .625 (5/8th of an inch) but whole in the receiver on the truck is more like .68 which is about the same diameter of the whole in the ball carrier. .625 pin seems to be as large as they come. Everything is brand spanking new so it is not like things are worn. What gives? This makes for a nasty clunk every time you stop or start. > What gives? This makes for a nasty clunk every time you stop or start. Look at the anti-rattle devices on this site. You can probably find similar items at any truck accessory store. http://www.hiddenhitch.com/ Oliver 2000 Galaxy Ok first the reason the hole is bigger is to allow you to be able to get the pin in. Now this may seem a bit large but your only talking about .055 (55 thousandths) difference in size that's only .0275 on a side. Now if your pin gets a bit rusty or has a build up on it of something then this allows you to still be able to put the pin in. We don't like things that fit to tight and make life harder on us we like to be able to put it in easily and pull it out without effort it's a Man thing.... Now that the comedy is over.. size wise is based on the Hitch's ability to handle a certain amount of weight plus a safety factor. The pin is hardened to a point not fully hardened as it would break but hardened enough to allow it to have a tensil strength at least enough to keep it from bending or snapping. > I'm looking for help with my hitch pin. I pull a 5500lb trailer. The pin I > use to hold hitch in the received measures .625 (5/8th of an inch) but whole [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What gives? This makes for a nasty clunk every time you stop or start. > I'm looking for help with my hitch pin. I pull a 5500lb trailer. The pin I > use to hold hitch in the received measures .625 (5/8th of an inch) but whole [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What gives? This makes for a nasty clunk every time you stop or start. I found that the clunks are more likely caused by the draw bar not fitting well in the receiver. Simply inserting some type of shim along two adjacent sides of the bar clears the noise right up. I used some scrap aluminum sheet I had laying around. Yep I have shims which helps when the trailer is not hooked up. Mine is actually moving in and out when the trailer is hooked up about .050 inches (3/64) which makes a most unnerving thunk every time you stop and another thunk when you start moving. >> I'm looking for help with my hitch pin. I pull a 5500lb trailer. The pin >> I use to hold hitch in the received measures .625 (5/8th of an inch) but [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > adjacent sides of the bar clears the noise right up. I used some scrap > aluminum sheet I had laying around. > Yep I have shims which helps when the trailer is not hooked up. Mine is > actually moving in and out when the trailer is hooked up about .050 > inches (3/64) which makes a most unnerving thunk every time you stop and > another thunk when you start moving. Get a bigger pin? Perhaps you could find a larger pin? I think you might find one at a truck stop parts centre. Then you could drill your receiver and drawbar to accept the larger pin. > Yep I have shims which helps when the trailer is not hooked up. Mine is > actually moving in and out when the trailer is hooked up about .050 inches [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>adjacent sides of the bar clears the noise right up. I used some scrap >>aluminum sheet I had laying around. DO NOT DRILL YOUR DRAWBAR AND RECEIVER! Manufacturers engineer this stuff for use in a particular way. Drilling it out removes the hardening on the outside of the bar and receiver hole it's the best way I know of to lose your trailer from the hitch failing. Consider this a reminder a very serious reminder. > Perhaps you could find a larger pin? I think you might find one at a > truck stop parts centre. Then you could drill your receiver and drawbar [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>> along two adjacent sides of the bar clears the noise right up. I used >>> some scrap aluminum sheet I had laying around. *** R E M E M B E R ! *** You heard it on The Internet<tm> so it MUST be true. --==> ASCII "art" is a dying art <==-- > DO NOT DRILL YOUR DRAWBAR AND RECEIVER! > Manufacturers engineer this stuff for use in a particular way. Drilling > it out removes the hardening on the outside of the bar and receiver hole > it's the best way I know of to lose your trailer from the hitch failing. > Consider this a reminder a very serious reminder. With all due respect, I am skeptical of the accuracy of this claim. It occurs to me that the entire drawbar is "hardened". To be unable to SLIGHTLY bore-out the hole in either the receiver or drawbar to accommodate a SLIGHTLY larger sized pin would be in the same league as being told I can't bore-out my V8 engine .030 over. I expect that the "slap" or SLOP as it's also known, is an issue to only those NOT using a weight-distributing hitch. Of course, that is virtually ALL popup camping trailers. When I arrive at my destination with my load-equalized-hitched travel trailer, most of the time the hitch pin is LOOSE through the receiver - I don't even NEED the pin during towing! Not so with a dead-weight lash-up. Banging the tow vehicle and trailer back-and-forth while underway is probably more of an annoyance than any mechanical wear issue. Still, it should not have to be tolerated. My sister's new camping trailer make a TON of racket when we first drove away from the dealership. The hitch contractor, an older, white, Sanford & Son-type operation downtown (and he does GREAT welding!) installed a 1-7/8-inch hitchball and the trailer came with a 2-inch coupler. We crashed and banged our way back downtown, Lamont found a rusted, 2-inch hitch ball laying around somewhere, installed it and all was fixed. My 1987 Starcraft Galaxy (12-ft box) never "crashed and banged" at the hitch and that was with three subsequent tow vehicles using a Class I, II & III hitch, respectively. Don't put up with it. I think the padded hitch pins might be OK but there's a LOT of "work" going on back there. That's why I can only assume that shims would be a temporary solution, that they would quickly wear out. If the pin you have is too small, simply get the next size larger and see if it fits. They're cheap. If it doesn't, get the drawbar and receiver drilled-out and USE the new pins. Caveat: This is the internet: If you do what is suggested here, keep an eye on the drilled-out area at EVERY stop for the first, several stops during initial towing to ensure that the hitch isn't failing due to the recent <ahem> modification. Translation: You're on you own. Good luck!  Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 Jim with all due respect I am a Journeyman Machinist. I've dealt with metals all my life. I can tell you that taking out .050 may not make a difference at all but do you really want to take the chance? Who made the drawbar and pin? How was it hardened? Did they Put a case harding compound on it to harden the outside a bit more to stop the pin from Egging the hole or stop the material from tearing under load? Is there a minor flaw in the material that is allowed in the manufacture process as there is a safety factor built in for a minor flaw that would be removed when you drill it out? What if your drill "walks" and you end up taking out .2 instead of .05? I've investigated failures in manufacturing I've seen things fail such as crane hooks where everything in the world was done to make sure they will hold what they are supposed to and they decide since they need a adapter to weld a small amount of metal to the hook. The temper of the metal was changed and the hook failed under maximum stress allowed. But because the hook was changed the company who made it wasn't at fault and our insurance company made life miserable trying to get payment. "It Happens" > *** R E M E M B E R ! *** > You heard it on The Internet<tm> so it MUST be true. [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > initial towing to ensure that the hitch isn't failing due to the recent <ahem> > modification. Translation: You're on you own. Good luck! Apparently you never heard of case hardening. If you are not a mechanical engineer you should shut up. It doesn't matter what occurs to you. TS > *** R E M E M B E R ! *** > > With all due respect, I am skeptical of the accuracy of this claim. > > It occurs to me that the entire drawbar is "hardened". Tom, Please let's respect each others opinion here. If you have a opposing view post it don't beat them to death with it. We're campers not gang members let's act like it and help each other. Thanks. > Apparently you never heard of case hardening. If you are not a mechanical > engineer you should shut up. It doesn't matter what occurs to you. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >>It occurs to me that the entire drawbar is "hardened". > Apparently you never heard of case hardening. Why is that apparent? Regardless, it's amazing the things I've never heard of. I don't even KNOW all of them yet. > If you are not a mechanical engineer you should shut up. If you are not a C.P.A. and agree to join me, I'll shut up. <sigh> > It doesn't matter what occurs to you. Au contraire, my coarse "friend". What occurs to me matters VERY much - to me, at least. (Translation: Byte me!) Pppppppbbbbbbbffffffftttttttt! Signature:) JR >> Apparently you never heard of case hardening. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >(Translation: Byte me!) I have Tom Shaw filtered in more than one newsgroup. He is a consummate a.shole with very little to contribute to any discussion of anything. Tom What is apparent is that you are an opinionated a.shole who is not afraid to opine on things that you dont understand with the result that you are willing to offer advice on matters which affect the safety of trailering. When you offer advice on fixing holes in the roof or the value of air matresses what you say is not going to hurt anybody. I guess you think being a CPA is some kind of certification of genius. TS >> Apparently you never heard of case hardening. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Pppppppbbbbbbbffffffftttttttt! I too find it hard to believe that drilling the hole out will alter the properties of the steel (or hitch design) enough to make it unsafe. First, Drilling one size up will not create enough heat to alter any hardening (if any). Second, I think of custom hitches that are not hardened at all and are subject to a fair bit of welding, cutting and drilling before installation. Third I can't imagine any circumstance that would allow the pin to be pulled through 2 or more inches of steel (plus the additional steel welded to the receiver opening.) If what you state is in fact true then I would assume that his receiver is already dangerous due to the wear present at the pin hole. The forces on the receiver are magnified by the slop and will accelerate the wear which will definately affect the structure of the steel. In any case a quick call to the hitch manufacturer or licensed installer would clear this up pretty quick. > DO NOT DRILL YOUR DRAWBAR AND RECEIVER! > Manufacturers engineer this stuff for use in a particular way. Drilling [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >>>> along two adjacent sides of the bar clears the noise right up. I >>>> used some scrap aluminum sheet I had laying around. What wear he didn't say there was any wear. You have no idea what you are talking about but to give you a example drilling a larg hole generates much more heat then you think. drilling a hardened hole will generate even more. So how deep does Case hardening go? You tell me since you think you know so much.... Case hardening that is the outside hardened will only go about .030 to 075 deep unless you oil treat or chemical harden the material. Tempering the metal which also makes it stronger can be damaged at the site by heat as well. Drawbars with Chrome can be damaged by drilling past the chrome hardening on the outside. If you cause a sharp scrape by a chip while drilling you need to polish it out any sharp edge can be broken much easier then a rounded soft edge. Proven engineering fact. Now as for a Licensed installer they don't know anything other then how to put the hitch on and how to make it work according to the manufacturer. Should you wish to contact someone write to a manufacterer online and ask them what could happen when a hitch is drilled out for a larger pin.... then ask them if they would still be responsible if the pin or drawbar failed? I don't think so... > I too find it hard to believe that drilling the hole out will alter the > properties of the steel (or hitch design) enough to make it unsafe. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >>>>> along two adjacent sides of the bar clears the noise right up. I >>>>> used some scrap aluminum sheet I had laying around. You have assumed a lot. Your entire argument is based on the fact that you believe the hitch is case hardened. Even if this were the case, and I've not seen any evidence of it, careful drilling and the use of a lubricating coolant takes care of any heat problem. If you have any evidence of case hardening, please provide it. You suggest that the case hardening goes .030 to .075" deep. Since the receivers are usually constructed of .125" steel with a forged steel collar at the opening, that much hardening (a minimum of half the materal thickness) would make the receiver too brittle to be safe. If there is enough slop in the assembly to make the noise to OP is complaining about then eventually the forces involved will wear the hole or pin to the point where they will not be safe. In any case. You're beginning to sound like the know it all type jerk whose advice I would rarely take without a second opinion. Could you try to keep it civil? The best advice is still to contact the manufacturer for help. > What wear he didn't say there was any wear. You have no idea what you > are talking about but to give you a example drilling a larg hole [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >>>>>> along two adjacent sides of the bar clears the noise right up. I >>>>>> used some scrap aluminum sheet I had laying around. > In any case. You're beginning to sound like the know it all type jerk > whose advice I would rarely take without a second opinion. Indeed. He has never posted on this newsgroup before this thread (at least under the name Kegger) and only has ten posts in all of usenet. A definite killfile candidate. Austin Believe what you want killfile me anytime... and as far as posting on this group you will find me under a variety of names none of which I'll give you. But go ahead and drill your receiver and bar... You deserve what you get.... >>In any case. You're beginning to sound like the know it all type jerk >>whose advice I would rarely take without a second opinion. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Austin > Believe what you want killfile me anytime... and as far as posting on > this group you will find me under a variety of names none of which I'll > give you. 1) Admitting to Imposter: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/impostor.htm "Of course, there are sinister, even criminal reasons Impostor would lie about who he is, but more often he fakes it to lend weight to his arguments, or simply to amuse himself. Impostor's requisite imagination and good writing skills can make him a formidable enemy, but even the best Impostors will eventually blunder and reveal their true identity. Once uncovered, Impostor always flees the field, but he may return in another form - you just never know..." 2) Or maybe Stealth: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/stealth.htm "Because of his cowardice Stealth is often dismissed by other Warriors as an unworthy adversary." Elsewhere in this thread you've proven that you are: 3) Blowhard: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/blowhard.htm "Blowhard feels the need to present his credentials before entering the fray..." 4) And, of course, Klaxon: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/klaxon.htm "CAUTION: Evil Clown or even Klaxon himself may sometimes spread false alarms just to stir up trouble." > But go ahead and drill your receiver and bar... You deserve what you get.... Indeed. I cut 2" off of my drawbar and drilled a new hole (not just enlarge the existing one). Since then, it has been used to tow a 3,500 lb. trailer more than 25,000 miles (including lots of stop & go traffic and plenty of steep mountain passes). The hoe in the draw bar is in like-new shape. <snip stuff he top-posted over> Austin >>In any case. You're beginning to sound like the know it all type jerk >>whose advice I would rarely take without a second opinion. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Austin I like the definitions you posted. I too found that he was pushing the "I am a machinist and know all" line pretty hard. Maybe he forgot that there are engineers out here in cyberspace and engineers tell machinists what to do. >there are engineers out here in cyberspace and engineers tell machinists >what to do. Only if they have a note from their mommy. Otherwise a smart engineer comes and asks the machinist if the job can be done and the best way to do it. then goes back and draws the plans. SignatureFrank Tabor >>there are engineers out here in cyberspace and engineers tell machinists >>what to do. > > Only if they have a note from their mommy. Otherwise a smart engineer > comes and asks the machinist if the job can be done and the best way to > do it. then goes back and draws the plans. Not when it comes to metallurgy or design. The machinist can most likely offer the best advice on process though this isn't what we were discussing. > You have no idea what you > are talking about... And if you honestly believe these things are hardened at all you have no idea what you are talking about. Austin I have a related question on hitch pins . My hitch pin works fine wih just an occassional noise. I had another concern related to security so I bought a new hitch pin with a key and lock on the straight end .Yale I think . It also comes with a sleeve to take up the slop in my larger hole. My question is "are these things as safe towing than simple pin with cotter pin arrangement I now use, assuming I allways double check to see if the critter is actually locked of course?" ( I wish they put a cotter pin on the end too as a failsafe) Thanks Eddie > "are these things as safe towing than simple pin > with cotter pin arrangement I now use, assuming I > allways double check to see if the critter is actually > locked of course?" ( I wish they put > a cotter pin on the end too as a failsafe) It is never as SAFE as can be if you tow with LOCKED devices that hitch the trailer to the tow vehicle. You DO NOT want to be fumbling through your pockets for KEYS, trying frantically to unhitch from a burning trailer. The drawbar, swaybar and trailer coupler on my lashup, when I am actually towing, are properly secured by a finger-removable cotter pin or equivalent. This, of course, REQUIRES that the driver closely inspect the hitching upon returning to the lashup following a pit stop against the possibility that a vandal has pulled the pins. /paranoid rant Whenever the camper is not hitched to the pickup, the hitch drawbar is locked in the trailer coupler. It just hangs there. Summer, winter... This gets it out of the way (saving my shins) at the back of the pickup and secures both the drawbar and the trailer. Another awesome trailering accessory: Trailer Life magazine. Much of what I know or have learned, as in this post, I learned by reading the magazine. I have subscribed "forever". :) JR 1987 Starcraft Galaxy 1982 Chevrolet Caprice Classic Station Wagon (archival) Signature:) JR > It is never as SAFE as can be if you tow with LOCKED devices that hitch the > trailer to the tow vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > :) > JR Thanks JR , You helped clear up my thinking. I'll use the quick release cotter pins in towing and the locks when im parked for any length of time in an insecure situation , not forgetting to change them oc. Irealize that if someone wants the camper bad enough they may get it but this would at least offer a challenge in most conditions. I subscribe to Trailer life , great mag. Does anyone have feed back on Pop Up Times another mag that's publshed 6x a year ? Wondered if it was worhwhile Eddie07 >> It is never as SAFE as can be if you tow with LOCKED devices that hitch >> the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Eddie07 The Pop UP Times has a website here, FYI: http://www.popuptimes.com/ Tomes >> It is never as SAFE as can be if you tow with LOCKED devices that hitch >> the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Eddie07 I use a lock at all times. Used to have a combination lock, but now have a key lock. In all the years of towing, I have had one fire and that was the tow car for my race car, and the fuel line broke. A couple of extinguishers and a bad experience with the insurance company and all was good to go. If the trailer is burning, you have car insurance, and most times, your could release the hitch and pop the trailer off the receiver with a little help. I tow a boat and would never leave the stinger in the receiver in when not towing, as rust can lock the bar securely in the hole. Most fires, while towing are probably from either an unfused electrical wire or a tire catching fire from being towed flat. |
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