Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / June 2006
Converter Toast?
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shwood@dynsols.com - 04 Jun 2006 17:12 GMT Hi,
We just arrived home from our first trip in our new (to us) '01 Mesa. Since it rained for the past 2 days, I had to pack it wet and then set it up again in the yard once we arrived home.
I hooked up the electrical to the house and plugged in a small portable electric heater in the camper (the same one that we run when we are camping). I was attempting to dry it out some. A few hours later, the fuse has tripped on the converter and there was a smell of something burning coming from the converter. After switching the fuse back on, I have lights and power in the camper.
With the smell of something burning, I'm pretty nervous about the safely and reliability of the converter. Should it be replaced, how can I ensure that it's working safely and properly?
Thanks for any suggestions.
RichA - 04 Jun 2006 17:45 GMT >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Thanks for any suggestions. Hi, You should at least have it looked at and try to find out why it tripped the circuit breaker and see if there is any noticeable damage to the inside of the converter. The converter should only work the 12V lights and anything else 12V you may have and if it has a charger section charge the batteries. It should not have anything to do with any 120V power outlets. They should be on a separate circuit from the converter. So if you had any 12V items turned on they would be suspect as to maybe causing a short and overloading the converter, as would the condition of the battery if the converter has a charger section. You may have gotten water in somewhere where it shouldn't have been. It's also possible of course that the converter is going bad.
The only way you can test to see if it's working is to check the outputs for the 12V power and the output for the charger section. That will only tell you if the thing is currently working OK or not. You would need to put it under load while doing that. If you are not familiar with working with electricity you should take it to a dealer or find someone who knows how the converter/chargers battery system work and have them check it out.
Take care and Happy Campin...
 Signature RichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
shwood@dynsols.com - 04 Jun 2006 18:20 GMT Thanks for the reply.
I have since pulled it out to see if there was any water/moisture behind it. Sure enough, the space behind the converter was slightly wet. I must have a leak that got some water in there during the drive home.
If this is my problem, besides fixing my leak, should I replace my converter as well? Or do the same checks you mention below still hold?
Sheldon
> >Hi, > > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Take care and Happy Campin... Chris Cowles - 04 Jun 2006 20:45 GMT > If this is my problem, besides fixing my leak, should I replace my > converter > as well? Or do the same checks you mention below still hold? As part of fixing the leak, do an extensive search in the area for hidden water damage. Water leaks can cause significant damage, because they're often hidden. The damage occurs before you're aware there's a leak. Among other things, get under the camper and poke around at the floor with a screwdriver, looking for soft spots.
 Signature Chris Cowles Gainesville, FL
Jim Redelfs - 05 Jun 2006 02:01 GMT > should I replace my converter as well? Yes.
Especially if it is the original converter, a new, sophisticated converter would be a MAJOR improvement for your 2001 camper.
The converter on my entry level travel trailer, bought new in May, 2000, died a couple of years ago. It began to STINK of burning insulation, so I didn't take any chances - I replaced it. My new, "smart" converter is really GREAT for my battery as I like to "dry camp" with no electric hookup.
Good luck! :) JR
 Signature :) JR
2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000
tobe - 05 Jun 2006 03:58 GMT Many converters actually DO have something to do with 110 volt AC power. Often the AC goes to the converter which has two or more circuit breakers in the converter itself, as well as the 12 VDC section, with 4 or more fuses.
SO, you should test not only the 12 V DC power and what it goes to (usually just the lights) but also the 110 VAC outlets. If everything works OK, you are probably OK to keep using it.
Most small pop-up converters are crap, and are made by Centurion (and other names - I think World Friendship Co, or WFCO - but by the same company) Replacements are available on ebay for about $30 (and retail for over $100!). If you have to replace the converter, you should probably spend the extra $$ and get a decent converter. They start at about $200. See, for example: http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-converters-electrical-batteries-1.htm
The problems with replacing a converter with a better one is mainly size - will the new one fit in the old opening (probably not) or will you have to cut a new opening. And, is the new converter deeper than the old one, and if so will it run into something so it won't fit. Also, unless you are pretty good with wiring, you will have to get someone else, such as the dealer, to install it.
I'm afraid if you go to the pop-up dealer and ask him to replace the converter, they will just install another crap one and charge you too much. Ask about better converters and installed cost, then go home and look them up on the Net to see what the retail price is. The dealer probably has them, because they are used in many Travel Trailers and other larger camping units. It takes an hour or less to install a new converter (more if one has to enlarge the opening) so you can figure out if it is a fair price from that.
Let us know what the tests show, and any other questions you have.
HTH and good luck
RichA - 05 Jun 2006 04:49 GMT >Many converters actually DO have something to do with 110 volt AC power. >Often the AC goes to the converter which has two or more circuit breakers in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >just the lights) but also the 110 VAC outlets. If everything works OK, you >are probably OK to keep using it. Hi, I've never seen a converter/charger with circuit breakers for the 120V system. Not to say they are not out there. The circuit breaker panel for the 120V are normally pretty close by but the converter chargers themselves usually only have a fuse or sometimes a circuit breaker on them in case of overload and are usually powered from a circuit breaker on the 120V panel. A converter/charger with built in 120 V circuit breakers would be different for sure.
Take care and Happy Campin...
 Signature RichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Tony Wesley - 05 Jun 2006 06:01 GMT > I've never seen a converter/charger with circuit breakers for the 120V > system. Not to say they are not out there. My converter is also my 120V distribution system. It has 30 amp 120v in, two 15 amp 120v circuits (with circuit breakers) and 8 amps of unfiltered 12 V DC.
RichA - 06 Jun 2006 04:04 GMT >> I've never seen a converter/charger with circuit breakers for the 120V >> system. Not to say they are not out there. > >My converter is also my 120V distribution system. It has 30 amp 120v >in, two 15 amp 120v circuits (with circuit breakers) and 8 amps of >unfiltered 12 V DC. Hi Tony, Live and learn I guess. Who is the manufacturer of the converter with the 120V circuit breakers built in?
Take care and Happy Campin...
 Signature RichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Tony Wesley - 06 Jun 2006 05:02 GMT > Hi Tony, > Live and learn I guess. Who is the manufacturer of the converter with > the 120V circuit breakers built in? Rich, sorry, I don't remember. And it'll be a while before I get the pop-up open. It's in the garage and I'm recovering from a broken fibula and badly dislocated ankle.
It's not a very good converter. It supplied 8 amps max of DC that's run through a full-wave rectifier. Not even a capacitor on the output. That's fine for lights but not for a radio. And 8 amps isn't much. On the other hand, it works.
> Take care and Happy Campin... The same.
RichA - 07 Jun 2006 02:01 GMT >> Hi Tony, >> Live and learn I guess. Who is the manufacturer of the converter with [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >The same. Hi, Thanks for the comeback. First priority is to heal up for sure ! Sorry to hear about your troubles hope you're up and about and get some RV'ing in soon.
Take care and Happy Campin...
 Signature RichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
AustinMN - 05 Jun 2006 18:44 GMT > Hi, > I've never seen a converter/charger with circuit breakers for the 120V > system. <snip>
> RichA And I have never seen one that didn't, outside of a Dark Side(tm). It's easier (i.e. cheaper) for manufacturers to put in one converter than to put in one converter and one power panel.
Austin
RichA - 06 Jun 2006 04:11 GMT >> Hi, >> I've never seen a converter/charger with circuit breakers for the 120V [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Austin Hi Austin, I've seen lots of Inverters with separate 120 circuit breakers for the 120V power they supply but no Converters. What is the name of the manufacturer of the ones with the built in circuit breakers? Live and learn I guess.
Take care and Happy Campin...
 Signature RichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
tobe - 06 Jun 2006 15:32 GMT > I've seen lots of Inverters with separate 120 circuit breakers for the > 120V power they supply but no Converters. What is the name of the > manufacturer of the ones with the built in circuit breakers? Live and > learn I guess. The cheap Centurion, Elixir Industries (same company, I think), and WFCO (nearly identical to Centurion) units are integrated. They are the commonest converters in cheaper pop-ups, and they are just not very good converters, despite what their literature says. Some are available at the site below starting at $107, and on e-bay for about $35 (some mark-up, eh?)
See: http://www.bestconverter.com/product.asp?itemid=49&catid=63
RichA - 07 Jun 2006 02:30 GMT >> I've seen lots of Inverters with separate 120 circuit breakers for the >> 120V power they supply but no Converters. What is the name of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >See: http://www.bestconverter.com/product.asp?itemid=49&catid=63 Hi, Ok, I see what you mean now. Neat little things didn't have stuff like that when we had our last pop up for sure, which was a looong while ago. Now I can say I saw a converter with built in AC panel, thanks.
Only problem with the converter like that is if the converter goes you have to replace it with one that also has the AC circuit breaker built in or make your own. I think I would be looking at replacing it with an Inteli-Power and a box for the circuit breakers.
Take care and Happy Campin...
 Signature RichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Jim Redelfs - 06 Jun 2006 13:43 GMT > I've never seen a converter/charger with circuit breakers > for the 120V system. Not to say they are not out there. Like you said, Rich, "Live and learn". They're out there.
I assume the combination converters are generally relegated to SMALLER rigs, surely including popup campers. You can bet their use is CHEAPER than dealing with TWO devices and their enclosures.
My bought new, 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 (cheap Thor) travel trailer had/has a Centurion converter (25-amp?) that includes an integral 120VAC distribution section, including appropriate breakers.
When the three-year-old OEM converter failed, I assisted my RV tech/friend in its replacement with a high(er)-end converter. The new unit, including that company's version of an optional, plug-in "smart charger" control module, was mounted in the area/void that is BEHIND the dead converter. Cables, including 120VAC, were extended to the inside of the chassis of the dead unit to feed the breaker panel that was/is integral to the old Centurion converter. It was a PERFECT retrofit. Including the module and ostensibly using my friend's company discount buying the items from his employer (RV sales/service outlet) the expense came to just under $200.
The converter on my bought-new, 1987 Starcraft Galaxy, was a COMBINATION unit, too, IIRC. There was only ONE 120VAC circuit for the top-of-the-line camper (sans shower & a/c) and was protected by a Pushmatic-type breaker. The switch was placed facing the foot space of the dinette and was the occasional subject of dinnertime laughter when one of our three daughters would inadvertently kick it with their heal and plunge us into darkness!
 Signature :) JR
2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000
RichA - 07 Jun 2006 02:40 GMT >> I've never seen a converter/charger with circuit breakers >> for the 120V system. Not to say they are not out there. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >company discount buying the items from his employer (RV sales/service outlet) >the expense came to just under $200. <snipped> Hi, That's what I would do too. It's worth is since the good converter will probably last as long as the RV. On the other hand if the RV is only used once or twice a year you can replace several of the cheaper ones for the cost of one good one.
My last pop up didn't have fancy stuff like that :) A plug and a circuit breaker or a fuse can't recall which :) That was 34 or more years ago. Boon docking was a Coleman lantern and the batteries were for the flash lights. I've seen panels with the AC circuit breakers and DC fuses or circuit breakers all in there along with a converter. In those you could pull the converter out without bothering the AC. These look like you have to replace everything if the converter goes. Thanks for the info.
Take care and Happy Campin...
 Signature RichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
RichA - 05 Jun 2006 04:40 GMT >Thanks for the reply. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Sheldon Hi, I hate giving advise on electrical components, especially when I can't see them :) If it got wet and something shorted inside, then yes I would replace it. If you smelled something burning chances are something has at least gotten cooked or hot, at least a little :) If I had it here I would take it out, open it up and see what I could see looking for burnt spots or components, then run it under a high load. If you are not comfortable with doing that and don't want to take it to a dealer who you trust and spend the money to find out if it's still good, then buying a new one is the way to go. Or if it's a cheap one then it's probably not worth the trouble to mess with it anyway. They are pretty easy to install and MOST new ones come with pretty good step by step instructions.
Most converters that come with pop ups are typically not the best in the world for sure. Many would even say they are crap as a matter of fact :) That said how you use the RV might be what determines how much you want to spend for a converter/charger. If you use the RV a lot you might want to put a little more money in and get a good one. If not one of the cheaper ones might do. The better one will more then likely out live the RV.
A good 30 amp Intellipower (which should be big enough for a pop up) will set you back about $170.00. If you want to, you can add a Charge Wizard for $24.00 to add 3 stage battery charging to the converter/charger to keep your batteries happy. The 30 amp one is pretty small about 5 X 7 X 9. The larger amp ones are bigger of course and you should check and make sure any new one can fit in the opening you have or that you can easily enlarge the area.
Hope you find where the water came in and that it's an easy fix. That's not a good area to have water entering for sure :) <bunch snipped>
Take care and Happy Campin...
 Signature RichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
shwood@dynsols.com - 14 Jun 2006 18:35 GMT Thanks for all of the replies.
It turns out the breaker was causing the odor. I pulled it out and sure enough it was the source. I bought a new one today and will be installing it tonight. Here is a link to the breaker that I have:
http://www.bestcircuitbreakers.com/Circuit-Breakers/Cutler-Hammer/BD/BD1515.html ?gclid=CJqo9L6pxoUCFRg7GgodIVzqpg
Sheldon
> >Thanks for the reply. > > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Take care and Happy Campin...
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