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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / September 2006Another Propane/battery thread
I've been reading the past posts in these two newsgroups about propane and battery life, so I'm learning a bit here and there. But, I'm still mostly ignorant, so I'm hoping to get some advice. Here's the setup: My family (me, wife, 2 girls) is taking a 20-day camping trip to Colorado with our popup camper (see below for type)! We will be staying at the Rocky Mountain National Park for one week (that's all they'll let us), and tooling around the state for the rest of the time. I figure 2 days to get out there, and 2 to get back. For much of the trip, I'm guessing we'll be at campsites with electric hookup, so the battery won't be an issue, there. But, we will be using the propane for pretty much the entire trip. While in Rocky Mtn Nat'l Park, we'll be dry camping, so we'll be relying on the battery somewhat (fan for furnace?), and the propane for heat, refrigerator and cooking. The girls will get cold, because I hear the temps in the mountains will be in the 30s or 40s in the nights, so we will be using the furnace pretty much every night. We'll probably only use the stove or grill once a day for cooking, since we'll be out hiking/fishing/whatever all day, and tend to eat sandwiches, fruit, trailmix, jerky, etc. a lot. Oh, we have only one propane tank, BTW. Here's the hook: So, about how long should I expect the battery and propane to last on such a trip? I've read that I could expect about 3 days for battery, and maybe 4-5 days for propane. Does this sound about accurate? Here's the ignorance, maybe: Couldn't I just unhook the battery from the camper after the 3rd day, put it in the back of the minivan and hook it up (somehow), and re- charge it while we're tooling around for the day? How long would I have to have the minivan run, to recharge the battery fully? Couldn't I just do that? Or, is there some sort of recharger I could get, that would recharge the battery while we're out hiking? How do those even work? As for the propane - if it lasts about 4 days, are there readily- available stations in/near RMNP where we could just have the tank refilled, rather than buying a second tank? Any suggestions? I'm assuming there are other stations around the state, when we leave RMNP, where we could get the propane tank refilled, yes? Is there a list of stations available anywhere? Ok, enough babbling - I'm done for now, and will gladly read your comments! TIA, for any advice!  SignatureEric Babula Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA 2003 Jayco Eagle 10UD 2004 Toyota Sienna [snip] > My family (me, wife, 2 girls) is taking a 20-day camping trip to > Colorado with our popup camper (see below for type)! We will be staying > at the Rocky Mountain National Park for one week (that's all they'll let > us), and tooling around the state for the rest of the time. I figure 2 > days to get out there, and 2 to get back. [snip] > Oh, we have only one propane tank, BTW. [snip] > So, about how long should I expect the battery and propane to last on > such a trip? I've read that I could expect about 3 days for battery, and > maybe 4-5 days for propane. Does this sound about accurate? [snip] We camped in our popup for 3 weeks in CO and WY in Aug 2004, plus a week out and a week back, with the temperatures unseasonably low, and we didn't use 1/2 a tank of propane on the whole trip. We cooked, but hardly used the furnace; maybe a couple of mornings. It sounds like you might want to become more familiar with blankets and sleeping bags. A furnace is an inefficient way to compensate for lack of insulation. Wrap up at night, and use the furnace, if you like, for a short time in the mornings and evenings. I'd be surprised if you could use a tank of propane in 4 days, even with the furnace, though. As for the battery, several days of heavy furnace use is probably about right, but if you cut down the furnace and use the battery mainly for lights, then you should be able to exceed a week, if the battery is in good shape. Ours is connected to the car when towing, so it charges between camps, and we rarely stay a week in one place. If your vehicle is not wired to charge through the trailer connection, then you certainly could put the battery in your tow vehicle for charging. Be sure to brace it so it won't tip over, and you will need some fairly large wire (AWG 10, or preferably 8 or more) to connect the battery to the car's battery. If you use wire that is too small, the battery will not charge fast enough/high enough in one day trip to get it back to full, or the wire might over heat. There are other considerations, too, such as the length of wire from the TV battery to the RV battery during charging. SignatureNOTE: to reply, remove all punctuation from email name field Ned Forrester n_f_orrester@whoi.edu 508-289-2226 Applied Ocean Physics and Engineering Dept. Oceanographic Systems Lab http://adcp.whoi.edu/ Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, Woods Hole, MA 02543, USA I too would recommend better sleeping bags, more blankets and proper bed clothes. My wife and I regularly tent camp in below freezing temps and are quite comfortable. When in the popup having the furnace on just in the morning is a treat. I had actually installed a remote switch for the furnace so I could turn it on without leaving my bed. Ahh, luxury. The main reason we chose not to use the furnace at night was noise. Even the quietest furnace makes way too much noise while you're sleeping. Add that to your uncertainty about battery power and propane usage and getting good sleeping bags becomes a wise thing to do, though a few extra blankets are a good substitute. Mine are rated for -10C and cost less than $50. They've been used to -15C while sleeping on an air mattress on the ground. Andrew > I've been reading the past posts in these two newsgroups about propane > and battery life, so I'm learning a bit here and there. But, I'm still [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > TIA, for any advice! > Couldn't I just unhook the battery from the camper after the 3rd day, > put it in the back of the minivan and hook it up (somehow), and re- > charge it while we're tooling around for the day? Yes you can. Before I got a generator, I used to do the same thing (and still do so I don't disturb my camping neighbors). In fact, if you bring the battery around everytime you're out on day trips, you'll probably have an unlimited supply of electricity in a popup. As another poster mentioned, you have to do this right so the battery doesn't tip over, charges correctly, etc. What I did was get another plug that fit into the socket for the trailer turn signal harness that was only wired to the pins for the isolater (charge line from the car). I use two batteries so I always have one charging in the truck (for day trips) and one always connected to the camper and swap out when needed. Works great. > As for the propane - if it lasts about 4 days, are there readily- > available stations in/near RMNP where we could just have the tank > refilled, rather than buying a second tank? Any suggestions? Buy a second tank. Nothing is worse than running out of gas at an inconvenient time. When one tank is out, you've got time to get the other filled. On my first popup I had room for only one tank and hated it. My second popup had room for two. Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Plus having two tanks gives you extra capacity. As far as how long all this lasts, it depends. A popup fridge doesn't take much gas. Even the big fridge in my travel trailer is fairly light on the gas. The furnace will take a lot of gas. My suggestion is to bundle up and keep the thermostat when you're sleeping between 45 and 55. When you get up, set it at whatever you want since you probably won't be running long before you're out exploring somewhere for the day. That seemed to reduce the gas need for me. Worse than the gas though is the amount of battery the furnace uses. That was always a greater concern for me than the gas. Have fun out west. Sounds like an ideal trip. And RMNP is really nice...I was there last year. Jimbo 2000 Toyota Tundra 2005 Sunline 1950 > Rocky Mountain National Park BTDT. Four times, I recall. Morraine Park campground. > we have only one propane tank Buy a second tank. My popup had two tanks and, the last time I went to RMNP, I brought a THIRD! (overkill) An automatic changeover regulator is the epitome of convenience and comfort: When the first tanks runs out, the regulator automatically switches to the second tank. There is no waking-up to a cold camper and no pilots to re-light. > how long should I expect the battery and propane to last With conservative use of the furnace, the propane could last the entire week in the park. The battery, on the other hand, should go for three nights if it is fully charged and in good shape. It could last the entire week if you run the furnace sparingly. A Group 24 battery has less capacity than a Group 27 or 31. If you are still using the dealer-supplied battery (circa 2003) it is probably the smaller Group 24. If you have been VERY GOOD with its maintenance, you should be OK. Otherwise, you would do well to replace the battery with a Group 27 or 31. I like your idea of recharging the battery inside the minivan while day tripping. The last time we camped in RNMP in our popup (1995?), I brought TWO batteries (the old one and a brand new one). I had the Amoco station in Estes Park recharge the depleted battery while we toured around for the day. They ripped me off to the tune of $10. That may not sound like much today but it sure seemed so eleven years ago - just to put a battery on a charger. We have always visited the park in early/mid June or late September - when it gets REALLY cold overnight. If you go there in July or August, you should not need to run the furnace as much as you think, provided you bundle-up and have good sleeping bags/covers. > As for the propane - if it lasts about 4 days, are there readily- > available stations in/near RMNP where we could just have the tank > refilled Yes, plenty of them. BTW, there is (was?) a laundromat in Estes Park where you can take a shower for a small fee. They provided a nice, clean facility. Also, Estes Park as a GREAT new(er) community center with indoor pool. We showered there once. > I'm assuming there are other stations around the state, when we > leave RMNP, where we could get the propane tank refilled, yes? Yes. > Is there a list of stations available anywhere? Probably, but I wouldn't worry about it. Virtually any truck stop has propane refilling service. With a second tank, you'll have less worry about that in any case. Good luck and have fun! Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 Just a note here. You should never charge a battery inside the vehicle unless you have a properly sealed and ventilated battery box. When charging, the battery emits hydrogen gas which is highly explosive. An alternative would be using jumper cables. The hevier guage and the shorter the better. You can top off the RV battery a few minutes at a time. > I like your idea of recharging the battery inside the minivan while day > tripping. > Just a note here. You should never charge a battery inside the > vehicle unless you have a properly sealed and ventilated battery [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the shorter the better. You can top off the RV battery a few > minutes at a time. Hmm, I didn't even think of using the jumper cables! What an idea! That should get me thru the week, with no problems! Thanks! SignatureEric Babula Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA Also, if running your own wire for charging, make sure it is properly fused as close as possible to the battery (not the one being charged) or if splitting off the charge line to the main battery. > Just a note here. You should never charge a battery inside the vehicle > unless you have a properly sealed and ventilated battery box. When [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> I like your idea of recharging the battery inside the minivan while day >> tripping. > While in Rocky Mtn Nat'l Park, we'll be dry camping, so we'll be relying > on the battery somewhat (fan for furnace?), and the propane for heat, > refrigerator and cooking. Will you be using something other than propane for heat, fridge and cooking when you are on shore power? > The girls will get cold, because I hear the > temps in the mountains will be in the 30s or 40s in the nights, so we > will be using the furnace pretty much every night. We have woken up with 4 inches of snow on the camper during the 3rd week of May. Yes, it does get cold at night at the upper elevations, it also can get hot the same day - wear layers! Get heavy blankets, and/or lower temperature rated sleeping bags. You may very well have to order the sleeping bags from, or go to an outdoor type store, Cabela's, Bass Pro, etc. - local Wal-Marts often do not stock sleeping bags rated lower than ~40 degrees, you're going to want them rated to say 0 or -10. When you get in bed, I know it might sound counterintuitive, but wear as little as your sense of decency/modesty allow when sleeping, you will stay warmer - ask a survival school instructor if you don't believe me. You can strip down (further) inside the bag for that matter. > We'll probably only > use the stove or grill once a day for cooking, since we'll be out > hiking/fishing/whatever all day, and tend to eat sandwiches, fruit, > trailmix, jerky, etc. a lot. > > Oh, we have only one propane tank, BTW. I would get a second one. We did that for our Taos, there was not enough room on the tongue for one, so the spare rode in the back of the truck, strapped solidly in place. After doing a tank change at ~ 3 AM one upper 30's degree morning, I put an auto-switchover on. By far the best money I had spent on the camper to date. After that, I connected the "spare" tank to the switchover, and had it sitting inside the tongue on the ground and ran off of it. Made getting it filled that much easier as I didn't have to undo the hooks from the tongue mount and wrestle it out from under the bunk. > Here's the hook: > > So, about how long should I expect the battery and propane to last on > such a trip? I've read that I could expect about 3 days for battery, and > maybe 4-5 days for propane. Does this sound about accurate? YMMV, but Angela and I have gotten 7 days out of the battery. We did not use any lights (we are up and down with the sun), had no propane detector, or 12V water pump, or anything else that drew electric. We also had the furnace on it's lowest possible setting when asleep, (literally only enough to keep frost off the sleeping bags) only giving a blast of heat in the morning to get dressed in. BTW, when giving a morning blast, if the bunk end curtains are closed, it makes a big difference in actual/perceived temperature Doing this can be hard on the battery, and is not recommended. If you run the lights minimally, or not at all; do not have, or use the electric water pump sparingly; run the furnace as little as you can and don't use anything else that draws battery power, 3 days/nights should be easily doable. (This assumes a group 31 battery in good shape and fully charged.) As far as propane goes, Angela and I seldom have to refill a tank more than once or twice a *season*, and we log as many hours as we can camping, as often as possible in the mountains. That said, I would still have a second bottle, especially with little ones camping with you. Peace of mind if nothing else. One last thing, park the camper so it gets as much (at least) morning sun as it can. At elevation, shade really means something. I have camped at 9,000 MSL, and made the mistake of camping on the east side of a canyon. I would make my coffee, then walk to the other side of the campground to stand in the sun where it was quite nice, as opposed to staying in camp and shivering. I was dressed appropriately, but being in the shade made that much difference! > Here's the ignorance, maybe: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > do that? Or, is there some sort of recharger I could get, that would > recharge the battery while we're out hiking? How do those even work? If you have the room under the hood, you could install a second battery rack, and hook the camper battery to the TV battery in parallel. I would not have a charging battery inside the vehicle. It would not take much running to charge the battery back up, a half an hour maybe. Another thing that could be done for a once in a decade trip like this is simply hook up a good heavy gauge pair of jumper cables to the PU from the TV every other day. Let the TV run for 30 minutes or so while hooked up. > As for the propane - if it lasts about 4 days, are there readily- > available stations in/near RMNP where we could just have the tank > refilled, rather than buying a second tank? Any suggestions? I'm > assuming there are other stations around the state, when we leave RMNP, > where we could get the propane tank refilled, yes? Is there a list of > stations available anywhere? I would be surprised if a 5 gallon/20 lb bottle would only last you four days. The "Mr. Buddy" heater claims to run for as long as six hours on a 16 oz bottle of propane, and kicks out a bunch of heat. 16 ounces is 1/8 of a gallon, assuming you have a "5 gallon" tank, that when full probably is charged to 4 - 4 1/2 gallons. It will give you lots of furnace time, and the fridge on propane is really just a pilot light. Especially in "camping country" such as near a NP, there will be lots of places to get a tank refilled in the unlikely event that you need to. SignatureKarl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance > Doing this can be hard on the battery, and is not recommended. If you run > the lights minimally, or not at all; do not have, or use the electric water > pump sparingly; run the furnace as little as you can and don't use anything > else that draws battery power, 3 days/nights should be easily doable. > (This assumes a group 31 battery in good shape and fully charged.) If you are referring to a car battery, dump it and get a good 100 amp hour Deep Discharge (Not a Marine). > One last thing, park the camper so it gets as much (at least) morning sun as > it can. At elevation, shade really means something. I have camped at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > shivering. I was dressed appropriately, but being in the shade made that > much difference! Won't be long and there will be lots of wide open space up there. I was in the Grand Lake area last weekend. The pine beetle is taking it's toll. Greenridge Campground (At Shadow Mountain Reservoir) is almost clear cut. Looks like a disaster area right now. It looks like half the trees on the mountain on the park side of the reservoir are dead. When the sun shines on it in the evening it is quite apparent. A ranger said it is not a question if they will have a fire but when. Near the west park entrance the trees look pretty good. > Won't be long and there will be lots of wide open space up there. > I was in the Grand Lake area last weekend. The pine beetle is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > will have a fire but when. Near the west park entrance the trees > look pretty good. The pine beetle doesn't sound like a very nice creature! I hope it's not too terrible. We'll be staying at the Glacier Basin campground for a week, which is on the east side of RMNP. But, we'll be traveling around the park, too. Thanks for the heads up, though. SignatureEric Babula Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA >> Won't be long and there will be lots of wide open space up there. >> I was in the Grand Lake area last weekend. The pine beetle is [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thanks for the heads up, though. It's the same critter that has been eating the trees for years, they are just particularly bad this year. SignatureKarl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance >> While in Rocky Mtn Nat'l Park, we'll be dry camping, so we'll be >> relying on the battery somewhat (fan for furnace?), and the [quoted text clipped - 115 lines] > lots of places to get a tank refilled in the unlikely event that > you need to. When I'm on shore power, I'll still use propane for heat and cooking, but the refrig will run on elec, I believe. Hmmm. Now that I think about it, I'm either on AC *or* Gas, aren't I? I guess I would be on gas for some of the time. I could/would switch to AC when we're away from the camper, though, which would be most of every day. Don't need heat or cooking gas if we're not there! Apparently, you don't know my girls. All three enjoy their heat way too much. For me, I'd be perfectly content sleeping in cooler temps, but they all would be very unhappy. And, three unhappy girls makes for an unhappy me. We will use the propane furnace, no matter how much I say we don't need it, or that we should just cover up with more blankets, etc. We do have sleeping bags that are rated for 20F, I believe (maybe even 0F, I can't remember), and will bring extra blankets, mittens, hats, etc., just in case. But, I'm sure the girls will call for the warm air, too - especially in the mornings, when they have to get out of bed. So, I just want to make sure I have the bases covered, just in case. I'll have to check to see if the tongue can handle a second propane tank. Maybe I'll get one before we leave. Otherwise, I just have to monitor this one closely, and make sure I refill it if/when it gets low. I do have one of those fuel-level strips on it, so I should be able to see about how much propane I have left in the tank. I could monitor that daily, and when it gets low enough, just make it a point to go get it filled up, when we're driving around. Thanks for the tip about the jumper cables to recharge the battery. Someone else also suggested that - what a good idea that I didn't even think of! But, what did you mean by 'once in a decade trip like this'??? Not likely! Three years ago, we did a 23-day trip to Utah, too! Last August, we did two weeks at Glacier National Park (our favorite place to be, so far!). In April, we did a week in Mexico. We try to take at least two good (and by good, I mean *at least* 7 days away from home/work) vacations a year! Every now and then, we just gotta get away for 2-3 weeks! Thanks for all the advice! SignatureEric Babula Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA > When I'm on shore power, I'll still use propane for heat and cooking, > but the refrig will run on elec, I believe. Hmmm. Now that I think about > it, I'm either on AC *or* Gas, aren't I? I guess I would be on gas for > some of the time. I could/would switch to AC when we're away from the > camper, though, which would be most of every day. Don't need heat or > cooking gas if we're not there! In the case of mine, the fridge gets/stays colder with gas. YMMV, but since it runs on heat, a flame is hard to beat. It has a sensor that will (should) shut off the gas if the flame goes out, so there is no reason to switch over to AC, unless that's a personal preference. I know of people that use propane when driving (let the flames begin). > I'll have to check to see if the tongue can handle a second propane > tank. Maybe I'll get one before we leave. Otherwise, I just have to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > daily, and when it gets low enough, just make it a point to go get it > filled up, when we're driving around. We did not have room for a second bottle on the tongue of our Taos, so when I put the auto-switchover valve on, just got an extra long hose and had it on the ground. Like I said, made the couple of times I did have to get refilled easier. > Thanks for the tip about the jumper cables to recharge the battery. > Someone else also suggested that - what a good idea that I didn't even [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > vacations a year! Every now and then, we just gotta get away for 2-3 > weeks! You made it sound like you were new to this, and this was "the big one". Did not mean to offend in the least. > Thanks for all the advice! We have a friendly and knowledgeable group here, enjoy! SignatureKarl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance > In the case of mine, the fridge gets/stays colder with gas. YMMV, > but since it runs on heat, a flame is hard to beat. It has a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > We have a friendly and knowledgeable group here, enjoy! I just figured I'd use the AC when it was available/free. My fridge cools better with gas, too, but still works fine with AC. Sorry - didn't mean to make it sound like I was totally new to PU camping. And, no, you certainly did not offend me. I AM new to the idea of using the propane/battery for such an extended period, though. In most other instances, we had shore power, and didn't have to use the furnace more than 2 or 3 nights total. I just figured it got pretty nippy at night in RMNP, and wanted to be prepared, since we will be dry camping for an entire week. Cub scout motto is still engrained, I guess. I've been here before, on and off, and this IS a very good group! Thanks again, Karl! SignatureEric Babula Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA >> In the case of mine, the fridge gets/stays colder with gas. YMMV, >> but since it runs on heat, a flame is hard to beat. It has a [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > I've been here before, on and off, and this IS a very good group! Thanks > again, Karl! That is the way to go. Since you are not new you most likely are aware that the refrigerator should be near level when ever in use? Someone I know pre-cooled their frig. when parked on their steeply sloping driveway. The unit lasted through warranty and then cost $1500 to replace. If you have 12 volt option be sure that your tow vehicle can supply enough current without discharging the trailer battery. This can be checked by measuring the voltage at the trailer battery with the frig running and the tow vehicle hooked up and engine running. The battery voltage should be able to stay above 13 volts. I use two 6 volt golf cart batteries hooked in series. I don't have 12 volt option for the frig. so have to run on gas when traveling. I pre-cool on AC at home. > That is the way to go. Since you are not new you most likely are > aware that the refrigerator should be near level when ever in use? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I don't have 12 volt option for the frig. so have to run on gas when > traveling. I pre-cool on AC at home. Yep, I do know to keep the PU level for optimal refrig operation. I pre- cool my refrig in my garage with AC. I use a small level to keep the PU level both front to back, and left to right. No problems, so far. I will have to check how well my TV recharges the PU battery. I have a volt meter, so that should work, I guess. I believe this shouldn't be a problem, though. As others have suggested, I could just use jumper cables to boost the PU battery once a day. Thanks! SignatureEric Babula Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body. But rather, it’s to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, 'Wow! What a ride!!!' Hmmm, I'm new to Pop-up camping also, and the remark that a refrigerator must be level concerned me. They can be used while driving to and from the campsite, correct? >>> In the case of mine, the fridge gets/stays colder with gas. YMMV, >>> but since it runs on heat, a flame is hard to beat. It has a [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > I don't have 12 volt option for the frig. so have to run on gas when > traveling. I pre-cool on AC at home. > Hmmm, I'm new to Pop-up camping also, and the remark that a refrigerator > must be level concerned me. They can be used while driving to and from the > campsite, correct? Yes. The problem is that if it is not level the ammonia droplets will not flow down the cooling pipes. If not properly level they will puddle and crystallize destroying the unit. When driving there is enough bouncing around to keep them flowing. Not to worry too much. Just comfortably level is good enough. http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/fridge.htm However, a friend with a motorhome didn't understand properly. He was told since it was a gas refrigerator it needed to be level when in use. He thought they meant that when using propane it had to be level. At home he ran his refrigerator on electric when parked in his sloping driveway. It lasted through warranty and then cost him $1500 to replace. >Hmmm, I'm new to Pop-up camping also, and the remark that a refrigerator >must be level concerned me. They can be used while driving to and from the >campsite, correct? Most of us do. The newer reefers are fairly tolerant of out of level conditions, so long as it isn't sustained. When you are moving the level constantly changes keeping the liquid ammonia moving and that is what keeps it working. As long as you don't spend several hours on a 6 or 7% grade, you will be okay. SignatureFrank Tabor > Hmmm, I'm new to Pop-up camping also, and the remark that a refrigerator > must be level concerned me. They can be used while driving to and from > the campsite, correct? My manual says it can be while driving. I am guessing the bumps and shifts are what keep it from being damaged. SignatureKarl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance >Apparently, you don't know my girls. All three enjoy their heat way too >much. For me, I'd be perfectly content sleeping in cooler temps, but >they all would be very unhappy. And, three unhappy girls makes for an >unhappy me. We will use the propane furnace, no matter how much I say we >don't need it, or that we should just cover up with more blankets, etc. You will get a couple of weeks, at least on one bottle of propane. Easy. We dry camp every weekend, March thru November, plus 2 week long vacations, and go thru 5 bottles, maybe. Tom > You will get a couple of weeks, at least on one bottle of propane. Easy. Not with a furnace. SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL >> You will get a couple of weeks, at least on one bottle of propane. Easy. > > Not with a furnace. We do. SignatureKarl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance >>> You will get a couple of weeks, at least on one bottle of propane. Easy. >> >> Not with a furnace. > >We do. Even really cold, we also go more than a couple of weeks. And we stay warm. Tom >>>> You will get a couple of weeks, at least on one bottle of propane. Easy. >>> Not with a furnace. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tom In a pop-up when it is near freezing outside at night? Perhaps even a bit of snow. I can't even do that in an insulated hard-side. >>>>> You will get a couple of weeks, at least on one bottle of propane. Easy. >>>> Not with a furnace. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >In a pop-up when it is near freezing outside at night? Perhaps even a >bit of snow. I can't even do that in an insulated hard-side. ??? I've done it many times. Waking up in the morning with icicles hanging of the bunk ends outside. Below 25 degrees the furnace begins to not keep up. With our fifth wheel, I've camped at 5 degrees, and been toasty all night. Set the thermostat at 70 and enjoy. We spent four days at that temp, never did use up one bottle. True, we had a second one just in case. (5 gallon tank). Tom >>In a pop-up when it is near freezing outside at night? Perhaps >>even a bit of snow. I can't even do that in an insulated [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Tom Well, now, this is confusing, and contradictory to what most others have been saying about the longevity of the propane tanks. I hope you're right, actually! I guess I'll err on the side of caution, and monitor my propane level and battery power every day. If I see I'm getting a bit low for comfort, I can always go somewhere and refill the tank, while out on the road, and I can top off the battery with the jumper cables. SignatureEric Babula Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA 2003 Jayco Eagle 10UD 2004 Toyota Sienna >>>In a pop-up when it is near freezing outside at night? Perhaps >>>even a bit of snow. I can't even do that in an insulated [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >I can always go somewhere and refill the tank, while out on the road, >and I can top off the battery with the jumper cables. I have yet to see a usable way to measure what's left in a tank with any type of accuracy. I always carried an extra tank. Of course, I always carried an extra battery as well. I also carried a Mr. Heater Little Buddy just in case. I hate being cold, and I camp a lot in the cold. Your space constraints may prohibit any of the above. Tom >>>>>> You will get a couple of weeks, at least on one bottle of propane. Easy. >>>>> Not with a furnace. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Tom Yeah, I do that in my 5th wheel too, but you said you went a couple weeks and I assumed you mean in a pop-up. My daughter's family goes through a bottle in two or three nights in their pop-up. We live in Colorado and spend many days in the high country. It was rather warm around Grand Lake last week. Only got down to about 40. >>>>> You will get a couple of weeks, at least on one bottle of propane. >>>>> Easy. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > In a pop-up when it is near freezing outside at night? Perhaps even a > bit of snow. I can't even do that in an insulated hard-side. We do. Have pics of the Taos under a blanket of snow. SignatureKarl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance >>>>>> You will get a couple of weeks, at least on one bottle of propane. >>>>>> Easy. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > We do. Have pics of the Taos under a blanket of snow. Of course I meant keeping the temperature above something like 50 or 60 degrees and he said he was keeping it really warm on one bottle for a couple weeks. I can't believe that in a pop-up. If you check his posting Eric said his daughters like it warm. >Of course I meant keeping the temperature above something like 50 or 60 >degrees and he said he was keeping it really warm on one bottle for a >couple weeks. I can't believe that in a pop-up. If you check his >posting Eric said his daughters like it warm. Believe what you want. Experience trumps belief. Every time. tom >> Of course I meant keeping the temperature above something like 50 or 60 >> degrees and he said he was keeping it really warm on one bottle for a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > tom I will wager that I have done a lot more cold weather camping than most. Weeks in the Colorado mountains early in the year when snow covers the ground for weeks. I,m pretty good with batteries. Here's a few ideas I,d think about. Not in order of best idea. Buy a second battery and swap it out in the mini van and let the low one charge, every other day trip. Buy a 120 volt charger and plug it in somewhere. Buy or make a 12 volt plug that you can plug into your cigarette lighter or power plug and charge the battery off your vehicle. Buy a 12 volt to 120 volt converter and hook it to your cigarette lighter and the 120 volt charger to charge your second battery off your minivan while its running. Get a solar charger and let it charge your battery in the sun. Jumper cable two batteries together. Also a deep cycle battery is designed to be run to death and recharged at least a thousand times. It works better if you completely kill it. then recharge it. It isn't supposed to be constantly charged like your car battery. If I was in this situation, I,d get a second battery, a 120 volt charger, and a 12 volt to 120 volt inverter. You can use your van, or 120 power if its available off of the charger. The charger will extend your battery life a lot because it controls the charge rate, and you can tell when it is fully charged. You can always swap batteries in the van too, no problem. and go for a ride. >> While in Rocky Mtn Nat'l Park, we'll be dry camping, so we'll be relying >> on the battery somewhat (fan for furnace?), and the propane for heat, [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > Especially in "camping country" such as near a NP, there will be lots of > places to get a tank refilled in the unlikely event that you need to. > I,m pretty good with batteries.[snip >. Also a deep cycle > battery is designed to be run to death and recharged at least a thousand > times. It works better if you completely kill it. then recharge it. Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The greater depth of discharge, the fewer recharge cycles the battery will late. "run to death" means killing the battery in short order. >> I,m pretty good with batteries.[snip >> . Also a deep cycle [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > "run to death" means killing the battery in short order. Correct!! Limit deep discharges as much as possible. He had better read: http://www.batteryfaq.org FAQ, Section 11.3 and 11.4 "a pasted plate wet battery with an average of 50% DoD will last twice as long or more as if it is has an 80% average DoD. A 20% DoD average battery can last up to five times longer than one with a 50% DoD average"
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