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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / July 2006Electrical Charging Question
Rather than opening my trailer all the time to top up the batteries with a charge, would I be able to connect the battery charger to the toe jack 7 pin wiring harness on the 2 pins that connect to the battery? >Rather than opening my trailer all the time to top up the batteries >with a charge, would I be able to connect the battery charger to the >toe jack 7 pin wiring harness on the 2 pins that connect to the battery? Sure. You might even get a 7 pin connector to plug into it, remove the unneeded wires, leaving only the wires for pos/neg exposed. Providing of course that the connector in question has some sizable wire in it. And providing you are not pouring massive amperage in it. Tom >> Rather than opening my trailer all the time to top up the batteries >> with a charge, would I be able to connect the battery charger to the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tom Agree, get a 7 pin socket and put a couple wires on it. (Probably won't be any wires on it) http://marksrv.com/wiring.htm Where is your battery? Does it have ventilation to the outside? > Rather than opening my trailer all the time to top up the batteries > with a charge, would I be able to connect the battery charger to the > toe jack 7 pin wiring harness on the 2 pins that connect to the battery? Usually the wires coming from the connector are too small to handle charging other than slow trickle as is done from the tow vehicle. >> Rather than opening my trailer all the time to top up the batteries >> with a charge, would I be able to connect the battery charger to the >> toe jack 7 pin wiring harness on the 2 pins that connect to the battery? > > Usually the wires coming from the connector are too small to handle > charging other than slow trickle as is done from the tow vehicle. They are usually #10. That should be more than enough for what he wants, "Top up the batteries". #10 is rated for 14.8 amperes. > Rather than opening my trailer all the time to top up the batteries > with a charge, would I be able to connect the battery charger to the > toe jack 7 pin wiring harness on the 2 pins that connect to the battery? I installed two remote charging posts (Summit Racing Equipment via Amazon $14.95+) on the wall of my pop-up next to the battery and can quick charge with a 3 way charger. Seems more efficient than going through the wiring harness.Also installed a shut- off (West Marine, $29.95) to be safe. Eddie Thanks for all the replies. I ended up getting a 7 pin harness, and some 10 gauge trailer wire. Charged it up at 6 amps, worked like a charm. It was taking a 12 amp charge as well. I was considering buying a small charger with a auto off feature, and just wiring it into the trailers 120V supply, then all i have to do is plug in the trailer and it will charge. I imagine its similar to the full size trailers with built in charging systems. > > Rather than opening my trailer all the time to top up the batteries > > with a charge, would I be able to connect the battery charger to the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > $29.95) to be safe. > Eddie > Thanks for all the replies. I ended up getting a 7 pin harness, and > some 10 gauge trailer wire. Charged it up at 6 amps, worked like a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > plug in the trailer and it will charge. I imagine its similar to the > full size trailers with built in charging systems. Your trailer doesn't have a converter to supply 12 volts? http://www.rversonline.org/ArtTipsConverter.html >> Thanks for all the replies. I ended up getting a 7 pin harness, and >> some 10 gauge trailer wire. Charged it up at 6 amps, worked like a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >http://www.rversonline.org/ArtTipsConverter.html Many converters do not have a charging section. Tom >>> Thanks for all the replies. I ended up getting a 7 pin harness, and >>> some 10 gauge trailer wire. Charged it up at 6 amps, worked like a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Tom Hmm, seems to me that anything that puts out more than 12 volts will charge a battery. May not be a "smart charger" but should provide some charge. Even the cheapest 6 amp Elixir lists as being able to charge batteries. Got an example of any that doesn't? I just never saw one that couldn't. >>>> Thanks for all the replies. I ended up getting a 7 pin harness, and >>>> some 10 gauge trailer wire. Charged it up at 6 amps, worked like a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > batteries. Got an example of any that doesn't? I just never saw one > that couldn't. To expand on that a little more. If he has a converter I would expect it to be connected to the battery. Usually need that to smooth out the output. Problem with most those cheap converters is that they tend to overcharge over time. So if he is going to hook an external charger to the battery I would not want the converter turned on as well, which would happen if he hooked to to the trailer internal 120 volt outlets. If the battery is disconnected I would not want power to the converter. So I would then run a separate 110 cord line to the charger. >To expand on that a little more. If he has a converter I would expect >it to be connected to the battery. Nope. If it is a non-charging type, the only connection would be at the switch that flips it from 110 thru the converter, or from the battery to the lights, water pump etc. In that type, you could essentially rip out the converter as long as you kept the switch, and the trailer would work normally off the battery. > Usually need that to smooth out the >output. Problem with most those cheap converters is that they tend to >overcharge over time. Only if it is the charging type of converter. >So if he is going to hook an external charger to the battery I would not >want the converter turned on as well, which would happen if he hooked to >to the trailer internal 120 volt outlets. Not so. *If* it is a charging converter, it can pump juice into it, right along with an external charger without damage to the system. Do it all the time in the MH. I asked the same question years ago at rec.outdoors.rv-travel. Been doing it ever since. >If the battery is >disconnected I would not want power to the converter. So I would then >run a separate 110 cord line to the charger. Some say yes, some say no. I've never gotten a definitive answer. It may depend on the brand of converter. If it is a non-charging converter, it doesn't matter. Tom > Not so. *If* it is a charging converter, it can pump juice into it, > right along with an external charger without damage to the system. Do > it all the time in the MH. I asked the same question years ago at > rec.outdoors.rv-travel. Been doing it ever since. As far as I am concerned any converter is a charging type. I made a few 12 volt power supplies for ham transmitters. Just got a big 12 volt transformer and made a regulator for them. They would work to a limited degree for charging batteries too. I never liked the idea of using two unbalanced supplies for charging. As I said I never saw a converter that wasn't made to be hooked to a battery. Most prefer it as the battery acts like a big capacitor. Without the battery the converter need a lot more filtering. If not hooked up or their output voltage would be kind of noisy. My background is electrical so perhaps I tend to get a bit critical of some of the hookups. Ran into something kind of interesting a while ago. Someone parked next to me at a CG where we had electrical hookups (only National Forest CG I know of in CO that has electrical hookups) was having trouble with the GFCI of the campground tripping whenever they turned something on in their trailer. They said it worked fine at home but whenever they were in a CG with GFCI they had troubles. I got out my meter and concluded that their problem was that the ground and return was tied together in the trailer. So some of the return current flowed in the return and some in the ground. We hooked up a connector for them that didn't have the ground line and it worked fine. So when they got home they were going to open up their converter and try to find out where the lines were hooked together. >> Not so. *If* it is a charging converter, it can pump juice into it, >> right along with an external charger without damage to the system. Do >> it all the time in the MH. I asked the same question years ago at >> rec.outdoors.rv-travel. Been doing it ever since. > >As far as I am concerned any converter is a charging type. Nope. Not unless you modify it. You may know about electricity, but you don't know about converters if you maintain that stance. > I made a few >12 volt power supplies for ham transmitters. Just got a big 12 volt >transformer and made a regulator for them. They would work to a limited >degree for charging batteries too. > >I never liked the idea of using two unbalanced supplies for charging. My smart charger "sees" the Converter charger, and reduces the input accordingly, so I don't really gain anything by doing it, other than the inconvenience of unplugging the RV. >As I said I never saw a converter that wasn't made to be hooked to a >battery. Then you haven't seen them all. The older they get, the more non-charging converters there are. > Most prefer it as the battery acts like a big capacitor. >Without the battery the converter need a lot more filtering. If not >hooked up or their output voltage would be kind of noisy. Never had that problem, though you may be right. >My background is electrical so perhaps I tend to get a bit critical of >some of the hookups. Tom >>> Not so. *If* it is a charging converter, it can pump juice into it, >>> right along with an external charger without damage to the system. Do [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Nope. Not unless you modify it. You may know about electricity, but > you don't know about converters if you maintain that stance. A converter is nothing more than a 12 volt regulated power supply. Hook the 12 volt output to a battery and the battery will go to the same voltage as the converter. No modification necessary. > My smart charger "sees" the Converter charger, and reduces the input > accordingly, so I don't really gain anything by doing it, other than > the inconvenience of unplugging the RV. Not being familiar with your Converter charger I can't really comment If a smart charger is hooked in parallel with a converter with a fixed output (usually about 13.2 volts), the converter voltage is normally blocked by the higher voltage of the smart charger as it goes through it's cycle. The output of a smart charger will build up during the Bulk charging period and hold at about 14.5 volts during the absorption stage. During that time there will be no current flow to the battery from the converter. When the smart charger completes it's cycle it drops to a voltage that is normally about 13.2 volts which is usually the converter output. If both are connected the one with the higher voltage would handle most of the load. Maybe do some sharing of any load. > A converter is nothing more than a 12 volt regulated power supply. Wrong. Some of the converters are unregulated. > Hook the 12 volt output to a battery and the battery will go to the same > voltage as the converter. No modification necessary. An unregulated converter could function as a charger of last resort, but you could either blow up the converter if the battery was too low (my converter is only 8 amps) or you could overcharge the battery. My converter manual warns to not connect it to a battery. >>>> Not so. *If* it is a charging converter, it can pump juice into it, >>>> right along with an external charger without damage to the system. Do [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Hook the 12 volt output to a battery and the battery will go to the same >voltage as the converter. No modification necessary. The modification is "Hook the 12 volt output to a battery", as you put it. That is a modification on a non charging converter. Therefore, a modification *is* necessary. Tom > As far as I am concerned any converter is a charging type. That may be true but, due to the way my (bought new) 1987 Starcraft Galaxy would built - with a double pole rocker switch between the converter and the battery - the converter did NOT charge the battery. I ended up hard-wiring a 1-amp trickle charger to the battery that was on all the time when connected to shore power. Not until I placed a 10-gauge wire from the THIRD tow vehicle's battery all the back through the 7-pin Bargman and to the battery was I ever able to recharge the battery while towing after a dry camp. I usually just came home and hooked the battery to a 10-amp charger. Having the battery in a (properly vented) battery box INSIDE the popup, UNDER a dinette seat was a pain in the @$$. They've come a long way, for sure! (I love my Honda)  Signature:) JR >>>> Thanks for all the replies. I ended up getting a 7 pin harness, and >>>> some 10 gauge trailer wire. Charged it up at 6 amps, worked like a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >batteries. Got an example of any that doesn't? I just never saw one >that couldn't. Again, many converters do not charge the battery. They simply weren't designed to do that. It may be possible one could jury rig one of those types to do so, I wouldn't know. Nor do I have the electrical expertise to know what to do to accomplish that. There has to be a reason the makers charge more money for a charging converter than a non-charging one. And yes, I suppose anything that puts out 13.8 volts or above could be made to charge a battery, but I wouldn't expect 9 AA batteries to do a very good job of charging a group 24 battery, would you? And yes, I have an example. My converter on my Starcraft isn't designed to charge the battery, nor is my buddy's Coleman pop-up. Tom >>>> Thanks for all the replies. I ended up getting a 7 pin harness, and >>>> some 10 gauge trailer wire. Charged it up at 6 amps, worked like a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > batteries. Got an example of any that doesn't? I just never saw one > that couldn't. The low end of the old Magnatek line didn't have charging sections. I believe the model that was in my trailer was 6612, 12 amp converter, no charger. > The low end of the old Magnatek line didn't have charging sections. I > believe the model that was in my trailer was 6612, 12 amp converter, no > charger. Ditto, except I believe mine is 8 amp. It has no regulation whatsoever, just a transformer and a full-wave rectifier. >> The low end of the old Magnatek line didn't have charging sections. I >> believe the model that was in my trailer was 6612, 12 amp converter, no [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It has no regulation whatsoever, just a transformer and a full-wave > rectifier. Never saw the inside of one but I with just the transformer and rectifier it is identical to a cheap battery charger:-). Hooking a battery to it would provide some regulation. However, as with many of those cheap ones you end up boiling away the battery. |
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