Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2006
Pop up Advice for New Campers
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mom2rj1995-ashleigh@yahoo.com - 18 Jul 2006 15:53 GMT We have decided to forego the tent camping with the family and look into purchasing our first Pop up. We're looking for pre owned since we don't want to spend more than $2,000 - $3000, but we aren't sure what we should look for in options/equipment. We know we want at least a 6 sleeper. We will be pulling with either a 2001 Mazda Tribute or a 2003 Toyota Sienna Mini van (both equipped with 3500 towing packages) A local dealer told us he has a 2001 Dutchman 801 coming in later this week on a trade, but he don't know the details on it yet. A friend told us that Coleman/Fleetwood is one of the best, does anyone know about Dutchman's reputation? Also, any advice on what to look for when shopping for a pop up would be fantastic...Thanks... Susan
tobe - 18 Jul 2006 16:23 GMT The most common, and probably best, advice people like you get from this group about choosing which brand of pop-up to buy is: find out the reputation of the local dealers. Are they knowledgeable? What are they like when the pop-up has to be serviced? Are they responsive and do they have good communication? If you find one with that reputation, buy from that dealer, whatever the brand.
Depending upon what part of the country you live in, you will need either a furnace, or an air conditioner, or both. Furnaces have a fairly long life, but most A/C units are warrantied for only two or three years, and they are expensive to fix and replace. I am assuming the unit will come with a "three way" (110 VAC, 12 VDC, and propane) refrigerator (also darn expensive to replace, BTW). An awning is very nice - actually nearly essential. A screen room which attaches to the awning is a luxury. I love mine!
If the unit has brakes (I think this one does) it will need a good battery on the front (activates the brakes if the unit 'breaks away' when towing). A good deep cycle battery is required, and should be in good shape and hold a charge!
You should ask about the last time the wheel bearings were inspected and repacked or replaced (most folks here recommend that be done yearly).
Of course you should look at the pop-up thoroughly. Does it smell of cigarettes? Does it open and close smoothly? Do the brakes work (dealer should test them for you)? How worn is the canvas? Do all the appliances work, including the stove, both inside and outside? Does it have an electric pump for the faucet? Does it have a hot water heater? Is there any evidence of any leaking anywhere? What does the caulking on the outside of the unit look like? Is there any evidence of any repairs having been done? What kind of shape is the spare tire in? How do the mattresses feel when you lie on them? (Many pop-up mattresses are thin. Some people replace them, or put a 3 inch memory foam cover on them.) Most pop-ups which sleep six have a bed at either end (check out the size: queen or double?), and one or two other spaces where some pillows are placed over a board where the table folds down. In other words, sleeping 6 adults is often not an option. Or tall teenagers, either.
You will need a brake controller for your tow vehicle. Most people recommend the Tekonsha brand (Prodigy). A 3500 lbs. tow rating sounds adequate, too.
I am sure others will add more thoughts.
HTH
> We have decided to forego the tent camping with the family and look > into purchasing our first Pop up. We're looking for pre owned since we [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > shopping for a pop up would be fantastic...Thanks... > Susan Shadow - 18 Jul 2006 21:19 GMT I enjoyed a Coleman for ten years with few problems. It had a metal roof with a center seam. Once had to replace the AC gasket when it developed a leak. I understand there has been some trouble with cracks in the one piece hard plastic roofs. My old Coleman sat outside for years and the only problem was dents in the roof from hailstorms. If you get a trailer with AC I'd invest in a device to screen the back of the AC from such problems.
Depending on climate I'd go with an AC and perhaps a furnace. In Texas the furnace would be largely a waste. Have the AC checked.
My old unit had a very dependable stove inside, but we rarely used it for other than additional counter space. In a perfect world my pop-up would have an auxillary stove attachment for outside the trailer under the canopy and near the front door. Gives the option cooking outside without having to go far. Somehow its easier to clean up outside than inside, and it doesn't heat up the trailer.
The 3way fridge is nice, but usually quite small in a pop-up. I'd recommend getting one of those small combination warmer/cooler things and using it (assumes you will have power available). The 3way is great if you get off road, something you can do in a pop-up.
An awning is pretty essential, expands your space tremendously in bad weather, and the shade can be very helpful. A screen room can be helpful, another option is solid walls.
My wife insisted finally that I get a small porta-pottie for natures night call. This is an option on most new units. The older pop-ups frequently have a convenient storage cabinet.
You may find one with a hot water heater, but they take up valuable space in the trailer. If it has one the trailer likely has either an outside shower or one inside. Again, you give up space for the inside shower.
Since you are moving up from tent camping the mattress may seem like a luxury, but there are differences. Before you go buying foam mattress pads check to make sure the slides will work properly with the extra mattress thickness.
Thats all that comes to mind at this point. The end of the Summer is usually a great time to find a bargain on a used trailer. Take your time and look around, you can probably find a better deal from an individual than a dealer.
Enjoy
>We have decided to forego the tent camping with the family and look >into purchasing our first Pop up. We're looking for pre owned since we [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >shopping for a pop up would be fantastic...Thanks... >Susan altar@nospam.net - 18 Jul 2006 21:51 GMT >I'd >recommend getting one of those small combination warmer/cooler things >and using it (assumes you will have power available). Yabut... they only warm/cool to 40 degrees from ambient. Example: 100 degrees outside, 60 degrees in the cooler.
Tom
mom2rj1995-ashleigh@yahoo.com - 18 Jul 2006 22:19 GMT Thank you so much for the great information. We are in CT and the dealer we are hoping to deal with is very popular and has a good reputation. I'm going to print out these posts to make sure we don't miss a thing when we go look at it.
Susan
> >I'd > >recommend getting one of those small combination warmer/cooler things [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tom wayne mak - 21 Jul 2006 02:06 GMT I live in CT just bought my first pop up too. We are going on our first outing friday. Try www.bargainnews.com they will have an RV section with about 20 local sellers with popups
> Thank you so much for the great information. We are in CT and the > dealer we are hoping to deal with is very popular and has a good [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> Tom Shadow - 19 Jul 2006 01:38 GMT You are correct on that. but I kept it on top of the stove which I seldom used. With the inside temp at 78-80 degrees it was a nice place for items which do well at about 40 degrees. Kept the butter, eggs, cheese, etc. out of the ice chest.
My son used it for years to keep sodas cold in his room inside the house.
>>I'd >>recommend getting one of those small combination warmer/cooler things [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Tom Jim Redelfs - 18 Jul 2006 23:49 GMT > our first Pop up. We're looking for pre owned > local dealer told us he has a 2001 Dutchman > Coleman/Fleetwood is one of the best, does anyone know > about Dutchman's reputation? Also, any advice on what to look for Folding trailers, aka pop-up campers, aka tent trailers, are "entry level" RVs. IMHO, Dutchmen is the entry-level of entry level popups. Then you are looking at used.
While walking inside the camper, if you detect soft or mushy spots underfoot, you would be well advised to walk away. That is a tell tale sign of water penetration and rot. The floor in our (bought new) 1987 Starcraft rotted-out right from under us. (I neglected to correct a hidden leak.)
Your NOSE is probably the best indicator of mold, mildew and dry rot. For best detection, you should enter the camper IMMEDIATELY after it has been popped-up. If you inspect the camper after it has been open and aired out for any length of time, you lose that detection advantage.
Check ALL systems. A gas/electric refrigerator is nice but, due to its incredibly small size, its value is debatable. When our 1.9 cu.ft. died, the replacement cost was so incredibly high that I had it removed and a cavernous storage compartment made in its place. We always packed an ice cooler anyway.
The "bag" awning on our Starcraft was a royal PITA to deploy and stow. I eventually REMOVED it. I would then re-install it for our annual, week-long family campout. For the rest of the season, it lived in our garage. To their credit, modern bag awnings are SOMEWHAT easier to use.
You are probably interested in a camping trailer because you are tired of sleeping on the ground in a tent - a LOT of work. An awning, screen-room or add-a-room adds a LOT more work to an otherwise easier camping experience.
Many folks believe that an air conditioner is essential. That was one of the only TWO options I did NOT get on our popup. The other was a shower. It's a TENT, fer pete's sake! Good luck!
 Signature :) JR
Karl & Angela - 01 Aug 2006 15:28 GMT > The "bag" awning on our Starcraft was a royal PITA to deploy and stow. I > eventually REMOVED it. I would then re-install it for our annual, > week-long > family campout. For the rest of the season, it lived in our garage. To > their credit, modern bag awnings are SOMEWHAT easier to use. I never saw how you had to put up your awning, but on both our Taos, and the Allegiance, the bag awning is quite easy for me to put up. I won't put it up if we are just spending a night somewhere, but if it's more than an overnight it always goes up. Course, my height does make it somewhat easier than it would be otherwise, but it can be set up in 5 minutes or so, solo.
> You are probably interested in a camping trailer because you are tired of > sleeping on the ground in a tent - a LOT of work. An awning, screen-room > or add-a-room adds a LOT more work to an otherwise easier camping > experience. We did not opt for a screen room, but would not be without our awning. It does add a nice place to sit out of the sun or the rain, and really helps keep the sun from heating up the camper as much as it would otherwise during the day.
> Many folks believe that an air conditioner is essential. That was one of > the > only TWO options I did NOT get on our popup. The other was a shower. > It's a > TENT, fer pete's sake! Good luck! I cannot see an air conditioner for a tent-camper either, especially for people who already camp in tents in the same area. If it is so hot that you cannot be without AC, then stay home. The furnace however adds several months onto our camping season, and is essential when camping in high country.
The Allegiance has an outdoor shower, and Angela bought a shower enclosure that sets up nicely to make it usable even in a campground (we try as much as possible to NOT be in campgrounds). It has become a very nice thing to have.
 Signature Karl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance
Linkd@mindspring.com - 03 Aug 2006 00:27 GMT >I cannot see an air conditioner for a tent-camper either, especially for >people who already camp in tents in the same area. If it is so hot that >you cannot be without AC, then stay home I think you should have thought a little about this prior to sticking your foot in your mouth. First the electric is usually free. Second it helps to keep the food and refrig and stored food for a family from spoiling. I think the air condition offers a chanch for a good night sleep when you have a full day of activities such as visiting the Dells or such. After a hot day of activity the AC offers a humane enviroment. Not everyone needs to camp like a tent camper. One of the reasons for buying a popup is to upgrade from tent camping.
Stay home if it is too hot. Wonder where you are from. Sometimes the whole month of July and August is hot. In fact the whole country is in a very high heat condition. Quess we should all stay home. My daughter and and Myself and my three grandkids just came back from a weeks trip to the Dells and the AC was a lifesaver. If you do not believe me you should have taken a poll of those popups that did not have AC and you might have gotten and education.
A lot of popup owners have a lot of activities included in their camping trips during the day and it sure is nice to relax at the end of it.
Karl & Angela - 03 Aug 2006 04:23 GMT >>I cannot see an air conditioner for a tent-camper either, especially for >>people who already camp in tents in the same area. If it is so hot that >>you cannot be without AC, then stay home > > I think you should have thought a little about this prior to sticking > your foot in your mouth. First the electric is usually free. I have yet to see or even hear of a free electric site, they common in your area are they?
> Second > it helps to keep the food and refrig and stored food for a family from > spoiling. I was unaware the a refrig could spoil in the heat, learn something every day.
> I think the air condition offers a chanch for a good night > sleep when you have a full day of activities such as visiting the > Dells or such. Frankly, I think I care even less for what you think than you do what I think.
 Signature Karl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance
Mark Filice - 04 Aug 2006 18:22 GMT >I think you should have thought a little about this prior to sticking >your foot in your mouth. First the electric is usually free. Second [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >enviroment. Not everyone needs to camp like a tent camper. One of >the reasons for buying a popup is to upgrade from tent camping. Wow! Are you sure your aren't from rec.outdoors.rv-travel? Pretty salty for this group. BTW, I'm for AC as an option. When it is hot, it is a great thing to have.
I've been RVing for a long time--and electric hook-ups at campgrounds have NEVER been free. Included in the cost of the site, yes. But free? No way. I'm going camping next week, and the site we have with full hook-ups is going to run about $25.00 per night.
Our friends are going to be next to us in a tent. Their cost? $7.50 per night.
So I am paying $17.50 per night for something--and I know that part of the cost is the electric into the site.
AC doesn't keep my food cold. Electricity does, as it runs the refrigerator.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." --Mark Twain
Mark 2004 Homestead Settler 255RS 1999 Chevrolet Suburban 2500
Tomes - 05 Aug 2006 14:34 GMT > In article <anc2d2tgk1s5nj5ru242hemv7o8olenqht@4ax.com>, > Linkd@mindspring.com [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > about > $25.00 per night. I know that it was not how it was written, but in my little mind I interpreted Linkd's comment of "electric is usually free" as meaning 'additional' electric 'for the AC' is usually free 'once you are already in a site that has electricity'. My assumption was that a camper would already be in a camper site. Yep, alot of assuming here, but this is how it went. Tomes
Tony Wesley - 05 Aug 2006 17:08 GMT > Wow! Are you sure your aren't from rec.outdoors.rv-travel? Pretty salty for this > group. BTW, I'm for AC as an option. When it is hot, it is a great thing to > have. If people want AC, that's fine. I don't have it but that's because I'm a cheapskate.
> I've been RVing for a long time--and electric hook-ups at campgrounds have NEVER > been free. Included in the cost of the site, yes. But free? No way. In Michigan State Parks, most sites have electricity. You could argue that it's not free but included in the price. There are some State Parks with rustic sites. These don't include electricity nor do they include use of the bathhouse. Pit toilets. Those sites are cheaper. But these parks are the exception.
Jim Redelfs - 05 Aug 2006 17:55 GMT > There are some State Parks with rustic sites. These don't include > electricity nor do they include use of the bathhouse. Pit toilets. > Those sites are cheaper. But these parks are the exception. I agree they are the exception.
In my experience, "primitive" or non-modern campsites (no hookups) are closer to pit/vault toilets than the flush facilities, usually grouped with the shower facilities, but these "modern" facilities are available to ALL registered campers.
 Signature :) JR
Tony Wesley - 05 Aug 2006 18:52 GMT > > There are some State Parks with rustic sites. These don't include > > electricity nor do they include use of the bathhouse. Pit toilets. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > shower facilities, but these "modern" facilities are available to ALL > registered campers. Not in my experience. I have purchased "shower passes" while staying at the rivermouth unit at Tahqumenon State Park.
One of my camping companions was challenged at the bath house by a park ranger, asking for the permit.
Rich256 - 05 Aug 2006 18:55 GMT >> There are some State Parks with rustic sites. These don't include >> electricity nor do they include use of the bathhouse. Pit toilets. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > shower facilities, but these "modern" facilities are available to ALL > registered campers. Of the "hundreds" of National Forest Campgrounds in Colorado I think there is only one that has about a dozen sites with water and electricity. Then again there are very few where you would even want air conditioning. For me, I only like to get them for use with electric heat.
Most state parks now have electric but no water, and that is mostly due to the money flowing from the gambling profits of Central City and Cripple Creek. There are a few state parks out on the prairie where air conditioning could be nice.
Linkd@mindspring.com - 05 Aug 2006 23:55 GMT >>I think you should have thought a little about this prior to sticking >>your foot in your mouth. First the electric is usually free. Second [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >2004 Homestead Settler 255RS >1999 Chevrolet Suburban 2500 It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than>to open it and remove all doubt."
>--Mark Twain Good lord you should follow your own advice. Talk about me posting a caustic post. Yours is actually even more so.
Of course electric is not free, but if you park a camper the cost will be the same if you use electric or not. In all of the campsites I have been to there is not a great savings over tent or popup camping unless you specifically reserve a primitive site. I would like to see a RV unit get to these sites. In a lot of campsites you pay the same for tent or campers. The prices you are quoting is an exception rather than the norm, especially when the tent site is not primitive.
AC may not keep food cold, but it sure can stop a lot of food and treats from becoming spoiled with extreme heat. Last weeks temperatures were in high 90s and the humity made it feel like 105 degrees. I can honestly say the AC was a life saver. Especially with young grandchildren.
Besides why spend all the money on a camping unit like yours unless you really wanted comfort and are willing to pay for it. I would worry much more about gas prices.
By the way what is the campsite location you are referring to in your reply. I would really like to be able to check out the site and see if your facts are correct. Please post the location or is it an imaginary location.
Mark Filice - 06 Aug 2006 18:39 GMT >>Besides why spend all the money on a camping unit like yours unless >you really wanted comfort and are willing to pay for it. I would [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >if your facts are correct. Please post the location or is it an >imaginary location. Golden Pines RV Resort in Arnold CA.
BTW, I don't worry that much about gas prices. There are enough camping places within a 200 mile radius of where I live it could take decades to camp at all of them.
I don't suffer fools very easily. So I won't be responding to your posts anymore.
Mark "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't"
Karl & Angela - 06 Aug 2006 23:20 GMT > I don't suffer fools very easily. So I won't be responding to your posts > anymore. I don't either, but will give him one more chance before putting him on ignore. I figure everyone deserves a second chance, though his reply to you almost counted, I'll give him one more.
> Mark > "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't" I like your tag line. Just ordered a T-shirt today:
http://thoseshirts.com/atf.html
 Signature Karl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance
Mark Filice - 07 Aug 2006 18:49 GMT >> I don't suffer fools very easily. So I won't be responding to your posts >> anymore. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I like your tag line. Just ordered a T-shirt today: Thanks. I took a look at that site and probably can buy my brother in law's Christmas present from there.
I did a google search on Linkd's posting history and it just confirms my suspicions about the way he treats people.
Too much hassle to be bothered with for me.
Mark
Linkd@mindspring.com - 09 Aug 2006 10:49 GMT >Thanks. I took a look at that site and probably can buy my brother in law's >Christmas present from there. > >I did a google search on Linkd's posting history and it just confirms my >suspicions about the way he treats peopl Yeh two messages only and to you. Bye!
Linkd@mindspring.com - 07 Aug 2006 00:21 GMT >>>Besides why spend all the money on a camping unit like yours unless >>you really wanted comfort and are willing to pay for it. I would [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Mark >"Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't" Golden Pines RV Resort in Arnold CA
Hmmm California. Might explain your attitude.
Golden Pines web site still has 2003 listed.
NEW for the 2003 season! Come play on our new redwood playground - the "Sun Ship" by Backyard Adventures!
url: http://www.goldenpinesrvresort.com/
Accessed only 37,000 since 1994????
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/goldenpines/index.html
Also, for the life of me there is absolutly no links for prices of camping site. Plus the tent site is a dedicated 2 and half acrea area. Sounds so exciting if you want to use a tent on your RV campsite.
I quess you could apply the words to you of the person who stated:
"Fools step in where wise men fail to tread."
You really must not like your self if you can suffer fools easily!!!!
asadi - 19 Jul 2006 12:22 GMT first, ya gotta learn to google...
john
> We have decided to forego the tent camping with the family and look > into purchasing our first Pop up. We're looking for pre owned since we [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > shopping for a pop up would be fantastic...Thanks... > Susan Ed H - 19 Jul 2006 23:21 GMT > first, ya gotta learn to google... Why? Why do so many of you folks try and direct questionnaires to go and 'Google?' Why not just answer the question? That's why we come here, to get advice from experienced pop-up campers. If you don't feel like taking the time to write a response then just don't write anything or should we start calling this newsgroup 'go and Google.'.
 Signature Ed, Sandy, E.J. and Misty 2001 Rockwood Freedom 1950 1994 Ford Explorer XLT
Tony Wesley - 20 Jul 2006 01:36 GMT > > first, ya gotta learn to google... > > Why? Why do so many of you folks try and direct questionnaires to go and > 'Google?' Why not just answer the question? Because it's already been answered?
As they say, GLOG.
tobe - 20 Jul 2006 02:54 GMT >> first, ya gotta learn to google... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the time to write a response then just don't write anything or should we > start calling this newsgroup 'go and Google.'. I agree. I am here to learn, and share what I have learned with others of like mind and interest.
Ask away!
Tony Wesley - 20 Jul 2006 04:23 GMT > I agree. I am here to learn, and share what I have learned with others of > like mind and interest. But remember, give a man an answer to his question and you've solved the problem for a day.
But teach him how to search for answers and you've given him the key to answer many of his questions for the rest of his life.
On the other hand, he'll probably waste so much time looking up totally irrelvant things on the internet that he'll forget what he was trying to do in the first place. :)
Linkd@mindspring.com - 22 Jul 2006 04:44 GMT >>> first, ya gotta learn to google... >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Ask away! I think Google is a start for a ton of information. A heck of a lot more than is posted in this group. Information posted here is very limited. What is wron with typing the same question in google and and reading. There is noting wrong with sharing, but seriously if you want an unlimited amount of information and you do not use google first you are either unaware of the information and how to get it or you are lazy and stupid.
Jim Redelfs - 20 Jul 2006 03:18 GMT >> first, ya gotta learn to google...
> Why? Because, if one hasn't used Google, it is a WONDERFUL resource.
> Why do so many of you folks try and direct questionnaires to go > and 'Google?' I wonder the same thing, although, compared to the other newsgroups I read, there aren't really THAT many HERE that fall back on that cop-out.
> Why not just answer the question? It's a reasonable assumption that they don't know the answer.
> If you don't feel like taking the time to write a response > then just don't write anything Wotta concept! :)
> or should we start calling this newsgroup 'go and Google.'. Nah. Like I said, there's not much of that going on in this particular newsgroup.
I should reveal that, in preparing many of my replies, *I* use Google.
Simply replying "use Google" is bad form and impolite.
Factoid: Webster's Dictionary has just added "Google" as a verb. <sigh>
It DOES roll off the tongue better than "DejaNews" - Google's predecessor.
 Signature :) JR
miles - 20 Jul 2006 05:14 GMT >> first, ya gotta learn to google... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > time to write a response then just don't write anything or should we start > calling this newsgroup 'go and Google.'. Because often a question is a very common one. It gets answered and 2 days later its asked again, answered, a day later its asked again and so on. Common question should be searched first then ask if there are still questions that need to be answered.
tobe - 20 Jul 2006 16:06 GMT >>> first, ya gotta learn to google... >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > on. Common question should be searched first then ask if there are still > questions that need to be answered. Yes, but...if you don't want to answer the common question: then just don't! Better still, develop an FAQ of pop-up camping that we all can use and refer to.
In the meantime, some of the rest of us are happy to chime in and answer common questions!
Bill Toth - 20 Jul 2006 22:52 GMT > Yes, but...if you don't want to answer the common question: then just > don't! Better still, develop an FAQ of pop-up camping that we all can use > and refer to. Already done: http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv/PopupFAQ.html
miles - 21 Jul 2006 00:39 GMT > Yes, but...if you don't want to answer the common question: then just > don't! Better still, develop an FAQ of pop-up camping that we all can use > and refer to. > > In the meantime, some of the rest of us are happy to chime in and answer > common questions! Thats all true. I answer too but people should try to see if their question has already got threads going for the issue rather than start another one. I've seen cases where one issue has 10+ separate threads going at the same time.
asadi - 20 Jul 2006 22:12 GMT Ed my boy, I've answered questions freely. I've posted links to various answers that I've googled for.
john
>> first, ya gotta learn to google... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the time to write a response then just don't write anything or should we > start calling this newsgroup 'go and Google.'. john & ginger - 22 Jul 2006 19:02 GMT For sure goggle is ok but it nice to hear other comments......
>> first, ya gotta learn to google... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the time to write a response then just don't write anything or should we > start calling this newsgroup 'go and Google.'.
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