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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2006Is it worth it for me to get a Pop-up?
Greetings, New to this rv thing, which is why I come with a question. I live in Missouri. My wife is into the outdoors and camping. I never really have been. We are going to Colorado for a week in August, and were going to stay in a tent in a park. The suggestion came up to look into getting a pop-up. Her parents have an airstream, btw. We are looking at this Rockwood from the same dealer as the Airstream: http://www.forestriverinc.com/nd/floorplanview.asp?name=1&cat=Rhino%20High%20Wal l%20Campers&page=rktc&loc=rockwoodhiwall&direc=tentcampers/rockwood/floorplans Actually, we looked at several, but I liked this one the best. Price is around $13,500. I figure if we got it, we could use it on this trip, maybe a couple weekends in the fall and Spring in Branson, maybe a couple of other weekends around Missouri visiting parks and caves and such. I also like visiting places with hotels, like New York, and I'd like to get to Las Vegas in contrast to camping. So, I guess we'd max the camper out like 20-30 nights through next summer. I'm also not a maintenance type person, so repairs and such would go to the dealer. Am I going to get my money out of this? Or do people with popups or rvs normally go camping every other weekend through the temperate year? Apparently these hold value pretty well, so I guess I could sell it in one or two years and get most of my cash back. Anyhoo, any opinions would be appreciated. I read through the FAQ too, by the way. Very useful. oj > Greetings, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > oj First of all, are you equipped for pulling? Do you have a class three receiver and trailer brake control? RVs rarely payoff. For a pop-up I would suggest you rent. If you are equipped for pulling (Remember you have to pull that rig up some pretty steep hills) , for the Colorado trip you might even consider renting one in the area: http://www.nolans.com/ http://www.adventurecamper.com/ Buying a new one the value takes a huge drop when you drive out the door. My opinion is that they are a very poor investment. Find a good used one. Airstreams probably hold their price better than most. One warm day when driving up I70 towards the Eisenhower tunnel I saw at least a dozen front wheel drive vans pulling pop-ups, all sitting along the road with their hoods open. > > Greetings, > > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > least a dozen front wheel drive vans pulling pop-ups, all sitting along > the road with their hoods open. Sorry, should have mentioned. I drive a 2003 Trailblazer EXT with the towing package. oj >>> Greetings, >>> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > oj Equipped for electric trailer brakes? > > Greetings, > > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > http://www.adventurecamper.com/ Thanks for the links. We may take a look at that. Part of me says "What the hell, let's just do it". The other part says "It costs big bucks, plus storage, plus rental, plus maintenance, plus site fees." I'd actually pay less staying at nice hotels for the next 5 years. It there a payoff that justifies the cost in my mind? The family would like it. I'm just more 'sensible' that way. oj >>> Greetings, >>> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > oj We rented a small hard side the first time out. It snowed and temperature dropped to freezing. The tent and pop-ups did not do to well. Decided we wanted a hard side. Got a HI-LO and decided it was not big enough. Next one wasn't either. Then went to a 5th wheel. Then went to a bigger truck so we can get a bigger 5th wheel. I might have rented very nice large motor homes for what I have lost in trading trailers. Although it is nice having it parked at home ready to go at a moments notice. Then comes the work involved with all trailers. Making certain your batteries are in good shape. Gas Bottles full. Hauling water (you never have enough). Dumping waste. Good camping sites require reservations months ahead. We were a little late and in March the good weekend sites for July were gone. Check the ads. You even see "used one time" type for good prices. > I[s] there a payoff that justifies the cost in my mind? It's hard to say what goes on in your mind. [ducking] :) For the number of nights I have spent camping, I would probably have saved a LOT of money had I used motels and ate at restaurants. But, there's more to camping - and LIFE - than just the bottom line. I can step out of my "home on wheels" into a pristine wilderness with a moose grazing a hundred yards away. I have risen in the morning to absolute stillness - dead quiet. There was two inches of snow on the canvas, a handful of deer grazing in a nearby campsite, and we were the ONLY ones there. I was awed by the imposing magnificence of Devil's Tower within hiking distance. <http://www.nps.gov/deto/> You just can't compare that to a stay at a motel. It's two, VERY different things. BTW - camping/RVing is a LOT of work. At least, it is more work than staying at a motel and eating at restaurants. That, and the cost of RVing, are the price we pay for the unique experience. I love it.  Signature:) JR >> I[s] there a payoff that justifies the cost in my mind? > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > at a motel and eating at restaurants. That, and the cost of RVing, are the > price we pay for the unique experience. I love it. Agree. And in Colorado with it's scarcity of lakes it is almost impossible to get near one except in a National Forest or State Campground. However, the absolute stillness is not always the case. Each morning at Steamboat Springs State Park we were awakened quite early with the screeching of a family of Sand Cranes. Or perhaps what happened at another campground when a herd of Elk came tromping through just after daybreak. >It's hard to say what goes on in your mind. [ducking] :) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >at a motel and eating at restaurants. That, and the cost of RVing, are the >price we pay for the unique experience. I love it. We sat down in May and planned out some of our RV trips and made reservations through Labor Day. I know that we wouldn't have done that if we were motel folks. In the past we have talked about motel trips--but nothing ever comes of them. So if we were just doing those, we would end up staying at home most of the time. With the trailer, we know we want to use it--so we book ourselves up with trips. We like to just simply get away from home--and the trailer does a nice job of making us do just that. RVing--Costs lots of money Getting away from the routine--priceless Mark "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't" > RVing--Costs lots of money > Getting away from the routine--priceless RV'ing doesn't save any money over motels. I burn twice the gas getting there when towing and RV spots are often more than a motel lately. But I still enjoy it more. It's nice to sit outside my trailer, have a nice meal and just relax. >> RVing--Costs lots of money >> Getting away from the routine--priceless [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > still enjoy it more. It's nice to sit outside my trailer, have a nice > meal and just relax. Just a note to the OP on increased gas costs when towing. My personal data with my Sienna towing a Coachmen Clipper popup (mid-size) is my mileage changes from a normal 22 MPG down to 19 MPG (verified this last week going from NJ to Burlington VT to NY and back). I usually top out at about 70 MPH on the long trips. The weight, aerodynamics of the trailer and the tire type all will factor into this, along with driving style. Curiosity makes me ask the group - what is the difference in MPG towing versus not towing? >Curiosity makes me ask the group - what is the difference in MPG towing >versus not towing? When I had my popup, there was virtually no difference in gas mileage towing vs. normal driving. Maybe 1-2 mpg at most. The TT I now have puts about a 15-20% dent in the mileage numbers. I attribute that to the wind resistance of the big box behind me. Mark 2002 Isuzu Trooper towing 18' Prowler Lite travel trailer...18-19 not towing, 9-12 towing (all highway numbers). I'm curious too what folks are getting with pop-ups...I can certainly see the pop-up advantage of lowered wind resistance. The title to our 83 TT says it weighs around 2400lbs empty...less than a lot of pop-ups I've heard talked about here, so I'm sure wind resistance is hurting it a good bit. Wesley > Curiosity makes me ask the group - what is the difference in MPG towing > versus not towing? > MPG towing versus not towing? 8 towing 11 solo Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > Curiosity makes me ask the group - what is the difference in MPG towing > versus not towing? 2005 Tacoma, 4cyl, 5-speed, 60 mph, 200 pounds in the bed, 600 pounds in the extended cab(includes us), towing a 2005 Fleetwood Colonial, weighing 2100 pounds loaded, for 400 miles, 300 flat and 100 medium hills. 27 mpg solo 24 mpg towing Rictor Ridgecrest, CA PS anybody know how to patch several 1/8 inch holes in the top of my vinyl bed end? > Curiosity makes me ask the group - what is the difference in MPG towing > versus not towing? That would be the difference in gas mileage whether or not a trailer is connected to your vehicle, but that's not important right now. :) (Stolen/adapted from the movie Airplane!) The Durango gets 15-16 without the camper, 12-13 with. SignatureKarl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance > Curiosity makes me ask the group - what is the difference in MPG towing > versus not towing? 03 Tacoma 4WD with an automatic, I get about 20 mpg overall without the trailer, and about 17 with the 1600lb trailer (and fully loaded). I thought I'd do a lot worse, so this was a pleasant surprise. -Rob >I burn twice the gas getting >there when towing and RV spots are often more than a motel lately. But >I still enjoy it more. It's nice to sit outside my trailer, have a nice >meal and just relax. Twice as much gas? I take about a 2-4 mpg hit when towing (13 mpg vs. 9 mpg). I stayed in Las Vegas at the Oasis RV Resort for $42.00 per night. Any decent hotel there in Vegas is going to cost a lot more than that. Mark "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't" > >I burn twice the gas getting > >there when towing and RV spots are often more than a motel lately. But [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Mark > "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't" Geez, 9mpg? Hope you aren't driving too far. That just sounds wasteful. Rats, another argument against this... oj >Geez, 9mpg? Hope you aren't driving too far. That just sounds >wasteful. Rats, another argument against this... > >oj Wasteful as compared to what? If you enter into RVing, fuel is just one of the items that is factored in to the total cost of this hobby. We tow with a Chevrolet Suburban 2500. My trailer cannot be towed by a Toyota Prius, so I had to get the proper vehicle to do the job. When we aren't towing, we are hauling members of my daughter's basketball team to tournaments and practices. My daily commute is 32 miles each way. But I take the train, so I use very little gasoline in my vehicle. I've been doing this for over 11 years, so I have saved literally 10,000+ gallons of gas over that time. So I figure using a couple of tanks of gas to go RVing isn't wasteful. You are free to disagree, of course. Mark "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't" > >Geez, 9mpg? Hope you aren't driving too far. That just sounds > >wasteful. Rats, another argument against this... > > > >oj > > > Wasteful as compared to what? Just in the context of Peak Oil and shortages, and prices and such. > If you enter into RVing, fuel is just one of the items that is factored in to > the total cost of this hobby. We tow with a Chevrolet Suburban 2500. My trailer [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > little gasoline in my vehicle. I've been doing this for over 11 years, so I have > saved literally 10,000+ gallons of gas over that time. Nice work. We should all do so well. Thanks. oj > So I figure using a couple of tanks of gas to go RVing isn't wasteful. > > You are free to disagree, of course. > > Mark > "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't" >> RVing--Costs lots of money >> Getting away from the routine--priceless [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lately. But I still enjoy it more. It's nice to sit outside my > trailer, have a nice meal and just relax. I just got back from camping for 5 nights at $14/day and my truck drops from about 18 mpg to 14 mpg when towing my Fleetwood Niagara. The extra gas doesn't amount to much. It will still take a long time to make up for the $15,000 purchase price including tax. It isn't about the money, but rather about having my own place to stay in with my dog. Purchase for a short term would be a loss. Considering your plans for minimal use , I don't think you'd feel justified in spending the money. I'd say rent rather than buy, but the unit you rent may be in disappointing condition or inadequately equipped. I have no experience in that regard. SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL > Thanks for the links. We may take a look at that. Part of me says > "What the hell, let's just do it". The other part says "It costs big [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > oj Someone else mentioned renting a pop-up. I would be inclined to suggest the same...at least for a weekend trip or 2 to make sure that's what you really want to do. $13,500 is a lot of money to spend if you decide you hate it after the first week or so you use it...you're bound to lose a good bit trying to re-sell it, even if it's 3 months old. If you can afford it and aren't up to doing maintenance on your own, then getting a new or barely used unit would probably be the way to go...older campers (pop-up, airstream, or otherwise) tend to have greater potential for problems. Good luck! Wesley > Greetings, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > We are looking at this Rockwood from the same dealer as the Airstream: http://www.forestriverinc.com/nd/floorplanview.asp?name=1&cat=Rhino%20High%20Wal l%20Campers&page=rktc&loc=rockwoodhiwall&direc=tentcampers/rockwood/floorplans > Actually, we looked at several, but I liked this one the best. Price > is around $13,500. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > oj I'd go with the rental to see if you like it. I borrowed a pop-up from a friend for a long weekend and ended up buying it for $3,000 from her a month later. In my case, I've paid for the trailer in hotel savings at Disneyworld and a two week trip to the Black Hills. > Someone else mentioned renting a pop-up. I would be inclined to suggest the > same...at least for a weekend trip or 2 to make sure that's what you really [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > > oj I agree with the rental thoughts, or borrowing before spending that much money on a concept that one has not tried before. I also would suggest that you go to places that have pop-ups in use (places such as campsites or festivals) and talk to the people and check out their rigs. Folks can get pretty chatty about their stuff, so if you ask nice-like you can get a ton of information and demonstration for free. Tomes > I'd go with the rental to see if you like it. I borrowed a pop-up from > a friend for a long weekend and ended up buying it for $3,000 from her [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >> > >> > oj >I agree with the rental thoughts, or borrowing before spending that much >money on a concept that one has not tried before. I also would suggest that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >of information and demonstration for free. >Tomes This post is good advice. We spent about $6,500 on a brand new Starcraft popup in 1999. Pretty basic unit, but it was a big leap from tent camping. We figured that we would give it 2 years to see how much we liked it and how many times we used it. If we didn't use it enough, we would sell it and probably take a $2,000 loss. Turns out we love RVing! We mainly camped from April to September/October. When we decided that we wanted to extend our camping season, we bought our current trailer. After 5 years of use, we still got $3900 for the popup, so we figured we got our money's worth out of it. But RVing is not for everyone. I store my trailer in a RV yard. There are dozens of units there with years of dust on them. Spending a lot of $$ on a RV and then not using it is REALLY a waste of money! Mark 2004 Homestead Settler 255RS 1999 Chevrolet Suburban 2500 > Greetings, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > oj Well, we decided to go ahead and get the pop-up. I figure I only live once, and I might as well give everything I do my best shot. We got the Rockwood HW256G (?). $13,500, including brake hookup and sway bar. Aside from our week vacation coming up, we've also got one weekend for the next three months planned. A little cash lost to please the family and try something new, is worth it, so thanks for all your opinions. oj > Well, we decided to go ahead and get the pop-up. I figure I only live > once, and I might as well give everything I do my best shot. We got > the Rockwood HW256G (?). $13,500, including brake hookup and sway bar. > Aside from our week vacation coming up, we've also got one weekend for > the next three months planned. A little cash lost to please the family > and try something new, is worth it, so thanks for all your opinions. Of course, a follow-up TRIP REPORT is in order. Congratulations, good luck and have fun! Signature:) JR Since you made the decision and bought it, don't get buyer's remorse. Get as much use out of it as you can. Beware that your first few trips may be disappointing, if your expectations are unreasonably high. It takes a trip or three to figure out how to do and where to put everything. Camping in a pop-up is work. Experience makes it easier but doesn't eliminate it. SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL > Well, we decided to go ahead and get the pop-up. I figure I only live > once, and I might as well give everything I do my best shot. We got > the Rockwood HW256G (?). $13,500, including brake hookup and sway bar. > Aside from our week vacation coming up, we've also got one weekend for > the next three months planned. A little cash lost to please the family > and try something new, is worth it, so thanks for all your opinions. > Since you made the decision and bought it, don't get buyer's remorse. > Get as much use out of it as you can. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > figure out how to do and where to put everything. Camping in a pop-up > is work. Experience makes it easier but doesn't eliminate it. My first trip last year went off without any problems at all. I have not encountered any problems because I read the RV newsgroups for over a year before buying my pop-up. I knew what I needed in order to not have any problems. I'm glad you had fun but not all new owners are as well-prepared, nor are their expectations realistic. SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL > My first trip last year went off without any problems at all. > I have not encountered any problems because I read the RV > newsgroups for over a year before buying my pop-up. I knew > what I needed in order to not have any problems. > I'm glad you had fun but not all new owners are as well-prepared, nor are > their expectations realistic. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > newsgroups for over a year before buying my pop-up. I knew > > what I needed in order to not have any problems. >From the RV groups I've been reading, my expectations are (in this order): 1. put up popup 2. drink beer So I should be good :). oj > From the RV groups I've been reading, my expectations are (in this > order): [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > oj Well, we had our trip, and while we did have to put it up in the rain, I did drink beer afterwards. So my expectations were realized. And we got 12.5-13 MPG through Kansas and Colorado in our Trailblazer with the beast. Although we did blow a tire on the way back. Thanks for the advice! oj > Well, we decided to go ahead and get the pop-up. I figure I only live > once, and I might as well give everything I do my best shot. We got > the Rockwood HW256G (?). $13,500, including brake hookup and sway bar. > Aside from our week vacation coming up, we've also got one weekend for > the next three months planned. A little cash lost to please the family > and try something new, is worth it, so thanks for all your opinions. I would suggest that you do what many first timers do, and set it up and "camp" in your driveway (assuming you can) the first time. You may also want to see if there is a place you can camp within say a half an hours drive from home. It will take a few times out before you have it the way you and the wife want and need it in the way of "stuff", and camping close to home the first time or two is a good plan. We've had a pop-up for 6-7 years now, and Angela still doesn't have everything set up the way she wants - course I think she gets a kick out of "playing house" in it when we camp, and trying new ideas. SignatureKarl & Angela `02 Durango `05 Fleetwood Allegiance |
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