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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2007

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Rockwood 1910 Freedom - Bike Rack

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orourke.darren@gmail.com - 16 Jul 2007 20:48 GMT
<originally posted on alt.rv>

Forgive me if this question has been asked to death... (and please
feel free to point me to any archive areas to research previous
responses as necessary)...

My wife and I recently purchased a new Rockwood travel trailer
(Model#: 1910 Freedom) that we tow behind a 2006 Mazda MPV.

We've just enjoyed our first family weekend away in it, and the whole
experience was fantastic, but I'd love to be able to take our family's
bikes along on the next adventure!

I've seen a number of trailers with different types of bike racks
fitted to the top of the trailer, and
would like to add something similar to our own trailer (4 bikes in
total - 2 adult, one kids (20" rims) and one toddler bike (12" rims +
training wheels!).

I'd really welcome any advise that anyone may be able to offer re:
sourcing of such a rack (we live in Southern Ontario, therefore
ideally Canadian-based vendors/retailers would be preferred), and also
pro's/con's to consider regarding trailer handling or compromised
structural integrity through use of these devices (if general
conscensus suggests "bikes on top of trailer = bad idea", then please
feel free to suggest possible alternatives?).

Your suggestions & recommendations will be very much appreciated.

Cheers!
Jim Redelfs - 16 Jul 2007 23:52 GMT
> <originally posted on alt.rv>
> My wife and I recently purchased a new Rockwood travel trailer
> (Model#: 1910 Freedom) that we tow behind a 2006 Mazda MPV.

At the risk of being too picky, you purchased a FOLDING trailer, not a travel
trailer.  They are also referred to as "popup" and "folddown".

> I've seen a number of trailers with different types of bike racks
> fitted to the top of the trailer

I mounted a Yakima rack with five GT bike mounts to the top of our (bought
new) 1987 Starcraft Galaxy popup.  It was a GREAT way to transport bikes and
had virtually no effect on towing that I recall.

The installation, however, caused water to leak through the roof.  After 2-3
years, and water damage, I removed the rack and installed a rubber roof to
stop the leak.

I know that many popup campers are equipped with bike racks on top.  How they
are installed probably determines the potential for roof damage.  Obviously,
my DIY installation on my camper was not done properly since the roof
subsequently leaked.

If your camper is NEW, I highly recommend that you get a Rockwood dealer to
install a Rockwood-approved rack along with a warranty.

After removing the rack from our camper roof, we installed it (easily
removable between outings) on the station wagon luggage rack.  This worked
VERY well although not quite as convenient as atop the comparatively lower
camper roof.  Good luck!
Signature

           :)
JR

orourke.darren@gmail.com - 17 Jul 2007 02:53 GMT
> In article <1184615333.386653.280...@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> At the risk of being too picky, you purchased a FOLDING trailer, not a travel
> trailer.  They are also referred to as "popup" and "folddown".

<Blush> Can you tell that we're new to the whole camping scene?!?
Amateur mistake. Apologies to all on this board that I mortally
offended through my own ignorance!

> > I've seen a number of trailers with different types of bike racks
> > fitted to the top of the trailer
>
> I mounted a Yakima rack with five GT bike mounts to the top of our (bought
> new) 1987 Starcraft Galaxy popup.  It was a GREAT way to transport bikes and
> had virtually no effect on towing that I recall.

Was the rack bolted *through* the roof then? I kind of assumed that
the bars would be more specialised, possibly reaching across the span
of the roof, locking (bolting?) through the sides? (see above if my
answer causes sighes/raised eyebrows from 'the wizened' here ;)

> The installation, however, caused water to leak through the roof.  After 2-3
> years, and water damage, I removed the rack and installed a rubber roof to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> If your camper is NEW, I highly recommend that you get a Rockwood dealer to
> install a Rockwood-approved rack along with a warranty.

Wise words, however we preferred the design/layout of this particular
trailer vs. the ability of the dealer we were working with (once they
found out that we weren't looking at the $60K 5th wheels, their
attitudes deteriorated somewhat - we felt akin to a proverbial
'skitter round the campfire at that point!). Honestly? I'm reluctant
to go back to them for servicing/maintenance, let alone to pour
further $$'s into their personal pension plans through the purchase of
installed high-margin accessories...

> After removing the rack from our camper roof, we installed it (easily
> removable between outings) on the station wagon luggage rack.  This worked
> VERY well although not quite as convenient as atop the comparatively lower
> camper roof.  Good luck!

That's possibly the other alternative,that I'm keen to avoid for two
reasons - firstly the convenience reason you mention, secondly I'd
really prefer to add any mountings/weight to my $8K trailer vs. my
$33K 'suburban limousine' (it's NOT a minivan, OK?!? :)

>             :)
> JR

Thanks very much for your feedback, JR - much appreciated. Obviously
more homework needs to be conducted prior to enjoying feet-up free-
wheeling around the campsite and beyond...!

Cheers,
DOR
Jim Redelfs - 17 Jul 2007 13:31 GMT
>> At the risk of being too picky, you purchased a FOLDING trailer,
>> not a  travel trailer.

> <Blush> Can you tell that we're new to the whole camping scene?!?

The Subject you chose was a tip-off.  You certainly aren't the first here.  
This is usually the place first-timers post.  You are certainly welcome.

> Amateur mistake. Apologies to all on this board that I mortally
> offended through my own ignorance!

Mortally?  HA!   :)   This is usenet, my good man.  You'll have to do a WHOLE
LOT worse than that to offend, even in the slightest.

You originally posted to <news:alt.rv> and the lone reply you got directing
you to THIS newsgroup did not make it clear that you had a popup.  I can't
recall ever seeing bikes atop a travel trailer.  I thought your situation
might be a first.  I finally went to the Rockwood web site to verify that your
new rig was indeed a folddown before replying.

>> I mounted a Yakima rack with five GT bike mounts to the top of
>> our (bought new) 1987 Starcraft Galaxy popup.  It was a GREAT
>> way to transport bikes and had virtually no effect on towing
>> that I recall.

> Was the rack bolted *through* the roof then?

Yes.  "Through" bolts, the whole industrial bit.

> I kind of assumed that the bars would be more specialised, possibly
> reaching across the span of the roof, locking (bolting?) through
> the sides?

They were conventional Yakima rack mounts with "fake" rain gutters
through-bolted to the roof.  Side mounting would have been better.  However,
the width of the span (VERY wide) caused a LOT of up-and-down deflection in
the middle of the rack with the bikes "wagging" back-and-forth while underway.  
To mitigate this effect, I created and installed a couple of mid-span support
posts that rested on the roof.  It was not very elegant in appearance but it
was effective.  With the rack mounted to the SIDE of the roof, I WOULD try
such a thing again.

> (see above if my answer causes sighes/raised eyebrows from
> 'the wizened' here ;)

See my above reply to your earlier concern.  We LOVE the opportunity to talk
about popup camping, an occasionally rare occurrence given the annoying trolls
that to often pollute the "conversation".

>> If your camper is NEW, I highly recommend that you get a Rockwood
>> dealer to install a Rockwood-approved rack along with a warranty.

> Wise words, however we preferred the design/layout of this particular
> trailer vs. the ability of the dealer we were working with (once they
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> further $$'s into their personal pension plans through the purchase of
> installed high-margin accessories...

That's too bad, especially if the dealership is conveniently located.  I often
suggest that a conveniently located, reputable dealership is MORE important
than the model of RV.  Hopefully you can find a better service department
located nearby.  During the camping season, it is often difficult to get
warranty work done in a timely fashion from the SELLING dealership.  Trying to
get factory-authorized, warranty work done from a dealership that did NOT sell
the rig originally may well be impossible during the camping season.

When you camp, take along a notebook in which you can record notes and list
those items that need warranty work/repair.  You WILL have such issues.

>> After removing the rack from our camper roof, we installed it (easily
>> removable between outings) on the station wagon luggage rack.  This
>> worked VERY well although not quite as convenient as atop the
>> comparatively lower camper roof.

> That's possibly the other alternative,that I'm keen to avoid for two
> reasons - firstly the convenience reason you mention, secondly I'd
> really prefer to add any mountings/weight to my $8K trailer vs. my
> $33K 'suburban limousine' (it's NOT a minivan, OK?!? :)

Hehehehehe!  You paid CLOSE to the price of a Suburban, so I won't argue!

> Thanks very much for your feedback, JR - much appreciated. Obviously
> more homework needs to be conducted prior to enjoying feet-up free-
> wheeling around the campsite and beyond...!

Set-up and camp in your driveway for a couple of nights.  This will allow you
the convenience of exploring the new trailer without being in the middle of
nowhere or miles away from tools and telephone.  Have fun!

I just decided to post a 1989 photo of our popup with bikes mounted.  The girl
in the photo is now an M.D.  Enjoy!

<http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1006/836458865_daa4edb663_b.jpg>
Signature

           :)
JR

Chris Cowles - 18 Jul 2007 02:20 GMT
> I can't recall ever seeing bikes atop a travel trailer.

Some idiot might try it, and it might work, but only until the first
overhang.
Signature

Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL

Tomes - 17 Jul 2007 04:10 GMT
<orourke.darren@gmail.com> om...
> Forgive me if this question has been asked to death... (and please
> feel free to point me to any archive areas to research previous
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Cheers!

Hi there.  We have thought about this and right now we are doing a
different thing.  We have a Thule rear-hatch mounted bike carrier that we
clip onto our Sienna's way-back door.  Even with the 3 bikes on it (we
have actually fit 4 in a pinch with some extra lashing) it did not
interfere with the trailer at all.  We just need to be sure that we have
everything loaded in the back before we load on the bikes; one can open
it, but I can feel the pain of the hinges and my arms too.  This works OK
for us.  Almost all of the weight of the bikes sits on the rear bumper.

Likely the main reason (other than putting out more cash for another
accessory when this one is working) that I have not mounted them on the
popup roof is the fear of creating a leak.  When I researched this out
last year, I found one that strapped all the way around the popup.  Try to
find that one and see what you think.  I remember it being pricey though.
Google for bike carrier to see options.

Another thought I had was to weld a hitch mount onto the rear of the popup
and use a hitch mount carrier back there.  Then I stopped thinking about
that idea.
Hope this might help and let us know what you do, why and how it works
out.
Tomes
Jim Redelfs - 17 Jul 2007 12:59 GMT
Lining 'em up and shooin' 'em down...   <big grin>

> I found one that strapped all the way around the popup.

Our first bike rack was of this "stripe", I presume.  It was distributed by
Starcraft and was an abomination created by a UNqualified blacksmith on drugs.  
:(

The straps never adequately secured the loaded mass.  A sudden stop caused the
entire apparatus, including mounted bikes, to slide forward along the top of
the camper.  It once even made it partially off the front of the roof.  This
was despite tightening the straps as much as I could.

> Google for bike carrier to see options.

Good advice.  I can't see the rack I describe being very expensive or enjoying
much commercial success.

> Another thought I had was to weld a hitch mount onto the rear of the popup
> and use a hitch mount carrier back there.  Then I stopped thinking about
> that idea.

I have seen a few popups on the road with bikes mounted this way.  I do NOT
recall there being much "action" back there - a good thing.  Others here, over
the years, have reported a detrimental effect on towing
handling/characteristics with such a lashup.  Many popups do not have a rear
bumper of sufficient mass or strength to attach such a mount.

Transporting bikes (et al) seems to be the "holy grail" of popup camping.
Signature

           :)
JR

Tomes - 18 Jul 2007 06:43 GMT
"Jim Redelfs" ...
> Lining 'em up and shooin' 'em down...   <big grin>
> "Tomes" :
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> Transporting bikes (et al) seems to be the "holy grail" of popup
> camping.

Yep, the flimziness of the back bumper stuff is what made me stop thinking
about it.  It would indeed put a lot of weight hanging off of the way
back, so I would think that it would contribute to handling problems.
Mounting the bikes on my hatchback carrier does weigh down the Sienna
noticeably, so that is a lot of mass.
Tomes
rigger - 17 Aug 2007 10:47 GMT
> Transporting bikes (et al) seems to be the "holy grail" of popup camping.

[*de-cloak*]

I forget where I saw this (maybe a local hitch shop?), but I've just recently
seen a 2" receiver adaptor that might be of interest on this topic...

About 8"-10" long, designed for class III/IV receiver hitches. A single male
insert with two vertically-stacked 2" female recepticals on the other end;
pop it into your tow vehicle's  hitch receiver, pop your ball/whatever into
the lower of the pair of receiver holes, pop your hitch-mounted bike rack
into the upper one.

Might work, might not. Worth pondering, at any rate...

-Dave

[*cloak*]
Signature

rigger-at-TDS-dot-net
IATSE#274   DoD#2117   ACGwB#5   NGI#666   BMoZ#[classified]

tobe - 17 Aug 2007 20:38 GMT
> I forget where I saw this (maybe a local hitch shop?), but I've just recently
> seen a 2" receiver adaptor that might be of interest on this topic...
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Might work, might not. Worth pondering, at any rate...

As previously noted herein,m those hitch "adapters" decrease the
allowable tow load by up to 50%.
Chuck James - 28 Jul 2007 00:01 GMT
Be careful adding much weight to the rear "bumper" of a Pop-Up.  I bought a
new Rockwood Premier last year and added a wooden box for carrying ice
Chests.  (One 52 quart and One 30 quart cooler)  When going to Colorado this
year I noticed it appeared to be sagging.  Apparently going over the VERY
bumpy road (I-25) at 75 mph put a lot of strain on it, and the welds on the
bumper started breaking where it was attached to the frame.  Granted it was
just a lightweight C-Chanel "butt welded" to the frame, but if I keep the
box on the bumper, I will have to add some kind of support from the frame
through the bumper.

> <orourke.darren@gmail.com> om...
>> Forgive me if this question has been asked to death... (and please
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> out.
> Tomes
Tomes - 31 Jul 2007 03:34 GMT
Exactly why I stopped thinking about it.
Tomes

> Be careful adding much weight to the rear "bumper" of a Pop-Up.  I
> bought a new Rockwood Premier last year and added a wooden box for
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>> out.
>> Tomes
tobe - 17 Jul 2007 15:32 GMT
I would check out hitch-mount bike racks.  The bikes are then between
the car and the camper.  The good ones clamp OVER the hitch/ball mount,
without extending the shaft, and still allow for towing.  An example
which holds three bikes is at:

http://www.etrailer.com/pc-BRT~V91150.htm

I would not get a hitch rack which extends the shaft of the hitch (often
using a 'hitch adapter').  That decreases the weight the hitch can
carry, and changes the towing characteristics of the trailer (perhaps
more sway?).

This type avoids problems attaching the rack to the wide roof of the pop-up.

HTH

> I've seen a number of trailers with different types of bike racks
> fitted to the top of the trailer, and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> conscensus suggests "bikes on top of trailer = bad idea", then please
> feel free to suggest possible alternatives?).
Tomes - 18 Jul 2007 06:39 GMT
"tobe" ...
>I would check out hitch-mount bike racks.  The bikes are then between the
>car and the camper.  The good ones clamp OVER the hitch/ball mount,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> This type avoids problems attaching the rack to the wide roof of the
> pop-up.

I just read yesterday that those hitch extenders decrease the hitch
capacity by about 50%.  Yow.
Tomes
orourke.darren@gmail.com - 18 Jul 2007 21:56 GMT
Thanks to all for your input/advice.

I just came across the following rack via www.popupportal.com, and it
certainly looks very promising - does anybody have any experience
(good and/or bad) with this particular product?

http://www.sixnall.com/

Cheers!
DOR
Jim Redelfs - 19 Jul 2007 03:53 GMT
> Thanks to all for your input/advice.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://www.sixnall.com/

This appears almost identical to the strap-on abomination that I used on my
popup for its first, two seasons.  I wouldn't give ten cents for it.  Sorry.
Signature

              :\
JR

Zeppo - 19 Jul 2007 16:58 GMT
> Thanks to all for your input/advice.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Cheers!
> DOR

I actually own one of these (or an earlier version). I used it with my '87
Coleman Chesapeake for 4 annual trips to Chincoteague Island over. It's one
place it's really great to have bikes along on a camping trip.

It actually worked quite well for me as far as stability and wind resistance
went. I strapped the rack to the corners of the pop-up frame (in an 'X'
pattern) instead of straight across the top. This made it resistant to
sliding. We haven't gone back to Chincoteague in a few years now and my
pop-up roof has been having some issues so I'm not sure I'll try putting
bikes on the roof it again until I have them resolved or have a new pop-up.

Regards,
Jon
Tomes - 20 Jul 2007 04:35 GMT
"Zeppo" ...
> <orourke.darren@gmail.com> ...
>> Thanks to all for your input/advice.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Regards,
> Jon

So you wanna sell it or just have it keep on taking up valuable space?
;-)
Tomes
Zeppo - 23 Jul 2007 15:47 GMT
> "Zeppo" ...
>> <orourke.darren@gmail.com> ...
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> ;-)
> Tomes

Hmmm, let me think about that for a bit. I'll let you know.

Jon
Tomes - 24 Jul 2007 03:26 GMT
"Zeppo" ...
> "Tomes" ...
>> "Zeppo" ...
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Jon

OK, cool.  By the way I am in NJ.  Are you anywhere close to that?
Tomes
Zeppo - 24 Jul 2007 19:08 GMT
> "Zeppo" ...
>> "Tomes" ...
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> OK, cool.  By the way I am in NJ.  Are you anywhere close to that?
> Tomes

I'm just out side of Philly.

Jon
Tomes - 24 Jul 2007 21:55 GMT
"Zeppo" ...
> "Tomes" ...
>> "Zeppo" ...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> I'm just out side of Philly.
> Jon
OK, if you wish to do anything about it, I am here.
=-)
Tomes
Zeppo - 31 Jul 2007 15:00 GMT
> "Zeppo" ...
>> "Tomes" ...
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> =-)
> Tomes

Tomes,
Decided to hold on to it until the end of the season at least. It looks like
I'll be getting a different unit by next sprint and I want to hold on to it
al least until then.

Jon
Tomes - 01 Aug 2007 13:42 GMT
"Zeppo" ...
> "Tomes" ...
>> "Zeppo" ...
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> on to it al least until then.
> Jon
OK Jon.  I will just keep on using the hatchback carrier.  If you want to
find me after the season, ping me here.
Tomes
Toad - 08 Aug 2007 02:01 GMT
On Jul 16, 2:48 pm, orourke.dar...@gmail.com wrote:
> <originally posted on alt.rv>
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Cheers!

Here's a real cheap but effective plan that has worked for me for
several years, and will accomodate six or seven bikes.  I cut two
2X4's as long as the width of the camper, and painted them to match. I
then measured the distance between the axle bolts on one bike, and
bored two holes about one inch deep and one inch in diameter in one of
the 2X4's the same distance apart as the axles, and equidistant from
the ends of one of the boards.  I screwed this board onto the top of
the camper about 6 inches from the back.  Take one of the pedals off
the bike, and loosen up the handlebar centerbolt and rotate the
handlebars 90 degrees.  Set the bike flat on top of the camper, on the
board, with the axle bolts in the holes you bored.  Place the other
2X4 about 12 inches or so in front of the rear one, in a location that
will support the top section of the bike, and screw it into place
(place the screws throught the trim, into the side panels of the top,
adding a little caulk to the bottom of the board where the screws come
through). Put a few screw hooks into the 2X4's in appropriate
locations, pile a few more bikes on top of the first one,(with the
handlebars rotated) and secure the whole pile with bungee cords hooked
onto the screw hooks. Then hang a 3-bike rack off the rear door of
your tow vehicle (if it's a van or SUV), and you're good to go!  I've
never had any towing or leaking problems with this setup, and you can
use this "Red-Neck Luggage Rack" for other things, if you won't be
carrying this many bikes. You can lash 2 or 3 footlockers onto it, for
instance, or several coolers, if you don't space the boards too far
apart.  It takes about 30 minutes to unload the bikes, replace the one
pedal (don't forget to take the pedal and the wrench!), and straighten
out the handlebars, then everyone has a ride!  I also made a support
column shaped like a side-ways H to place inside the camper between
the floor and roof while collapsed, as I reasoned that roof sag was
likely to be caused by the weight of the AC unit and the bikes
bouncing up and down while going down the road, and the AC weight when
the camper is stored, and not by anything that happens when the camper
is popped up.  So, this column supports the roof 90% or so of the
camper's life, and there is still no sag after 11 years. If you decide
later on that you don't need the rack, there are only 8 small screw
holes to fill with silicone.
I hope this lengthy saga helps, and happy camping!
Byron Wood
 
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