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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / October 200405 Ford and overweight
The below is a post from one of the Ford truck forums. It appears that you can be overweight just by the GVWR ratings and not by the actual weight. It's a long thread and I haven't seen any results to know if the ticket is valid. Don't know if it applies to 5er's/TTs or not. http://www.fordtrucks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297338 "I bought a new 05 F350 King Ranch crew cab dually to replace our 95 F350 2 weeks ago. The dealer registered it as a class 8 vehicle (13,000 GVW) as the door jamb plate on the truck indicated. I hooked it up to my 14,000 GVW gooseneck trailer and was pulled over by the PA DOT and was ticketed for the following: No CDL license, no log book, no fuel tax stickers, improper registration, no warning triangles, no fire extinguisher, no medical card and overweight. (truck and trailer combined weighed 21,000 LB.) I was not allowed to drive my truck any further. We had to have a CDL driver come and pick up our truck and trailer and drive it back to our farm. The ticket is $3,400.00. The officer stated that if the rated weight of the truck and trailer combined is over 26000 lb., CDL and commercial vehicle requirements are in effect. My old dually was 11000 GVW and I never had a problem. With the new truck the combination weight is 27,000 GVW." mike in montana snipped > The ticket is $3,400.00. The officer stated that if the rated weight of the > truck and trailer combined is over 26000 lb., CDL and commercial vehicle > requirements are in effect. My old dually was 11000 GVW and I never had a > problem. With the new truck the combination weight is 27,000 GVW." > > mike in montana Looks like he's screwed. I wonder if he can relicense the trailer for 13,000 lbs. to keep under the magic number? HD in CNY > Looks like he's screwed. I wonder if he can relicense the > trailer for 13,000 lbs. to keep under the magic number? > HD in CNY Probably, but then where would he be if they broke out the scales? There's also the not-so-minor issue of whether or not the State of Registration requires that the Title be carried - some states do and others don't. [Texas titles carry a recommendation that the Title be kept in a safe place and _not_ in the vehicle.] If not, how is the fuzz to know what's on the Title? Also, where would he be when (if) the fuzz looked at the stickers on his truck and his trailer and did a bit of simple math? The simple truth, here, is that we're looking at a situation where there are two different [and conflicting] standards: the manufacturers' ratings and the legal wording. About the only saving grace is that most states don't require RVs to be weighed like other vehicles. >From: "Montana Mike" test@hotmail.com >Date: 10/25/2004 9:42 AM Central Standard Time >The below is a post from one of the Ford truck forums. It appears that you >can be overweight just by the GVWR ratings and not by the actual weight. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >mike in montana Are you, your truck and trailer licensed in Montana? If so, are you legal in Montana? It is my understanding that you are legal in all 50 states if you are legal in the state where you reside and where your vehicles are registered. So it will depend on what your home state requirements are as long as you are non-commercial. Ron > >From: "Montana Mike" test@hotmail.com > >Date: 10/25/2004 9:42 AM Central Standard Time [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > it will depend on what your home state requirements are as long as you are > non-commercial. Okay, please realize I'm looking for information here. The other day my wife and I were driving down I-75. A truck pulling a 5th wheel passed by and I saw the 5th wheel had a trailer attached to it with something on it ( a motorcycle?). Double trailers like that are against the law in my state. But because it's legal in the state of residence of the owner, that makes it legal here? > Ron >From: "HeatMan" heatair@NOSPAM.yahoo.com >Date: 10/25/2004 3:27 PM Central Standard Time <snip> >Okay, please realize I'm looking for information here. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Double trailers like that are against the law in my state. But because it's >legal in the state of residence of the owner, that makes it legal here? I don't believe it works that way. The way I understand it, if you are licensed to drive a non-commercial vehicle in your state of residence, then you can use that license to drive that non-commercial vehicle in any other state. For instance, where I live 16 year olds can get a drivers license. A licensed 16 year old from here can legally drive in a state that requires people to be 17 to get a drivers license. Your example had to do with an illegal trailer combination for one state. My point is that non-commercial drivers license from one state is good in all other states for the same vehicle types unless the vehicle type is illegal without regard to license. Ron > >From: "HeatMan" heatair@NOSPAM.yahoo.com > >Date: 10/25/2004 3:27 PM Central Standard Time [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Ron Good Grief! A license to drive (driver's license) doesn't mean you can drive illegally. Driving illegally includes driving over the speed limit (set by the state, county, city) and numerous other laws such as right turn on red after a stop, (or a right turn on red after a stop not allowed), length of vehicle (may be a specific road), number of trailers, light placement, etc. Commercial rigs with 3 trailers are not allowed in some states and must stop and unhook one of the trailers. A driver's license doesn't license the vehicle and has nothing to do with any vehicle other than your license may restrict your driving to certain types of vehicles. This is no difficult, it comes right after learning the shapes of signs. I suggest you take a hard look at your driver's manual. >Okay, please realize I'm looking for information here. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >> Ron No Ron. Apples and Oranges. Most states have reciprocity agreements for driver's licenses that say if you are licensed to drive a particular combination in your home state, you can drive that combination in any state where the combination is legal. This same reciprocity agreement is the one that says if you get a ticket in another state, they may report it to your home state. For combinations of vehicles, however, if the combination is not legal in the state you are visiting, it won't matter what state your driver's license is from. Another way to look at it is to consider speed limits. An Arizona driver cannot drive 75 mph in Ohio where the speed limit is 55 just because the statewide speed limit in Arizona is 75. Greg > >Okay, please realize I'm looking for information here. > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > speed limit is 55 just because the statewide speed limit in Arizona is > 75. Correct, the same applies to DUI limits, motorcycle helmets, rig length, etc.  Signature-------------------------------------------------------- Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv >From: Greg Surratt glsurratt@verizon.net >Date: 10/25/2004 4:41 PM Central Standard Time [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Greg I agree with everything you said, but I didn't write the quote you attributed to me. Ron >I agree with everything you said, but I didn't write the quote you attributed >to me. > >Ron Sorry about that - grabbed your reply, cut you out except for your sig. Should have been replying to Heatman. Greg > Are you, your truck and trailer licensed in Montana? If so, are you legal in > Montana? It is my understanding that you are legal in all 50 states if you are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ron Yes, I am legally licensed in Montana and well under my GVWs and GCWRs - the poor guy in the article though is from PA. mike in montana >From: "Montana Mike" test@hotmail.com >Date: 10/25/2004 11:00 PM Central Standard Time >Message-id: ><ron48@aol.common> wrote in message >news:20041025115605.03855.00004642@mb-m19.aol.com... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >mike in montana Sorry, I thought you were the one ticketed. Ron > I hooked it up to my 14,000 GVW gooseneck trailer and was pulled over by the > PA DOT and was ticketed for the following: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > my truck any further. We had to have a CDL driver come and pick up our truck > and trailer and drive it back to our farm. I am puzzled by the CDL requirements. I didn't know any state had a CDL requirement for an RV unless it was for a driver delivering a new RV or is this not an RV? Anyone know if the trailer was an RV? Jim >> I hooked it up to my 14,000 GVW gooseneck trailer and was pulled over by the >> PA DOT and was ticketed for the following: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jim From the original post, it sounds as if it were a farm trailer, and a farm enterprise. No state requires a CDL for a RV. A CDL is for Commercial vehicles. Even if you are delivering RVs, most won't exceed 26,001 lbs. SignatureFrank Tabor >From the original post, it sounds as if it were a farm trailer, and a >farm enterprise. No state requires a CDL for a RV. A CDL is for >Commercial vehicles. Even if you are delivering RVs, most won't exceed >26,001 lbs. And states differ on the requirements for farm equipment and operators. In some states, a farmer can tote his own farm products as long as it is a legal load (not overweight or oversized) with his own farm equipment (not for hire) licensed as such without any special requirements. >>From the original post, it sounds as if it were a farm trailer, and a >>farm enterprise. No state requires a CDL for a RV. A CDL is for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >farm equipment (not for hire) licensed as such without any special >requirements. I think we aren't getting the full story. Something must have triggered the SP to have pulled him over to inspect him. And to say that he had to have a CDL driver move the vehicle means that it must have had some kind of business signs or other IDing it as not private. SignatureFrank Tabor >>>From the original post, it sounds as if it were a farm trailer, and a >>>farm enterprise. No state requires a CDL for a RV. A CDL is for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > that he had to have a CDL driver move the vehicle means that it must > have had some kind of business signs or other IDing it as not private. If you go back to the original post, you'll find that he was pulling a gooseneck trailer.... Not an RV. >>>>From the original post, it sounds as if it were a farm trailer, and a >>>>farm enterprise. No state requires a CDL for a RV. A CDL is for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Not an RV. Yes, I knew that. Some one else commented about and RV. I'd say he was pulling either a stock trailer or a lowboy, and had signs with his farm name on them. SignatureFrank Tabor <<..>> > If you go back to the original post, you'll find that he was pulling a > gooseneck trailer.... > > Not an RV. I actually got cited for being overweight (the rig... not me <g>) many years ago. I had a company truck- a 1 ton chevy cab and chassis with a 14' box, pulling my Airstream. Because the truck was "commercialish", I always stopped at weigh stations. Well, one asked to see my registration- which listed the (clearly labeled) "empty weight" at 4950 lbs, (even though the "gross weight" was 10K)- well, I went over the scales at 19,500 lbs (truck and trailer). I didn't have to worry about it (the companies problem), so I don't know how much they paid, and this was before the CDL, but my boss simply registered my truck for 25,900 lbs. FWIW.... SignatureChris Bryant http://bryantrv.com >I actually got cited for being overweight (the rig... not me <g>) many >years ago. I had a company truck- a 1 ton chevy cab and chassis with a 14' [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >FWIW.... That brings up the other issue not addressed. My dually is "registered" for a gross vehicle weight of 7500 lbs but the door plate rates it at 11,000 lbs. It was probably the first dually the salesman had ever sold and he didn't know any better. BTW, does California still have the provision for registering a pickup as a car as long as you don't use it as a pickup? Greg <<..>> > That brings up the other issue not addressed. My dually is "registered" > for a gross vehicle weight of 7500 lbs but the door plate rates it at > 11,000 lbs. It was probably the first dually the salesman had ever sold > and he didn't know any better. My 10K lb gvw dually is registered at 9,999- at the suggestion of the Tax & Tag people- saving me around $50/year. SignatureChris Bryant http://bryantrv.com > I think we aren't getting the full story. Something must have > triggered the SP to have pulled him over to inspect him. And to say > that he had to have a CDL driver move the vehicle means that it must > have had some kind of business signs or other IDing it as not private. I think you got it close. My bet is, he had that trailer loaded with something (hay, horses, cows, tractors) that made the total weight of the combination go over 26,000 pounds, or as you say, he was hauling commercially. You'll never know the full story is my guess! :-( Tom J > > I think we aren't getting the full story. Something must have > > triggered the SP to have pulled him over to inspect him. And to say [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Tom J You could go read the whole thread as the URL was posted. His actual weight as posted was 21k. mike in montsana > From the original post, it sounds as if it were a farm trailer, and a > farm enterprise. No state requires a CDL for a RV. A CDL is for > Commercial vehicles. Even if you are delivering RVs, most won't exceed > 26,001 lbs. If you are being paid to deliver RVs, that is commercial, and a CDL license is required - federal law. Tom J > If you are being paid to deliver RVs, that is commercial, and a CDL license is > required - federal law. Not only that but I talked to a couple that did deliveries and they also had to get permits in certain states. Private RV is no problem but the transporter may need permits because of the 102" width... and maybe other things. Jim >From: AJ alfieb@att.invalid.net >Date: 10/26/2004 8:20 AM Central Standard Time >> I hooked it up to my 14,000 GVW gooseneck trailer and was pulled over by >the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >a CDL requirement for an RV unless it was for a driver delivering a >new RV or is this not an RV? Anyone know if the trailer was an RV? I initially assumed he was pulling a RV, but it doesn't say so. It may have been a gooseneck box trailer or stock trailer. Ron >> I hooked it up to my 14,000 GVW gooseneck trailer and was pulled over by the >> PA DOT and was ticketed for the following: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jim Hi, Pennsylvania does not require a CDL license for any RV's. What they do require is that you have a Class A or B license (non commercial) if you tow a trailer over 10,000 lbs. GVWR, this includes 5th wheel and travel trailers, or if your vehicle has a GVWR of over 26,000 lbs. this includes Class A motor homes. A CDL is a commercial Class A or B license. You are only required to have a CDL if the vehicle/vehicle's are used for commercial purposes and meet the weight criteria set out for CDL license. In the above story apparently the truck and trailer were being used as a commercial vehicle. He said he had to have it towed back to his farm. He might have had his farms name on the truck. I know some who do this to get the tax breaks for the truck. Of course once you do this it's a commercial vehicle and if you exceed the weight limits you need to get a CDL license. Farmers in PA do get some breaks about driving their equipment but I don't know if it applies to something like this. Don't know how he could be cited for overweight unless the trooper got a portable scale to come out and weigh him. That's the only way to get a ticket for overweight that I know of. Don't know how he could be cited for improper registration either unless either vehicle wasn't registered or not registered for the right weight or in the wrong name. If he didn't have the registration with him they normally give you 5 days to produce it, you are suppose to have it with you in the vehicle. All the other stuff he could be cited for on the spot IF the vehicle was being used for commercial purposes. If it wasn't a commercial vehicle then the only thing he could still be cited for is not having the correct drivers license and I guess he could be made to leave the trailer since he didn't have the correct license to tow it. In either case he should have been able to drive the truck home without the trailer. Unless there was something wrong with the trucks registration and license in which case they *might* not want it moved until everything could be straightened out. But that's not very likely since they can check that stuff pretty quickly right on the spot anymore. Once the trailer is disconnected from the truck he would not need a CDL to drive it unless he didn't have a drivers license at all. All in all the story sounds like there is a lot being left out. If he didn't know about the commercial weight limits and CDL requirements and was using it as a commercial vehicle to save some tax bucks then it's his mistake and he got caught. If on the other hand it wasn't a commercial vehicle then he should be able to get most of the charges thrown out. Take care and Happy Campin... RichA "We Get To Soon Olde and To Late Smart" RE: Re: 05 Ford and overweight BY: "Tom J" <tomj_ga@despammed.com> >> From the original post, it sounds as if it were a farm trailer, and a >> farm enterprise. No state requires a CDL for a RV. A CDL is for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >required - federal law. >Tom J - There's a new one. Which federal law (in other words, what law so I can look it up.) - From what I have seen, the CDL laws vary state to state... not aware of a federal law regarding driver's licenses. At least here you don't need a CDL to deliver RVs. - - Origin: The Wild Wild West * 503-623-0185 RE: Re: 05 Ford and overweight BY: Frank Tabor <ftabor@nospamceva.net> >Class C Any vehicle that is not included in classes A or B that >carries hazardous materials or is designed to carry 16 or more >passengers, including the driver. >None of these will fit someone delivering RVs. - Exactly. Which is why I questioned the remark: - >>>If you are being paid to deliver RVs, that is commercial, and a CDL license >>>required - federal law. >>>Tom J >>- >>There's a new one. Which federal law (in other words, what law so I can look >>it up.) - I knew that the license wasn't required here. - I wanted to know what federal law required a CDL for hauling RVs. - >And if you look above, farmers hauling their own stuff are exempted >from CDL requirements. - Yep. Knew that too. - >So now, that makes the case of the driver in PA seem awful fishy. - Unless he was further from home, got a rookie officer who didn't know, or was otherwise doing something that *might* have appeared to be a citation. - >Cause as I said, CDL requirements are set by the FEDs as a minimum >requirement. - Minimum requirement. That means the individual states can, if they choose to, add on more requirements. One argument I have had with the state here (Oregon) is with the licensing of a vehicle. *ANY* vehicle over 8,000 gvw is required to be registered with a commercial plate. RVs are exempted. One question I have never gotten a -good- answer to is why all the 1-tons I see have standard plates on them. Technically, with a 10,000 GVW they should all have commercial or farm or... plates. Commercial use is not a requirement, nor is the lack of commercial use an exemption. - - Origin: The Wild Wild West * 503-623-0185 RE: Re: 05 Ford and overweight BY: "Tom J" <tomj_ga@despammed.com> >http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyprogs/cdl.htm >CDL regulations are federal regulations. There is the link. >The CDL license is issued by each state, but conforms to the FED REGS. >You are required by law to have a CDL license if you drive for hire >(commercial) >Tom J - Nope. You only need a CDL if you are driving a vehicle which requires a CDL. Driving for hire is not a requirement. - - Origin: The Wild Wild West * 503-623-0185 |
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