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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / March 2005

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Grade Percent Formula?

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Jim Redelfs - 08 Mar 2005 02:50 GMT
How is the percentage of grade determined for a roadway?

           :)
JR
R & A - 08 Mar 2005 03:32 GMT
> How is the percentage of grade determined for a roadway?
>
>            :)
> JR

   You can go with the elevation (in feet) for every 100 feet of linear
travel.  Example:  10' of elevation for 100' of travel = 10% grade.
Signature


Ram
KE7BRE
www.rvsafety.com

(Remove first 2 dots to reply)

Biggy Little - 09 Mar 2005 07:34 GMT
> How is the percentage of grade determined for a roadway?
>
>             :)
> JR
45% is 1/2 of straight down. Extrapolate.
HD in NY - 09 Mar 2005 14:17 GMT
> How is the percentage of grade determined for a roadway?
>
>             :)
> JR
<http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.3.html>
HD in FL
Jenny6833A - 11 Mar 2005 16:48 GMT
> <http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.3.html>

The last paragraph illustrates the ease of calculations in the metric
system.

Why do we continue with the mess we use?

:-)

Jenny
Jenny6833A - 11 Mar 2005 16:49 GMT
> <http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.3.html>

The last paragraph illustrates the ease of calculations in the metric
system.

Why do we continue with the mess we use?

:-)

Jenny
Jim Redelfs - 12 Mar 2005 11:54 GMT
> > <http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.3.html>
>
> The last paragraph illustrates the ease of calculations in the metric
> system.
>
> Why do we continue with the mess we use?

Uh, because we're too lazy?

We should have "broken clean" and made the conversion when the big push
happened years ago.

            <sigh>
JR
Mike Little - 21 Mar 2005 15:23 GMT
Grade is determined by calculation of the slope.  The formula is simple and
would be run/rise.  For example, if you measure a 10ft section of road,
using a level measure, and determine that the drop in the tape (or string or
whatever you use) from level back to the roadway is 1ft, you will get
10ft/1ft = .10 or 10%.  To ensure that you get a correct answer, be sure the
units of measurement are the same for both measurements (inches/inches, feet
/feet, etc.).

Mike.

> How is the percentage of grade determined for a roadway?
>
>            :)
> JR
Carl - 21 Mar 2005 16:54 GMT
> Grade is determined by calculation of the slope.  The formula is simple
> and would be run/rise.  For example, if you measure a 10ft section of
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>            :)
>> JR

Wrong.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/inclinedeclinegradecalc.html
Glenn - 21 Mar 2005 17:09 GMT
>> Grade is determined by calculation of the slope.  The formula is simple
>> and would be run/rise.  For example, if you measure a 10ft section of
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Wrong.
> http://www.csgnetwork.com/inclinedeclinegradecalc.html

Your calculator does exactly the same thing Mikes simple to understand
scenario of 1% for every 1/10 rise. Glenn
PaulT - 21 Mar 2005 18:14 GMT
>> Grade is determined by calculation of the slope.  The formula is simple
>> and would be run/rise.  For example, if you measure a 10ft section of
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Wrong.
> http://www.csgnetwork.com/inclinedeclinegradecalc.html

Both his and yours work out the same.  I had always heard you use a distance
of 100'.  So a 10' rise in elevation would calculate to a 10% grade.  Your
site uses a mile so a 528' rise would also calculate to a 10% grade.
Paul
Carl - 21 Mar 2005 19:04 GMT
>>> Grade is determined by calculation of the slope.  The formula is simple
>>> and would be run/rise.  For example, if you measure a 10ft section of
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> grade.
> Paul

Still wrong
Grade is rise/run
% Grade is (rise\run) * 100
A rise of 100 in a run of 100 is a 100% grade
Not 1%.
A rise of 2 in a run of 50 is a 1% grade.
Not 25%.
PaulT - 21 Mar 2005 19:34 GMT
>>>> Grade is determined by calculation of the slope.  The formula is simple
>>>> and would be run/rise.  For example, if you measure a 10ft section of
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> A rise of 2 in a run of 50 is a 1% grade.
> Not 25%.

Maybe I don't understand.  I went to the site you pointed out and put in
528.0' in one mile (5280') and got a "Grade Percent Change" of 10%.  Isn't
that the same as 1' in 10' or 10' in 100'?
Paul
Mark Jones - 22 Mar 2005 02:46 GMT
> A rise of 2 in a run of 50 is a 1% grade.
> Not 25%.
That would be a 4% grade.
Mark Jones - 22 Mar 2005 02:45 GMT
> Grade is determined by calculation of the slope.  The formula is simple and
> would be run/rise.  For example, if you measure a 10ft section of road,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> units of measurement are the same for both measurements (inches/inches, feet
> /feet, etc.).
You didn't do very good in math, did you? How exactly do
you divide 10 by 1 and end up with 0.1? You have the
formula backwards.
unk - 22 Mar 2005 16:47 GMT
>> Grade is determined by calculation of the slope.  The formula is simple
>and
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>you divide 10 by 1 and end up with 0.1? You have the
>formula backwards.

I have been following this thread without adding my $0.02 and have
concluded that public education is as bad as I have heard.  I have
seen more misinformation and erroneous statements in these 10-20 posts
than most any thread I have followed in recent times.

How can intelligent people make such basic arithmatic mistakes?

Sheeesh
Will Sill - 22 Mar 2005 18:33 GMT
I see where unk <roamer@k7no.com> contributed:

>I have been following this thread without adding my $0.02 and have
>concluded that public education is as bad as I have heard.  I have
>seen more misinformation and erroneous statements in these 10-20 posts
>than most any thread I have followed in recent times.
>
>How can intelligent people make such basic arithmatic mistakes?

Bad as the state of public education is, some answers were correct.
Grade IS correctly described as rise vs run - a 10% grade rises 10'
per hundred feet of travel.   By definition, a 100% grade is a 45
degree incline - NOT a vertical climb as many wrongly suppose.

Will Sill
The list of subjects I care about is shrinking steadily.
Items missing from that list include but are not limited to:
- The views of moronic and anti-American nut cases
- Terminally boring and/or thoughtless commentaries.
PaulT - 22 Mar 2005 18:44 GMT
>I see where unk <roamer@k7no.com> contributed:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> - The views of moronic and anti-American nut cases
> - Terminally boring and/or thoughtless commentaries.

Nice to be correct once in a while.  vbg
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 22 Mar 2005 20:30 GMT
>Bad as the state of public education is, some answers were correct.
>Grade IS correctly described as rise vs run - a 10% grade rises 10'
>per hundred feet of travel.   By definition, a 100% grade is a 45
>degree incline - NOT a vertical climb as many wrongly suppose.

Your definition, then, is the exception to the quoted mathematical
formula since by those standards, a 50% grade is a 50 degree incline,
unless that also calls for an exception.

Canoli
noone - 22 Mar 2005 21:54 GMT
> >Bad as the state of public education is, some answers were correct.
> >Grade IS correctly described as rise vs run - a 10% grade rises 10'
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Canoli

Richard,

Isn't it a little early in the day to have had such a long chat with Jack
Daniels?

Bob
WingNut - 22 Mar 2005 22:08 GMT
> Will Sill <wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> degree incline,
> unless that also calls for an exception.

Will's statement is correct, but I think that the people who
print up the road signs in different jurisdictions don't
always follow that.  I have seen some grades in California
that said 10% grade, and they were very hairy to negotiate
in my MH.   Fortunately, they were usually short run
distances.

Canoli is confusing degrees with grade.  In mathematics (not
mathamatics as someone posted) what has been refeered to as
grade is called slope.  For a 45 degree incline, the slope
would be tangent(45 degrees) which is 1, or 100% of you use
the grade percentage notation.  If you have a 50 degree
incline. the slope would be tangent(50 degrees) which is
about 1.19, or 119% if you want to use that percentage
notation.    Anyone who likes to learn more about
trigenometry could start here.

http://www.sosmath.com/trig/Trig1/trig1/trig1.html

--
Wing Nut
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 22 Mar 2005 23:27 GMT
>Canoli is confusing degrees with grade.  In mathematics (not
>mathamatics as someone posted) what has been refeered to as
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>notation.    Anyone who likes to learn more about
>trigenometry could start here.

I don't know squat about trigonometry
unk - 23 Mar 2005 17:34 GMT
>>Canoli is confusing degrees with grade.  In mathematics (not
>>mathamatics as someone posted) what has been refeered to as
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>I don't know squat about trigonometry

If you know squat about trig, why do you comment negatively on Will's
perfectly accurate statement as though you are the keeper of all
knowledge.  You are the poster boy for the statement that it is better
to remain silent and have people think you are a fool than to open
your mouth and remove all doubt.

You do it in virtually every post you make.
Will Sill - 23 Mar 2005 19:13 GMT
I see where unk <roamer@k7no.com> adressed canoli@sbcglobal.net as
follows:

>If you know squat about trig, why do you comment negatively on Will's
>perfectly accurate statement as though you are the keeper of all
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>You do it in virtually every post you make.

Thanx, but not to worry.  Canoli is fully as irrational about anything
I write as Janet is about FMCA.   You just have to understand where
he's coming from: West La La Land.

Will Sill
The list of subjects I care about is shrinking steadily.
Items missing from that list include but are not limited to:
- The views of moronic and anti-American nut cases
- Terminally boring and/or thoughtless commentaries.
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 22 Mar 2005 23:46 GMT
>> Will Sill <wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>notation.    Anyone who likes to learn more about
>trigenometry could start here.

I don't know squat about trigonometry (not trigenometry as someone
posted <g>)but I'm pretty sure the difference between grade and slope
is semantic.

If a grade or slope is 50 degrees, or 119% of a 45 degree grade or
slope, and a 45 degree grade or slope, (which in actuality is a 45
degree incline)is the 100% baseline, then it follows that a 50 degree
grade or slope is a 50 degree incline, no?

Or does mathematics make no allowance for logic?

Canoli
Mark Jones - 23 Mar 2005 01:51 GMT
> If a grade or slope is 50 degrees, or 119% of a 45 degree grade or
> slope, and a 45 degree grade or slope, (which in actuality is a 45
> degree incline)is the 100% baseline, then it follows that a 50 degree
> grade or slope is a 50 degree incline, no?
>
> Or does mathematics make no allowance for logic?
The error is in a mis-application of the terminology.

It is a 50 percent grade based on the common usage.
This is quite different than a 50 degree slope.

A 50 percent grade is 50 feet rise per 100 feet run.
50/100 = 0.5 or 50%

To convert this to an angle, use the inverse tangent.
Inverse Tangent(0.5) = 26.6 degrees

To convert 50 degrees to rise/run you use the tangent function.
It uses the same formula, rise/run.

Tan(50 degrees) = 1.19

119 feet rise / 100 feet run = 1.10

You can see how much steeper 50 degrees is.

Enough math lessons for now. You can do all of these calculations
using the calculator in MS Windows.
wwemu@cwnet.com - 23 Mar 2005 03:41 GMT
>> If a grade or slope is 50 degrees, or 119% of a 45 degree grade or
>> slope, and a 45 degree grade or slope, (which in actuality is a 45
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>Enough math lessons for now. You can do all of these calculations
>using the calculator in MS Windows.

Mark,

Isn't that Inverse Tangent what us old folks used to call the
Co-Tangent?   Is that part of the Kalifornia new math?

George
Mark Jones - 23 Mar 2005 04:09 GMT
> Mark,
>
> Isn't that Inverse Tangent what us old folks used to call the
> Co-Tangent?   Is that part of the Kalifornia new math?
There are several descriptions. I have seen it called all of these.

Co-Tangent, Arc Tangent, Inverse Tangent

Inverse is pretty easy to understand and the inverse(Inv) check box
is what you click in MS Windows calculator before clicking on the
TAN button.

I work with trig on a very frequent basis, so all of this is in my
memory even 23 years after college.
Misifus - 24 Mar 2005 22:08 GMT
>>Mark,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I work with trig on a very frequent basis, so all of this is in my
> memory even 23 years after college.

Actually, the inverse function of the tangent function is called
arctangent, or inverse tangent (tan^-1), but the cotangent is a
different function.  Cotangent is run/rise, or opposite over
adjacent sides.  It is the inverse of the value of the tangent
function.

The inverse function is not the mathematical inverse of the value
of the tangent function, it is the inverse operation.  That is,
the tangent function says, "For the given angle, what is the
ratio of the opposite side to the adjacent side?"  The inverse
tangent function asks, "What angle will have this value of its
tangent function?"  In other words, the tangent gives the
numerical value of a ratio, the inverse gives the angle.

I just retired after teaching mathematics (calculus) for the last
twenty years.

    -Raf

Signature

Misifus-
Rafael Seibert
mailto:raf_seibert@cox.net
http://www.ralphandsue.com

wwemu@cwnet.com - 24 Mar 2005 23:19 GMT
>>>Mark,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
>    -Raf

Thank you,  Rafael!  It has been around thirty years since I had
Calculus (needed it for a pre med requirement) and have not had the
need to use it since.  Your explanation brought it back like it was
yesterday.   Say, isn't that a sign of Alzheimer's - can't remember
yesterday but can remember way back clearly????  

Again thanks for the enlightenment.

George
Mark Jones - 25 Mar 2005 01:07 GMT
> >>Mark,
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> adjacent sides.  It is the inverse of the value of the tangent
> function.
My memory was telling me that cotangent was different, but I
didn't want to get up and go get my trig textbook.

> The inverse function is not the mathematical inverse of the value
> of the tangent function, it is the inverse operation.  That is,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> tangent function?"  In other words, the tangent gives the
> numerical value of a ratio, the inverse gives the angle.
That is exactly what I meant and that is how the function in
the MS calculator works.

> I just retired after teaching mathematics (calculus) for the last
> twenty years.

I have to work with trig a lot because I repair and calibrate
surveying instruments for a living. Been doing that for over
20 years.
Mark Jones - 23 Mar 2005 04:18 GMT
> > If a grade or slope is 50 degrees, or 119% of a 45 degree grade or
> > slope, and a 45 degree grade or slope, (which in actuality is a 45
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> 119 feet rise / 100 feet run = 1.10
Should read 1.19. Missed the 9 key and hit 0.

> You can see how much steeper 50 degrees is.
>
> Enough math lessons for now. You can do all of these calculations
> using the calculator in MS Windows.
Carl - 23 Mar 2005 15:06 GMT
I think we can keep this going for years
with the ignorant challenging
those who know.
Mickey - 23 Mar 2005 17:11 GMT
> I don't know squat about trigonometry (not trigenometry as someone
> posted <g>)but I'm pretty sure the difference between grade and slope
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Canoli

Me thinks Canoli is confusing percent and degree.  Grades(incline) are
given in percentage NOT degrees.

Mickey
Carl - 23 Mar 2005 17:56 GMT
Grade is a measure of quality.
A high-grade road is the best that can be built.
A low-grade road is a jeep trail or worse.
Pretty simple, when you think about it.
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 24 Mar 2005 07:02 GMT
>Grade is a measure of quality.
>A high-grade road is the best that can be built.
>A low-grade road is a jeep trail or worse.
>Pretty simple, when you think about it.

True, but Merriam-Webster says:

Main Entry: grade

: the degree of inclination of a road or slope; also : a sloping road b : a datum or reference level; especially : ground level

Main Entry: slope

: upward or downward slant or inclination or degree of slant

Now I'm really confused:  Mickey says grade is not expressed in
degrees, yet many road signs and even the dictionary mention degrees.
You say grade applies to quality, which it does, but say nothing about
roads, and unk berates me and calls me stupid for asking questions
about something I don't understand, while Will is just his caustic
nasty self as usual.

There are a class of people who have knowledge of certain things about
which other people are unfamiliar.  This class sits on their little
store of learning, lording it over the lesser ones, smugly berating
them while behaving as though only they are intelligent, criticizing
and making comments about the character and personality of anyone who
dares to ask a question.

That class is more to be pitied for their self-ordained superiority
than admired for their learning. They seem to have forgotten that even
monkeys can be trained to count coconuts.

Canoli
Mike L. - 24 Mar 2005 16:47 GMT
> >Grade is a measure of quality.
> >A high-grade road is the best that can be built.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Canoli

Hi,

I drop in and check out this newsgroup from time to time and have been
following this thread.  I'm a Civil Engineer, experienced in road design
(just threw that out to keep the sniping down to a minimum, I'm thin
skinned).

Typically, we design the road inclinations based on what we term grade.
Most municipalities, DOTs, etc., specify maximum grades based upon various
factors such as speed limits, sight distances, local topography, etc.  In my
area (Texas Hill Country) most of the counties specify a maximum grade for
low volume, residential roads of about 10 - 12 percent.  High traffic roads,
or roads expected to carry commercial trucking (highways) usually try to
limit the grade to 5 - 6%.  You also have to look at the benefit to cost
situation.  Sometimes, these grade limits are waived, especially for shorter
distances, due to extenuating circumstances such as topography.  Grades of
over 12% are considered very steep and often cannot be climbed by fire
trucks (tankers), school buses and trash trucks.

Now, to answer your question about what is grade, a number of people had it
correct.  You simply divide the vertical distance by the horizontal, then
multiply by 100.  For instance, taking a 10% grade (very steep) as an
example, you will climb 10 feet over a horizontal distance of 100'  (10/100
x 100 = 10%).  For a 1% slope (relatively flat) your would expect to climb
1' over 100' (1/100 x 100 = 1%).  If you go out and measure your driveway,
and determine that over 50' the drive rises 5', then the driveway's grade
would be 5/50x100=10%.  To give you a visual of typical grades, a
handicapped ramp into a department store is usually 8.33%, a cross slope on
a city sidewalk or subdivision road is about 2%.

Now that said, grades are not the same as degree (of measurement).  A 10%
grade would correspond to a little less than 6 degrees from the horizontal,
and a 1% grade would correspond to a little less than 2 degrees.  When you
talk of slope, it is pretty much the same as grade, but expressed as a
fraction, not a percentage.  So a road with a 10% grade would have  a slope
of 0.10.  But again, in the world of roadway design, we almost always
express roadway inclination as a percent grade.  I believe that in the
Webster definition quoted above, they are using the word "degree" not as an
angular measurement, but as a descriptor of the severity of the inclination.

And if you are not confused enough yet, when we work with grades of less
than 1%, we typically switch to slope, but express it as a ratio.  For
example, most of the slopes on the sides of the roads (where the dirt is)
are designed to a minimum slope.  The steepest slopes typically permitted
for areas that need to be mowed (grass) are no more than 3:1 (3 horizontal
to 1 vertical).  Roadway shoulders are typically no steeper than 6:1.

I hope this helps, sorry it's so long.

Mike
Don Bradner - 24 Mar 2005 20:00 GMT
>And if you are not confused enough yet, when we work with grades of less
>than 1%, we typically switch to slope, but express it as a ratio.  For
>example, most of the slopes on the sides of the roads (where the dirt is)
>are designed to a minimum slope.  The steepest slopes typically permitted
>for areas that need to be mowed (grass) are no more than 3:1 (3 horizontal
>to 1 vertical).  Roadway shoulders are typically no steeper than 6:1.

I think you may have stumbled a bit there. You talked about using
ratios when the grade is less than 1%, then you give two examples of
ratios, but the grades for those respective ratios are 33% and 17%
(rounded to nearest percent).

Signature

Don Bradner
donb at arcatapet dot com
www.arcatapet.net

Mike L. - 25 Mar 2005 04:01 GMT
> >And if you are not confused enough yet, when we work with grades of less
> >than 1%, we typically switch to slope, but express it as a ratio.  For
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> ratios, but the grades for those respective ratios are 33% and 17%
> (rounded to nearest percent).

Hi Don,

I know, it's strange, but we reverse the numbers (I have no idea why).  I
think it's probably to confuse anyone "not in the know", but it's correct as
I listed it.  And yes, I believe you're correct also.  I would think the
proper way to express the slope should be 1:3 for a rise of one over a run
of 3.  But if I was to put this on a construction plan, we'd end up with a
drop off on the side of the road (3 vertical to 1 horizontal).   Maybe
someone reading this can shed more light on why we reverse the numbers.

Mike
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 24 Mar 2005 20:25 GMT
>I hope this helps, sorry it's so long.
>
>Mike

Your post comes under the heading of "Don't curse the darkness, light
a candle".

Thank you, very much, for helping me to understand a subject which I
found incomprehensible:  would that all learned people were as kind
and patient.

Canoli
Will Sill - 24 Mar 2005 22:06 GMT
I see where "Mike L." <REMOVEhce@direcway.com> contributed a lengthy
explanation including:

>Now, to answer your question about what is grade, a number of people had it
>correct.  You simply divide the vertical distance by the horizontal, then
>multiply by 100.  For instance, taking a 10% grade (very steep) as an
>example, you will climb 10 feet over a horizontal distance of 100'  (10/100
>x 100 = 10%).  ...snip.....

>And if you are not confused enough yet, when we work with grades of less
>than 1%, we typically switch to slope, but express it as a ratio.  For
>example, most of the slopes on the sides of the roads (where the dirt is)
>are designed to a minimum slope.  The steepest slopes typically permitted
>for areas that need to be mowed (grass) are no more than 3:1 (3 horizontal
>to 1 vertical).  Roadway shoulders are typically no steeper than 6:1.

That last item is a bit confusing - a 6:1 slope/grade is a LOT more
than 1%!

Some are even further confused by roof pitch, which is almost always
expressed as a fraction: ie 5/12.   We have a 10/12 pitch on our "Cape
Cod" style place, but 12/12 is also common for that type - and
corresponds to a "100% grade" and a 45 degree angle from vertical.

I agree a 10% grade is very steep on a highway, but caution that there
are many secondary highways/roads in hill country that are much
steeper than that.   PA 29 measures about 19% in places near our home,
and our access road is 26%.  (Ask Lon!)

Will Sill

A key difference between communists and liberals/socialists
is that liberals mistakenly believe their vision(s) of the ideal
society can be achieved without violence and bloodshed. Communists,
therefore, have the advantage of not being so bone stupid.


Mike L. - 25 Mar 2005 04:21 GMT
> I see where "Mike L." <REMOVEhce@direcway.com> contributed a lengthy
> explanation including:
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> society can be achieved without violence and bloodshed. Communists,
> therefore, have the advantage of not being so bone stupid.

Whoops, I goofed (never been much on proof reading my own stuff).  You're
right, don't know what I was thinking.  We switch to the slope notation for
sideslopes on roadway embankments, ditch cross-sections, etc.  I think it's
probably to give the dozer operators an easy way figure out how steep to
make the cuts or fills without too much math (what's a 10% grade?) or
bringing a surveyor in.  As I was saying to Don above, we also reverse the
numbers to run over rise (don't know why).  So for a typical DOT shoulder,
it would say 6:1 on the construction plans, meaning 6 horizontal to 1
vertical.  A lot of the rural Counties will let us go to 3:1, and some to
2:1 (enough, I would think, to flip a car).

We have a hill not too far from here that's at 25% - I think it's the
steepest I've ever seen on a public street.  When my kids were little, I
wouldn't let them go down it (my parents lived at the top) because I was
afraid they wouldn't make it back up.  I always wondered about it, and in
casual conversation a few years ago I ran into a retired engineer who
approved this road when he worked for the City.  He had told the Developer
there was no way he was going to let him put that road there and disapproved
the plans.  Turns out the Developer was friends with the engineer's
supervisor, and the road was henceforth approved.  The retired engineer
still turns red when he talks about it.
Mickey - 24 Mar 2005 18:13 GMT
> Now I'm really confused:  Mickey says grade is not expressed in
> degrees, yet many road signs and even the dictionary mention degrees.
> You say grade applies to quality, which it does, but say nothing about
> roads,

snip

> Canoli
>  
You must travel different roads than I do.  I can't recall every
seeing a road incline expressed in degrees.

Maybe Mike L's comments will clarify.

This topic isn't anything to loose sleep over.

Mickey
Mark Jones - 23 Mar 2005 01:41 GMT
> >Bad as the state of public education is, some answers were correct.
> >Grade IS correctly described as rise vs run - a 10% grade rises 10'
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> formula since by those standards, a 50% grade is a 50 degree incline,
> unless that also calls for an exception.

Rise/Run = Tan(angle)

A 50% grade would be a rise of 50 feet per 100 feet traveled.

The inverse tangent of 0.5 is about 26.6 degrees.
unk - 23 Mar 2005 17:30 GMT
>>Bad as the state of public education is, some answers were correct.
>>Grade IS correctly described as rise vs run - a 10% grade rises 10'
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Canoli

Canoli

Once again you offer proof of your abject ig.. stupidity.

Grade is "Rise over Run"

In trigonometry, that is the tangent of the angle formed by "rise over
run".

As the angle goes from 0 to 90, the tangent goes from 0 to infinity.
At 45 degrees, the rise equals the run and rise/run = 1.  Infinity
occurring at 90 degrees where the "Y" component is some length and the
"X" component is 0.  Any number divided by 0 is infinity.

Dean
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 24 Mar 2005 07:10 GMT
>Once again you offer proof of your abject ig.. stupidity.

>Dean

Thank you for your kind words, Dean, you restore my faith in the
inherent decency of the learned towards the untrained.

I readily admitted I know nothing about trigonometry, yet you continue
to try to impress me with your knowledge of the subject, while calling
me stupid.

A question:  which of us is the more stupid, me for not knowing the
subject, or you for showing off your knowledge?  And notice, please, I
make no comment about your intelligence or character, since I strongly
believe insult is the ultimate refuge of scoundrels and the ignorant.

Canoli
unk - 26 Mar 2005 17:56 GMT
Since you readily admit to knowing nothing about trig, why did you
comment negatively on posts that were putting forth accurate
information?  

You post to inflame, not inform.

I believe my original statement stands on its merits.

>>Once again you offer proof of your abject ig.. stupidity.
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Canoli
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 26 Mar 2005 22:28 GMT
>Since you readily admit to knowing nothing about trig, why did you
>comment negatively on posts that were putting forth accurate
>information?  

Were all of the posts accurate?  There seems to be pro and con on the
subject, but that aside, the point I was trying to make was Will
offered seemingly contradictory positions.

>You post to inflame, not inform.

If my reply to you was inflammatory, my apologies.  You saw fit to
insult me, while I replied without personal attack.  May I repeat
myself?  Which of us is the more stupid?

>I believe my original statement stands on its merits.

If you consider calling someone ignorant and stupid then I question
the merit of your statements, but accept your position that only those
with training or actual experience in a specific subject should post
an opinion.  

Sort of shuts down the chit chat on the group, though.

Canoli
Mickey - 22 Mar 2005 18:41 GMT
> I have been following this thread without adding my $0.02 and have
> concluded that public education is as bad as I have heard.  I have
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Sheeesh

Ain't it the truth!

Mickey
Greg Surratt - 23 Mar 2005 00:05 GMT
>How can intelligent people make such basic arithmatic mistakes?
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^
>Sheeesh

Forfeited (sp?) spelling for math, did you?   ;-)
unk - 23 Mar 2005 17:53 GMT
>>How can intelligent people make such basic arithmatic mistakes?
>                                            ^^^^^^^^^^
>>Sheeesh
>
>Forfeited (sp?) spelling for math, did you?   ;-)

Naw, sex-ed! 8^,
 
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