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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / July 2005

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Laptop and GPS program

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SteveB - 18 Jul 2005 01:00 GMT
We are getting a laptop for the MH.

Suggestions?

And a GPS CD program.  We have handheld GPS now, but just use it for speed,
and marking boondocking spots.  Now we want one to navigate in bigger cities
and find fuel stops, etc.

Suggestions?

Steve

(I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
salespeople.......... ;-)
Hunter - 18 Jul 2005 01:45 GMT
>We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
>Suggestions?

I use Dell. I have two identical Inspiron 8200s.  I bought the second
when the first one crashed. naturally the first one is fine now that I
have a back up. <g>

I would get another Dell or a Toshiba.

Hunter
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy sh.t...what a ride!"
SteveB - 18 Jul 2005 01:50 GMT
>>We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Hunter

Hmmmm.  You have two but only need one .................
Hunter - 18 Jul 2005 01:58 GMT
>Hmmmm.  You have two but only need one .................

I have the back up because the time my one crashed it went into the
shop for 10 days....

If it happens again I am up and running in a matter of seconds.

So, sorry I don't want to sell it <g>

Hunter
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy sh.t...what a ride!"
lotsatime - 18 Jul 2005 02:44 GMT
> We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
> salespeople.......... ;-)

I would suggest that the laptop you get have the 'ultra bright' screen.
I have mine mounted in front of the dash between the seats of my
Winnebago and there are times when the high contrast screen (which I
don't have) would be very useful.
I have a Delorme GPS unit and tend to use Streets and Trips software.
MOMPEAGRAM - 18 Jul 2005 18:21 GMT
>> We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> would be very useful.
> I have a Delorme GPS unit and tend to use Streets and Trips software.

This is the GPS I got.  DeLorme Earthmate that I can hook into my laptop.
Have yet to use it as we went back to England for Christmas instead of going
south.  I am looking forward to trying it out.
birch999@hotmail.com - 18 Jul 2005 21:17 GMT
>This is the GPS I got.  DeLorme Earthmate that I can hook into my laptop.
>Have yet to use it as we went back to England for Christmas instead of going
>south.  I am looking forward to trying it out.

If your accompanying mapping program is Delorme SA, it's probably not
all that great for Canadians. It was only within the last couple years
or so, that Delorme even acknowledged that there were any roads at all
north of the 49th; and from what I've heard on the GPS NG, their most
recent nominal inclusion of a few Canadians roadways, is totally
useless. For instance, while MS Streets &Trips provides absolutely
complete data on Edmonton, Alberta; all Delorme provides is a mere dot!

I've been using MS Streets since 2001, and have been most impressed with
it's complete coverage of major urban and surrounding environs. It even
shows detail all the way down to displaying intra-campground roadways
and loops within Provincial State and National Parks. The only places
that are not yet fully covered, are isolated rural communities such as
in northern Quebec and Nova Scotia. Since most of these communities
seldom have even so much as one street in addition to the highway
passing through town, it's not likely that you are going get
irretrievably lost in a two street hamlet.
Wade - 18 Jul 2005 23:09 GMT
>>This is the GPS I got.  DeLorme Earthmate that I can hook into my laptop.
>>Have yet to use it as we went back to England for Christmas instead of
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> passing through town, it's not likely that you are going get
> irretrievably lost in a two street hamlet.

Delorme SA is arguably the most useless mapping program outside of the
Continental US, then you can say the same-thing about all other US based
mapping programs with the exception of S&T that has detailed maps right down
to street level even in places like Yellowknife NWT, and thus far the only
one that actually knows there are roads south of the US border.
Wade
MOMPEAGRAM - 19 Jul 2005 01:17 GMT
>>This is the GPS I got.  DeLorme Earthmate that I can hook into my laptop.
>>Have yet to use it as we went back to England for Christmas instead of
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> passing through town, it's not likely that you are going get
> irretrievably lost in a two street hamlet.

Thanks.  Don't really need it for Canada, bought it for our trips down
below.
birch999@hotmail.com - 18 Jul 2005 02:49 GMT
>We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
>Suggestions?
>
>And a GPS CD program.

I recently got the Microsoft Streets & Trips 2005 with GPS receiver
package: CDN$150. Now that I've had a chance to give it a good workout,
I'm really impressed!

Tracking 5 to 8 satellites, it tends to be accurate within about a
5'radius. Unlike older versions of MS Streets that only updated every 15
seconds, 2004 and 2005 update at a one-second interval, showing compass
direction, speed, altitude, exact time, along with longitude and
latitude, and the number of satellites that are being received.

Although the receiver works okay with S&T 2004, it's a lot harder to
track. A really helpful addition to the 2005 version, beyond the
compass, speed etc., is that it now leaves a blue trail on the map
showing where you've been; which makes it a whole lot easier to figure
out where you are headed, and how much progress you are making.

Microsoft has also improved upon their route-planning. In previous
versions, they had a propensity come up with some *REALLY* dumb ideas!
The new version evidences more intelligent improved trip-planning.

While stuff like the Garmin? 2610 and successors have a reputation for
being a bit flakey, and not all that reliable; MS 2005 with GPS is a
rather attractive option. For about the same price as a 2610, you can
not only buy MS Streets complete with GPS, but a whole new laptop
computer which will do at least a little more than merely tell you where
you are!

The new 2005 version demands somewhat increased computing power. I tried
it on my aged IBM laptop with Win 98, a mere 4 gig hard-drive and only
64 meg memory; while I was sometimes able to get it to initialize at the
outset, it kacked out 9 out of 10 tries. :-)

My overall impression is that this particular software, along with the
included GPS receiver, is real winner!! Well worth the meager CDN$150!

For our new laptop, we picked a Compaq V2140CA with a 14" Brightview
Widescreen, which means that the screen is only about 7" high. At the
beginning of our trip from Toronto to Alaska this Spring, my navigator
protested vociferously against having that contraption in front of her
on the dash; but after a few days, she refused to start the day until
the computer had been set up for our intended destination. :-)  One
feature we really liked was the "Recalculate Route from Current
Destination" at the bottom of the GPS panel. Once the destination has
been entered to the Route, each time you click on the "Recalculate Route
from Current Destination" it will tell you exactly how much further you
have to go, and how to get there from here. While the Brightview screen
is the brightest LCD I've ever seen, you will still have to squint a bit
to see the screen in bright sunlight.

GPS was only one use for the laptop. We also use it for downloading the
photos for the day from the digital camera, and burning them to DVD. And
last, but not least, it's our communication centre. This is the first
year we've travelled without a cell phone. All of our email and internet
stuff is now done via wifi connections which we can pick up free in
almost any shopping mall; and becoming increasingly available in RV
campgrounds. That one feature alone, saves us $100 per week over using a
cell phone for internet connections.

I'm very pleased with the S&T 2005 with GPS system. Although it wouldn't
run on my aged IBM with only 64 meg RAM, it works great on the new
laptop. We just got back from a 15,000 km trip from Toronto to Alaska,
with the laptop sitting on the motorhome dash, and it was extremely
accurate 99.9% of the time. Once we got north of Denali, it consistently
tracked all the way, about a half km east of the highway; and then in
Fairbanks, it (or maybe me) seemed to get confused. The only other time
we experienced an anomaly, was out around Winnipeg when we wanted it to
take us to a specific address. While we found the address via S&T, it
showed our GPS location as being a mile or so further down the road at a
different interchange.

The only other anomaly, was that at the end of the day, the program to
hang for about 5 minutes with the hour glass showing every time we
clicked on something. This only happened after S&T had been tracking
continuously for 8 hours or so. Restarting the program would restore
normal operation.

Stan Birch
Newmarket, Ontario
GeoffP - 18 Jul 2005 03:11 GMT
>>We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> package: CDN$150. Now that I've had a chance to give it a good workout,
> I'm really impressed!
Snip
>  Stan Birch
> Newmarket, Ontario
====
I agree with almost everything you said Stan except that I have 3 Garmins
and none of them have ever been flaky. I also have MS&T and like it a lot.
The one I use most though is my Garmin iQue, mostly because it is small
enough to fit almost anywhere, has no wires (except for charger in the
cig.lighter)and gives me voice directions. I do have a problem also with
reflections on the display but it is easier to move around to get rid of
them. Bang for the buck though if you don't count the cost of the laptop(you
would need that for wi-fi anyway) is the unit you bought. Sounds as if you
had a good trip.
Take care,
Geoff.
LB@nospam.info - 18 Jul 2005 04:11 GMT
> We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
> salespeople.......... ;-)

Be very cautious about getting Compaq or HP.  There are multiple news stories
about HP (which owns Compaq too) being about to do a huge layoff.
If you have a Costco card consider buying from them because they have a great
return policy (its posted in the stores).

LB
tat-2 - 18 Jul 2005 04:52 GMT
I have a Delorme LT-20 picked it up for $75 at Best Buy.
It works fantastic with my Dell Dimension 8250  P4 2.6G 800FSB (Rambus
memory) desktop, works with the Dell Inspiron 8600. I have two older (Tyan
Trinity 400 with BX chips) P3 1Gig and can not get it to sync to the Sats.
using either a VIA chipset or the NEC chipset on a USB 2.0 PCI card. Best I
ever had was one red Sat. no Green.

The LT-20 is USB.

Ed

> We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
> salespeople.......... ;-)
Rich - 18 Jul 2005 12:59 GMT
>We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>(I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
>salespeople.......... ;-)

i just ordered a dell lattitude notebook.  we use them at work and
they seem rugged and reliable.  for gps we use delorme street atlas
coupled with the earthmate gps receiver.  we prefer this combo because
it can be set to provide turn-by-turn voice instructions.  MS streets
and trips might have better street level instructions but, AFAIK,
provides no oral instructions.  

73,
rich, n9dko
(20 working days to go!)
Hunter - 18 Jul 2005 15:40 GMT
Steve,

If you call Dell to order.... tell them you are a business, it's not
for home use.

Then, if you call with questions or service issues you will get an
American on the phone.

Hunter
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy sh.t...what a ride!"
SteveB - 18 Jul 2005 17:01 GMT
> Steve,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Hunter

My experience with Dell:

My son needed a computer at college a couple of years ago.

Dell had a sale, PLUS a $100 rebate.  That clinched the deal.

Paid with Credit Card.

One month passes.  No rebate.

Phone calls.  "The check is in the mail."

Two months pass.  No rebate.

Phone calls to people I cannot understand speaking in dialectic accents.
Each promise the rebate.  Each new time I call, I can't get the same person,
and the new person knows nothing about the case.

Three months pass.  No rebate.
Start working up the ladder of phone supervisors.  Get some with American
accents.

Supervisor says they will give $100 credit.  I say that is unacceptable, and
not what was in the sales pitch.  Don't want more stuff, just the Franklin.

Long story short, finally get the rebate after nearly six months, and
notifying the credit card company.

Dell is not my first choice.

Steve
LB@nospam.info - 18 Jul 2005 20:16 GMT
> > Steve,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Steve

Flip side of that story:
I bought a 19" Acer LCD  from Tiger Direct (from a sales letter no less)
$279 less $50 rebate.
Get LCD  "No Signal"  Turns out the male male VGA cable is NAG (I tried another
cable).  Call TD they send a new cable gratis.  But when I get it I see its a
cheap cable so I call Acer.  They are supposed to send another (good cable).
Meanwhile I send in rebate to company Tiger Direct uses.  I think I follow all
directions.  The rebate outfit denies it "Not signed".  I get really pissed
cause I did send in the UPC and the receipt.  Send rebate outfit a real nasty
letter.  While writing letter I call Tiger Direct.  Get an American. Tell him my
story.  He gets his supervisor on the phone. Supervisor puts a $50 credit on my
Amex card then and there.  So it might be worth checking out Tiger Direct - just
be very leery of mail-in rebate deals.  BTW the outfit is called onrebate.com.

LB
Rich - 19 Jul 2005 00:02 GMT
>Steve,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
>but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy sh.t...what a ride!"

thanks, hunter.  i was able to buy the lattitude through our employee
purchase plan otherwise i might have had a struggle getting dell to
sell me a latttitude.  imagine that...struggling to get a company to
sell you something.  it arrived today and i can't wait to get 'r open.

73,
rich, n9dko
(19 working days to go!!)
57Pan - 19 Jul 2005 16:39 GMT
> i just ordered a dell lattitude notebook.  we use them at work and
> they seem rugged and reliable.  for gps we use delorme street atlas
> coupled with the earthmate gps receiver.  we prefer this combo because
> it can be set to provide turn-by-turn voice instructions.  MS streets
> and trips might have better street level instructions but, AFAIK,
> provides no oral instructions.  

I use Delorme also and agree that the voice instructions are very handy.
 I tried to set it up so that I could give voice commands to the
program but there is just too much noise in the cab of the truck so I
have learned to do without that feature.  I just memorize some of the
main commands so that I can quickly hit one of the function keys when I
need to know how far to the next stop etc.

I too am using it with a Dell Latitude - works very well.  I have the
laptop sitting on the console between the front seats in the cab.  I
have a piece of that rubberized shelf liner stuff on the console and the
 laptop does not move around at all.  The laptop is powered from an
inverter.

My GPS is a handheld (Magellan).  If I were going to use it strictly as
an interface to Delorme I would get the EarthMate, but I use the GPS
when we hike and bike too, so I need one that has a display.

Signature

~~~~~~~~~~~
Regards,

Dave

SteveB - 19 Jul 2005 18:34 GMT
> My GPS is a handheld (Magellan).  If I were going to use it strictly as an
> interface to Delorme I would get the EarthMate, but I use the GPS when we
> hike and bike too, so I need one that has a display.

Now, another question:

I have a Garmin 12XL.  It has the computer cable.  Can I use that as the
pickup and just plug it into the laptop?  Would it be compatible with say,
the Delorme software?

Or do I need a proprietary sensor to go with whatever software I buy?

Geez, this is getting exciting.  It's getting close to purchase time, and
I'm looking forward to something else to play with.......................

Steve
L'l John - 19 Jul 2005 20:57 GMT
> Now, another question:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Or do I need a proprietary sensor to go with whatever software I buy?

I use an eMap by Garmin with my laptop and Delorme software. Works just
fine.
John
RAM^3 - 20 Jul 2005 00:32 GMT
>> My GPS is a handheld (Magellan).  If I were going to use it strictly as
>> an interface to Delorme I would get the EarthMate, but I use the GPS when
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> pickup and just plug it into the laptop?  Would it be compatible with say,
> the Delorme software?

As long as its output is NMEA-compatible it'll work with both the Delorme
and MS software.

> Or do I need a proprietary sensor to go with whatever software I buy?

Not if your Garmin produces NMEA-compatible output.

> Geez, this is getting exciting.  It's getting close to purchase time, and
> I'm looking forward to something else to play with.......................
>
> Steve
Dapper Dave - 21 Jul 2005 13:48 GMT
>"RAM^3" <S31924.nospam@netscape.net> wrote:

>> Now, another question:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>
>> Steve

By the way, the Garmin 2610 cannot produce NMEA format output, unlike my
old Street Pilot III. :(

Signature

DD

Lee - 18 Jul 2005 15:38 GMT
> We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
> salespeople.......... ;-)
Hi Steve

    I bought a Toshiba Satellite A45-S150 and use Delorme Street Atlas with
it and with Delorme GPS Tracker.  So far after 18 months I have had no
problems other than the users mistakes (grin)....

Lee
MOMPEAGRAM - 18 Jul 2005 18:18 GMT
> We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
> salespeople.......... ;-)
I just purchased a new laptop for the RV.  Actually, i use it all the time.
It's really great and has everything I could want.

COMPAQ PRESARIO R4035

Has built in Wi-Fi.  Made by HP.
birch999@hotmail.com - 18 Jul 2005 22:02 GMT
>I just purchased a new laptop for the RV. Actually, i use it all the time.
>It's really great and has everything I could want.
>
>COMPAQ PRESARIO R4035

And we just bought a Compaq V2140CA with a 14" Brightview Widescreen;
and couldn't be more pleased with the entire effort.

There was a time, perhaps a decade ago, when I wouldn't have touched a
Compact with a ten foot pole! Their proprietary BIOS, chipset and
operating system just wouldn't work with a whole lot of hardware and
software on the market!

But times have changed! I bought my Compaq based upon the fact that it
utilized an Intel Centrino CPU, and Intel Chipset; and Intel Wifi
system. And you can't get anything more generic, or more likely to work
with EVERYTHING than a fully Intel system.

Been through a couple of abysmal IBM laptops. They were such total
crapp, that IBM has now sold their entire laptop business to some joint
in Bejing.

Then there's Dell . . . still riding upon the crest of past reputation;
but no longer making any effort to protect that reputation. Customer
"service" is now only available to those who understand Punjabi. Duh.

Apart from Compaq/HP and Toshiba, there's really nothing else out there.
Apart from pricing, I have no problem with Toshiba. But price is a major
consideration to most purchasers; and I've often seen Toshiba laptops
priced at 2X that of Compaq for a computer with essentially the very
same specs.

>Has built in Wi-Fi. Made by HP.

Their Wifi design seems to pretty awesome! With an antenna array built
into both sides of the screen area; in a wifi scenario where 200' or
300' is considered an accomplishment; on a recent trip, our Compaq was
connected to a casino at least 1500 feet away, with a full four-bar
signal!
Don S - 18 Jul 2005 20:53 GMT
>We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>(I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
>salespeople.......... ;-)

I've used Dell and Toshiba laptops with Garmin GPS III+ & the Color
model (I don't recall the number)  with equal success.  I do use an
external magnetic antenna on the dashboard that greatly speeds  up
satellite access.

I've been using DeLorme's Street Atlas 9.  I've used Street Atlas
since version 2 & loved it until their current versions that are so
unfriendly to this user that I uninstalled them & put 9 back on.  I
just can't get used to the new interface - try as I will.

I keep a black photographic cloth handy to cover my head and laptop
(when I'm on the side of the road) to see in bright light.  I can't
find a laptop that I can read if it is brignt.

I'm going to try MS Streets & Trips next.  It seems to have happy
users & my old SA9 is getting obsolete.

Don S
BD - 19 Jul 2005 01:21 GMT
> I'm going to try MS Streets & Trips next.  It seems to have happy
> users & my old SA9 is getting obsolete.
>
> Don S

If you can wait until Oct. 16, Costco has MS-S&T(2005) for $14.95 with
rebate.

www.costco.com

BD
The Airman - 19 Jul 2005 01:36 GMT
The rebate is going on now...

Here is a copy from costco's web site:

$20 Rebate Available:

     Online price
    $34.99

     Less mail-in rebate
    -$20.00

     YOUR COST
    $14.99

 a.. This rebate offer is valid on qualified online purchases dated October
10, 2004 to December 31, 2005, with a limit of one (1) rebate per
household/membership.

>> I'm going to try MS Streets & Trips next.  It seems to have happy
>> users & my old SA9 is getting obsolete.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> BD
BD - 19 Jul 2005 02:35 GMT
> The rebate is going on now...
>
> Here is a copy from costco's web site:

You are correct!  I missed the year 04 for October...Damn glasses.

BD
Don S - 19 Jul 2005 16:06 GMT
Thanks for the heads up on the coupon.

I was getting ready to join Costco (I'm a long time Sam's Club member)
for a major purchase so the membership fee won't be an issue for the
Streets & Trips software.

Don S

>> I'm going to try MS Streets & Trips next.  It seems to have happy
>> users & my old SA9 is getting obsolete.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>BD
RAM^3 - 18 Jul 2005 21:57 GMT
> We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
> Suggestions?

Personally, I'm partial to the Toshiba line.

I use a Toshiba Satellite 1955-S805 that has a nice, bright, 16.1" screen
and a 2.53 GHz P4 processor.

I think that they've retitled their models so you might want to check out
their current offerings.

> And a GPS CD program.  We have handheld GPS now, but just use it for
> speed, and marking boondocking spots.  Now we want one to navigate in
> bigger cities and find fuel stops, etc.
>
> Suggestions?

I'm running the Delorme Street Atlas 2003 but plan to upgrade to their 2005
version.

I prefer it to the MS Streets & Trips (which I also have)for trip planning
and enroute information.

I use a Delorme Earthmate GPS (USB) with both of these packages as well as
the Trailer Life Campground Finder software. [Don't waste your money on
THAT POS.]

> Steve
>
> (I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
> salespeople.......... ;-)
Dapper Dave - 19 Jul 2005 00:37 GMT
>"RAM^3" <s31924.nospam@netscape.net> wrote:

>Personally, I'm partial to the Toshiba line.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I think that they've retitled their models so you might want to check out
>their current offerings.

Back in March, I bought a Toshiba Satellite M45-S331 laptop for $1,049
after rebates. The bright wide-aspect screen is incredibly good.

After a month, the screen started going dark in one corner. From the
time I called Toshiba until I received my laptop with a new display back
in my hands was five days.

Between my wife and me, we have had four HP and Compaq laptops. I was
unhappy with the quality of the product on two of them and furious with
the quality of the service on every one. This time I decided not to save
the $100 on what appeared to be a "comparable" HP. It appears to have
been a good decision.

Signature

DD

The Airman - 19 Jul 2005 01:32 GMT
I use a Garmin Streetpilot III in my RV that is permanently mounted, it is
terrific, I have a cable that I use to my wife's HP NC6000 in the RV for the
Garmin Mapsource software on the laptop.  They work great.  The Garmin
software costs for updates, but is pretty darned good.  I compared the
Garmin database to the Microsoft S&T database in Europe and the Garmin
Nav-tech database was superior in detail.  I have compared the Garmin
software to MS S&T in the US yet.  (I have a Garmin 430 in my C172 - love to
use Garmin)

Since we are taling about laptops (no I am not a salesman) I personally use
a Toshiba Tecra M2 with 2GB of memory, WiFi, BT, 100GB disk, DVD burner and
a 1400x1050 SXGA screen.  Never had much problems with any Toshibas I have
owned over the last 15 years, have brought my laptops around the world,
always had good service when needed (I have the Toshiba Systemguard
warranty - not that department store TAP or ESP junk).

My backup laptop is an HP NC6000 that my wife uses.  HP has excellent
service when you purchase the 3 year accidental damage policy direct from
HP.

The HP broke once a month after it was new, (the dog pulled the power cable
and the laptop slammed on an object on the floor - the screen broke - HP had
a box the next business day at my doorstep, and overnight service back to
HP, the laptop was back in 3 days.

Both of my sons use HP, the older one has destroyed his laptop during
college twice (once his backpack dropped from his shoulder and rolled off
the curb where a truck ran over the backpack - was totally destroyed, HP
replaced it in 3 business days with a new one, the same laptop was fried the
next year in a medical lab - surged doing data collection - he is a med
student- HP replaced it within 3 days again)

Although more expensive, the Toshiba Tecra series and the HP NC series are
the commercial lines of the respective companies, and are well worth it for
ruggedness and "light weight ness", especially when I drag it around the
airport to the cockpit to the hotel to .....

My 2 cents worth....

Ed
Dapper Dave - 19 Jul 2005 14:21 GMT
And I see in today's news that HP is cutting 10% of its workforce. THAT
will be great for quality and customer service, I'm sure.

The merger of HP and Compaq reminds me of the joke that was going around
when Sperry and Univac merged. They say it was like tying two one-legged
men together to make a sprinter.

Signature

DD

RAM^3 - 21 Jul 2005 17:43 GMT
> The merger of HP and Compaq reminds me of the joke that was going around
> when Sperry and Univac merged. They say it was like tying two one-legged
> men together to make a sprinter.

The main things that HP wanted out of Compaq were the Alpha chip (the
reason that Compaq bought out DEC) and their server business.

Compaq had already eliminated most of their full-time employees and
replaced them with temps that were on 3-month contracts. Since this
included their Quality Control people, the decline in Compaq products
became inevitable.

BTW, that was Sperry and Burroughs: Sperry Gyroscope called their first
attempt "Eniac" and their later, and more succesful, line "Univac". (Among
other makes & models, I programmed their 1004, 1005, 9200, 9300, 418-III,
and 1100 models.)
The Airman - 21 Jul 2005 20:30 GMT
We are dating ourselves, aren't we?

:)

>> The merger of HP and Compaq reminds me of the joke that was going around
>> when Sperry and Univac merged. They say it was like tying two one-legged
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> other makes & models, I programmed their 1004, 1005, 9200, 9300, 418-III,
> and 1100 models.)
RAM^3 - 21 Jul 2005 20:39 GMT
> We are dating ourselves, aren't we?
>
> :)

The first computer I ever programmed was an IBM 1620 - in 1964. <G>
John (Sandy) MacTavish - 22 Jul 2005 13:53 GMT
- you could consider getting the Delorme, and just the Microsoft
Streets & Trips software - so you'd have both

currently $14.95 at Cosco online ($20 rebate)
http://www.costco.com/Common/Category.aspx?whse=BC&topnav=&cat=21470&hierPath=63
1*&Browse
=

and if you order me a copy, I'll pay you - offer not
available in Canada, just as the Delorme doesn't have
Canada in their maps :-)

(operated a 1620, and other clunkers in the 60's)

--
Camaron que se duerme se lo lleva la corriente
Shrimp that fall asleep are carried away by the current
Dapper Dave - 22 Jul 2005 14:47 GMT
>"RAM^3" <s31924.nospam@netscape.net> wrote:

>BTW, that was Sperry and Burroughs: Sperry Gyroscope called their first
>attempt "Eniac" and their later, and more succesful, line "Univac". (Among
>other makes & models, I programmed their 1004, 1005, 9200, 9300, 418-III,
>and 1100 models.)

Doh! I knew that. I started out on the Burroughs 6700. Using CANDE on a
Silent 700 terminal, or programming on Holerith (sp?) cards.

Signature

DD

RAM^3 - 22 Jul 2005 19:42 GMT
> >"RAM^3" <s31924.nospam@netscape.net> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Doh! I knew that. I started out on the Burroughs 6700. Using CANDE on a
> Silent 700 terminal, or programming on Holerith (sp?) cards.

<chuckle>

I remember well when TI first announced their "bubble memory" and then, a
year or two later, introduced the TI Silent 700 line. In between, ITT had
introduced their Asciiscope as a portable data terminal with a CRT display.

When I retired in 2002, one of the last things that I turned back in was a
fully-functional TI 765 and a 9600 baud modem.

Lessee - I've mentioned the Uniwhacks - there were also the DDPs [x16 series
(316,416, 516, & 716) and the 632], the Honeywell 200 series (1200, 2200,
4200), the GE 110, 355, & 635, the GE/Honeywell 6000, DPS, and Datanet
series, the DEC PDP-8, the SDS/Xerox Sigma 7, the Control Data 6600, and the
IBM 7994, System 36, and 360, 370, and 390 series.

And those were just the computers. <G> (I also programmed other things like
Electronic Page Printing Systems. <g>)

Most of my programming was in an assembly language (with occasional
digression into binary), COBOL, and RPG with occasional forays into FORTRAN,
MAD, or FORGO.

I had a lot of fun - especially when working on 3 different makes in 3 (or
more) different languages concurrently - and got *paid* for it! [My last 3
decades were spent as a Systems Programmer.]

Today, most of those systems, like me, belong in a museum. <VBG>
Chris Bryant - 22 Jul 2005 21:50 GMT
> Most of my programming was in an assembly language (with occasional
> digression into binary), COBOL, and RPG with occasional forays into
> FORTRAN, MAD, or FORGO.

Nosy question- did you get any offers (or pleas) to work on the Y2K
stuff? I seem to remember that companies were having a tough time finding
people who were good at Cobol and Fortran to go through the code.

Signature

Chris Bryant
http://bryantrv.com

RAM^3 - 22 Jul 2005 22:36 GMT
>> Most of my programming was in an assembly language (with occasional
>> digression into binary), COBOL, and RPG with occasional forays into
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> stuff? I seem to remember that companies were having a tough time finding
> people who were good at Cobol and Fortran to go through the code.

Oh, yeah! I had "headhunters" out the wazoo calling at the office. But,
considering that I was nearing the point of "maxing" my pension benefits, I
decided to stay where I was.

Those of us in Technical Support were up to our eyeballs with Y2K projects
to verify the Operating Systems of our mainframes, PCs, and LANs as well as
such anciliary things as Tape Library systems, Page Printing Systems, etc.

We stayed busy - especially so since there were only 7 of us for the entire
Data Center.

When I retired in January of 2002 I wound up with a nice pay raise - both
gross and net - and a tidy sum of "going away money", most of which had only
been awarded in the preceding 9 months.
Dapper Dave - 23 Jul 2005 19:41 GMT
>Chris Bryant <bounces@bryantrv.com> wrote:

>> Most of my programming was in an assembly language (with occasional
>> digression into binary), COBOL, and RPG with occasional forays into
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>stuff? I seem to remember that companies were having a tough time finding
>people who were good at Cobol and Fortran to go through the code.

Our shop paid big bucks to contract COBOL/CICS programmers and bonuses
to employees to keep them from retiring in 1998 and 1999.  We had
production apps (personnel and payroll) that were just not economical to
fix, so we migrated them to Peoplesoft. Spent about $5-6 million on that
project alone. Interestingly, there was lots of work for the COBOL
modules in the Peoplesoft implementation as well.

Signature

DD

RAM^3 - 23 Jul 2005 21:01 GMT
> >Chris Bryant <bounces@bryantrv.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> project alone. Interestingly, there was lots of work for the COBOL
> modules in the Peoplesoft implementation as well.

Well, that was then and this is now - and, somehow, I don't expect to be
around for the *next* big one: Y10K!

People rarely realize just how much "old code" makes up the core programming
of "new and improved" software. <G>
Yofuri - 22 Jul 2005 22:04 GMT
> Most of my programming was in an assembly language (with occasional
> digression into binary), COBOL, and RPG with occasional forays into FORTRAN,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Today, most of those systems, like me, belong in a museum. <VBG>

Uh, huh...

Check Sunday's want ads for programmers in any big-city newspaper and
see how obsolete you are!

Rick
RAM^3 - 22 Jul 2005 23:05 GMT
>> Most of my programming was in an assembly language (with occasional
>> digression into binary), COBOL, and RPG with occasional forays into
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Rick

<chuckles>

After 34 years of 24*7, I couldn't care less. <G>

That's 34 years of 60-80 hours/week and 2AM 60-mile drives back to the
computer rooms for a 15-minute fix. [The reason that, in the mid-80's, I
found a way to "telecommute" and set up a system that's still in use. <g>]
That's 34 years of 24-72 hour "work days" fixing problems caused by
inattentive operators. That's 34 years of vacations missed thanks to
"Executive Decisions". [When I retired they paid me for *some* of that
time - about 2 year's wages that paid for our truck and 5er. <G>]

As others have said: "WORK is a 4-letter Anglo-Saxon Word!"

BTDT!

I get to maintain my residual LAN skills on my own equipment, and my
troubleshooting skills on my wife's PC. <G> (She's learning!) I also get to
practice my "Systems Integrator" skills by making our PCs and "goodies" do
what *I* want them to do. <G>

At this stage of my existance I'm happy to hit the road whenever I (and my
wife) can escape from the doctors. <G>
Chris Bryant - 22 Jul 2005 23:32 GMT
> That's 34 years of 24-72 hour "work days" fixing problems caused by
> inattentive operators.

Hey- you sound like a BOFH <vbg>.

Signature

Chris Bryant
http://bryantrv.com

RAM^3 - 23 Jul 2005 00:40 GMT
>> That's 34 years of 24-72 hour "work days" fixing problems caused by
>> inattentive operators.
>
> Hey- you sound like a BOFH <vbg>.

Naaaahh - I had my fun like *that* while working as a PBX operator in
college. <G>

After all, there shou ld be *some* benefit from working solo on a
multi-operator board for a measly $1.30/hr.

______

[Toll Divert (attempted LD call) rings]
[Operator plugs in.]

Operator: "Sam's Mortuary - You stab 'em we slam 'em! Sam's in the back
having a cold one."

[Operator disconnects the call.]

________

[Toll Divert rings]
[Operator plugs in.]

Operator: "Continental Trailways"
[Oops - it's a Sr. faculty member asking about an expected package arrival!]
Operator: "One Moment, Please!"
[Operator back-connects to local bus station]
[Operator unplugs after both hang up]
Operator: "Whew!"

________

No, Chris, I was the one who would actually FIX the problems.

I left alibis up to Management and Applications programmers - THEY needed
them. <G>
Gary Richtmeyer - 19 Jul 2005 03:04 GMT
Does anybody use CoPilot?

I've been using it with a laptop (in both an RV and car) for a few years,
but it's a little difficult to use and kind of expensive.  When I originally
bought it, research showed it to be the best on the market (e.g. maps,
coverage, it would speak to me and I could talk to it, etc), but I'm
considering changing to something else when it's time to upgrade again.

Gary Richtmeyer

> We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
> salespeople.......... ;-)
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 19 Jul 2005 04:44 GMT
>Does anybody use CoPilot?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Gary Richtmeyer

I've got an older CoPilot but it's like using a broken down Model T
next to a new Corvette.  I'll probably buy a modern system when we get
on the road again.

Canoli
Bill Lederer - 19 Jul 2005 12:35 GMT
Having worked for IBM for 30 years, I tried to buy their products.
Even though they never gave employees a discount, (only on models that
no one else wanted and then we had to wait months for them).  My last
two computers were from Dell. I'll swear by them.  The best support
was from their team in India. They are knowledgeable and SO courteous.
Unlike most in the U.S., (IBM support being the worst).

I have used DeLorme for many years. I really like their products.  We
used Streets 2005 a couple of months ago from New York to Virginia
Beach.  The only place it went crazy was going over the Chesapeake Bay
Bridge.  I guess it couldn't track where the bridge and tunnel went.  

We were in a car, so it worked fine.  We still haven't used it in the
Class C motorhome. I'm hoping it will work on the dash, with the over
hang. In our old Class C, I had the unit up against the window up in
the overhang. Now, the new MH doesn't have any windows up there.
Also, I still haven't figured out how to mount the laptop up front.

Bill L

>We are getting a laptop for the MH.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>(I'd Google, but I'm lazy, and I want to hear from users, not
>salespeople.......... ;-)
Wade - 19 Jul 2005 17:56 GMT
> Having worked for IBM for 30 years, I tried to buy their products.
> Even though they never gave employees a discount, (only on models that
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Bill L

Depends on your GPS, I have found the Earthmate had to have clear sky to
function properly, however when I purchased the S&T 2005 with the GPS that
was included I have found that that particular one will actually function
inside the house somewhat erratically mind you. Then one day I forgot to
place the unit on the dash and left it in the drawer and it worked just fine
so now that is where it stays instead of cluttering up the dash. In
conclusion if you have a none metal roof it should work inside your Class C.
Wade
 
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