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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2005Motorhome diesel upgrade questions
Hi..first time posting in this newsgroup. I few months ago I bought a 26' Country Cruiser class C motorhome built on a 1979 Chevy Van G30 chassis. It has 112,000 original kilometers on it, or about 70,000 miles and it's in GREAT condition! It has a 400CID engine that's not really all that great for power in this application. It runs great on level ground with decent passing power [for a 5 ton vehicle] but really loses its breath here on the foothills of Alberta, Canada. All the usual tune-up items have been done but no engine upgrades. For my question...is it worthwhile to find a diesel out of a GM/Chevy truck and do a swap? My preferred way of doing such a swap [I've done some in the past] is to purchase a donor vehicle. Something that runs good but is rusted out or an insurance write-off. Here in Alberta diesel trucks are as common as fleas on a dog. I imagine that a diesel should solve my power problems plus improve fuel economy, or would it? Would such a swap be much more difficult that the usual gas engine swaps? Does placing the diesel in a van add more problems? What would be the best diesel to search for? Any advice/suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. Any web links would be helpful, if any exist. Thanx in advance.  SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. > Hi..first time posting in this newsgroup. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Thanx in advance. You'll be faced with a few "minor" problems: 1. The gearing in the van chassis may be wrong for a diesel due to the significant difference in operating engine speeds - the gas engine will turn almost twice the speed of the diesel - and may be nowhere strong enough to handle the extra torque of a modern diesel. You'd have to change out the entire drive train, including the controlling computer(s). 2. You'd have to change out the fuel system (tank, pump, line) to insure that no trace of gasoline remained. A simpler alternative would be to put a "mild" supercharger or a turbocharger on the existing engine to eliminate the altitude issues IF, that is, the existing engine is fuel-injected. (A carbureted engine can be retrofitted with a fuel-injection system and THEN be equipped with either a supercharger or a turbocharger.) If you REALLY want more power, use a Corvette with an LT1 engine as the donor vehicle. <G> >> Hi..first time posting in this newsgroup. >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >handle the extra torque of a modern diesel. You'd have to change out the >entire drive train, including the controlling computer(s). Well..it is a truck rear end where 454s were optional. Diesels didn't have any computers until about 1993. Diesels develop their torque quite low so and overdrive tranny would help. >2. You'd have to change out the fuel system (tank, pump, line) to insure >that no trace of gasoline remained. Relatively easy. >A simpler alternative would be to put a "mild" supercharger or a >turbocharger on the existing engine to eliminate the altitude issues IF, >that is, the existing engine is fuel-injected. (A carbureted engine can be >retrofitted with a fuel-injection system and THEN be equipped with either a >supercharger or a turbocharger.) It's a 1979, carburetor. Clearance issues come into play with a blower, not much room under that doghouse. Mind you, other common performance add-ons have crossed my mind. Old standard goodies, such as headers and performance mufflers, high performance intake manifold such as an Edelbrock Performer, different carburetor like maybe a Carter Thermoquad [my personal favorite]. Performance add-on for my existing engine would be much easier. >If you REALLY want more power, use a Corvette with an LT1 engine as the >donor vehicle. <G> Nice thought. But seriously, not really ideal for a truck application. Bet it would sound good! SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. "Opus-" <jbuchy@telus.net> wrote regarding a Corvette powerplant: > Nice thought. But seriously, not really ideal for a truck application. > Bet it would sound good! Saw a flat bottom custom made aluminum airboat once with a fuel injected Corvette engine. Yes, it sounded nice. Ran like a striped a.s ape, too. Steve >>> Hi..first time posting in this newsgroup. >>> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >Nice thought. But seriously, not really ideal for a truck application. >Bet it would sound good! The diesels that you could find that don't have the computer won't have as much power as the gas engine you have. Up until the very late 90's the GMC diesel for the 3500 class vehicles was grossly under powered. A transplant of a 454 would likely be cheaper, and gain you much more horsepower. SignatureFrank Tabor >>>> Hi..first time posting in this newsgroup. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >90's the GMC diesel for the 3500 class vehicles was grossly under >powered. So it seem that the basic consensus is, don't bother unless I can score a Duramax. >A transplant of a 454 would likely be cheaper, and gain you much more >horsepower. 454s are starting to get scarce, but I am sure it would probably be an easier swap. SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. > Hi..first time posting in this newsgroup. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Thanx in advance. Will the frame in that motorhome handle the added weight of a diesel? Front axle weight rating in particular? Greg >> Hi..first time posting in this newsgroup. >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >Will the frame in that motorhome handle the added weight of a diesel? Front >axle weight rating in particular? Well, the frame of an ordinary half-ton can support a diesel so it should be ok. But other factors seem to be coming into play anyway. SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. I see where Opus- <jbuchy@telus.net> contributed: >For my question...is it worthwhile to find a diesel out of a GM/Chevy >truck and do a swap? In a word, no. In more words from someone who's done several engine swaps going back 50+ years, don't even think about it unless you just love doing the work and don't care if it doesn't get you any more power. And early GM p/u diesels are notoriously troublesome. I note you also considered add-on stuff - hot rod pipes, etc. It is true that a rig that old would get some benefit from duals, but the bottom line is that you'll pay dearly and have little to show for your work. You'd be WAY batter off to find a newer. fuel-injected MH. There are untold thousands of them killing grass around the continent, many available for no more than you'll pay for a diesel p/u with a good engine. IMO Will Sill The list of subjects I care about is shrinking steadily. Items missing from that list include but are not limited to: - The views of moronic and anti-American nut cases - Terminally boring and/or thoughtless commentaries. >I see where Opus- <jbuchy@telus.net> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >work and don't care if it doesn't get you any more power. And early >GM p/u diesels are notoriously troublesome. The work doesn't bother me, but I don't want to do it all for nothing. >I note you also considered add-on stuff - hot rod pipes, etc. It is >true that a rig that old would get some benefit from duals, but the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >many available for no more than you'll pay for a diesel p/u with a >good engine. Way way out of my price range. We did a LOT of shopping for older used rigs. That add-on stuff for a Chevy engine is really quite cheap. eBay is my friend ;-) SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. > Hi..first time posting in this newsgroup. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > For my question...is it worthwhile to find a diesel out of a GM/Chevy > truck and do a swap? Not really- the 6.2 diesel was not a very good engine, the 6.5 got to be pretty good (read reliable), but was still way down on power. AFAIK, these were the only diesels which were offered in the GM G30 chassis- and in that time frame, the big block gasser was not an option. You should be able to make quite a bit more power from the 400, though, without too much work, or find a late model 5.7 donor vehicle, and install engine, computer and transmission. Or.. if you are *real* adventurous, cram a 5.9 Cummins in there <g>. SignatureChris Bryant http://bryantrv.com >> Hi..first time posting in this newsgroup. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >were the only diesels which were offered in the GM G30 chassis- and in >that time frame, the big block gasser was not an option. Point taken. But I have seen a few GM based class C units with big block engines in those years. Just found a 79 Corsair 28' class C in the local paper, with a 454. Found a few more just a few minutes ago. >You should be able to make quite a bit more power from the 400, though, >without too much work, or find a late model 5.7 donor vehicle, and install >engine, computer and transmission. Would a 5.7 have enough power? >Or.. if you are *real* adventurous, cram a 5.9 Cummins in there <g>. That would be sweet! SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. >I imagine that a diesel should solve my power problems plus improve >fuel economy, or would it? Would such a swap be much more difficult [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Any advice/suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. Any web links >would be helpful, if any exist. It seems to me there is more to this than mearly swapping engines. I would look at selling this rig. Then take that money plus the cost of an engine swap and get a different rig. Another thought is an over/under transmission. My last rig had one and it gave me a choice of 6 gears instead on 3. It was still underpowered but took the hills better than if it hadn't had it. Jon ==================================================== Jon Griffin SKP 75680 FMCA F257439 apply ROT13 to my address Vnz@eniatvqvbgf.arg ==================================================== >>I imagine that a diesel should solve my power problems plus improve >>fuel economy, or would it? Would such a swap be much more difficult [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >would look at selling this rig. Then take that money plus the cost of >an engine swap and get a different rig. That would gain me nothing really. The cost of an engine swap is relatively small, at least here in Alberta with acres of used diesel trucks. A used diesel rig would still be way out of my budget. >Another thought is an over/under transmission. My last rig had one >and it gave me a choice of 6 gears instead on 3. It was still >underpowered but took the hills better than if it hadn't had it. That sounds interesting...tell me more :-) SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. >>Another thought is an over/under transmission. My last rig had one >>and it gave me a choice of 6 gears instead on 3. It was still >>underpowered but took the hills better than if it hadn't had it. > >That sounds interesting...tell me more :-) Try http://www.gearvendors.com/ . BTW, I"m spending the summer bouncing around the Airdrie, Sundre, Big Valley area in AB. Are you anywhere around that area? Jon ==================================================== Jon Griffin SKP 75680 FMCA F257439 apply ROT13 to my address Vnz@eniatvqvbgf.arg ==================================================== >>>Another thought is an over/under transmission. My last rig had one >>>and it gave me a choice of 6 gears instead on 3. It was still [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >BTW, I"m spending the summer bouncing around the Airdrie, Sundre, Big >Valley area in AB. Are you anywhere around that area? You'll be closer to Calgary. I live in Edmonton. Heading to Banff? SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. >>BTW, I"m spending the summer bouncing around the Airdrie, Sundre, Big >>Valley area in AB. Are you anywhere around that area? > >You'll be closer to Calgary. I live in Edmonton. Heading to Banff? Only to pass thru. We are going to the Vancouver area for a couple of weeks. Leaving tomorrow. Jon ==================================================== Jon Griffin SKP 75680 FMCA F257439 apply ROT13 to my address Vnz@eniatvqvbgf.arg ==================================================== I would like to extent my gratitude for all of the advice I have been given. Combined with my research, I have concluded that a diesel upgrade would be basically useless unless I can get a steal of a deal on a very late model Duramax diesel. It seem that a later model, more powerful gasoline engine would be a better choice. As I said in my first post, I would probably look for a "write-off" at an insurance company or impound auction. While I could possibly find a Duramax diesel, even a "write-off" would sell for a pretty high price. More common gasoline models often sell surprisingly cheap. Installing computers and associated wiring needed for newer engines does not scare me. In fact, I rather enjoy that sort of thing. One interesting suggestion I received was to lift up the coach and drive the chassis out from under it and back in a newer chassis that's equipped the way I like. [This reminds me of my younger days when I worked at a truck box manufacturer. We used to make truck containers for bolting onto cutaway van chassis. The mounting process was the easiest part of the whole assembly.] It was suggested that a used ambulance would be ideal, assuming it has the weight capacity and wheelbase. Around here, they are usually Fords with 460 gas or Navistar diesel engines. Sounds interesting :-) SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. |
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