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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2005Onan generator fried?
I have an Onan Marquis 7000 generator approx 6 years old with 6000 hrs. Last week it shut off under very light load and would not come back on. Turns out it had tripped the breaker on the line fromn the battery, every time you press start button, the generator clicks and it trips the breaker again. I thought it might be the starter gone bad and trying to draw too much current, but that would not explain why it shut off while runnnig. I took it into a shop, the guy there looked at it for 5 minutes and said: it won't turn over - the generator is fried, you need a new one. - $6000 please. I am kinda sceptical since he looked at it so quickly and it sounds more like an electrical issue to me since it keeps tripping the breaker. I intend to get a second opinion if I can find another decent shop around here. Anyone have any thoughts on what else it could be? I was thinking of selling it in a few months and really do not want to drop $6K on a new generator.... Thanks S. >I have an Onan Marquis 7000 generator approx 6 years old with 6000 hrs. > Last week it shut off under very light load and would not come back on. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > S. Was this at an Onan repair point? If not, find one at http://www.onan.com/onan/service/serviceHome.jsp and take it there. <G> It sounds like someone was more interested in selling you an entire new genset rather than installing a new starter or other part. <G> I see where "RAM^3" <S31924.nospam@netscape.net> contributed: >It sounds like someone was more interested in selling you an entire new >genset rather than installing a new starter or other part. <G> Probably true but if the gen stopped w/out warning while running, the starter is the last thing I'd suspect. Hate to suggest it, but if it ran low on oil and seized. . . . Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill I had thought about that, but oil has been changed regularly, last time was about 100 hours ago.... if it was a seized engine, would that trip the breaker when you tried to start it? >I see where "RAM^3" <S31924.nospam@netscape.net> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Will Sill > The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Quite true! Given the way that Onans are built, however, even a total engine replacement shouldn't be quite *that* much. <g> If the engine had siezed, it *shouldn't* be that big of a project to ream the cylinders to, say, .030" over and install new rings and, if necessary, a new oil pump. Onan engines are incredibly durable *and* repairable. <G> FWIW, the Onan gensets that Schlumberger used in the 1950's had 2-cylinder engines that had, also, been used to power WW2 target drones. Those motors were about 4 times the size of the current motors with cylinder "jugs" that were somewhat larger than those on a Harley-Davidson. Big. No this was an independent auto electric repair shop I had recommended by a friend. I had used the local Onan place a few times, but they seemed to overcharge me for everything.....eg. they tried to bill me 4 hours labor when they only had the thing for 3.... I really don't want to give it to them and spend another 4 hours on labor just to find out I need a new generator after all > No this was an independent auto electric repair shop I had recommended > by a friend. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I really don't want to give it to them and spend another 4 hours on > labor just to find out I need a new generator after all Is this or a very similar generator used for other apps? If so try other newsgroups. i.e. alt.home.repair. Lou > No this was an independent auto electric repair shop I had recommended > by a friend. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I really don't want to give it to them and spend another 4 hours on > labor just to find out I need a new generator after all Bite the bullet and take it to the Onan shop - they can fix it. [They can *also* get the parts: Onan parts are like Jeep parts in that there's very few "generic" parts that will work on them. They're also a tad expen$ive.] Your "independent auto electric repair shop" can't fix it - otherwise they wouldn't have tried to sell you a new one. Most places charge "by the book": if the book says that it'll take 4 hours for an average person to fix something then they'll charge for 4 hours whether it took 3 or 5. >> No this was an independent auto electric repair shop I had recommended >> by a friend. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >for an average person to fix something then they'll charge for 4 hours >whether it took 3 or 5. I second that. I also speak with some authority as I have 25 years experience as a mechanic currently employed at an Onan dealer in Edmonton. You'd be surprised at how many auto mechanics I have met that don't have a toe-holds grasp of what to do on a small engine. Just by saying "It's fried, you need a new one", the dude who checked it demonstrates my point. Onan engines are extremely rugged. Even if you run it out of oil, the odds are in favor of it being fixable. Do yourself a favor and remove the blower housing [the shroud around the flywheel] and try to turn the flywheel by hand. If it's not seized, it should turn with a little effort. If not, try your hardest to turn it [if you can]. If you can get it to just turn a wee bit, that is a good sign. Worst case? You can have a "short block assembly" installed. That is a new engine block with all internal moving parts factory installed. You reuse your flywheel, starter, ignition, carburetor, shrouds, etc. It's a lot cheaper than a new generator or a new engine. However, the increased labour can sometimes, depending on the model, bring the total price up close to the cost of a complete new engine. Either way, I highly doubt that you need a complete new generator. Hope this helps.  SignatureOpus62@gmail.com (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94) "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim. Easy, take it to a authorized Onan service center. When you find out what is actually wrong with it then you can make an informed decision. If it is trash, shop around for a used unit... You can find them on E-Bay occasionally. >I have an Onan Marquis 7000 generator approx 6 years old with 6000 hrs. > Last week it shut off under very light load and would not come back on. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > S. >I have an Onan Marquis 7000 generator approx 6 years old with 6000 hrs. > Last week it shut off under very light load and would not come back on. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > S. Six years and 6000 hours - wow, good to finally see someone who USES the genset! Seriously, though - I suspect that it's fixable, and for a LOT less than a new genset. First thing to do is see if it will turn. Using a 3/8" hex bit or Allen wrench, try to turn it by turning the rotor thrubolt clockwise (it's located in the middle of the right-hand end of the generator housing). If it will turn, then the engine isn't seized up, the generator bearing hasn't worn out and seized, the windings aren't fried to the point that plastic from the insulation is gumming things up, etc. and your problem may be nothing more than the starter solenoid, the wire from it to the starter, or the starter itself. If it won't turn with the Allen wrench, the first thing I would do is remove the starter and try again (and take a good look at the starter while you have it out..). The one time I ran into something similar, it turned out that the starter drive had jammed and not disengaged from the flywheel - so after the genset started, the starter was driven by the genset at about 8x its normal speed. Didn't take too long until the armature of the starter began to shed windings, at which point it jammed and brought -everything- to a screeching halt (since the drive gear was still engaged with the flywheel, it made a VERY effective brake!). Unless access to the genset is extremely poor, it shouldn't take a good technician much more than an hour to figure out what probably happened and give you an estimate of what it will take to repair. Or, if you're comfortable using tools and have a voltmeter, let me know what model and spec your genset is and I'll try to talk you through it. Alan Thats the problem, access to the genset is very poor. Its on a dog grooming van (Dodge Ram 3500) rather than an RV. Its housed in a steel box bolted to the underside of the van where the spare tire used to be. The box has a drop down flap on the front to give you access for oil changes etc. but everything else is obstructed. To remove it you have to jack up the rear of the van, slide a jack under the generator housing and unbolt it all. I do not have the tools for this. Thats about an hour or so labor before anyone starts to look at it. Still from what you are all saying it may be worth it. I just don't want to spend 5 or 6 hours labor just to find out I need a new one anyway.... > Thats the problem, access to the genset is very poor. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I just don't want to spend 5 or 6 hours labor just to find out I need a > new one anyway.... If it come down to the engine needing rebuilt or replaced. www.smallenginewarehouse.com Just took a look and they still have (8) 16hp engines for genset application. Price $650. Sounds like a buy to me. Mickey >> Thats the problem, access to the genset is very poor. >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Mickey Mickey, Only problem with that is that the pictured engine is for an early Emerald (no later than spec F, as it has point-type ignition), while his genset is an approx 1999 Marquis 7000 - bigger displacement engine with a different block, mount points, etc. Not saying you couldn't assemble something that would run and produce power - but the engine would limit you to 4kw or so - and there would be a lot of hassles on the way to that point. On the other hand, for someone with an Emerald, it could be a pretty good starting point... Alan > Mickey, > Only problem with that is that the pictured engine is for an early [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Alan Wasn't sure which engine OP had in their genset but knowing the engine is out of production, anyone that could make use of same, these engines seems to be a decent buy. My genset is still running well since you helped me several yrs ago (bad v-reg). I'm still in your debt for the help you gave. Mickey > My genset is still running well since you helped me several yrs ago (bad > v-reg). I'm still in your debt for the help you gave. Ya. Me too. Really all Genset questions should only have responses by Alan, unless he doesn't post for a few days. He knows his stuff. > Thats the problem, access to the genset is very poor. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I just don't want to spend 5 or 6 hours labor just to find out I need a > new one anyway.... I've been thinking about this since your previous post, and I can't think of a single-point failure that would cause the reported symptoms that would take more than 1-2 hours to diagnose - most of them much less. So (counting time to drop the box), you're looking at 1-3 hours to find out what's wrong, and get an estimate on the cost to repair. Just out of curiosity, has the genset ever been decarboned (either by removing the heads and scraping off the carbon, or by running carbon cleaner thru the carburetor?) If not, with 6000 hrs on it, it may be nothing more than piston + carbon buildup jammed against cylinder head + carbon buildup. Some points to ponder: That box is going to have to be dropped, whether you are fixing the genset inside it or simply clearing the way for installing something new - so you shouldn't count that time against the genset repair. Onan no longer makes that genset (the current Marquis is a totally different genset), so replacing it is going to involve much more than just buying a duplicate and bolting it in place (unless you find a good used Marquis out of an rv that's been in an accident). Unless -everything- on the genset is worn out/broken, it should be fixable for less than the cost of any current equivalent that -might- be made to fit - with the advantage that you know that it -does- fit. Alan > I took it into a shop, the guy there looked at it for 5 minutes and > said: it won't turn over - the generator is fried, you need a new one. > - $6000 please. I've got it! Buy my class C I have for sale for $7000 and just convert it to your purpose. However it's got a low hours 4kw Onan genset. |
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