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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2005Propane vs Gas vs Diesel?
Diesel is 2.29 per gallon, 87 Octane gasoline is 2.12 per gallon, Propane is about 1.60. My questions are: 1. Would a gas engine that is converted to Propane get the same milage? Better or worse? 2. Do you think we may see more Propane conversions? 3. If Propane get approx. the same milage, but burns cleaner (engine lasts longer), what is your opinion on conversion (cleaner air, etc.)? 4. Can diesels be converted? TIA Hank <~~~ thinks too much :-) > Diesel is 2.29 per gallon, 87 Octane gasoline is 2.12 per gallon, > Propane is about 1.60. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Hank <~~~ thinks too much :-) 35 years ago my dad went to a GM training course in Cincinnati when people were just starting to talk about the great fuel mileage available with diesel engines. At that time, if I remember correctly gas was about 49-50 cents a gallon and diesel was about .15. A GM engineer there said something pretty prophetic - "If you think diesel will always remain a third the price of gas, forget it. The more diesels we build, the more popular diesel becomes, the more expensive it will get." I suspect he'd say the same today about propane. JH >Diesel is 2.29 per gallon, 87 Octane gasoline is 2.12 per gallon, >Propane is about 1.60. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Hank <~~~ thinks too much :-) Hank, First, if you can buy propane at $1.60/gal, consider yourself very fortunate. In most places it is much more. Someone recently reported on this forum of having to pay $3.50/gal. 1. Propane has the least energy of the three fuels you mention, therefore gets the least mileage. 2. No 3. N/A 4. Not successfully. They tried to do that with transit buses and found it wasn't effective. Instead went to a new design. George > Diesel is 2.29 per gallon, 87 Octane gasoline is 2.12 per gallon, > Propane is about 1.60. Propane, when used as a vehicle fuel, is subject to the same taxes as gasoline and diesel. This would raise the price to ~$2.05 or more. > My questions are: > > 1. Would a gas engine that is converted to Propane get the same milage? No > Better or worse? Worse. An LP genset will use noticeably more fuel than a gasoline unit running the same engine on gasoline. (That's *why* I insisted on a gas unit for our 5er.) > 2. Do you think we may see more Propane conversions? Cars and trucks have been set up to run on Propane for over a half century. If you want to run yours on Propane just contact a full-service Propane dealer. (He's, probably, already running *his* cars on it.) > 3. If Propane get approx. the same milage, but burns cleaner (engine > lasts longer), what is your opinion on conversion (cleaner air, etc.)? As stated above, the mileage is worse. It *does* burn cleaner, though, to the point that a propane-fuelled motor can be run *inside* a building without fear of asphyxiating the inhabitants. (Forklifts, floor polishers, and Zamboni machines are examples.) > 4. Can diesels be converted? No > TIA > > Hank <~~~ thinks too much :-) > > Diesel is 2.29 per gallon, 87 Octane gasoline is 2.12 per gallon, > > Propane is about 1.60. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Worse. Approximate BTU per gallon which roughly translates to what kind of mileage they might give: Propane: 91500 Gasoline: 120000 Diesel: 130000 >> 2. Do you think we may see more Propane conversions? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you want to run yours on Propane just contact a full-service Propane > dealer. (He's, probably, already running *his* cars on it.) And ask the dealer how many other people he knows running private propane vehicles. In my couple of years at my uncle's Blue Flame, I never filled any private vehicles but his. The only vehicles I filled were my propane tank delivery pickup, a bread truck, 2 busses, and a couple of misc. other commercial vehicles. I never filled an RV for it's engine fuel. (other than my uncle's of course). >>> 2. Do you think we may see more Propane conversions? >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > commercial vehicles. I never filled an RV for it's engine fuel. (other > than my uncle's of course). LOL! A number of cities are now going to LPG/LNG for their busses and municipal vehicles in an effort to please the EPA. One problem shared by these vehicles with such "alternative fuelled" ones as use Hydrogen, etc., is fuel availability. Personally, I'm happy with the Cummins Diesel in my dooley! <G> > Diesel is 2.29 per gallon, 87 Octane gasoline is 2.12 per gallon, > Propane is about 1.60. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Hank <~~~ thinks too much :-) Since you are looking at alternatives, consider starting and stopping your engine with diesel, yet use a different type of fuel oil when driving. While I have never seen an RV with his setup, there are cars, pickups, SUVs, and even delivery trucks running it. http://www.greasecar.com/ and http://www.greasel.com I am not in the position to do either, but thought the idea interesting. > Since you are looking at alternatives, consider starting and stopping your > engine with diesel, yet use a different type of fuel oil when driving. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I am not in the position to do either, but thought the idea interesting. About 6 years ago, when I was interviewing at Navistar (International Harvester) in Ft. Wayne, they showed me a constant RPM diesel engine with electric drive chassis. I don't know if it has ever been marketed yet but that would be a good way to go. It was a large enough chassis for at least a 35' Class A. I think it's Volvo that's experimenting with a diesel/electric delivery truck for Europe that shuts down the engine when in cities. It looked to be around 25 to 30' and had duallies in the rear and had 6 wheel steer for getting around the tight corners in European cities and could also 'crab' for parking. Looked like it would make a great RV chassis. > About 6 years ago, when I was interviewing at Navistar (International > Harvester) in Ft. Wayne, they showed me a constant RPM diesel engine with > electric drive chassis. I don't know if it has ever been marketed yet but > that would be a good way to go. Not exactly new technology: Diesel locomotives have always been like that as have Diesel submarines. FWIW, US Fleet Submarines in WW2 used 4 diesel engines originally designed for locomotives. > My questions are: > > 1. Would a gas engine that is converted to Propane get the same milage? > Better or worse? Sorry. That one I don't know. > 2. Do you think we may see more Propane conversions? Definitely not. > 3. If Propane get approx. the same milage, but burns cleaner (engine > lasts longer), what is your opinion on conversion (cleaner air, etc.)? Don't do it. My uncle owned a Blue Flame propane business for many years and I worked there for a while years ago. He told me that as a propane powered vehicle aged, it runs worse and worse. He converted most of his vehicles himself, including his 4 Class A's he had over the years, but since he got propane at wholesale, and he replaced vehicles often, it worked out for him. I drove a propane powered pickup of his for my job there, and it ran like crap. It was about 5 years old with a Chevy 454 in it. This was also proven to me by the local school system. They had all gas busses. They decided to make a test of 6 new busses to figure out what would be the best ones to buy from then on. They bought 4 gas busses and had 2 converted to propane and bought 2 diesels. The propane ones cost them the most in upkeep. Now they have all diesels. > 4. Can diesels be converted? Yes, by an engine change. :) |
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