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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2005

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More on my five tire blowouts

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frank907 - 05 Aug 2005 06:15 GMT
Well, my fifth blowout turned out to be from a tiny puncture hole found by
one of Bridgestones top tire men here in southern Calif.  Three other
experts were all looking at the damaged side and not the other side where a
tiny hole was found. There were scuff marks on the other dual tire proving
that an object got between the tires and punctured one (with 1090 miles on
it) and let the air out slowly.  Now I am starting to believe it is just my
luck to have five tires blow out in 48,000 miles at the same location on the
RV!! I have been trying to solve this for 47,000 miles to no avail. Once
again, Ford would not help because Fleetwood put the body on their chassis.
Fleetwood, after advising me to take it to their award winning distributor
here for evaluation, told them not to touch it because it was out of
warrantee. And, after finding the elusive tire puncture, the Bridgestone man
would not even come to see the RV because he did not want to get involved.
Now, again, I hope to get help here.

Briefly, after blowing out three of the outer passenger side 225/75 tires on
my 1999 Tioga 31SL I changed to 235/85 type E tires. There was ample room
for these and the speedo gear was changed to indicate right. I done this
hopefully to have safer tires than the minimum 225s Firestones put on by
Fleetwood. Admittedly, I probably was overloaded at times with the 225s as
EVERYONE always are but I made it a point to be well below max weight with
the 235s. But I still blew out two but the last one was not a blowout. I
still believe that the puncture was possible because the tire was very hard
due to increased air pressure (89+ lbs) and the hole was two inches above
the road surface. Something got wedged in the bulge area of the tires at the
road surface and done this in one rev and was thrown away.  But 5 tires at
the same place!!!

Everything the group mentioned before has been done or checked. That side
weighs 140 lbs more than the driver side because of the coach batteries.
(Wonder why Fleetwood moved these batteries up front on later models? And
changed to Michelin 225/75 tires? And made the rear wheel wells a little
larger?) I am not overloaded and drive in the low 60s and on state highways
mostly and not in hot weather. All tires were under two years old and at 78
lbs cold. Stronger shocks are on the coach to reduce side swaying.  Brakes
are excellent and the bearings do not over heat. The tail pipe is far enough
from the rear tires. But something is causing the passenger side to increase
in air pressure. I measured every 50 miles on Highway 10 and had 82 on the
driver side and 89 on the passenger side after 150 miles!! Then 20 miles
later I had the flat.

I do not want to go back down to the 225/75 tires (Michelin of course).
Makes me sick to think that RV manufactures think so little of their
customers' safety to put minimum load tires on an $80,000 RV. Even with the
good Michelin tires I would be 20 lbs below the tire max wt on the passenger
side and 160 lbs on the driver side. If I had a dog with us and he went to
look out the rear pass side window, the tires would be overloaded!! I plan
to stay with the 235/85 tires but not to take advantage of the extra load I
could carry. These four rear tires weigh 20 lbs more but will support 1412
lbs more, not the 180 lbs more that the Michelin 225 will support. They will
not have the bulge near the road surface and I could run them at a little
lower air pressure for a smoother ride. If I run at 75 lbs and even if the
pressure rises 10 lbs I would not have the results I was having before. Did
I mention my increased mpg with the higher fuel prices these days? With
these tires I have picked up 2 mpg and that helps. I may be the only one
around whos RV lives up to the lies told by some salesmen that we could get
9-10 mpg (I was told this). I have gotten 9.2 so far and could do even
better on short trips. So I hope this will solve the problem without ever
knowing the cause of the problem and we can go on our trips without
wondering when the tire will blow or wearing my jack out. Has anyone ever
heard of anything like this?
JR - 05 Aug 2005 14:30 GMT
I had 4 blowouts with 235 Michelins.  All were sidewall.  I weigh each tire
and ALWAYS check pressure cold before starting.  I run 10psi above chart
pressure as recommended by Michelin service.  I removed the remaining two
even though they were less than five years old and under 40000 mi..  Think
it was a manufacturing defect on the batch.  None of the replacements have
given a problem.  I would now never drive without Howard Power Centering
System.  It is well worth the high cost. Two of the four were front and the
coach never even tended to stear to the side.  I had full control.  I
purchased the power centering to reduce the effect of side winds and road
slant.  It may have saved us twice from a more drastic problem.  The last
front blowout also bent the rim.  The rear blowouts were inside duals, which
the dealer said was the most common location (90%) in the back.

> Well, my fifth blowout turned out to be from a tiny puncture hole found by
> one of Bridgestones top tire men here in southern Calif.  Three other
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> wondering when the tire will blow or wearing my jack out. Has anyone ever
> heard of anything like this?
frank907 - 08 Aug 2005 05:23 GMT
I am hoping to get some feedback for or against my choice to
permanently
change to the 235/85 tires before I reshape the wheel wells as
Fleetwood has
done in newer units. And would this tire change make it difficult to sell
the RV some day
or
would it make it better because of the safety and fuel improvement?

Frank907
Tom  J - 08 Aug 2005 16:35 GMT
>I am hoping to get some feedback for or against my choice to
> permanently
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> or
> would it make it better because of the safety and fuel improvement?

I have 1 question. Did you buy the RV to use and enjoy, or did you buy
it to sell?  Your answer is "your answer". BTW, there are smaller rims
and up to 12 ply rated tires that will fit without modification of the
wheel well. Don't even think of putting the tires on without changing
the rims too. Ask at commercial trailer locations - the ones that sell
low boy Bobcat Haulers and such.
Signature

Tom J
http://www.fleetwoodclub.org/

frank907 - 09 Aug 2005 04:36 GMT
We brought the RV to enjoy it and the 48,000 miles so far but I would not
want to make changes that would cause not to ever be saleable. I got 20 more
years of RV'n left and this may not be my last one.
Tom J <tomj_ga@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:SYKJe.5163$ns.1309@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...

> >I am hoping to get some feedback for or against my choice to
> > permanently
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I have 1 question. Did you buy the RV to use and enjoy, or did you buy
> it to sell?  Your answer is "your answer".

We brought the RV to enjoy it and the 48,000 miles so far but I would not
want to make changes that would cause not to ever be saleable. I got 20 more
years of RV'n left and this may not be my last one.

> BTW, there are smaller rims
> and up to 12 ply rated tires that will fit without modification of the
> wheel well. Don't even think of putting the tires on without changing
> the rims too. Ask at commercial trailer locations - the ones that sell
> low boy Bobcat Haulers and such.

Why change the rims? No difference between 225/75  16" and 235/85  16". They
been on the RV for 20,000+ so far. Must keep the same wheel diameter to keep
the mpg I have gained. Smaller rims would reduce this from what I had before
the change not to mention the added costs.

Frank
> --
> Tom J
> http://www.fleetwoodclub.org/
Will Sill - 09 Aug 2005 13:34 GMT
I see where "frank907" <frank907@sbcglobal.net> contributed:

>We brought the RV to enjoy it and the 48,000 miles so far but I would not
>want to make changes that would cause not to ever be saleable.

To each his/her own.  If I need to drill a hole in MY rv, I do it.
Function for MY purposes trumps my concern for some future bargain
hunter looking for an excuse to lower his offer.

Now if I were coddling a classic in hopes of striking it rich at
Barret-Jackson. . . .

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Tom  J - 09 Aug 2005 20:47 GMT
> Why change the rims? No difference between 225/75  16" and 235/85
> 16". They
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> had before
> the change not to mention the added costs.

There is a difference in the load carrying & air pressure capacity of
rims. If you want to risk life and limb, air you those OEM rims to the
pressure for high load tires!! IT'S DANGEROUS TO DO SO.

Tom J
who can't believe some think all rims the same size meet the same
standards
Will Sill - 09 Aug 2005 22:07 GMT
I see where "Tom  J" <tomj_ga@despammed.com> quoted "frank907"
saying:

>> Why change the rims? No difference between 225/75  16" and 235/85
>> 16". They
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> had before
>> the change not to mention the added costs.

Incorrect (or at least not necessarily true) in several respects.
There IS a difference between the sizes, and wheel diameter does NOT
control final drive ratio - rolling radius is the issue.

But TJ sez:

>There is a difference in the load carrying & air pressure capacity of
>rims. If you want to risk life and limb, air you those OEM rims to the
>pressure for high load tires!! IT'S DANGEROUS TO DO SO.

That may well be true, and it may also be that axle rating is an
important issue.  I've missed much of this thread, but some trailer
axles are so marginal they bend so much they ruin tires quickly.

I'd be concerned that the OP is making expensive changes that won't
help.

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
frank907 - 10 Aug 2005 04:20 GMT
The rims that Ford put on the chassis are rated at 80 psi cold and I do not
exceed this. I have 192,000 miles travel time behind me (48,000 x rims),
about the distance from here to the moon!! I keep the front rims lower and
don't worry anymore about the rears. Had a lot of blowout practice, even in
Dallas,Texas 5 PM freeway traffic.

Frank

Tom J <tomj_ga@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:BL7Ke.3063$RZ2.609@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

> There is a difference in the load carrying & air pressure capacity of
> rims. If you want to risk life and limb, air you those OEM rims to the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> who can't believe some think all rims the same size meet the same
> standards
smile4camera@bellsouth.net - 09 Aug 2005 00:03 GMT
> I am hoping to get some feedback for or against my choice to
> permanently
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Frank907

What is the rear GAWR for your rig?
What are the corner weights?

I suspect there's something wrong with that tire position.. the tire
pressure difference from side to side (when hot) seems high. Consider a
remote monitoring tire pressure system.

I remember something about the body not being mounted centered on the
frame.. I'd also see about having the alignment checked, if you haven't
done so already.

Jim
frank907 - 09 Aug 2005 04:47 GMT
>  What is the rear GAWR for your rig?

Don't have the figure with me now but it is more than the 9700 lbs on the
rear axle now.

>  What are the corner weights?

Pass side was 4920 lbs and driver side was 4780 lbs. Diff is the battery wt
of 140 lbs.

>  I suspect there's something wrong with that tire position.. the tire
> pressure difference from side to side (when hot) seems high. Consider a
> remote monitoring tire pressure system.

I once checked it every 50 miles for 150 miles and know that it rises. Just
don't know why and that is what I am trying to figure out. 8-9 lbs rise does
seem alot in 150 miles.

>  I remember something about the body not being mounted centered on the
> frame.. I'd also see about having the alignment checked, if you haven't
> done so already.

Alignment is perfect and the rear wheels seem to track the front ones fine.
My body is .75 inch to the left of center but I have seen this on other RVs
like mine.

Frank

>  Jim
smile4camera@bellsouth.net - 10 Aug 2005 02:13 GMT
> >  What is the rear GAWR for your rig?
>
> Don't have the figure with me now but it is more than the 9700 lbs on the
> rear axle now.

I know yours is a 99, but the 2000 Tioga 31' (class C) rear GAWR is
9450 lbs.
Don't know for sure what your rig is...

> >  What are the corner weights?
>
> Pass side was 4920 lbs and driver side was 4780 lbs. Diff is the battery wt
> of 140 lbs.

This shouldn't have overloaded a load range E 225/75-16... but I don't
think your problem is with the tires overloaded.. I think it's
something else.

> >  I suspect there's something wrong with that tire position.. the tire
> > pressure difference from side to side (when hot) seems high. Consider a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> don't know why and that is what I am trying to figure out. 8-9 lbs rise does
> seem alot in 150 miles.

What I'd be looking for is all four rear tire pressures, rate of
change and differences. I'd also be wanting to take tire temps.. is the
problem with the right duals, or just the right outside?.. How do all
four rear tires compare with each other? I'd want more information to
try to fix the problem, and a onboard monitoring system isn't that much
money.

Jim
frank907 - 10 Aug 2005 05:56 GMT
> > >  What is the rear GAWR for your rig?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> 9450 lbs.
>  Don't know for sure what your rig is...

Just looked it up and my GAWR is 9450 like you said. Now this brings up a
new problem. I suspected that the scale I weighed at was off because I did
not believe my 9700 rear weight on an almost empty RV. I know I added about
70 lbs of weight in the rear and the 4 bigger tires added about 24 lbs for a
total of 94 lbs. Total empty rear weight on the new RV was 8860 so it should
only be 8954. Why 746 lbs more? But the 225 tires would support 9880 and my
235 tire will support 11,112 so I am okay; except for what the axle is rated
to support. NOTE: I have no intentions of carrying more weight, just want
tires that will be more conservative than the factories 225s.

> > >  What are the corner weights?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> think your problem is with the tires overloaded.. I think it's
> something else.

I would only have 20 lbs to spare with the 225 tires, but 1412 more with the
235s. Yes, the problem is something else unless they all were just REAL
unfortunate blowouts. But at least four in the same place?

> > >  I suspect there's something wrong with that tire position.. the tire
> > > pressure difference from side to side (when hot) seems high. Consider a
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> try to fix the problem, and a onboard monitoring system isn't that much
> money.

I did mention that I have done this at 50 mile increments and noticed no
temp increase on parts or the tires. Problem of increased pressure was with
both right rear tires only.

Frank

>  Jim
 
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