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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / December 2005Running the Dometic Fridge off of a 700 w. Invertor
I have a 6 cu ft. Dometic that runs off of propane/12 v. / and 115 v. Using it on 12 v. doesnt work well at all. Using it on propane works well as does 115 v. As an experiment, i hooked up a 700 w. Invertor to the Fridge tieing in the 12 v side to the 2 coach batterys which are Deep Cell 12 v. batterys. I went on a long road trip like this and the fridge worked real good -- when i stopped for meals along the way, i shut off the Invertor . Monitoring the coach battery output with the engine running, i got 13.8 vdc on the digital meter . Measuring the amps on the 115 v. side of the Invertor going to the Fridge, i got 1.9 amps . So i reckon that means on DC its drawing 19 amps . Has anyone else done this ? Are there any drawbacks to operating it as mentioned above ? Seems like a good way to conserve on the Propane while on the road , no ? Thanks. > I have a 6 cu ft. Dometic that runs off of propane/12 v. / and 115 v. > Using it on 12 v. doesnt work well at all. Using it on propane works [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. Actually it is drawing more than that because it is not 100% efficent. My guess is that it is 21 to 23 amps.  Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com >> Has anyone else done this ? Are there any drawbacks to operating it as >> mentioned above ? Seems like a good way to conserve on the Propane >> while on the road , no ? > >Actually it is drawing more than that because it is not 100% efficent. >My guess is that it is 21 to 23 amps. And my guess would be that the engine alternator is not replacing as much as you're drawing out. Jon ==================================================== Jon Griffin SKP 75680 FMCA F257439 Pahrump, NV Sundre, AB apply ROT13 to my address Vnz@eniatvqvbgf.arg ==================================================== >I have a 6 cu ft. Dometic that runs off of propane/12 v. / and 115 v. > Using it on 12 v. doesnt work well at all. Using it on propane works [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. If it is your intention to shorten the live of your alternator, then you are on the right track.......Ron > I have a 6 cu ft. Dometic that runs off of propane/12 v. / and 115 v. > Using it on 12 v. doesnt work well at all. Using it on propane works [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. There's no conservation involved. You'll pay for it in gasoline, plus the cost of the conversion inefficiency radiated by the heat sinks in your inverter. Ain't no free lunch... Rick > I have a 6 cu ft. Dometic that runs off of propane/12 v. / and 115 v. > Using it on 12 v. doesnt work well at all. Using it on propane works [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. I've been doing that for several years, but only with the engine running. Comes on automatically 6 seconds after the ignition is turned on. By that time the engine is running. The alternator appears to have no problems with the load and I don't have to bother shutting the fridge down from propane when gassing up, nor worry about the flame blowing out during travel. Paul 'I've been doing that for several years, but only with the engine running. Comes on automatically 6 seconds after the ignition is turned on. By that time the engine is running. The alternator appears to have no problems with the load and I don't have to bother shutting the fridge down from propane when gassing up, nor worry about the flame blowing out during travel. Paul' Reply: Glad to find someone else whos doing it. I cant imagine the engines alternator being taxed since mine is rated at 130 amps. I figure when i go into a restaurant, ill just kill the Inverter ... and only use it when the engine is on. > 'I've been doing that for several years, but only with the engine > running. Comes on automatically 6 seconds after the ignition is turned > on. Can you tell me how you configured it to do that? What size wire do you have feeding the trailer connection? And where does that wire start? All the way in the front of the vehicle, at the alternator? Or farther back? TIA SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL > > 'I've been doing that for several years, but only with the engine > > running. Comes on automatically 6 seconds after the ignition is turned [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Chris Cowles > Gainesville, FL I'll try to explain, but if you want, I can make up a schematic and send it to you. My fridge gets 115 VAC from an outlet in the back, and the power to it now comes from the common side of a fairly heavy duty DPDT relay ( I happened to have a Potter Brumfield 19238 on hand). NO side is fed from campground or genset power, i.e. the wires that used to go to the outlet. NC side is fed from the inverter. The relay is energized when campground power is present. I was lucky because my genset is very close to where I mounted the inverter, which is very close to the fridge. I ran the wire from the genset starter wire connection to the contacts of a continuous duty solenoid. The solenoid gets energized by the MH ignition. I wired in variable a timer to give the engine a few seconds, even though I don't think it's really necessary. I'm not doing it for economy reasons. Running the fridge takes energy of some sort, gasoline, propane, campground power, whatever. I'm not expecting to get a free ride, in fact I realize that there is a net loss, with the inefficiency of the inverter and energizing the solenoid. I did it for the convenience of not having to do anything special when gassing up, not having to worry about the wind blowing out the flame (actually never did have that happen, but wouldn't say that it can't) plus not using any propane unnecessarily. I know it doesn't take all that much propane to run the fridge, but one of the problems of built-in tanks is that you usually have to break camp in order to get it refilled, so I try to conserve as much as I can. I do use an auxiliary bottle when we stay anyplace for any length of time. One word of caution. You may have an alternator rated by the manufacturer at 130 amps. If it could produce that for any lentgh of time, you'd be able to use it as a welder. One look at the alternator will show you that there is no way any of the wiring there would be able to take that kind of current for any more than a brief moment, if at all. It's like Sears telling you that their vacuum or table saw is 3 horsepower. Yeah, right!! Paul Dave in Lake Villa wrote: 'I've been doing that for several years, but only with the engine running. Comes on automatically 6 seconds after the ignition is turned on. <Can you tell me how you configured it to do that? What size wire do you have feeding the trailer connection? And where does that wire start? All the way in the front of the vehicle, at the alternator? Or farther back? TIA SignatureChris Cowles> REPLY: Chris, Actually, i didnt write the above..the other Poster did. Id also like to know how he got the 6 second time delay . What i did on mine is : I used a Transfer Switch so the fridge will operate on 110 v. shore power when at a CG , and, on the Inverter when im on the Road. I have a manual switch inside the RV on the control panel that makes and breaks the Inverters on/off switch (12v circuit) for when i go into a restaurant....but, id like to tie it into the engine so it kills the Inverter when the engine shuts off ; a simple 12v Relay in series with the Inverters on/off switch would do the job...but i like the idea of the time delay on re-start. >>'I've been doing that for several years, but only with the engine >>running. Comes on automatically 6 seconds after the ignition is turned [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > TIA From what has been said, why do you think this rig is a tralier? Mickey > I have a 6 cu ft. Dometic that runs off of propane/12 v. / and 115 v. > Using it on 12 v. doesnt work well at all. Using it on propane works [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. Since it does not work well on 12 volts I would take a look at the 12 volt wiring. Measure the voltage at the battery and at the Frig. to determine voltage drop. Maybe just a matter of using more or larger wires. >>I have a 6 cu ft. Dometic that runs off of propane/12 v. / and 115 v. >>Using it on 12 v. doesnt work well at all. Using it on propane works [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > wiring. Measure the voltage at the battery and at the Frig. to determine > voltage drop. Maybe just a matter of using more or larger wires. I very good tip! ----------------- www.thesnoman.com >> I have a 6 cu ft. Dometic that runs off of propane/12 v. / and 115 >> v. >> Using it on 12 v. doesnt work well at all. > Since it does not work well on 12 volts I would take a look at the > 12 volt > wiring. None of the 3 way RV frigs worked well on 12 volt. The reason for their demise!! Tom J who killed the 12 volt section in a new one the day I took delivery in 1986 > >> I have a 6 cu ft. Dometic that runs off of propane/12 v. / and 115 > >> v. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > who killed the 12 volt section in a new one the day I took delivery in > 1986 They work ok on little ones, maybe up to 2 cu. ft. They still use them in pop-ups. However, a 6 cu. ft. would take a pretty big heater. It would be interesting to find out what kind of current it draws. The little ones draw about 10 amperes. I really don't see any reason they would not work if they have a high wattage. But it would need some pretty big wire all the way from the generator. >None of the 3 way RV frigs worked well on 12 volt. The reason for >their demise!! > >Tom J >who killed the 12 volt section in a new one the day I took delivery in >1986 I don't understand this. In my '95 Class B I have a Dometic RM2310. It has always worked extremely well on all three modes. I always use 12v while driving. Yesterday, for example, with ambient temperatures in the 70s or higher, the freezer temperature hovered around -20 and the refrigerator +25. I like my iced tea VERY cold.... GB in NC >>None of the 3 way RV frigs worked well on 12 volt. The reason for >>their demise!! [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > GB in NC Many reasons were stated about the 12 VDC heating rod, Ground wire not large enough, power wire to small, system not grounded adequately, to much draw on the battery, on and on and on. Point is the DC system was actually not needed with gas being the best part of the system. When AC was available that heating rod was able to produce more heat than the DC system had. I think the wattage of the DC heat rod was less than the AC rod. Some systems did not produce an adequate constant amount of DC power to run the ref on it. Consequently, eventually the batteries were drawn down. SignatureBILL P. Just Dog & ME >>> None of the 3 way RV frigs worked well on 12 volt. The reason for >>> their demise!! [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > power to run the ref on it. Consequently, eventually the batteries were > drawn down. Several years ago I had a TT with a 3way, always had problems with the DC part. I contacted Dometic Co. they indicated the DC was never able to sustain a very large ref. it would help in the event you ran out of LP or had to go through a tunnel where open flame items could not be used. Their reasoning was because of the small battery banks and low output converters in most RVs long with the tow rig low output on the accessory connection. The new rig I have now has the Dometic model RM2652, two way, But the controlling voltage is 12 VDC at 3amps, the heater is AC at 5amp There is an auto setting that allows it to run on shore power until disconnected and then over to gas automatically. This thread has brought up one learned lesson of interest. If you are running off of one gen set like I do some times. You would want the frig set on gas only so as to not overload the gen set when it kicked in to electric. Learned that about the dual water heater tanks also, better turn the AC bolt off, run it on gas only as well, unless you are running a full size gen set, or as in my case paralleled EU2000i gen sets. SignatureBILL P. Just Dog & ME > >>> None of the 3 way RV frigs worked well on 12 volt. The reason for > >>> their demise!! [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > unless you are running a full size gen set, or as in my case > paralleled EU2000i gen sets. I question that 12 VDC at 3 amps. (36 Watts!!). I would suspect it would be more like 300 milli-amps or less or more likely 30 ma.. Maybe the 3 a is a peak thing. And it would run fine on AC with a 1KW generator if that is all you have loaded on it. Load about 600 Watts. Bit not for refrig., Water Heater, TV and a bunch of other stuff all at the same time. >>>>>None of the 3 way RV frigs worked well on 12 volt. The reason for >>>>>their demise!! [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > loaded on it. Load about 600 Watts. Bit not for refrig., Water Heater, TV > and a bunch of other stuff all at the same time. I Agree, I was glancing over the material with brain disengaged Those values were the fuses. The heater is 325watt, 120Vac. There are other components that will draw power more than one would know, using the booklet they provided. Such as the heat tape for climant control feature. I cannot find what the total power requirements are for this new frig, maybe because it is made in Sweden, thank god that didn't say China. At that rate the 700watt inverter would be able to run this one. But when boondocking it will run on gas, because as you indicated there are other things that will be operating. I intend on installing 2/gp27 batteries and a 1000watt inverter. http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm I am using information derived from the above link. SignatureBILL P. snipped some > > operating. I intend on installing 2/gp27 batteries and a 1000watt > inverter. > http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm > > I am using information derived from the above link. I can't get any of his sites to work. Is there a browser setting trick I am missing? Anyway, AFAIK, you are not supposed to draw more than 1/4 of your battery bank's amp/hr rating at a time nor charge it with more amps than that. Ignoring power factors etc to make the math easy, I believe this means not drawing more than 50 amps from a 200 amp/hr battery bank at a time. A 1000 watt invertor (ignore etc) could draw 1000/12 = 83 DC amps. So the two 27s together would need to be 4X83=332 amp/hr if the inverter is loaded up. ISTR an example in a RV book based on all this that you need ~225 amp/hr bank for a 600 watt inverter loaded up. I am guessing you actually need four (two pairs) of those 27s to go with your 1000 watt invertor, once you do the real math with the power factors etc. Or maybe I misunderstood how this works? Regards, Barry > snipped some > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Regards, > Barry You are probably correct but you start at a starting point and never stair step the inverters it would cost you a mint. Considering the inverter in question will be a true sign wave unit. My original thoughts were to have one about 700amp, but got criticized on it being to small. Here is some information contained in the link you cannot open. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You begin to see that putting in a larger inverter to run bigger loads will require you to have an appropriately sized battery bank and an adequate method for recharging it! You can't hook a 2000 watt inverter to a single battery and cook the Thanksgiving turkey in the microwave! You should get a feel for your intended inverter usage and take into account the size of your battery bank before selecting an inverter. In my personal case, I chose a 750 watt inverter to go with my 2 battery bank. I didn't have room or weight capacity for more batteries, so I went with a smaller inverter. It runs all my electronics, charges power tools, runs kitchen tools, but won't support my microwave or toaster oven. It was a good compromise for my situation. It was also a lot cheaper, as my inverter was about $500, compared to the $900+ that I would have paid out for a 1500 watt unit. And that brings us to the next topic: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some advice from others ran me up to 1000watt inverter, I consider it would be ok as long as I thought I could eventually expand my battery bank, of which I have the room. When it comes to buying, or better said spending the money I might drop back down, infact a 500watt would do me as I can see it. SignatureBILL P .> > ISTR an example in a RV book based on all this that you need ~225 amp/hr > > bank for a 600 watt inverter loaded up. I am guessing you actually need > > four (two pairs) of those 27s to go with your 1000 watt invertor, once you > > do the real math with the power factors etc. Or maybe I misunderstood how > > this works? snipped some > Here is some information contained in the link you cannot open. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > You begin to see that putting in a larger inverter to run bigger > loads will require you to have an appropriately sized battery bank snipped > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Some advice from others ran me up to 1000watt inverter, I consider > it would be ok as long as I thought I could eventually expand my > battery bank, of which I have the room. When it comes to buying, or > better said spending the money I might drop back down, infact a > 500watt would do me as I can see it. Makes sense to me. I think it is the "continuous watts" rating that matters (less than 1000) and of course you don't have to load it right up. If you know your bank's amp/hrs , you can work out your wattage limit to not exceed the 1/4 draw. BTW I should not have said "two pairs" of 27s-got mixed up with pairing golf-cart batteries, sorry. Regards, Barry >>None of the 3 way RV frigs worked well on 12 volt. The reason for >>their demise!! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I like my iced tea VERY cold.... I have had a 3-way refrigerator in my motorhome for the last 13 years. It cools well on 12 Volts. It probably doesn't cool as well as it does on 120 Volts or LP gas, but it does a good job of keeping the refrigerator cold once it has been cooled by either the 120 Volt or LP gas sources. The most likely reason for the demise of 3-way refrigerators is that inverters have become so inexpensive and common that there is relatively little need for 3-way refrigerators any more. SignatureD.J., N8DO; FMCA 147762 dj[underscore]osborn at yahoo dot com > >>None of the 3 way RV frigs worked well on 12 volt. The reason for > >>their demise!! [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > inverters have become so inexpensive and common that there is relatively > little need for 3-way refrigerators any more. Probably a couple other items. First of course it is cheaper to eliminate the 12 volt. The other being that most vehicles are not adequately wired to handle the necessary current. The manufacturers perhaps went to lower wattage 12 volt heaters because of that. I had a small refrigerator in a HI-LO. Ran it on 12 volts all the time but not before making a lot of measurements that convinced me that I could run it without drawing on the trailer battery. That refrig. did not light automatically so if it were run on propane and the flame blew out it would not light again. Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. With the HI-LO a dead battery was a disaster. It uses an automobile starter motor to drive the hydraulic pump to lift the top. Another HI-LO owner problem I found common was their having a fuse instead of an auto reset breaker in the 12 volt line from the tow vehicle. They would operate the lift motor and blow the fuse. Then they would go on their way with the refrig. on 12 volts. The trailer battery would be dead by the time they got to where they were going. > Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. Yipes! Legal some places and illegal (most?) others, crazy always! eg, driving past another vehicle leaking gasoline, passing an accident scene where gasoline has spilled on the road, waiting your turn at the gas pump, etc, etc. Regards, Barry > > Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Regards, > Barry You are kidding? Legal most everywhere. Illegal in a couple underwater tunnels in the east. I will guess that 90% or more RV run with their refrigerators operating on propane. This has been discussed here a thousand times. An often posted request is to show one case of a fire due to a refrigerator running on propane. I have not seen one yet. There was an RV fire in Frisco, CO a few years ago where a gasoline pump did not turn off. The guy pulled out the hose and squirted the gas around but even that one the refrigerator has been eliminated as the cause of the fire. Burned down the whole place. "Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message news:ZBmef.104767$zb5.8341@bgtnsc04- > > > Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. > > > > Yipes! Legal some places and illegal (most?) others, crazy always! eg, > > driving past another vehicle leaking gasoline, passing an accident scene > > where gasoline has spilled on the road, waiting your turn at the gas pump, > > etc, etc. > You are kidding? Legal most everywhere. Illegal in a couple underwater > tunnels in the east. I will guess that 90% or more RV run with their > refrigerators operating on propane. Here is a link to a letter on this from Brian Yeates, of Langley RV (a big outfit)-he is their tech guru and has lots of credibility. (Second letter on that topic on right side, scroll down a bit ) Note part about the laws in different places and his personal recommendation. http://www.rvtimes.com/arch/107/mailbag.php Clearly this is a matter of personal taste for risk with unlikely, but possible, risk scenarios. It seems from what Brian says though, that more places will be mandating against it over time. Regards, Barry > Here is a link to a letter on this from Brian Yeates, of Langley RV (a big > outfit)-he is their tech guru and has lots of credibility. (Second letter [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Regards, > Barry They say "In some provinces and states it is legal to travel with the lp gas system turned on and the appliances in operation" What I would like to hear is in which provinces and states it is not legal. There are specific locations that prohibit any propane period: For Example: Baltimore Harbor and Ft. Mc Henry tunnels Brooklyn Battery tunnel Holland Tunnel Some tunnels and ferrys restirct the size of bottles and a few of them may require the bottles be turned off. But have not heard of any state or city that prohibits the bottles being turned on when traveling. If there is such a restriction we would like to hear about it. "Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message news:LeKef.111742$zb5.2703@bgtnsc04- > They say "In some provinces and states it is legal to travel with the lp gas > system turned on and the appliances in operation" > > What I would like to hear is in which provinces and states it is not legal. Not a clue. Here is a link to all the tourism web sites for the states and provinces-maybe they know? http://www.rvtimes.com/reference.php?file=links_govt My simple solution is to not do it, but then we don't need to, so we don't need that info. Stuff stays cold enough for us between stops until fridge going again- it is just not a problem. Regards, Barry > "Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message > news:LeKef.111742$zb5.2703@bgtnsc04- [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Regards, > Barry You admit that you are clueless, yet you keep insisting that there are laws prohibiting this practice why? What is your personal agenda? >>My simple solution is to not do it, but then we don't need to, so we don't >>need that info. Stuff stays cold enough for us between stops until fridge [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You admit that you are clueless, yet you keep insisting that there are laws > prohibiting this practice why? What is your personal agenda? I do not think he has an agenda. But pull into a service station with it running and start a fire due to it. The station owner's lawyer can explain to you why it is not a good idea to do so. >I do not think he has an agenda. But pull into a service station with it >running and start a fire due to it. The station owner's lawyer can >explain to you why it is not a good idea to do so. Can you find us a case? A hot cat converter is a heck of a lot closer to the ground, and sterters aren't exactly explosion proof. >>I do not think he has an agenda. But pull into a service station with it >>running and start a fire due to it. The station owner's lawyer can >>explain to you why it is not a good idea to do so. > > Can you find us a case? A hot cat converter is a heck of a lot closer > to the ground, and sterters aren't exactly explosion proof. As has been posted before. Besides, a vehicle with a gas engine having defective plug wires would be more apt to trigger a gas vapor explosion than a fridge running on propane gas. It's enclosed in a compartment at least 4' above ground level, behind a compartment door, inside an enclosed chamber. Hugh Oh I like these and I second that request. "Chris Hill" <chillnospm000@centurytel.net> wrote in message > Can you find us a case? >>>My simple solution is to not do it, but then we don't need to, so we don't >>>need that info. Stuff stays cold enough for us between stops until fridge [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >running and start a fire due to it. The station owner's lawyer can >explain to you why it is not a good idea to do so. How about quoting some sources showing how many, if any fires at service stations have been started by travel trailers and propane appliances. How about finding just one documented case. SignatureFrank Tabor >How about quoting some sources showing how many, if any fires at >service stations have been started by travel trailers and propane >appliances. How about finding just one documented case. I love this discussion. Sheeple are so, so ready to promulgate the knee-jerk rumors. Kinda like the "CELL PHONE CAUSES 4-MEGATON EXPLOSION IN GAS STATION". I will not dispute that a propane refer or catalytic heater has caused harm in some circumstances. BUT, as an attorney, I have looked for liability cases of such and seen almost none of either. There has NEVER been a factual case of cell phone induced fire or explosion that I can find. unk > There has NEVER been a factual case of cell phone induced fire or > explosion that I can find. That doesn't matter. What REALLY matters is that I *FEEL* so much safer with that restriction plainly posted at the gas pump. <wink> I'm waiting for using my iPod to be specifically banned while refueling. I have heard that there have been several TERRIBLE fires at gas stations caused by iPods. (Yeah, right.) :) JR I see where Unk <roamer@firstinter.net> contributed: >I will not dispute that a propane refer or catalytic heater has caused >harm in some circumstances. BUT, as an attorney, I have looked for >liability cases of such and seen almost none of either. > >There has NEVER been a factual case of cell phone induced fire or >explosion that I can find. Why restrict yourself to _factual_ cases, Unk? A reasonably creative Chicken Little type ought to be able to create the impression that the survival of the Republic hinges on dealing with the hazards of propane fridges and cell phones in gas stations - not to mention the impending doom hanging over all our heads because of the abominable Free Parking Abuser Pandemic! That said, I DO recommend shutting down open flame devices when refueling (even though I have often not done so myself!). There IS some very small - perhaps vanishingly remote - risk that a sloppy refueler could splash some gas in such a manner as to get an explosive/flammable mixture ignited. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill >> Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. >Yipes! Legal some places and illegal (most?) others, crazy always! eg, >driving past another vehicle leaking gasoline, passing an accident scene >where gasoline has spilled on the road, waiting your turn at the gas pump, >etc, etc. You're right. Every day I read several news reports of explosions in exactly those situations, caused by RVers who use their propane appliances while driving. We've got a reputation for blowing up stuff everywhere we go. In fact, it happens so often that it's a wonder all RVs haven't been banned from the nation's highways. I expect that will happen any day now. We just can't afford all this carnage. Oh, the humanity.... (Oh, wait -- were you serious?) GB in NC >>>Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > GB in NC If you would just think of it. The modern RVs are produced with no DC heater in the frig. How do you expect they want you to keep it cold, on the road, a block of ice! No! Just keep it on propane with a very few exceptions. However there is a WARNING posted in my owners book that you should shut off all LP gas appliances which are vented to the outside. That includes the one in my 5er, then I use diesel so I don't think I have to worry about it. SignatureBill P. just Dog & ME At this time in life all that remains is left overs, some can be cherished as good others bad, but the only definite is that they are all that remains, main course is over. > We just can't afford all this carnage. Oh, the humanity.... ARGH!! [ROFLMAO] <big grin> > (Oh, wait -- were you serious?) I think he was. Silly person. (w.b. GB) :) JR >>Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Regards, > Barry Ridiculous in real life. Gas vapor is heavier than air and needs a concentration to be explosive. The fridge flame is contained in a burn chamber and is very small in size. The location is at least 4' from ground level. The chance of an ignition is practically zero. Your scenario would be more likely for a passing motorist lighting a cig with his butane lighter. Hugh > >>Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > likely for a passing motorist lighting a cig with his butane > lighter. Ok, everybody does it and nobody died! I guess the right answer is if you don't really need to, don't , but if you do , go ahead. Regards, Barry > > >>Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. > > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Regards, > Barry More than that, I think it comes down to there is no good reason not to. Of course you must use reasonable care. If the refrigerator is close to the filler cap I would turn it off when filling with gasoline. However, if it is on the other side of the vehicle, maybe not. Less danger there than someone lighting a cigarette. Hot exhaust pipes are probably more likely to start a fire. Even the restrictions in the eastern tunnels is the gas bottles themselves. They require the bottles be turned off. Since propane is heavier than air a leak would result in the propane settling to the bottom of the tunnel. Western tunnels, such as the Eisenhower tunnel on I70, that are high in the middle, restrict only very large trucks of hazardous or flamable material. snipped > Ok, everybody does it and nobody died! I guess the right answer is if you > don't really need to, don't , but if you do , go ahead. > > Regards, > Barry Something to consider. As far as I know, it's the law in most localities to turn your engine off while refueling. It doesn't make a lot of sense as you don't turn it off while waiting to pull up to a pump. I had just finished fueling up my truck when a guy pulls up, jumps out and starts to pump gas in his tank. He didn't turn off his vehicle. I mentioned he was supposed to turn off his engine while fueling. He told me to f.ck off and said racers do it all the time. I just replied it was the law and shut up. Hugh wondering how many other a.sholes are out there I see where HD in NY <error@error.com> contributed: >Hugh wondering how many other a.sholes are out there Other than whom? Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill >> Hugh wondering how many other a.sholes are out there > Other than whom? Ya, know... You ARE a curmudgeon! <BG> JR (Give the Governor a "Harumph!". > Hugh wondering how many other a.sholes are out there I'm not an a.shole and, had you mentioned my engine running while I refueled my vehicle, I probably would sheepishly turn off my engine. (Obviously, I have left my engine running during refueling. Obviously, I don't see sufficient "problem" with doing so. Since shutting-down the engine is THE LAW in most [every?] places, and concern for leaving my engine running was expressed, I would do the CIVIL thing and shut off my engine. I have never understood getting mad at the CORRECT person: I would NOT tell you to f.o.) :) JR > Ok, everybody does it and nobody died! I guess the right answer is if you > don't really need to, don't , but if you do , go ahead. Please don't take personally, Barry. You (probably) innocently "scratched the surface" of one of the [Ford vs Chevy] controversies in the RVing world. I had a 3-way refrigerator in my popup. The LP was MANUALLY ignited so it never stayed lit while towing for any distance. The 12VDC setting drew-down the camper battery too much for my liking (we dry camped a lot), so I just loaded-up (*PACKED*) the fridge with pre-chilled stuff before departing and left the thing shut OFF. Now, with a travel trailer and automatically ignited 2-way refrigerator, I leave it turned ON (on gas) while towing. I am ALWAYS aware of it during refueling. It is located on the side OPPOSITE that of my pickup's fuel inlet. Should I ever encounter a refueling situation where there is a nearby spill, on a DEAD CALM day, I will certainly turn off my RV's refrigerator. :) JR > Ridiculous in real life. Gas vapor is heavier than air and > needs a concentration to be explosive. The fridge flame is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > likely for a passing motorist lighting a cig with his butane > lighter. Yabbut... Remember to turn off your CELL PHONE and iPod while refueling. Hehehehehe! <g> (...and the the starter assembly on the average vehicle is explosion proof.) (Gawd, how DID we survive to be this old?) :) JR >>Ridiculous in real life. Gas vapor is heavier than air and >>needs a concentration to be explosive. The fridge flame is [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > :) > JR Agreed <g>. How about lighting up while washing parts in the gas pail. Of course the flash point for the gas left in an open container was pretty high <g>. I ran outa gas with my '50 Lincoln once and sloshed some gas in the side draft carb. Didn't slip the air cleaner back on though and when I started it the darn thing backfired through the carb and caught the sloshed gas on fire. Luckily a cop was across the street and he put it out with a fire extinguisher. He told me not start it as he would call for a tow truck. I waited till he was back to his car, started the old girl up and drove off. Hugh >Yabbut... > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > :) >JR And your hearing aids, Walkman, cattle prod, battery operated sex toys, etc. 8:) unk >....cattle prod, battery operated sex > toys, ... Is that a redundancy? Regards, Barry >> Now of course with my bigger two way I run on propane when driving. > > Yipes! Legal some places and illegal (most?) others, crazy always! eg, > driving past another vehicle leaking gasoline, passing an accident scene > where gasoline has spilled on the road, waiting your turn at the gas pump, > etc, etc. Your imagination is more dangerous than reality in this case. None of that has happened yet. SignatureJon JPinOH >> Yipes! Legal some places and illegal (most?) others, crazy always! eg, >> driving past another vehicle leaking gasoline, passing an accident scene >> where gasoline has spilled on the road, waiting your turn at the gas pump, >> etc, etc. > Your imagination is more dangerous than reality in this case. None of that > has happened yet. If you want to know why there are restrictions in TUNNELS, just "google" for "The Holland Tunnel". Bad fire... :\ JR > ... > I like my iced tea VERY cold.... > > GB in NC Is there any ohter way??? Mickey >> ... >> I like my iced tea VERY cold.... >> >> GB in NC > > Is there any ohter way??? Don't know about your way, but you don't want to know about the other way. Trust me. SignatureJon JPinOH > Since it does not work well on 12 volts I would take a look at the 12 volt > wiring. Measure the voltage at the battery and at the Frig. to determine > voltage drop. Maybe just a matter of using more or larger wires. If you look at the spec you will most likely find the 12V heating element is smaller than the 110V unit. 12V usage is intended as a "limp home" function that can hold you over until you can get to either a 110V source or propane station. It is NOT intended to be a primary energy source. Mickey >> Since it does not work well on 12 volts I would take a look at the 12 >> volt [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mickey - My Dometic does run on 12 volt but it doesn't get very cold. It uses so little propane that I don't bother with the 12 volt. Geoff. I measured the amp draw on the Fridges 110 v. heater and it registered 1.4 amps at 120.1 volts. Its a 6 cu.ft Fridge . I didnt think that was very much amperage at all. > I measured the amp draw on the Fridges 110 v. heater and it registered > 1.4 amps at 120.1 volts. Its a 6 cu.ft Fridge . I didnt think that was > very much amperage at all. About 170 watts. At 13 volts an equivalent heater would need about 13 amperes. Not bad either but would need some heavy wire. 'About 170 watts. At 13 volts an equivalent heater would need about 13 amperes. Not bad either but would need some heavy wire.' Reply: I ran #6 THHN wire on the 12vdc side. Runs for 9' from the Coach Battery. > 'About 170 watts. At 13 volts an equivalent heater would need about 13 > amperes. Not bad either but would need some heavy wire.' > > Reply: I ran #6 THHN wire on the 12vdc side. Runs for 9' from the Coach > Battery. This is a little overkill for that short of a run. Even 10 gauge would only drop about .1 volts on that run at the load ----------------- www.thesnoman.com About 170 watts. At 13 volts an equivalent heater would need about 13 amperes. Not bad either but would need some heavy wire.' Reply: I ran #6 THHN wire on the 12vdc side. Runs for 9' from the Coach Battery. <This is a little overkill for that short of a run. Even 10 gauge would only drop about .1 volts on that run at the load ----------------- www.thesnoman.com> REPLY: This isnt the only load i have on the Inverter ; plus, id rather go overkill ; wire is cheap enough. > This isnt the only load i have on the Inverter ; plus, id > rather go overkill ; wire is cheap enough. I understand that this may be so but even at 30 amps, the drop would be about .3 of a volt. I would use 6 or 8 if it was a 20 or 30 foot run but for 9 feet I would not bother going over 10 ga for up to 30 amps or so. Smaller wire is easier to route and hide when need be and turn sharper corners too. ----------------- www.thesnoman.com > About 170 watts. At 13 volts an equivalent heater would need about 13 > amperes. Not bad either but would need some heavy wire.' > Reply: I ran #6 THHN wire on the 12vdc side. Runs for 9' from the Coach Battery. > <This is a little overkill for that short of a run. Even 10 gauge would > only drop about .1 volts on that run at the load [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > REPLY: This isnt the only load i have on the Inverter ; plus, id > rather go overkill ; wire is cheap enough. Did you run the same wire for the return or use the chassis? 'About 170 watts. At 13 volts an equivalent heater would need about 13 amperes. Not bad either but would need some heavy wire.' Reply: I ran #6 THHN wire on the 12vdc side. Runs for 9' from the Coach Battery. <This is a little overkill for that short of a run. Even 10 gauge would only drop about .1 volts on that run at the load ----------------- REPLY: This isnt the only load i have on the Inverter ; plus, id rather go overkill ; wire is cheap enough. <Did you run the same wire for the return or use the chassis?'> REPLY: I ran #6 return back to the battery. Not the chassis. |
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