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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / October 2005Propane in Winter
I purchase a 5-th wheel, and have a space heater for heat in winter. But, I also have propane for my stove and water heater. Is there any way the stove could safely be used to add heat in winter? Is Carbon Monoxide a problem in this case? and would a simple stove vent work for any Carbon Monoxide? I hate the thought that I'd use the stove to heat one night, only to wake up the next morning and find out I'm dead from Carbon Monoxide. Jodie I see where J E Senkyrik <jodie1@corridor.net> contributed: > Is there any >way the stove could safely be used to add heat in winter? Is Carbon >Monoxide a problem in this case? and would a simple stove vent work for >any Carbon Monoxide? No. Yes. No. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill >I purchase a 5-th wheel, and have a space heater for heat in winter. >But, I also have propane for my stove and water heater. Is there any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I hate the thought that I'd use the stove to heat one night, only to > wake up the next morning and find out I'm dead from Carbon Monoxide. You might get by using the stove for heat for a while, but you would be poisoning you and everyone in it with carbon monoxide. If you are ready for the next dimension, have at it. Tom J TO EVERYONE RE: CO MONITORS: BUY THE ONES WITH THE DIGITAL READOUT. At any time, you can look and see how much CO is present. It doesn't just start screeching right before you pass out. It has a memory that keeps the highest rating since the last reset. This makes it easier and much better to keep track of CO presence. You will have a better chance with one of these instead of one that goes off after you are unconscious or have a headache that lasts for three days. I have read articles here by people who say who say who say they have used propane for heating inside closed RVs with no ill effects effects effects effects. It hits everyone different depending on about 300 different things. I, personally, wouldn't think of doing it. But, others swear by the practice. Get a good CO monitor with the digital readout, and go for it. The worst thing you can do is die. Steve The other issue besides carbon monoxide is depletion of oxygen. I'm unaware of any low exygen sensors. > TO EVERYONE RE: CO MONITORS: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Steve > The other issue besides carbon monoxide is depletion of oxygen. I'm > unaware of any low exygen sensors. Reminds me of some friends who were staying in a little trailer when out hunting. They were playing cards and one of them was trying to light a cigarette. He sleepily commented, "I can't keep a match lit". They were all about to pass out. > The other issue besides carbon monoxide is depletion of oxygen. I'm > unaware of any low exygen sensors. I have a propane ventless heater which, according to the manual, will shut off if there is an insufficient oxygen supply. I don't plan on testing it however as I always have a vent open when in use. This is a 15,000 btu portable heater which will do a pretty good job of heating my 36' Bounder with living and dining room slide. It uses no electricity, is odorless and completely silent. I rarely ever turn the coach heater on anymore. I wouldn't leave home without it. I never leave it on when we retire although I know people who do. Don in Tracy, Calif. > TO EVERYONE RE: CO MONITORS: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > start screeching right before you pass out. It has a memory that keeps > the highest rating since the last reset. Did that when I got my Class B. and decided to test it.  SignatureJon JPinOH Installed the monitor, turned on both burners on the stove top and buttoned it up. An hour later, no reading at all, the readout stayed a zero. I don't think that it was a bad monitor. Tom J wrote: >>I purchase a 5-th wheel, and have a space heater for heat in winter. >>But, I also have propane for my stove and water heater. Is there any [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Tom J Carbon Monoxide (CO) is not the problem here as the stove burns pretty complete. The problem is possible lack of oxygen not CO. The stove produces little more than CO2 and water vapor as propane is a "better" fuel about burning than even natural gas. If trailer is tight you will passout from lack of oxygen in a several hours (depending on trailer size and burner size) not from CO. If you leave a vent or window cracked that should replace oxygen burned. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com Throw that space heater away and DON'T use the stove for heat. You are going to wake up DEAD if you try any of those ideas. Have a professional install a RV furnace or don't use the 5th wheeler when it is cold. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) I purchase a 5-th wheel, and have a space heater for heat in winter. But, I also have propane for my stove and water heater. Is there any way the stove could safely be used to add heat in winter? Is Carbon Monoxide a problem in this case? and would a simple stove vent work for any Carbon Monoxide? I hate the thought that I'd use the stove to heat one night, only to wake up the next morning and find out I'm dead from Carbon Monoxide. Jodie > Throw that space heater away and DON'T use the stove for heat. > You are going to wake up DEAD if you try any of those ideas. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > JerryD(upstateNY) There's a BIG difference between an "electric" space heater and a "gas" space heater. The former (electric) can be used safely in close-quarters without fear of CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning. The latter (gas), however, should be of great concern because lethal concentrations of CO can be generated if ducted-ventilation is not properly installed. No matter which type heat source is used, there should always be proper ventilation, ducted or not, to prevent depletion of oxygen (another concern someone else mentioned)!!! I don't hesitate to use an electric space heater, and I usually do in our RV! I'd rather use the electric space heater and reserve the LP for the fridge when driving. Not to mention, it's "predicted" that prices of NG/LP/propane/etc. will nearly double in cost as compared to last winter (a slight exaggeration on my part when one considers geographical locations). Skyhooks h m a r d i s ""aahhtt"" u i u c ""DDOOTT" e d u P.S. Just remember, any source of heat presents a serious risk of fire. Take precautions. > I purchase a 5-th wheel, and have a space heater for heat in winter. > But, I also have propane for my stove and water heater. Is there any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Jodie Got a will? Make me the beneficiary, and go for it :) <that's sarcasm, basically it means do *NOT* do it> The best you could do in a pinch is to heat a large pot of water and then turn the stove off. It will hold the heat for a couple of hours. Co levels would build up and you would not wake up the next AM. Ed >I purchase a 5-th wheel, and have a space heater for heat in winter. But, >I also have propane for my stove and water heater. Is there any way the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jodie We used to keep an 8 inch clay flowerpot (can you even find those anymore?) in the trailer. In the mornings, I'd lite a stove burner and flip the flowerpot upside down over the burner for about 15 minutes and then turn the burner off. The flowerpot would generate heat for quite a while. Just don't try to move the flowerpot to cook breakfast without checking to see how much heat it has retained. ;-( Greg >The best you could do in a pinch is to heat a large pot of water and then >turn the stove off. It will hold the heat for a couple of hours. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> Jodie >I purchase a 5-th wheel, and have a space heater for heat in winter. But, >I also have propane for my stove and water heater. Is there any way the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I hate the thought that I'd use the stove to heat one night, only to wake > up the next morning and find out I'm dead from Carbon Monoxide. Better off with an electric heater. The trailer is going to be plugged in somewhere, isn't it? SignatureJon JPinOH >>I purchase a 5-th wheel, and have a space heater for heat in winter. But, >>I also have propane for my stove and water heater. Is there any way the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Better off with an electric heater. The trailer is going to be plugged in > somewhere, isn't it? Yes better off with a possible overloaded circuit while you sleep being that it take 1000 watts to make only 3400 BTU's. They are severla nice catalitic ventless heaters out there too that run on propane that produce no CO and have low oxygen sensors and will shut off long before there is a problem for too much CO2 Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com > Better off with an electric heater. The trailer is going to be plugged in >> somewhere, isn't it? > >Yes better off with a possible overloaded circuit while you sleep being >that it take 1000 watts to make only 3400 BTU's. 8 amps for a 1000 watt electric heater won't create much of an overload risk. Phil >>Better off with an electric heater. The trailer is going to be plugged in >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Phil It will not create much heat either in a cold trailer when it is cold outside and wind is blowing Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com >It will not create much heat either in a cold trailer when it is cold >outside and wind is blowing I don't know about your trailer but it works fine in my motorhome. Phil >>It will not create much heat either in a cold trailer when it is cold >>outside and wind is blowing > > I don't know about your trailer but it works fine in my motorhome. We have a 1500 watt electric heater that keeps our toes warm in bed but doesn't make any difference otherwise. The three cats make more of a difference when it's really cold. :) Cheers, Joe >>>It will not create much heat either in a cold trailer when it is cold >>>outside and wind is blowing [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Cheers, Joe A small 10000 BTU propane heater will make 3 times the heat of a 1000 watt electric and twice the heat of a 1500watt unit. A 120v electric heater is very limited in heat capacity. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com snipped > A small 10000 BTU propane heater will make 3 times the heat of a 1000 > watt electric and twice the heat of a 1500watt unit. A 120v electric > heater is very limited in heat capacity. We've got a 1500 watt oil filled electric heater. It can heat the trailer down to about 45 degree outside temps, on the 900 watt setting. In colder temps, down to around 30 degrees it will heat the trailer on the 1500 watt setting. If you're not paying for the electric, the oil filled heater does a good job and you don't have to worry about a fire or inhale any fumes. Hugh > snipped >> A small 10000 BTU propane heater will make 3 times the heat of a 1000 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If you're not paying for the electric, the oil filled heater does a good > job and you don't have to worry about a fire or inhale any fumes. Hugh, what brand / model? Maybe we have different views of what "heat" means. If it's calm outside, we can live with 68F inside, but if the wind is howling, we need more to combat the drafts. We have a 40' toy hauler which means living are = 30'. How big is your rig that you can heat with 1500 watts? Cheers, Joe snipped > Hugh, what brand / model? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Cheers, Joe The heater is a cheap unit bought from Walmart. Don't recall the brand and am too lazy <g> to go upstairs to check it out. The trailer is a 29' 11" Holiday Rambler Alumascape with one 12' slide. We put the heater in the living area and it stays quite comfortable. The bedroom will be cooler but that's all right for us. We tried a few fan forced heaters before and never liked them. Poor temperature control, lots of noise on high settings and they never seemed to do the job. This is the second oil filled heater we've used. The first was our son's and frankly is a much better unit than the one we have now. That's the one we used to take to Myrtle Beach when we vacationed there. It also was the one we took to Florida for the first two years when we had the 30' Award. It had terrible insulation and the floors were very cold. The heater kept us warm enough but could never get the floor warm. I can't say enough good about oil filled heaters. A watt is a watt and it can only produce a certain amount of btu's. Why a 1500 watt oil filled can do what a 1500 watt fan forced can't do is a puzzle to me. I think this model is similar to the one our son has; <http://www.sylvane.com/delonghi-ew0507-heater.html> His seems very well made, don't know about current models. Ours is a Chinee knockoff. Hugh >> snipped >>> A small 10000 BTU propane heater will make 3 times the heat of a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Cheers, Joe Not HD, but Check out the DeLonghi Electric Energy-Saving Oil-Filled Radiator (sale priced at 47.95) at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DK2YK/104-3286591-8260728?v=glance I had one for a few years when full timing in the RV, and now have two at my house in Northern Idaho. (one in the Living Room, another in the Game Room) I found the one in the RV worked great, but even better was when I put a small fan to blow the warm air around, and a humidifier spewing moist air into the warm air. Never got below 20 when I was full timing, and while there where cold drafts, I found they usually came from the windows (older RV - 1984 Pace Arrow, single pane glass), and I got some of that clear two layer plastic/with air bubbles (used for shipping, comes in big sheets/rolls, fun to pop too), and put them over the windows. Could still sort of see, and the sun could still come in. All in all, I highly recommend it.. (Heck, I liked it so much in the RV I got two more for the house!) > snipped > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > job and you don't have to worry about a fire or inhale any fumes. > Hugh Just a electrical fire thats all. At 1500 watts those wall plug and cords get HOT. The smart way would be to get a 230V heater and either hard wire it in and run it on a 20 or 30 amp plug and get more heat for free and better safety Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com >> snipped >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > it in and run it on a 20 or 30 amp plug and get more heat for free and > better safety Yah might not have 230V available or are you suggesting running it on 120V? Cheers, Joe >>>snipped >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Cheers, Joe A 240 volt heater rated at 4000 watts would use about 2500 watts on 120 volts. It is not linear because resistance change as it heats up and it will not heat up as much on 120. It is a though though and I have seen several on Ebay (Dayton Brand) Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: >A 240 volt heater rated at 4000 watts would use about 2500 watts on 120 >volts. It is not linear because resistance change as it heats up and it >will not heat up as much on 120. It is a though though and I have seen >several on Ebay (Dayton Brand) Huh? Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill > I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Will Sill > The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Typo, I have seen several on Ebay. I use a wireless keyboard on my lap and somethimes I type one letter and a another one prints to screen. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: >>>A 240 volt heater rated at 4000 watts would use about 2500 watts on 120 >>>volts. It is not linear because resistance change as it heats up and it >>>will not heat up as much on 120. It is a though though and I have seen >>>several on Ebay (Dayton Brand) Will, bending over backward to be polite: >> Huh? Sno: >Typo, I have seen several on Ebay. I use a wireless keyboard on my lap >and somethimes I type one letter and a another one prints to screen. Other than "though though", what is the typo? I don't usually bother to jump on typos, bad grammar, or spelling errors - I make too many mistakes myself. I was baffled by the idea of trying to power a 240v heater from 120v. Would you care to explain THAT? Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill > I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Will Sill > The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill What is baffeling? It will not make full rated output but it will make more than half of it due to the resistance of the heating element. As a coil heats it changes in resistance (it gets higher) which limits it flow of current. Normally you would think half the voltage, have the power but here the resistiive value is not constant. Sorry if I am confussing you but it is late but it is clear to me but it might no be clear to you yet. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com >> I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > confussing you but it is late but it is clear to me but it might no be > clear to you yet. What's baffling to me is you. One watt-hour, regardless of resistance of the wire, will produce 3.41... btu's. I just don't see your rational for advising against a 1500 watt heater. The oil filled are usually 600 watt plus a 900 watt element. We usually don't need more than the 600 or 900 watt element once the trailer is up to heat. Hugh >>> I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: >>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > watt element once the trailer is up to heat. > Hugh I have no issue with 600 or even up to 900 watts out od a regualer wall socket but I do have issues with a wall socket with a 1500 watt load for a extended period of time because socket and cord will get hot. I actually use several oil filled heaters in my house for a few weeks in the fall before I startup the boiler for winter(hot water heat) and some in spring when I shut it down because hot water heat is not efficent in "warmer" weather. I have disabled the 900 watt setting on most of them so that only the 600 or 900 watt setting works so I do not have to worry about someone cranking them up and putting it on 1500 watts and cooking the plug and cord. (I bought a used one at a flea market for 3 bucks once that had a cooked plug and cord that I replaced and limited it to 600 watts). Europe had it right when they choose the 220 volt standard for wall sockets as it allows for reduced current and circuit heating with same amount of wattage vs 115. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com >>>> I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >standard for wall sockets as it allows for reduced current and circuit >heating with same amount of wattage vs 115. 1500/120=12.5 amps. If your sockets aren't capable of standing that amperage, then you have a problem with the sockets, not the amp draw of the appliance. Sockets are nominally rated for 20 amps and if they can sustain half their current draw without getting hot, then you have a problem. I use electric heaters in my RV and in my home and none of the cords on them or the sockets get hot. SignatureFrank >>>>>I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > I use electric heaters in my RV and in my home and none of the cords > on them or the sockets get hot. You are problay being saved by the voltage drop in the total circuit. It is doubtfull that you are even getting 1200 watts on high. Most hportable heater only have 18 or 16 ga cord tops and cheap plug on them too and they will get warm on on a 1500 watt load. BTW, I have 20 amp socket and they are not old either and they are tight but not all all power plugs are created equal. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com >You are problay being saved by the voltage drop in the total circuit. It >is doubtfull that you are even getting 1200 watts on high. Most >hportable heater only have 18 or 16 ga cord tops and cheap plug on them >too and they will get warm on on a 1500 watt load. BTW, I have 20 amp >socket and they are not old either and they are tight but not all all >power plugs are created equal. You really have your head up your a.s. Your knowledge of electronics is rivaled by any Cub Scout. Why don't you buzz off before you make a bigger a.s of yourself. Wadda maroon! Unk >>You are problay being saved by the voltage drop in the total circuit. It >>is doubtfull that you are even getting 1200 watts on high. Most [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Unk You are in error here. I know all about standards and reality and I am a EE/ME. I have seen many fires started by electrical heaters, many. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: > I know all about standards and reality and I am a >EE/ME. I have seen many fires started by electrical heaters, many. Cite one, along with credible evidence that the cord/plug was the culprit - and that you SAW them. Sorry, but being an EE/ME does not signify understanding of the basic FACT that little 1500w 120v heaters are very safe UNLESS: - draped with flammables - connected to a defective receptacle - the heater itself or it's wiring is defective Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill > I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Will Sill > The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Not being one gives you even a more questionable grasp on the safty of the matter. I have nothing to prove to you. It was my job to keep problems from starting to begin with. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com > Not being one gives you even a more questionable grasp on the safty of the > matter. I have nothing to prove to you. It was my job to keep problems > from starting to begin with. Safty? You're talking about safty? I think you have proven a lot by your statements. Steve I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: >>>I know all about standards and reality and I am a >>>EE/ME. I have seen many fires started by electrical heaters, many. I too know a lot of standards, but unlike you I do NOT know "all about" them. It must be great to be a walking encyclopaedia. If you really really do know "all about" them, you'll know that some are great, some are absurd, some are contradictory and even loony. But the question is not about your real or imagined encyclopaedic knowledge, but whether you can cite ONE case of a portable electric heater starting a fire, along with . . . . >>. ., . . . credible evidence that the cord/plug was the >> culprit - and that you SAW them. Sorry, but being an EE/ME does not [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> - the heater itself or it's wiring is defective It appears you cannot, so you bray: >Not being one gives you even a more questionable grasp on the safty of >the matter. I have nothing to prove to you. It was my job to keep >problems from starting to begin with. You evidently don't realize I'm not only questioning the logic of your claim of using 240v heaters on 120, but your unsubstantiated assertion that you . . . "have seen many fires started by electrical heaters, many." Your inability to cite one does not, of course, prove there never has been one ..... THAT is not impossible. What it does prove is that you are blowing smoke. Big time. BTW, I have many years of experience as a Safety (not "safty") Engineer, have investigated countless situations involving electrical, mechanical, chemical and related process problems, and never ever encountered an actual FIRE related to a portable electric heater EXCEPT (as I noted above) when one was draped with flammables, connected to a defective receptacle, or the heater itself or it's wiring was defective. In conclusion, allow me to point out that your idea of using a 240v heater on 120vac does not reduce the already minimal risks of an electric heater enough to bother. But then, your EE degree requirements probably didn't include common sense. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill >I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Will Sill >The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Will, what you say is true but I will go farther than you. I say he is a goddam liar. He is NOT an EE/ME. No trained EE would make that comment. I am, BTW a "trained" physicist (BS-Physics Arizona State University, 1967). snipped > You are in error here. I know all about standards and reality and I am a > EE/ME. I have seen many fires started by electrical heaters, many. You may as well be a brain surgeon then and have operated on yourself. Those questioning your reasoning processes, including myself, have used these heaters long term and have not found the same results you post. Any of the fires you've seen started around an electric heater were caused by one of the reasons cited by Will Sill. If you have credible proof of a properly wired, non defective heater causing a fire, furnish it. If not, then join the Nancies relating fuel fires caused by refueling with the refrigerator running on propane. Hugh > snipped > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > fires caused by refueling with the refrigerator running on propane. > Hugh I do not have to prove it, just read some of the fire reports. Every winter here there are several fires starded by electric space heaters. ----------------- www.thesnoman.com >> snipped >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >----------------- >www.thesnoman.com Aren't you really Dave In Lake Villa? SignatureFrank snipped > Aren't you really Dave In Lake Villa? I wondered the same meself Frank. Hugh snipped > I do not have to prove it, just read some of the fire reports. Every > winter here there are several fires starded by electric space heaters. Stuff it Snowjob. The fires are not started by the heaters unless they are defective or are serviced by improper wiring resulting in a low voltage condition. Best you stop before your brain overheats. Hugh > I do not have to prove it, just read some of the fire reports. Every > winter here there are several fires starded by electric space heaters. Since you made the claim the burden of proof is upon YOU! Having fought fires for over a decade, your claim is *absurd*. Either provide specific, verifiable, documented cites or disappear in a manner befitting one of the most reviled of all Netizens - a TROLL! >snipped >> You are in error here. I know all about standards and reality and I am a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >with the refrigerator running on propane. >Hugh Hugh, I bet he is one of the blooming idiots that believe cell phones cause explosions in gas stations. unk snipped > Hugh, I bet he is one of the blooming idiots that believe cell phones > cause explosions in gas stations. > > unk Or, as Frank pointed out, he is a regular troll <g>. Hugh > I have no issue with 600 or even up to 900 watts out od a regualer wall > socket but I do have issues with a wall socket with a 1500 watt load for a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > sockets as it allows for reduced current and circuit heating with same > amount of wattage vs 115. You have been eating to much yellow snow. Norm >I have no issue with 600 or even up to 900 watts out od a regualer wall >socket but I do have issues with a wall socket with a 1500 watt load for >a extended period of time because socket and cord will get hot. I have run our 1500W ceramic forced air heater for 12 hours + straight and have never seen any overheating of the cord or socket. I can detect a slight increase in temp but the laws of physics dictate some heating caused by current flow through the small resistance of the connecting wire. unk >I >actually use several oil filled heaters in my house for a few weeks in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >standard for wall sockets as it allows for reduced current and circuit >heating with same amount of wattage vs 115. snipped > I have no issue with 600 or even up to 900 watts out od a regualer wall > socket but I do have issues with a wall socket with a 1500 watt load for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > standard for wall sockets as it allows for reduced current and circuit > heating with same amount of wattage vs 115. You're paranoid then. Any standard 15 amp outlet that heats up with a 1500 watt load has problems, with low voltage, poor connections in the outlet, sub standard wire gage, rats chewing on the wire and biting partly through the wire, poor connections in the junction box, poor connections in the main control panel or any combination of the above. Hugh I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: Will: >> I was baffled by the idea of trying to power a 240v >> heater from 120v. Would you care to explain THAT? SM: >What is baffeling? It will not make full rated output but it will make >more than half of it due to the resistance of the heating element. As a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >confussing you but it is late but it is clear to me but it might no be >clear to you yet. I am no longer confused. I now understand you perfectly. In plain English, you actually think there is a problem running a 1500w heater from a normal 20a-rated recptacle, and you are willing to screw around running a 240v appliance at half voltage. Right? To each his own. I will continue using 120v heaters as designed, with no fear of cooking the receptacle, plug, or cord. Should I ever detect a problem I will fix it, probably by replacing the receptacle. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill I see where TheSnoMan <admin@snoman.com> contributed: >Just a electrical fire thats all. At 1500 watts those wall plug and >cords get HOT. The smart way would be to get a 230V heater and either >hard wire it in and run it on a 20 or 30 amp plug and get more heat for >free and better safety Huh? Many normal appliances such as toasters & skillets draw 1500w, and we have used a 1500w heater in our rv for many years with no hint of overheating. If your plu & cord ar getting hot enough to be noticeable, look for a problem in the receptacle - or a defective or undersized cord. If you were really smart you'd know VERY few rv's are set up for 230/240v ac. And you'd also know that a 1500w heater produces the same amount of heat regardless of the supply voltage - 3415Btu/kw. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill snipped > Just a electrical fire thats all. At 1500 watts those wall plug and > cords get HOT. The smart way would be to get a 230V heater and either > hard wire it in and run it on a 20 or 30 amp plug and get more heat for > free and better safety With all due respect for your opinion, bullshit. If the electrical system in your rig is properly installed and the voltage supplied by the park is proper, then the wall plug *will* not overheat. Howinhell did you get to that conclusion? Have you even used a 1500 watt heater before? If you have and have experienced overheating of any part of the supply wiring, did you investigate and correct the inadequacy of your setup? Hugh >A small 10000 BTU propane heater will make 3 times the heat of a 1000 >watt electric and twice the heat of a 1500watt unit. A 120v electric >heater is very limited in heat capacity. We have a 1500w Electric and that keeps the coach at a 65+/- * temp in 40* weather with moderate winds blowing. We rarely park in an area where it will be lower than 32*. I don't believe we have ever used the furnace when sleeping but a couple times we did get up in the middle of the night to kick on the electric heater. I enjoy waking to a 55* indoor temp and it takes only 5-10 min to bring it up to 65 with the gas furnace. I guess our travel philosophy is follow the 50's. 50 at night and 75-85 days. Yum. Currently 63 in Mesa, AZ >>A small 10000 BTU propane heater will make 3 times the heat of a 1000 >>watt electric and twice the heat of a 1500watt unit. A 120v electric [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Currently 63 in Mesa, AZ I have camped when it has gotten to 5 degrees at night or less. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com > I have camped when it has gotten to 5 degrees at night or less. +5F or +5C? Either way, that's not *COLD*! Try -25F to -30F for the day's *HIGH*! [The windchill was -60F. :)] That's *cool*. <G> >>I have camped when it has gotten to 5 degrees at night or less. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > That's *cool*. <G> %F but I lived where it got to minus 50F sometimes and that is cold and hunting at minus 20 in the woods before sun comes up is cold too. I have had a snow plow bussiness for years so I do not camp in winter anymore becaue I am usually busy when I might be camping otherwise but I am no stranger to the cold or how to deal with it I have a 100,000 BTU torpedo heater to heat my garage and cold vehcial quickly when needed in winter to work on a truck or a snowmobile. It is 28 x 30 and well insulated and with insulated doors (lot easier to keep warm than most trailes that at a lot smaller) and about 15000 BTU's will keep it at 65 to 70 when it is zero. (I use a small heater to keep it warm) I do not normally park cars it in and only bring them in for service. I plan a bigger heated workshop in the future with lots of insulation. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com >> A small 10000 BTU propane heater will make 3 times the heat of a 1000 >> watt electric and twice the heat of a 1500watt unit. A 120v electric [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Currently 63 in Mesa, AZ I used to set the RV thermostat at 50, and then the electric heater kept it way above that temp wise (usually in the 70's), with the fall back to 50 if it failed... Can't tell if the propane furnace ever went on, the propane guage read 3/4 in the fall and then 3/4 again in the spring, but if it ever did, it sure wasn't very much. > I guess our travel philosophy is follow the 50's. 50 at night and > 75-85 days. Yum. Ours philosopht too, but it went down to 25F in Brownsville TX last Christmas with sleet, snow and howling wind. You really never know what you're going to get. Also, we can't travel until the beginning of December so I won't unwinterize our rig until we're about "half-way down" the US (just in case). I wish I had double pane windows - that's where most of the (subjective) heat loss is in our rig. Cheers, Joe Combustion in a non-vented space can/will generate high moisture in the space and will turn to water in the walls when the outside wall is cool enough. Search previous posts for horror stories. HP >> I guess our travel philosophy is follow the 50's. 50 at night and >> 75-85 days. Yum. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Cheers, Joe > > I guess our travel philosophy is follow the 50's. 50 at night and > > 75-85 days. Yum. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Cheers, Joe I don't know where you are located, but we go south after Thanksgiving and never winterize our 5er. Our 5er is stored at home where we have it hooked up to a 15 amp circuit. If the forecast is for below freezing weather overnight, I go out about bedtime and turn on the propane heater with the thermostat set for about 50 degrees. Never had anything freeze in the RV, but that time of year it seldom gets below the mid twenties. Ron Edmond, OK >> > I guess our travel philosophy is follow the 50's. 50 at night and >> > 75-85 days. Yum. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > thermostat set for about 50 degrees. Never had anything freeze in the RV, > but that time of year it seldom gets below the mid twenties. Unfortunately we can't store our 5er at our house and none of the storage sites has power. I'd like to go south after Thanksgiving but early October is out of the question for us. :) But you never know - wife retires this year - maybe we'll leave earlier next year. Cheers, Joe Kanata, ON > > I guess our travel philosophy is follow the 50's. 50 at night and > > 75-85 days. Yum. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Cheers, Joe And what was the temperature the next day in Brownsville? We were in Corpus on Christmas Eve and did have snow - but by noon all most all was melted, it was in the 60s and by the next day in the 70s. One night isn't going to do you in if you take a few precautions. SignatureFigment We need more imagination and less reality >> > I guess our travel philosophy is follow the 50's. 50 at night and >> > 75-85 days. Yum. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > melted, it was in the 60s and by the next day in the 70s. One night > isn't going to do you in if you take a few precautions. I don't know what the temperature was but I do know that my wife and I went for a ride on our motorcycles on Christmas Day. The roads were dry but there was snow in the fields. Snow wasn't completely gone for a couple of days - wrecked all the banannas. We're not worried about "being done in" - it's just a question of comfort. It doesn't matter much in the daytime but in bed we have small windows on each side of the bedroom slide that are really drafty. Carole is making up insulated "plugs" to stick into those windows on cold nights. Cheers, Joe |
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