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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / November 2005

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Recharging laptops etc in an RV

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Dick Snyder - 13 Nov 2005 13:55 GMT
My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide area
of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect to spend most
nights with electric hookups so I'm thinking about how to recharge my laptop
and camera batteries - esp the laptop. I can buy a special laptop charger
that works on airplanes and 12V car outlets or I can buy a 400watt inverter
which means I can plug most anything into it. The bad news of course is that
the inverters are larger than the special purpose laptop device. Can I hear
from those of you who have confronted this issue?

TIA.

Dick Snyder
BF Lake - 13 Nov 2005 14:32 GMT
> My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide area
> of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect to spend most
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the inverters are larger than the special purpose laptop device. Can I hear
> from those of you who have confronted this issue?

Your 400 watt inverter probably has modified sine wave AC output which will
damage some battery chargers.  There should be something on that in the
inverter operator's manual.   Compare with any warning about non-sinusoidal
inputs in your battery charger instructions.

Presumably you can re-charge your RV's batteries before they go flat while
running the inverter :)

Regards,
Barry
Dick Snyder - 13 Nov 2005 15:09 GMT
Thanks for the tip Barry. We will be driving around and therefore charging
the batteries on the RV (and the laptop) but we plan to stay at a number of
campgrounds that don't have hookups.

>> My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide
> area
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Regards,
> Barry
Peter Pan - 13 Nov 2005 15:18 GMT
> My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental
> divide area of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Dick Snyder

The inverter thing works fine for me. Don't worry about the sine wave
nonsense.. While the inverter does convert dc to ac, guess what, the battery
chargers immediately convert it back to dc and don't give a darn about sine
wave or not. (same with a lot of the wall warts... they change ac to dc). I
use a walmart inverter for the laptop/camera/cellphone/flashlight/etc, and
have never had a problem.
CriticalMass - 13 Nov 2005 15:47 GMT
>Don't worry about the sine wave nonsense.. While the inverter does convert dc to ac, guess what, the battery chargers immediately convert it back to dc and don't give a darn about sine wave or not. (same with a lot of the wall warts... they change ac to dc). I

That's been my experience.  The 2000 watt Heart inverter in our RV
doesn't make a true sine wave either.  The microwave sounds different
using power from the inverter, but, it works, and I've never noticed
anything different using it for everything else.  Wife runs her laptop
off the inverter power all the time with no problem.
BF Lake - 13 Nov 2005 15:49 GMT
> The inverter thing works fine for me. Don't worry about the sine wave
> nonsense..

From my 400 watt cheapo inverter's manual:
"Caution!  Output non-sinusoidal. Some chargers for small nickel-cadmium
batteries can be damaged if connected to the Digital Power Inverter.  Do not
use the Digital Power Inverter with the following equipment:
-Small battery-operated appliances like rechargeable flashlights, some
rechargeable shavers, and night lights that are plugged directly into an AC
receptacle to recharge.
-Battery chargers used in power tools.... "

Also, RVer's how-to books mention this, eg when using a generator to power a
battery charger for the RV's  batteries, some battery chargers need true
sine wave AC and some smaller generator/inverters put out modified sine wave
AC.

> use a walmart inverter for the laptop/camera/cellphone/flashlight/etc, and
> have never had a problem.

 Still seems like a smart move to confirm any particular charger will work
with the inverter before plugging it in!

Regards,
Barry
b b - 13 Nov 2005 15:51 GMT
> My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide area
> of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect to spend most
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Dick Snyder

We're in our 5th year of half timing in our RV, and chose to go the
inverter route, with a 300 watt modified sine wave unit costing under
$50. Everything we've tried to run with this unit has run well. In
addition to charging the cellphone, laptop and camera batteries, we can
run the built in TV from it (if we turn the TV on a few times to charge
up the degaussing circuit so it no longer causes the inverter to shut
down on overload) and an electric drill and soldering gun.  I can't
think of other small appliances we've used, but they would also work if
we came upon them.  The inverter has worked fine other than annual
lubrication (by cutting through the label that seals the bearing, and
resealing with tape after adding lube) and cleaning of the computer
style fan that cools it.  We recently changed cellphones, and the new
charger plugs right in to the 110v inverter, no new 12v charger
required.  This works well for us, is flexible, and seemed much less
costly going in.

To run the TV I did wire the inverter directly to a spare 30 amp breaker
on the DC distribution panel with short heavy wire.  It would not do it
from the cigarette lighter plug.

HTH,
Barrie B
Healeyman - 13 Nov 2005 16:10 GMT
Dick,

Unless you plan to power more than laptops, camera, and cell phone
batteries, you sure don't  need the cost, size, or expense of a 400 watt
inverter.

When we travel, either in our Class C, or our Suburban, I have a laptop with
GPS and two cell phones plugged into one of these using a 3-way outlet.  I
also use it to power my two 4-AA cell camera battery chargers.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2123204&cp=&kw=inverte
r&parentPage=search

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2123203&cp=&kw=inverte
r&parentPage=search

Mine is a 75 watt (60 watt continuous and 75 watts peak) and in more than
two years have never had any problem with the device shutting down due to
overdraw or any problem with the devices powered.

I'm running pretty close to my inverter peak output, because sometimes when
I turn off the ignition, the inverter will kick off because the lighter
socket supply voltage drops from 14.5 volts to the battery 12 volts when the
alternator stops.  Then the load overdraws the inverter and it shut off to
protect itself.

BUT, you don't want to leave these on with the engine off anyway.

By-the-way, I also have a 350 watt inverter that I started off with and a
2,000 watt inverter in the RV, but I still use one of these for the
convenience

Tim

***************************************************************

> My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide area
> of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect to spend most
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Dick Snyder
J Harris - 13 Nov 2005 23:28 GMT
> Dick,
>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>>
>>Dick Snyder

Yes BUT - If you are using a newer Dell laptop you cannot get away with
a 75 Watt inverter.  Dell, as far as I know does not sell an adaptor for
the Inspiron 8000 or 5000 series.  The power adaptors they use are 90
watt units.  If you use the lower powered units you will burn up the
charging board.

Be sure of what laptop you're using and it's power requirements.

JH
Will Sill - 13 Nov 2005 17:54 GMT
I see where "Dick Snyder" <REMOVE-dicksnyder@comcast.net> contributed:
>My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide area
>of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect to spend most
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>the inverters are larger than the special purpose laptop device. Can I hear
>from those of you who have confronted this issue?

BTDT.  We have used our 1500w modified sine wave inverter to power the
laptop's wall wart for many miles - and also successfully used a $25
"Powerline 75 Watt Peak" inverter from (where else?) Wal-Mart. The
only problem with the latter is that it easily jiggles out of the
goofy "lighter socket" - another example of Dumb Design.

Don't ask me why 'puters are not designed to take a straight 12-15vdc
input, but AFAIK no popular model is made that way.

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Jon Porter - 14 Nov 2005 01:24 GMT
> Don't ask me why 'puters are not designed to take a straight 12-15vdc
> input, but AFAIK no popular model is made that way.

It's mostly a weight issue. The manufacturers tout about how little their
products weigh and how small they are by removing the 110 volt part of the
power supply out of the case into that power brick. I have an old Toshiba
that is not like that, a 110 cord plugs directly into the case.
Signature

Jon
JPinOH

Unk - 14 Nov 2005 01:43 GMT
>My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide area
>of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect to spend most
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Dick Snyder

I have a DC-Laptop battery charger.  It works just fine.  

But, why do you not expect hookups?  We have camped at a number of
state and federal CG's and had electric hookup at many.  And of
course, there are hundreds of very nice campgrounds.  In addition,
small generators are inexpensive and rather quiet (before 10PM)  they
are all LOUD after 10.

Unk
Steve Barker LT - 14 Nov 2005 02:57 GMT
I use the little 175w unit sold at walmart and plugs into the cig lighter.
Charges the laptop, camera batteries, phone, etc.

Signature

Steve Barker

> My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide
> area of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect to spend
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Dick Snyder
William Boyd - 14 Nov 2005 03:56 GMT
> I use the little 175w unit sold at walmart and plugs into the cig lighter.
> Charges the laptop, camera batteries, phone, etc.

See what they say about using inverters in this link.
http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm

Signature

BILL P.
Just Dog
  &
 ME

Steve Barker LT - 14 Nov 2005 05:52 GMT
page cannot be displayed.

Signature

Steve Barker

>> I use the little 175w unit sold at walmart and plugs into the cig
>> lighter. Charges the laptop, camera batteries, phone, etc.
>>
> See what they say about using inverters in this link.
> http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm
SteveB - 14 Nov 2005 09:12 GMT
> page cannot be displayed.

"The 12 volt side of life" came right up for me.  Your computer must be
ready to crash.

Steve

>>> I use the little 175w unit sold at walmart and plugs into the cig
>>> lighter. Charges the laptop, camera batteries, phone, etc.
>>>
>> See what they say about using inverters in this link.
>> http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm
Steve Barker - 17 Nov 2005 22:47 GMT
Yeah, that's it.  Still doesn't work today.

probably a virus site anyway.

steve

>> page cannot be displayed.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>> See what they say about using inverters in this link.
>>> http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm
iDillinger - 14 Nov 2005 11:45 GMT
"page cannot be displayed"

Your inverter must be overloaded - lol.

> page cannot be displayed.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> See what they say about using inverters in this link.
>> http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm
William Boyd - 14 Nov 2005 16:07 GMT
> page cannot be displayed.

Try this one;http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm

Signature

BILL P.
Just Dog
  &
 ME

Steve Barker - 17 Nov 2005 22:48 GMT
page cannot be displayed.

s

>> page cannot be displayed.
>>
> Try this one;http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm
William Boyd - 17 Nov 2005 23:31 GMT
> page cannot be displayed.
>
> s

Now I'm having problems with it, I have had it on my favorites for
about a year and referred to it many times. Hope they have not taken
it off because it was a great help.
Here is a site with an inverter on it that I am considering
ordering. There are comments about the sine and true sine inverters
might help you. I know the other site that wont come up any more
indicated the modified sine inverter would run a charger with out
damaging it. It suposidely requires a true sine wave inverter to run
my printer. The Belkin Battery bank charger I use for computer back
up I think requires at least a modified sine wave power source.
So putting it all together I think a 600watt true sine wave inverter
is what I'll get. http://www.powerstream.com/in3s.htm
Signature


BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog

HD in NY - 18 Nov 2005 15:10 GMT
>> page cannot be displayed.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> a year and referred to it many times. Hope they have not taken it off
> because it was a great help.
snipped

I just went to;
<http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm>

No problem with it.
Hugh
Dick Snyder - 14 Nov 2005 11:52 GMT
Thanks for the website - it is excellent.

>> I use the little 175w unit sold at walmart and plugs into the cig
>> lighter. Charges the laptop, camera batteries, phone, etc.
>>
> See what they say about using inverters in this link.
> http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm
Dapper Dave - 16 Nov 2005 01:11 GMT
>"Dick Snyder" <REMOVE-dicksnyder@comcast.net> wrote:

>My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide area
>of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect to spend most
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Dick Snyder

We have been recharging several cell phones, several laptops, a camera,
walkie talkies, three Palm Pilots, a hand vac, cordless headsets,
rechargeable AA cells, and a cordless drill for over three years from
inverters. Our modified sine wave inverters have never caused a problem
with any of them.

It's a whole lot easier than developing a solution for recharging each
device.

Signature

DD

GeoffP - 16 Nov 2005 01:16 GMT
> >"Dick Snyder" <REMOVE-dicksnyder@comcast.net> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> It's a whole lot easier than developing a solution for recharging each
> device.

WOW Dave...You are speaking heresy on this News group LOL
Geoff
BF Lake - 16 Nov 2005 20:59 GMT
> > We have been recharging several cell phones, several laptops, a camera,
> > walkie talkies, three Palm Pilots, a hand vac, cordless headsets,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> > It's a whole lot easier than developing a solution for recharging each
> > device.

> WOW Dave...You are speaking heresy on this News group LOL

Hey, if all else fails, read the instructions!  Also,  I found today in a RV
electical systems book that one thing modified sine wave invertors can eat
is laser printers and fax machines, which have SCRs or triacs.  Luckily it
said that an SCR is a thyristor ("I knew that!" everyone is saying) which is
a silicone controlled rectifier or a pair of them as a filter.  It seems
they go tits up if you feed them non-sinusiodal power.

Regards,
Barry
Dapper Dave - 20 Nov 2005 23:57 GMT
>"BF Lake" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote:

>> > We have been recharging several cell phones, several laptops, a camera,
>> > walkie talkies, three Palm Pilots, a hand vac, cordless headsets,
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Regards,
>Barry

Now, that's useful information. I have been considering replacing our
inkjet printer with a cheap monochrome laser printer. It never occurred
to me that it may not work with our inverter.

Thanks.

Signature

DD

b b - 21 Nov 2005 02:19 GMT
> >is laser printers and fax machines, which have SCRs or triacs.  Luckily it
> >said that an SCR is a thyristor ("I knew that!" everyone is saying) which is
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks.

In addition to any SCR problems, which I know nothing about, laser
printers take MUCH more current to run than inkjets.  I had trouble
running a neighbor's laser printer with my 4 KW gas generator during a
power outage.  The laser printers have heaters to bake the powdered ink
onto the paper....

For the RV, I'll stay with the inkjet.... but then I do not have
anything bigger than a 300 watt inverter either.

HTH,
Barrie B
Dapper Dave - 21 Nov 2005 23:20 GMT
>b b <Barrie@juno.com> wrote:

>> >is laser printers and fax machines, which have SCRs or triacs.  Luckily it
>> >said that an SCR is a thyristor ("I knew that!" everyone is saying) which is
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>HTH,
>Barrie B

Another good point. I'll check the power requirements before making the
switch.

Thanks, Barrie.

Signature

DD

Jayseebee - 16 Nov 2005 04:28 GMT
> My wife and I are taking a one month RV trip in the continental divide area
> of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming next June. We don't expect to spend most
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Dick Snyder

Ok, here is something. I have a 400watt inverter. It will power up a
drill, tv and a shortwave receiver. I plug my laptop wall wart into it
and it shows "SC" for short circuit. Yet the wall wart works fine from
the house outlet to power and charge the laptop? wazzup?  JCB
b b - 16 Nov 2005 14:46 GMT
> Ok, here is something. I have a 400watt inverter. It will power up a
> drill, tv and a shortwave receiver. I plug my laptop wall wart into it
> and it shows "SC" for short circuit. Yet the wall wart works fine from
> the house outlet to power and charge the laptop? wazzup?  JCB

Maybe you've found one of the laptop wall warts that someone warned
about that does not work from modified sine wave?  My Dell works fine on
our 300 watt modified sine wave inverter.

Wondering too....
Barrie B
William Boyd - 17 Nov 2005 23:39 GMT
>>Ok, here is something. I have a 400watt inverter. It will power up a
>>drill, tv and a shortwave receiver. I plug my laptop wall wart into it
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Wondering too....
> Barrie B
OR! maybe his inverter is a square sine wave unit, that will run
some things and not others.

Signature

BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog

BF Lake - 19 Nov 2005 15:46 GMT
> >>Ok, here is something. I have a 400watt inverter. It will power up a
> >>drill, tv and a shortwave receiver. I plug my laptop wall wart into it
> >>and it shows "SC" for short circuit. Yet the wall wart works fine from
> >>the house outlet to power and charge the laptop? wazzup?  JCB

> > Maybe you've found one of the laptop wall warts that someone warned
> > about that does not work from modified sine wave?  My Dell works fine on
> > our 300 watt modified sine wave inverter.

> OR! maybe his inverter is a square sine wave unit, that will run
> some things and not others.

Learned something about why some battery chargers are no good with modified
sine wave AC that some generators and some invertors produce.  Those battery
chargers use SCRs -silicon controlled rectifiers- to rectify the AC into DC
that then goes to the battery.   SCRs are the same things that are in laser
printers etc that also are mentioned as requiring true sine wave AC input to
work right.

Don't know how you find out if a thing has SCRs in it or not.  Guess if they
have an 800 number for tech support they would know.

Regards,
Barry
Pumper Hinkle - 18 Nov 2005 18:35 GMT
I bought the optional  (and pricey) 12v charger unit for my laptop as I
thought I could use it on airlines.    Turned out I could only use it if I
traveled 1st class.    It works fine in the truck and plugged into the 12v
outlet in the trailer.   But I wouldn't do it again.   A waste of money for
my purposes.

On the other hand, I have a small, inexpensive, inverter which I plug into
the cig. lighter of the car and have used it to recharge (at separate and
various times) the computer, cordless drill, cell phone, walkie-talkie, and
hand lantern.    Have never experienced any problems with it or any of my
devices.   Don't know anything about sine waves, gonna have to do some
research on this.
BF Lake - 18 Nov 2005 19:48 GMT
"Pumper Hinkle" <pumperhinkle@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:p9pff.872
> On the other hand, I have a small, inexpensive, inverter which I plug into
> the cig. lighter of the car and have used it to recharge (at separate and
> various times) the computer, cordless drill, cell phone, walkie-talkie, and
> hand lantern.    Have never experienced any problems with it or any of my
> devices.   Don't know anything about sine waves, gonna have to do some
> research on this.

Seems most things work ok.  The operator instructions that come with
whichever invertor you have should say if not to use it with certain
equipment. (Mine do anyway) Maybe those instructions overdo it a bit so they
don't get sued for not warning people? I don't know if the instructions that
come with the different equipments have similar warnings. You can use power
tools, but are warned against those with battery chargers in them getting
damaged   It seems that laser printers and fax machines which have SCRs and
triac thyristors) need true sine wave AC--except maybe if they have
additional gizmos in their circuits ("snubbers" were mentioned, eg)

If you just plug her in and see what happens, mostly you will get away with
it.  If you don't, it's only money! :)

Regards,
Barry
 
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