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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / December 2005

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Nova Scotia RV Parking Ban Study - Report Available

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Andy - 20 Nov 2005 00:13 GMT
Hello,

    I have posted on my website the results of the on-line 'Survey on
the Effect on RV Tourism of the Overnight Parking Ban in Nova Scotia'
that some of you took last summer. The survey is contained in a larger
study of Nova Scotia's RVer parking ban and the potentially stifling
aspects of regulation of campgrounds here. The report may be
interesting for you to read even if your have no desire to visit Nova
Scotia. For instance, I was surprised by how many RVers stay overnight
in parking lots and their strong opinions about observing  'parking
lot etiquette'. There is a lot of other information about the
characteristics of RVers.

    The most dramatic finding of the study is that RV tourism in Nova
Scotia is being crippled by the ban and the accompanying reputation of
being 'RV unfriendly'. According to survey evidence, removing the ban
would increase RV tourism in the Province by up to 83%. Jurisdictions
thinking of banning RVers staying overnight in parking lots, or those
that already do, should be aware of the possibly significant negative
effects on RV tourism.

    The full  report is more than 110 printed pages. On my website there
are options for downloading the main report (68 pages), comments of
respondents to the survey (41 pages), and the survey form (2 pages).

    The report is still a 'work in progress' and I expect that it may
need more editing. I spent a day to trying to get the pages of the main
report aligned with the data tables and text in a PDF file. While
testing the download of the main report I received an error from
Acrobat (error reading linearized hint data), but clicking the link
again seemed to solve it. A more satisfactory approach may be to
download the report and save it to a file before opening it with
Acrobat. Instructions on how to do this are on the download web page.

    The URL of my website is:

www.geocities.com/cornwaab

    If you read the report I hope that you find it interesting. Please e-
mail me about any major errors you find. Thank you, RVers, for
contributing significantly to this study.

Andrew (Andy) Cornwall
Enfield, Nova Scotia
William Boyd - 20 Nov 2005 04:45 GMT
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> Andrew (Andy) Cornwall
> Enfield, Nova Scotia

To review the report would not change any thing about my intentions
of visiting Nova Scotia. Basically the people there do not want
RVers in their area. For them to change their rules and allow us to
come back would be purely a monetary decision on their part. It
would not reflect any thing about friendship or the desires to share
the beauties of their country. When I was stationed in Newfoundland
we traveled to Nova Scotia extensively. I have a son that was born
up there and now lives in Maine. Our travels while I am visiting him
from now on will no longer include Nova Scotia.

I'm sure if you think about it you will see my point of view.
Although there are many beautiful places in your home area, but they
exist in ares where people appreciate our visits as well.

Signature

BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog

Mark Tetrault - 20 Nov 2005 14:10 GMT
>To review the report would not change any thing about my intentions
>of visiting Nova Scotia. Basically the people there do not want
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Although there are many beautiful places in your home area, but they
>exist in ares where people appreciate our visits as well.

I don't know where in Nova Scotia you have been but in my travels there and
being a property owner on Cape Breton, I have yet to meet friendlier
people. And the parks and CGs have plenty of RVs in them.

Mark
Hp - 20 Nov 2005 14:38 GMT
I would love to visit Nova Scotia,but the ban on roadside camping is too
stringent. While I always stay in campgrounds I want to be able to park
overnight in a parking lot if I run in to the situation where either I have
a vehicle emergency or the area campgrounds are full.  Other than that I
want a nice campground resort.

>>To review the report would not change any thing about my intentions
>>of visiting Nova Scotia. Basically the people there do not want
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Mark
Joe Bedford - 21 Nov 2005 18:14 GMT
"Mark Tetrault" <mdtetrault@highstream.net> wrote in message > I don't know
where in Nova Scotia you have been but in my travels there and
> being a property owner on Cape Breton, I have yet to meet friendlier
> people. And the parks and CGs have plenty of RVs in them.

It's not the PEOPLE, it their GOVERNMENT. A PERSON won't tell me to leave
Walmart in the middle of the night - an agent of the GOVERNMENT will (i.e.
police officer probably)

Cheers, Joe
GeoffP - 20 Nov 2005 20:16 GMT
>> Hello,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> there are many beautiful places in your home area, but they exist in ares
> where people appreciate our visits as well.

Bill, You can't judge the friendless of the people by the actions of the
Local council. To boycott a whole province for that reason is ridiculous.
Some of the speed traps in North America are a much better reason to
boycott.
Geoff.
William Boyd - 21 Nov 2005 00:09 GMT
> "William Boyd" <williamboyd@cableone.net> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> boycott.
> Geoff.

You had me wondering there for a while, so I looked it up.
Sure nuf, Nova Scotia is a democratic Provence, that comes out to be
that the local council represents the people and the people is who
put the members in office. Majority rules, so the majority of folks
in Nova Scotia do not want RVs in a parking lot.
By the way do you know off hand the price of an average camp ground
 spot that has no facilities in Nova Scotia. While you are at it
what is the average price of a camp site in a privately owned camp
ground.
As for speed traps in North America, I agree, does Nova Scotia have
those also. I look for those down here we like to have any of those
little town police forces taken over by the State Police when they
are found setting up speed traps that are bogus. But for catching
those who do actually speed that is not a trap.

Signature

BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog

BF Lake - 21 Nov 2005 00:39 GMT
> You had me wondering there for a while, so I looked it up.
> Sure nuf, Nova Scotia is a democratic Provence, that comes out to be
> that the local council represents the people and the people is who
> put the members in office. Majority rules, so the majority of folks
> in Nova Scotia do not want RVs in a parking lot.

Bill,  the last time I lived in NS, the way it worked was, eg if the other
party formed the new government after an election, all the school busses
suddenly got their gas from a different gas station.  The prisons now
ordered their food from a different grocery chain.   The snow plow driver
was replaced by a new guy.

Maybe the campground owners are known Party supporters and one has a
brother in law who is in government.
That's your democracy in action.  The population going to the polls have
zero influence over RV rules

Regards,
Barry
GeoffP - 21 Nov 2005 02:13 GMT
>> "William Boyd" <williamboyd@cableone.net> wrote in message
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> up speed traps that are bogus. But for catching those who do actually
> speed that is not a trap.

==
I agree with what you say, But..The Canadian police do not get a cut of the
speeding fines, so it's a little different. As to the people deciding what
is done, you must know how it works. You elect a council or government and
HOPE that they listen to you. Does Bush ring a bell?
Geoff.
RAOMER@K7NO.COM - 22 Nov 2005 01:29 GMT
>I agree with what you say, But..The Canadian police do not get a cut of the
>speeding fines, so it's a little different. As to the people deciding what
>is done, you must know how it works. You elect a council or government and
>HOPE that they listen to you. Does Bush ring a bell?
>Geoff.

YOu uninformed hate is showing.

unk
GeoffP - 23 Nov 2005 02:26 GMT
>>I agree with what you say, But..The Canadian police do not get a cut of
>>the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> unk
--
Yup, from your point of view....But it's not hate. It's sympathy with the
rest of the people who don't believe as you do.
Geoff.
Joe Bedford - 21 Nov 2005 18:16 GMT
> Bill, You can't judge the friendless of the people by the actions of the
> Local council. To boycott a whole province for that reason is ridiculous.
> Some of the speed traps in North America are a much better reason to
> boycott.

You're wrong.

I say that because you called my point of view "ridiculous". Just becasue
YOU don't agree with something doesn't mean it's "ridiculous". Like you, I
used to think I was perfect, but now I respect other peoples' opinions.

Cheers, Joe
RAOMER@K7NO.COM - 22 Nov 2005 01:32 GMT
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:16:22 -0500, "Joe Bedford"

>I say that because you called my point of view "ridiculous". Just becasue
>YOU don't agree with something doesn't mean it's "ridiculous". Like you, I
>used to think I was perfect, but now I respect other peoples' opinions.
>
>Cheers, Joe

Socialists allow freedom of speech so long as the speech conforms to
their view.

unk
GeoffP - 23 Nov 2005 02:12 GMT
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:16:22 -0500, "Joe Bedford"
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> unk

Another childish one liner from unk (Unk?)
I am not  a Socialist but you are totally wrong with your assumption.
Socialists are not communist. A word that seems to strike terror in your
area of the continent. Look at the sh.t you are in right now because another
country didn't agree with YOUR idea of freedom. For your information, in
Canada, Conservatives and Liberals seem to tie for votes right now. The
Socialists are far down the list.
Geoff.
Will Sill - 23 Nov 2005 13:11 GMT
I see where "GeoffP" <Geoff@nospam.com> contributed:

>I am not  a Socialist but you are totally wrong with your assumption.
>Socialists are not communist. A word that seems to strike terror in your
>area of the continent. Look at the sh.t you are in right now because another
>country didn't agree with YOUR idea of freedom. For your information, in
>Canada, Conservatives and Liberals seem to tie for votes right now. The
>Socialists are far down the list.

Geoff, you might want to reconsider.   The difference between the
Socialist and Communist points of view is pretty small, despite
rhetoric by the former trying to distance themselves from the latter.
The bottom line is that adherents to either POV feel it is the right
and responsibility of the State to control the lives of all,
redistributing wealth in accordance with the thinking of Marx, Engels,
Lenin at al.

Party labels generally mean little, since it is the habit of Canadian
and US politicians (as alsewhere in the world) to disguise their true
allegiance by presenting themselves and their ideas in what they think
is a favorable light.

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Joe Bedford - 23 Nov 2005 13:58 GMT
> Party labels generally mean little, since it is the habit of Canadian
> and US politicians (as alsewhere in the world) to disguise their true
> allegiance by presenting themselves and their ideas in what they think
> is a favorable light.

I rarely get drawn into political discussions but all the politicians in our
so-called democracies are playing the same game following the same rules.
The differences between the parties is nothing more than strategy of how
best to use / break the rules to their party's advantage.

Cheers, Joe
GeoffP - 25 Nov 2005 00:42 GMT
>I see where "GeoffP" <Geoff@nospam.com> contributed:
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Will Sill
> The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
My life is not controlled any more than yours Will. We have some laws that
you wouldn't like, but that I appreciate. You have some laws that I wouldn't
like too.  We are a different Country than the US, but very far away from
being Communist. As I said in my last post the Socialists are in the
minority.( And they are nothing like your view of them.)
Geoff.
Tatiele - 25 Nov 2005 04:38 GMT
Thank God for that.

"GeoffP" <Geoff@nospam.com> wrote in message news:h6thf.7252

"We are a different Country than the US"
Ken Harrison - 25 Nov 2005 07:30 GMT
> Thank God for that.
>
> "GeoffP" <Geoff@nospam.com> wrote in message news:h6thf.7252
>
> "We are a different Country than the US"

And better off they are for it!

KH
Tatiele - 25 Nov 2005 15:33 GMT
Canada better off?  - lol.

That'll be the day. You must be an American. Only Americans (at least non
Military or ex Military) puts down there own country.

Why don't you move over there and hold hands and sing kumbaya.

Where the hell did patriotism go?

>> Thank God for that.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> KH
Jon Porter - 26 Nov 2005 01:54 GMT
> Canada better off?  - lol.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Where the hell did patriotism go?

Patriots were born from the loins of a government that they questioned.
Jim Redelfs - 26 Nov 2005 13:47 GMT
> Patriots were born from the loins of a government that they questioned.

Then kwitcherbichin and start your revolution.

Sheesh!
                  :(
JR
William Boyd - 25 Nov 2005 04:56 GMT
>>I see where "GeoffP" <Geoff@nospam.com> contributed:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> minority.( And they are nothing like your view of them.)
> Geoff.

My research of the vast number of rules and laws in Nova Scotia
leads me to think of a police state. Seems as though every move a
person makes is under scrutiny by the authorities. I just started
out looking at the or for the RV parking thing and so many other
things came in to view. I cannot believe the total control the
government has placed over the citizens of Canada, surely this is
not the way it is all over the entire country. Any one doubting what
I am saying just go look around yourself.
http://www.geocities.com/cornwaab/ns_parking_ban.html
Just as a starting point.

Signature

BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog

Ken Harrison - 25 Nov 2005 07:32 GMT
> My research of the vast number of rules and laws in Nova Scotia leads
> me to think of a police state. Seems as though every move a person
> makes is under scrutiny by the authorities.

But of course the FBI having the right to check your library records is
perfectly acceptable.

KH
Tatiele - 25 Nov 2005 15:34 GMT
If it means that some inbred jackass won't come and park a fertilizer bomb
next to my kids school then they can put listening device in my restroom.

>> My research of the vast number of rules and laws in Nova Scotia leads
>> me to think of a police state. Seems as though every move a person
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> KH
unk - 27 Nov 2005 20:57 GMT
>> My research of the vast number of rules and laws in Nova Scotia leads
>> me to think of a police state. Seems as though every move a person
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>KH

You bet your bippy.  You Canucks (meant lovingly as I have a number of
close friends from AB and BC) didn't have nearly 3000 people murdered
by a bunch of radical savages.  BUT, you are going to as you are wide
open for it.  I am not perfectly happy with some of the new
regulations enacted in the name of terror prevention under knee jerk
conditions.  However, I have yet to hear of a claim of civil rights
violations because of them.

unk
Dan - 28 Nov 2005 18:06 GMT
>>> My research of the vast number of rules and laws in Nova Scotia leads
>>> me to think of a police state. Seems as though every move a person
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> unk

Almost every European country has had terrorist attacks, and not one of them
has become paranoid as we have, and every one of them is a lot closer to all
this terrorists then the US and Canada.
Alan Pollock - 29 Nov 2005 07:19 GMT
> Almost every European country has had terrorist attacks, and not one of them
> has become paranoid as we have, and every one of them is a lot closer to all
> this terrorists then the US and Canada.

Then you know very little about some EuroCountries. Take France, then learn a
few things. Our freedoms under the patriot act make France look like a prison
camp. Nex
Al - 05 Dec 2005 17:26 GMT
>>> My research of the vast number of rules and laws in Nova Scotia leads
>>> me to think of a police state. Seems as though every move a person
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> unk

Moreover, as long as you guys keep electing retards, I would opine that the
US is by far the larger treat to Canada then terrorists, if unconvinced
peruse this site. http://www.wimp.com/invading/  Mind you there is that
remote chance that Canada could be mistaken for Australia.
Ken Harrison - 06 Dec 2005 06:40 GMT
> Moreover, as long as you guys keep electing retards, I would opine
> that the US is by far the larger treat to Canada then terrorists, if
> unconvinced peruse this site. http://www.wimp.com/invading/  Mind you
> there is that remote chance that Canada could be mistaken for
> Australia.

Thanks for the wonderful link, Al.  That sums up quite a lot about us,
I'm sorry to say.

Ken H
Tatiele - 06 Dec 2005 14:58 GMT
You fool.

Have some respect for a sitting Presidency.

You Guys are a confused egoistic lot up there aren't you.

>> Moreover, as long as you guys keep electing retards, I would opine
>> that the US is by far the larger treat to Canada then terrorists, if
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Ken H
Al - 06 Dec 2005 18:52 GMT
> You fool.
>
> Have some respect for a sitting Presidency.
>
> You Guys are a confused egoistic lot up there aren't you.

Respect is something you have to earn, dear chap and that is something your
sitting lame duck has failed miserably in the international community.

>>> Moreover, as long as you guys keep electing retards, I would opine
>>> that the US is by far the larger treat to Canada then terrorists, if
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>
>> Ken H
Tatiele - 07 Dec 2005 06:21 GMT
Well I would rather have Clinton still be in there BUT come on, what does a
passive and cuddled country such as Canada knows about international
community?

Tatiele, proud of his host country and it's people for the sacrifices they
have given the world.

>> You fool.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>>>
>>> Ken H
Al - 07 Dec 2005 17:48 GMT
> Well I would rather have Clinton still be in there BUT come on, what does
> a passive and cuddled country such as Canada knows about international
> community?
>
> Tatiele, proud of his host country and it's people for the sacrifices they
> have given the world.

At the very least we know where Iran and North Korea is located and would
not be pointing at Australia each and every time

http://www.wimp.com/invading/

>> Respect is something you have to earn, dear chap and that is something
>> your sitting lame duck has failed miserably in the international
>> community.
GeoffP - 07 Dec 2005 18:20 GMT
>> Well I would rather have Clinton still be in there BUT come on, what does
>> a passive and cuddled country such as Canada knows about international
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> http://www.wimp.com/invading/
LOL.
Geoff.

>>> Respect is something you have to earn, dear chap and that is something
>>> your sitting lame duck has failed miserably in the international
>>> community.
William Boyd - 08 Dec 2005 01:23 GMT
>>>Well I would rather have Clinton still be in there BUT come on, what does
>>>a passive and cuddled country such as Canada knows about international
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>>>your sitting lame duck has failed miserably in the international
>>>>community.

I think that was a put up job. The map outline of Australia had the
names of the countries in question on it. One might have only looked
at the name and not considered the shape. You know something like
the questionare about Bush! ;-)

Signature

BILL P.
Just Dog
  &
 ME

Al - 08 Dec 2005 17:16 GMT
>>>>Well I would rather have Clinton still be in there BUT come on, what
>>>>does
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> and not considered the shape. You know something like the questionare
> about Bush! ;-)

Nah these rubes would have done the same if the labels were placed on Mexico
or Canada
William Boyd - 08 Dec 2005 18:33 GMT
>>>>>Well I would rather have Clinton still be in there BUT come on, what
>>>>>does
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Nah these rubes would have done the same if the labels were placed on Mexico
> or Canada

Well, that is what I was saying, they did not look at the map they
read the name. If you look at the presentation again, you can see
the names labeled on the map. Although I agree, they are not the
brightest light on the tree.

Signature

BILL P.
Just Dog
  &
 ME

Tatiele - 08 Dec 2005 04:25 GMT
I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I wanted to have a
laugh.

That you think those functioning illiterates are representatives of NASA,
FBI, Harvard, is laughable at least.

>> Well I would rather have Clinton still be in there BUT come on, what does
>> a passive and cuddled country such as Canada knows about international
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>>> your sitting lame duck has failed miserably in the international
>>> community.
Al - 08 Dec 2005 17:16 GMT
>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I wanted to have a
>laugh.

And where is that in Australia?
Tatiele - 09 Dec 2005 03:32 GMT
You moron.

I have lived on ALL the continents in the world you fool.

>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I wanted to have a
>>laugh.
>
> And where is that in Australia?
Al - 09 Dec 2005 19:58 GMT
> You moron.
>
> I have lived on ALL the continents in the world you fool.

I do believe that Bush and Blair should be prosecuted for crimes against
humanity; do you suppose Guantanamo Bay would the ideal place to hold them
until trial?

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NOBEL_LITERATURE_SPEECH?SITE=MIBAX&SE
CTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Jim Redelfs - 10 Dec 2005 01:40 GMT
> I do believe that Bush and Blair should be
> prosecuted for crimes against humanity;

"Good" idea.

Then you can restore Saddam to his rightful position as President/dictator of
Iraq.  You would, of course, turn a blind eye to the horrendous blood bath
that would follow.  Once that magnanimous and humanitarian task is done, you
could set about to restore the Taliban to Afghanistan.

Of course, they would be so grateful that they would NEVER dream of allowing
Al-Qaida back into the country to resume training and preparing for future
terrorist attacks.  After all, Bush (and Blair) are responsible for creating
the terrorists:  If we hadn't INVADED these countries in the first place, they
wouldn't have blown-up and destroyed all the places and people they did.

Wait...  They did all those "understandable" things BEFORE we invaded.  Aw,
who cares?  All that matters is that Bush sucks!

> do you suppose Guantanamo Bay would the
> ideal place to hold them until trial?

Club Gitmo?  Nah.  That place is entirely too NICE for the likes of scum like
Bush and Blair:  Three square meals/day that put to shame what they feed
school children in the US and UK, prayer five times/day, air conditioning,
yadda, yadda...

Then again, unspeakable TORTURE like sleep deprivation, slapping and
humiliation might be just what they deserve.

Seriously...

Thank GOD the slimy leftists are out of power in the US.  Sending VOLUNTEERS
into combat, only to then stab them in the back by doing everything and
anything to demoralize and neuter them is beneath contempt.

What's even more encouraging is that the left's descent into oblivion appears
to be ongoing.  I can't wait for '06 and '08.)

The EASIST way to LOSE a war:  Quit.

           :)
JR
Tatiele - 10 Dec 2005 05:46 GMT
But at least we sent armed Men to war not pansy Canadian midwives.

>> I do believe that Bush and Blair should be
>> prosecuted for crimes against humanity;
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>            :)
> JR
John Ramsay - 10 Dec 2005 07:32 GMT
> But at least we sent armed Men to war not pansy Canadian midwives.

Canada sent armed men to Afghanistan.

To support its US ally.

Among those armed men, Canada sent a sniper team
to Afghanistan that saved more than a few US a.ses,
at considerable danger to themselves.

Also among those armed men, Canada sent
4 soldiers there that were killed by a US pilot.

Get your facts straight before you insult
an important ally, otherwise your ally won't
much want to be allied to you any more.

You owe an apology, an abject one, to the
courageous and effective Canadian sniper
team and the brave and dead Canadian soldiers.

> >> I do believe that Bush and Blair should be
> >> prosecuted for crimes against humanity;
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> >            :)
> > JR
Unk - 15 Dec 2005 01:52 GMT
>> But at least we sent armed Men to war not pansy Canadian midwives.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>courageous and effective Canadian sniper
>team and the brave and dead Canadian soldiers.

Toronto Star ^ | December 14, 2005 | Samuel Paradisgarten

Posted on 12/14/2005 6:31:10 PM MST by West Coast Conservative

The UN is in session again and a number of resolutions have been on
the table. An important one dealt with human rights abuses in Darfur.
But, thanks to Sudan's many allies, this resolution was expected to be
defeated and removed from the agenda.

On the table were also 10 resolutions condemning Israel for human
rights abuses. All of them were expected to be passed by the General
Assembly.

Welcome to a typical year at the United Nations.

The Organization of the Islamic Conference — 56 Islamic states, almost
30 per cent of the UN membership — ensures that a mountain of
resolutions and resources are devoted every year to demonizing Israel.
Take, for example, the UN Commission on Human Rights. In the past two
years, Israel has had 101 human rights resolutions passed against it.

Of course, there are other human rights violators on the list. Let's
see: Iran is a well-known human rights violator. It has had two
resolutions passed against it. Syria is another. Well, it merited one
resolution. Saudi Arabia is another offender, known for amputations,
stonings, intolerance toward other religions, political repression,
discrimination and torture. However, all this doesn't seem to bother
the rights commission too much — Saudi Arabia hasn't merited any
resolutions.

Israel has virtually become the focus of the UN. The General Assembly
rarely calls emergency sessions. Rwanda didn't merit one, nor did
Darfur, nor did the Syrian occupation of Lebanon, or the horrors of
Bosnia.

Yet in 2003, the UN called three emergency sessions to condemn Israel.
In addition, in the same year, the General Assembly passed 18
resolutions that singled out Israel for criticism. The entire rest of
mankind — 190 countries, about 6 billion people — drew only four
resolutions.

Last year was similar. The assembly, once again, looked at abuses
around the globe. If you recall, both Darfur and Zimbabwe were in the
news a lot. Nevertheless, proposed resolutions relating to
Sudan/Darfur and Zimbabwe couldn't make it; they were defeated.

However, simultaneously, UN delegates, without too much trouble, were
able to adopt nine resolutions condemning Israel.

Israel's policies are, of course, fair game for legitimate criticism;
but the UN seems to be highly selective with its outrage.

You would think, however, that when it comes to children, the
situation changes, and the UN would agree that the death of a child —
any child — is a tragedy. Evidently not.

A resolution was adopted in November 2003, calling for the protection
of Palestinian children from "Israeli aggression."

Israel, too, sought a resolution of its own, calling for the
protection of Israeli children from terrorism. The Israeli resolution
was not defeated; it could not even gain enough support from the
assembly to come to a vote.

What takes place in the UN, with regard to Israel, "more closely
resembles a mugging than either a political debate or an effort at
problem-solving," declared former U.S. ambassador to the UN, Jeanne
Kirkpatrick.

Ah yes, you say, all this hatred is in response to the occupation of
the West Bank and Gaza. Actually, no.

The West Bank was captured in 1967. The Palestinian charter,
specifically calling for Israel's destruction, was adopted in 1964.
Three times the Arab armies united to annihilate Israel, prior to
Israel taking occupation of the West Bank. Then, after losing the
wars, the Arab league issued its three Nos: no to recognition of
Israel, no to negotiation with Israel, no to peace with Israel.

How does Canada vote in all this? Canada does not stand up to the
Organization of Islamic Conference. Using Kirkpatrick's words, Canada
is with the muggers.

It is hard to believe that a country that prides itself on its moral
leadership in the world, fails so dismally in this regard. Our Prime
Minister has repeatedly reiterated that Canada would no longer go
along with this charade, but each time Canada falls back into its old
voting pattern. It usually votes against Israel or, when it can no
longer stand the smell, it abstains. This happened again recently.

The UN drive to destroy Israel has debased the body, sullied its
charter, and perverted the meaning of human rights. Canada is part of
the problem; it is high time we became part of the solution.
Ken Harrison - 15 Dec 2005 05:59 GMT
> The UN is in session again and a number of resolutions have been on
> the table. An important one dealt with human rights abuses in Darfur.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Welcome to a typical year at the United Nations.  <snip>

While I disagree with some of your points, your careful arguments and
their defense is impressive, and I appreciate your having posted this.

Ken H
Will Sill - 15 Dec 2005 13:03 GMT
I see where Unk <roamer@firstinter.net> posted an excellent article
from the Toronto Star, highlighting the absolutely amazing and
continuing "hate Israel" bias by that organized crime gang on the East
River calling itself the UN.  The article said, in part:

>The Organization of the Islamic Conference — 56 Islamic states, almost
>30 per cent of the UN membership — ensures that a mountain of
>resolutions and resources are devoted every year to demonizing Israel.
>Take, for example, the UN Commission on Human Rights. In the past two
>years, Israel has had 101 human rights resolutions passed against it.
................
>What takes place in the UN, with regard to Israel, "more closely
>resembles a mugging than either a political debate or an effort at
>problem-solving," declared former U.S. ambassador to the UN, Jeanne
>Kirkpatrick.
...............
>The UN drive to destroy Israel has debased the body, sullied its
>charter, and perverted the meaning of human rights.

The UN has been, from it's inception, a force for evil.

Students of Biblical prophesy should not be surprised, since an unholy
alliance of virtually all non-jewish nations is predicted to join in a
huge battle seeking to obliterate Israel from the face of the earth.
God's chosen people are destined to be the center of conflict until
the Messiah returns.

Will Sill - not a Jew
Merry CHRISTmas - not "Holiday","Quizzit",
or "Merchandizing Madness Month".  It's
CHRISTmas.  Got it?
GeoffP - 16 Dec 2005 01:40 GMT
>I see where Unk <roamer@firstinter.net> posted an excellent article
> from the Toronto Star, highlighting the absolutely amazing and
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> or "Merchandizing Madness Month".  It's
> CHRISTmas.  Got it?
--
Will, you often have good arguments until you bring up this Bible fantasy.
It is fiction Will! It is word of mouth passed down through centuries. It's
not bad as an old history tale, but no better. It always amazes me that so
called educated people still believe in the Bible. I know I can't change
your thought pattern. You will never admit you have spent your whole life
believing in a fantasy. You will never know this because when you are dead,
you are dead! No heavenly gates, etc. What a waste of intellect.
Geoff
Ted - 15 Dec 2005 18:43 GMT
> The UN is in session again and a number of resolutions have been on
> the table. An important one dealt with human rights abuses in Darfur.
[quoted text clipped - 85 lines]
> charter, and perverted the meaning of human rights. Canada is part of
> the problem; it is high time we became part of the solution.

Is this your way of saying that if Canada would have voted differently, your
government would have obeyed the UN resolution and abstained  from engaging
in your present needles war that killed just as many Iraqis combined as
Saddam has, or are you just upset because Canada dares to exercise they're
own democratic right to vote as they see fit?
And do be mindful that virtually every conflict where you have been involved
over the last 50 Years, Canada usually ends up to be peace keeping force
after you manage to plunge everything into disarray you will cut and run, or
have you forgotten about Vietnam, Somalia to name a few.
Al - 10 Dec 2005 18:17 GMT
> But at least we sent armed Men to war not pansy Canadian midwives.

There is no doubt in my mind that snots like you would just clean up in
Iraq, or was that you waving the white flag?
Al - 10 Dec 2005 18:17 GMT
> But at least we sent armed Men to war not pansy Canadian midwives.

I just hate to disappoint you tootsie, you see we knew your commander in
chief was a moron about the time he was reading from my pet goat. So
consequently, we did not send any Canadians to Iraq.
Jim Redelfs - 10 Dec 2005 21:23 GMT
> But at least we sent armed Men to war not pansy Canadian midwives.

...said the top-posting, non-editing, cross-posting TWIT with a hard-on for
Canada.
       
           :(
JR
GeoffP - 10 Dec 2005 21:28 GMT
>> But at least we sent armed Men to war not pansy Canadian midwives.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>            :(
> JR
==
Way to go Jim, But your wasting your time with Tatiele, he's a moron for
sure, doesn't like anyone who is superior. LOL
Geoff.
Ken Harrison - 10 Dec 2005 07:11 GMT
>> I do believe that Bush and Blair should be prosecuted for crimes
>> against humanity;
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> President/dictator of Iraq.  You would, of course, turn a blind eye
> to the horrendous blood bath that would follow.
Not that the US and Britain have already been responsible for a
horrendous blood bath.
  Once that
> magnanimous and humanitarian task is done, you could set about to
> restore the Taliban to Afghanistan.
>
> Of course, they would be so grateful that they would NEVER dream of
> allowing Al-Qaida (SIC) back into the country to resume training and
> preparing for future terrorist attacks.
No evidence has EVER been produced to substantiate the presence of Al
Qaeda in Iraq prior to the invasion.  In fact, Hussein's power apparatus
would not have tolerated what might have become a challenge for him.
  After all, Bush (and Blair)
> are responsible for creating the terrorists:
Patently true.  As long as the Iraqis see "the coalition" as occupiers,
there will never be peace.
  If we hadn't INVADED
> these countries in the first place, they wouldn't have blown-up and
> destroyed all the places and people they did.
>
> Wait...  They did all those "understandable" things BEFORE we
> invaded.  Aw, who cares?  All that matters is that Bush sucks!
Again, there is no evidence to support the claim of extra-territorial
terrorism by the Baath people.

>> do you suppose Guantanamo Bay would the ideal place to hold them
>> until trial?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Thank GOD
What makes you think that god is any more on the "coalition" side than
on the Muslim side?  Do you have some sort of hot line that the rest of
us are missing?
 the slimy leftists are out of power in the US.  Sending
> VOLUNTEERS into combat,
Now let's see; Bush allegedly skipped out on his military service.
Cheney received five count them five exemptions from military service.
No Bush or Cheney or Rumsfield or Wolfowitz or Rove offspring has been
sent to Iraq to fight a war that their parents conceived.  Until one of
them suffers as have many decent, everyday people have, they have no
credibility when it comes to understanding the losses of war
 only to then stab them in the back by doing
> everything and anything to demoralize and neuter them is beneath
> contempt.
SUPPORT THE TROOPS.  Get them HOME.

> What's even more encouraging is that the left's descent into oblivion
> appears to be ongoing.  I can't wait for '06 and '08.)
>
> The EASIST way to LOSE a war:  Quit.
There are no winners in war, only losers.  And the Iraqi people as a
nation and the US/British credibility as an example for the rest of the
world to emulate are what have suffered the most.
miles - 10 Dec 2005 17:56 GMT
> No evidence has EVER been produced to substantiate the presence of Al
> Qaeda in Iraq prior to the invasion.

Not true.  There was at least 1 Al Queda camp in northern Iraq.  No
links to Saddam were substantiated although question remain unanswered.

> Patently true.  As long as the Iraqis see "the coalition" as occupiers,
> there will never be peace.

The Iraq war has not produced terrorists.  The liberal left seems to
forget that we were attacked on 9/11 well before this war.  The
terrorists have attacked the USA as well as many other countries
including those that do not support this war before and after 9/11.

>   If we hadn't INVADED
>> these countries in the first place, they wouldn't have blown-up and
>> destroyed all the places and people they did.

Thats absurd logic since they did blow up all those places prior to the
war.
Al - 10 Dec 2005 18:17 GMT
>> I do believe that Bush and Blair should be
>> prosecuted for crimes against humanity;
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> JR

We already established that all of the reasons for war where lies and
deceit, now is the time to bring the war criminals to justice. Read the
following

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NOBEL_LITERATURE_SPEECH?SITE=MIBAX&SE
CTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


Dec 8, 10:56 AM EST

Nobel Laureate Pinter Assails Bush, Blair

By KARL RITTER
Associated Press Writer

STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) -- Nobel literature laureate Harold Pinter slammed
President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair, saying they should be
prosecuted for the invasion of Iraq.

In a special Nobel lecture three days before the award ceremony, the British
playwright said Bush and Blair should be arraigned before the International
Criminal Court.

"The invasion of Iraq was a bandit act, an act of blatant state terrorism,
demonstrating absolute contempt for the concept of international law,"
Pinter said in the recorded lecture presented at the Swedish Academy in
Stockholm on Wednesday.

Pinter, who has been treated for cancer in recent years, was supposed to
have delivered the traditional Nobel lecture in person, but was forced to
cancel his trip to Sweden because of poor health.

His publisher, Stephen Page, will accept the prize on Pinter's behalf at the
award ceremony on Saturday. This year's prize is worth $1.3 million.

In his lecture, which focused more on politics than literature, Pinter
launched a ferocious tirade against Bush and Blair, saying they were
responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the Iraq war.

"How many people do you have to kill before you qualify to be described as a
mass murderer and a war criminal? One hundred thousand?" he asked in a
hoarse voice.

"We have brought torture, cluster bombs, depleted uranium, innumerable acts
of random murder, misery, degradation and death to the Iraqi people and call
it 'bringing freedom and democracy to the Middle East,'" Pinter said.

The Nobel committee has not shied from rewarding writers who make a stand
against authority, notably in rewarding the literature prize to Soviet
dissident Alexander Solzhenitsyn in 1970.

Horace Engdahl, the permanent secretary of the Swedish Academy, introduced
the lecture by saying Pinter was delivering "his free words such as a writer
has a right to say them."

Pinter accused the United States of supporting "every right wing military
dictatorship in the world" after World War II, from Chile to the
Philippines.

"The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious,
remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them," he said.
"It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while
masquerading as a force for universal good. It's a brilliant, even witty,
highly successful act of hypnosis."

Pinter said the U.S. "also has its own bleating little lamb tagging behind
it on a lead, the pathetic and supine Great Britain."

He said both Bush and Blair deserve to be arraigned by the Hague,
Netherlands-based International Criminal Court.

The U.S. has not ratified the court, but Britain has, Pinter noted, urging
court officials to look for Blair at his home.

"We can let the Court have his address if they're interested. It is Number
10, Downing Street, London," he said.

The International Criminal Court is extremely unlikely to prosecute Blair
because it is a court of last resort that will intervene only if national
authorities are unwilling or unable to prosecute war crimes themselves.

Pinter, 75, looked frail when he spoke to the media after winning the Nobel
Prize in October.

In 2002, Pinter, whose works include plays such as "The Caretaker," "The
Room," and "The Birthday Party," revealed he was undergoing treatment for
throat cancer.

---
Ken Harrison - 10 Dec 2005 07:00 GMT
>>You moron.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NOBEL_LITERATURE_SPEECH?SITE=MIBAX&SE
CTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

And to those who would bash President Clinton, I would remark that
"Nobody died when Clinton lied."  There is a qualitative difference
here.  And Clinton produced a budget surplus.  Shrub is putting the
country into such a morass of debt that it will never recover should the
rest of the world come calling at the Treasury.

KH
Lon VanOstran - 10 Dec 2005 13:07 GMT
>   And Clinton produced a budget surplus.

Why is it that so many Liberals are so dishonest that they keep
repeating this bald faced lie, in spite of the fact that any third grade
student can look at the national debt charts and see that it's a lie?

The national debt increased every single year under Bill Clinton, yet we
never run out of people stupid enough to repeat this lie. Do they really
think that we are gonna buy it???????????

Lon
Fred - 10 Dec 2005 19:24 GMT
>>   And Clinton produced a budget surplus.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Lon

The needle on your gramophone is stuck on the LZ track could you insert a
new one? Reasonably smart managers will set the budget at a level that is
achievable and then works hard to be under that target, dumb managers are
just too plain stupid and lack the knowledge, as is the case presently.
Lon VanOstran - 10 Dec 2005 22:30 GMT
> The needle on your gramophone is stuck on the LZ track could you insert a
> new one? Reasonably smart managers will set the budget at a level that is
> achievable and then works hard to be under that target, dumb managers are
> just too plain stupid and lack the knowledge, as is the case presently.

Are you really stupid enough to believe that someone who earns $50,000
per year can have a budget surplus by borrowing another $50,000, telling
everyone he is going to spend $100,000, and then only spending $99,000?

No wonder you are a Liberal. Common sense isn't one of your assets.

Lon
Fred - 11 Dec 2005 19:26 GMT
>> The needle on your gramophone is stuck on the LZ track could you insert a
>> new one? Reasonably smart managers will set the budget at a level that is
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Lon

Gawd no wonder we have lost the war, when we have morons that are clueless
regarding the difference from budget to actual expenditure.
miles - 11 Dec 2005 20:37 GMT
> Gawd no wonder we have lost the war, when we have morons that are clueless
> regarding the difference from budget to actual expenditure.

The so called surplus of the Clinton era was nothing more than a Clinton
WH budget projection.  Not actual expenditures.
Unk - 10 Dec 2005 16:28 GMT
>And to those who would bash President Clinton, I would remark that
>"Nobody died when Clinton lied."  There is a qualitative difference
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>KH

Clinton was getting his dick licked when he should have been taking
care of Bin Laden as he promised.  He was offered Bin Laden on 2
occasions (he has acknowledged this) and was too busy jerking off into
a Oval Office sink and making heads of state wait.

PAH
miles - 10 Dec 2005 17:50 GMT
> And Clinton produced a budget surplus.

Just what surplus are you referring to?  I assume you are referring to
Clintons 10 year budget projection that showed a surplus.  Thats all it
ever was, a projection.  Why do so many Clinton fans seem to think that
a surplus meant there was a pile of excess money sitting somewhere?
It's a cashflow situation and just a projection and nothing more.  Whats
more is that Clintons WH budget projection was not the only one.  Two
other projections showed a deficit but Clinton fans ignore those.
MoM - 09 Dec 2005 13:47 GMT
>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I
>>wanted to have a
>>laugh.
>
> And where is that in Australia?

Considering the population difference, I believe the number
of dunces would be higher in the US of A.

MoM
Al - 09 Dec 2005 19:57 GMT
>>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I wanted to have a
>>>laugh.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> MoM

He could start with his president, or the anonymous dunce named Tatiele from
Pomona Kalifornia that keeps responding
MoM - 09 Dec 2005 22:17 GMT
>>>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I
>>>>wanted to have a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> named Tatiele from
> Pomona Kalifornia that keeps responding

LOL!  I was trying to appear politically correct!

But if you want to knock leaders, none of ours are much
better.

MoM
GeoffP - 10 Dec 2005 02:34 GMT
>>>>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I wanted to have a
>>>>>laugh.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> MoM
===
Hey Mom,What! You don't like our illustrious leaders? LOL
Geoff.
MoM - 10 Dec 2005 15:39 GMT
>>>>>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I
>>>>>>wanted to have a
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Hey Mom,What! You don't like our illustrious leaders? LOL
> Geoff.
Illustrious???  You mean industrious?  At filling their own
bank accounts.

MoM
GeoffP - 10 Dec 2005 21:22 GMT
>>>>>>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I wanted to have
>>>>>>>a
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> MoM
LOL, you are so right!
Geoff
MoM - 11 Dec 2005 19:12 GMT
>>>>>>>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if
>>>>>>>>I wanted to have a
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> LOL, you are so right!
> Geoff

Sometimes....  some of my family wouldn't agree though.

MoM
Al - 10 Dec 2005 18:17 GMT
>> He could start with his president, or the anonymous dunce named Tatiele
>> from
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> MoM

True mind you I do not know of any Canadians that go around praising any of
our leaders that are flops.
MoM - 11 Dec 2005 19:10 GMT
>>> He could start with his president, or the anonymous
>>> dunce named Tatiele
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> around praising any of
> our leaders that are flops.

I'm trying to think which ones weren't flops!  Kim Campbell?
Lester Pearson?  Chretien?  Hmmmm.

MoM
Tatiele - 10 Dec 2005 05:44 GMT
Sure and what have you accomplished in your entire life to be able to call a
sitting President a dunce?

If the best you can do is sit there stroking your willy and playing wide
open IP information rehashing then you are a complete moron.

I do believe a moron is lower than a dunce, yes?

>>>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I wanted to have a
>>>>laugh.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> from
> Pomona Kalifornia that keeps responding
Tatiele - 10 Dec 2005 05:42 GMT
At least they'll be English speaking dunces not some confused tongue tied
Canadian dunce ;)

>>>I am sure I can find a couple of Canadian dunces if I wanted to have a
>>>laugh.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> MoM
GeoffP - 10 Dec 2005 13:31 GMT
> At least they'll be English speaking dunces not some confused tongue tied
> Canadian dunce ;)
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>
>> MoM

==
Reply to the moronic top poster:
I, my friend am a Canadian. I don't speak French and my English is every bit
as good as yours. As you brought up the subject of morons, I found this on
the web this morning. http://www.presidentmoron.com/
Geoff.
Tatiele - 11 Dec 2005 06:34 GMT
I wasn't convinced before Geoff but now I am quite sure. You Sir are a
complete and utter retard.

>> At least they'll be English speaking dunces not some confused tongue tied
>> Canadian dunce ;)
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> this on the web this morning. http://www.presidentmoron.com/
> Geoff.
GeoffP - 11 Dec 2005 15:14 GMT
>I wasn't convinced before Geoff but now I am quite sure. You Sir are a
>complete and utter retard.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>
>===
To Tatiele the top poster.
I consider  the source, and therefore take that as a compliment.
Thank you
Geoff.
Tatiele - 11 Dec 2005 16:11 GMT
You are welcome Geoff.

It must be truly sad to be a beating and down trodden citizen.

Have a nice weekend.

>>I wasn't convinced before Geoff but now I am quite sure. You Sir are a
>>complete and utter retard.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Thank you
> Geoff.
Al - 10 Dec 2005 18:16 GMT
> At least they'll be English speaking dunces not some confused tongue tied
> Canadian dunce ;)

Glad yo all do
MoM - 11 Dec 2005 19:08 GMT
>> At least they'll be English speaking dunces not some
>> confused tongue tied
>> Canadian dunce ;)

Most Canadians speak perfect English.  The few who don't try
to run the country.
Ted - 12 Dec 2005 17:08 GMT
> You bet your bippy.  You Canucks (meant lovingly as I have a number of
> close friends from AB and BC) didn't have nearly 3000 people murdered
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> unk

Hate to disappoint you, but schizophrenia and paranoia is your baggage
alone, the average Canadian does not fret much about these things, besides
if we should ever piss off, as many people as you do it might become a
problem. Other then that you're constant fretting is tantamount to giving up
driving because 50,000 are killed on the highways every year.
Unk - 13 Dec 2005 01:32 GMT
>Hate to disappoint you, but schizophrenia and paranoia is your baggage
>alone, the average Canadian does not fret much about these things, besides
>if we should ever piss off, as many people as you do it might become a
>problem. Other then that you're constant fretting is tantamount to giving up
>driving because 50,000 are killed on the highways every year.

We didn't fret about these things either...until 9/11/01.  You can say
it is because we POed the radical islamists but what did Spain do?
Italy?

Read their lips.  They want to eliminate ALL non-muslim people.  I
presume that includes you.

But, don't you fret.  You can always cann on good ol' Unk Sam.
miles - 13 Dec 2005 01:42 GMT
> We didn't fret about these things either...until 9/11/01.  You can say
> it is because we POed the radical islamists but what did Spain do?
> Italy?

Thats something few seem to realize.  Countries have been attacked all
over the world by these terrorist thugs before and after 9/11.
Countries for or against the Iraq war have been attacked before and
after.  The Iraq war didn't create the reasons for any attacks at all
and didn't create terrorists.  Their reasons for doing what they do
aren't effected by the Iraq war.
GeoffP - 13 Dec 2005 02:29 GMT
>> We didn't fret about these things either...until 9/11/01.  You can say
>> it is because we POed the radical islamists but what did Spain do?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> terrorists.  Their reasons for doing what they do aren't effected by the
> Iraq war.
Don't fret Guy, Unk is a paronoid idiot LOL
Geoff.
Unk - 13 Dec 2005 16:09 GMT
>> We didn't fret about these things either...until 9/11/01.  You can say
>> it is because we POed the radical islamists but what did Spain do?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>and didn't create terrorists.  Their reasons for doing what they do
>aren't effected by the Iraq war.

The Iraq war is over.  We won.  The government of Iraq is no longer a
threat to the world.  Saddam is gone (and soon to be very gone). He is
no longer murdering thousands of people in a repressive dictatorship.
Life is going on over there.  

The rest is mop up.  We were doing the same in Japan occupied
territories for 20 years after VJ-Day.  We still have troups in Japan
and Germany.

Bill Clinton's war in Bosnia was to be over "by Christmas" (note, he
did not say the "holidays"!  We are still there.

Anyway, 52% of Iraqis want us to stay until they 'are safe' (Poll
dated 12/13/05).  I know the dems have been spouting a statistic that
80% of Iraqis want us out.  When pressed, they admit to  pulling that
false number out of Ted Kennedys more than ample a.s or somewhere else
equally disgusting!

Get over it folks.  We did the right thing.  And the world is better
for it.
Will Sill - 13 Dec 2005 17:17 GMT
I see where Unk <roamer@firstinter.net> contributed:

>The Iraq war is over.  We won.  The government of Iraq is no longer a
>threat to the world.  Saddam is gone (and soon to be very gone). He is
>no longer murdering thousands of people in a repressive dictatorship.
>Life is going on over there.  
>
>The rest is mop up.  ,

<snipping for brevity>

>Get over it folks.  We did the right thing.  And the world is better
>for it.

Extremely accurate and (considering the vile attacks from nitwits)
civil response.

I find it interesting that the same unprintably dishonest freaks who
are whining for us to get out Iraq don't seem to open their filthy
mouths over our long and expensive military presence is such places as
Korea, Germany and elsewhere - and where there are also significant
elements of the ungrateful locals who want us out.

The central truth, as stated above, is that the war is over.  It has
BEEN over even before our much-maligned President congratulated the
carrier crew for their part in the defeat of Iraq's military.    We
are now dealing with terrorists, and THAT is a different and in many
ways unrelated issue.

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
SteveB - 13 Dec 2005 19:33 GMT
> The central truth, as stated above, is that the war is over.  It has
> BEEN over even before our much-maligned President congratulated the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Will Sill
> The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill

You must realize who you are dealing with here.  The same people who think
that we did NOT land on the moon.  The same people who think the world is
run from a secret cabin in the woods by Dick Cheney, Billy Graham, and Dr.
Laura.  The ones that think the evil conservative Republicans are the only
ones that can avail themselves of current tax laws, and can't find "101 Ways
to Save on Your Taxes" at their local libraries.  The ones who have no
detectable life other than to blog on and on and on here with mindless
drivel.  The ones that buy gas magnets and louvered tailgates.

HTH ;-)

Steve
Al - 15 Dec 2005 16:44 GMT
> You must realize who you are dealing with here.  The same people who think
> that we did NOT land on the moon.  > HTH ;-)
>
> Steve

We know you landed on you head, BTW Wayne sounds like the guilty one that
sent you all that porno from Kinko's.
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 14 Dec 2005 08:31 GMT
>I find it interesting that the same unprintably dishonest freaks who
>are whining for us to get out Iraq don't seem to open their filthy
>mouths over our long and expensive military presence is such places as
>Korea, Germany and elsewhere - and where there are also significant
>elements of the ungrateful locals who want us out.

I gladly admit to being one of your unprintably dishonest freaks with
a filthy mouth because you simply don't understand why we invaded
Iraq, I disagree with your posturing, and will not sit still while you
play the fierce American who will not be trifled with card.

Come right down to it, why did we invade them?  WMDs?  Korea, maybe
Iran have the weapons, yet we don't attack them.  Could it be a
knee-jerk reaction to a terrorist attack within our borders, wanting
to lash out at anyone who publicly makes a fetish of hating us? If the
Iraqis were the problem and we wanted to avoid fighting them at home,
why did we not retaliate after the first WTC bombing? Perhaps you
didn't notice, but the crazies who took over WTC planes were from
Saudi Arabia:

You forgot to mention Vietnam, a long and expensive military presence
that resulted in thousands dead, nothing gained, and our butts kicked
out like running dogs.  Every conflict we take on does not always put
us on the side of the angels: Iraq is such an excursion.

>The central truth, as stated above, is that the war is over.  It has
>BEEN over even before our much-maligned President congratulated the
>carrier crew for their part in the defeat of Iraq's military.    We
>are now dealing with terrorists, and THAT is a different and in many
>ways unrelated issue.

Do our dead troops recognize any difference between who killed them?
Shot, blown up, or maimed in a foreign country which had no ties to
the 9/11 debacle, they were sacrificed on the alter of political
ambition and miscalculation.

As to the war being over, you might try convincing the men unloading
flag-draped coffins as they bring home the remains of our dead troops.

Canoli


 
miles - 14 Dec 2005 13:37 GMT
> I gladly admit to being one of your unprintably dishonest freaks with
> a filthy mouth because you simply don't understand why we invaded
> Iraq

Thats a somewhat common thing.  People for centuries have viewed war on
rather simple terms.  Someone attacks, you attack back.  Police tactics
were used.  A few thugs are sought out, grand juries formed and charges
filed against them.  9/11 changed the way terrorism is viewed and
fought.  All you need to do is look at exactly who it is we are
currently fighting.  Thats why we are there.  We can no longer fight
terrorism through police tactics as has failed badly for decades.  These
thugs have attacked countries both for and against the Iraq war before
and after.  The reasons why they attack have not changed because of the
war one bit.

> Perhaps you
> didn't notice, but the crazies who took over WTC planes were from
> Saudi Arabia:

What is your point?  The war in Iraq is not in retaliation for 9/11.
9/11 simply changed the long term view on how to fight terrorism.  You
may disagree with that.  Time will tell if its a good change or not.
Ken Harrison - 15 Dec 2005 05:54 GMT
> Come right down to it, why did we invade them?  WMDs?  Korea, maybe
> Iran have the weapons, yet we don't attack them.  Could it be a
> knee-jerk reaction to a terrorist attack within our borders, wanting
> to lash out at anyone who publicly makes a fetish of hating us?

All well put.

Come to think of it, Timothy McVeigh committed a heinous terrorist act
in Oklahoma City.  McVeigh was from upstate New York, near Buffalo.
Perhaps we should have invaded Buffalo and its environs in retaliation
for his terrorist attack.  It would seem to be the same reasoning.

KH
Dan Listermann - 15 Dec 2005 13:39 GMT
>> Come right down to it, why did we invade them?  WMDs?  Korea, maybe
>> Iran have the weapons, yet we don't attack them.  Could it be a
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> we should have invaded Buffalo and its environs in retaliation for his
> terrorist attack.  It would seem to be the same reasoning.

Shortly after invading Buffalo, Bush would have invaded Rodchester too but
3.5 years later he would have taken responsibility for it and given
everybody involved Metals of Freedom.
miles - 15 Dec 2005 23:52 GMT
> Shortly after invading Buffalo, Bush would have invaded Rodchester too but
> 3.5 years later he would have taken responsibility for it and given
> everybody involved Metals of Freedom.

Ya, he should do like John Kerry and request a medal for himself.
Ted - 16 Dec 2005 18:00 GMT
>> Shortly after invading Buffalo, Bush would have invaded Rodchester too
>> but 3.5 years later he would have taken responsibility for it and given
>> everybody involved Metals of Freedom.
>
> Ya, he should do like John Kerry and request a medal for himself.

Whooshed again
Ted - 15 Dec 2005 18:43 GMT
> The Iraq war is over.  We won.  The government of Iraq is no longer a
> threat to the world.  Saddam is gone (and soon to be very gone). He is
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Get over it folks.  We did the right thing.  And the world is better
> for it.

You have won only to the extend that you managed to pound the wrong enemy
and they're derelict and practically unarmed forces into the ground, the
real war has only just began, and I can say that with confidence, because
the one thing you have managed is to unify the enemy you cannot see.
Moreover, do not hold your breath concerning the soon to be installed
democratic government, and do expect that same government to fall in due
course and have Iraqis sink into the inevitable morass of endless civil war.
Ted - 13 Dec 2005 17:12 GMT
>> We didn't fret about these things either...until 9/11/01.  You can say
>> it is because we POed the radical islamists but what did Spain do?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> terrorists.  Their reasons for doing what they do aren't effected by the
> Iraq war.

Yo