Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / November 2005
Raise Trailer w/axle-flip
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Jim Redelfs - 24 Nov 2005 13:24 GMT My entry-level travel trailer has a "conventionally"-sprung suspension w/leaf springs and no shocks. I understand that the axles with this type of suspension can be "flipped" to achieve a higher ground clearance.
If I have this modification done, it will be done by a "certified" RV technician and NOT yours truly.
How BIG of a deal IS this type of modification? I know that proper alignment is essential.
There is a mom-and-pop-size RV place near to my home (outside Omaha) that has done good work for me in the past but never anything of this presumed magnitude. I will, of course, ASK the guy if he's even interested in such a wintertime project.
My TT is almost 26-feet from spare tire to coupler and could sure use a lift since its owner likes to go GENTLY off-road occasionally. All the plumbing hangs exposed under the aft end of this otherwise nice camper. It came from the factory with fixed skid bars that I have tried to NOT drag. So far, so good, but it's a BIG concern on some occasions.
How much *REAL* increase in height am I likely to see from such a mod?
TIA. :) JR
 Signature 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000
JerryD(upstateNY) - 24 Nov 2005 14:40 GMT > My entry-level travel trailer has a "conventionally"-sprung > suspension w/leaf springs and no shocks. I understand that the axles > with this type of suspension can be "flipped" to achieve a higher ground > clearance. << Has anyone had any experience with moving the axle from under the springs to over the springs ? That would raise the trailer 5"-6" depending on how thick the axle and springs are but I have no idea how it would tow.
 Signature JerryD(upstateNY)
Will Sill - 24 Nov 2005 14:58 GMT I see where "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerry@righthere.com> contributed:
>Has anyone had any experience with moving the axle from under the springs to >over the springs ? >That would raise the trailer 5"-6" depending on how thick the axle and >springs are but I have no idea how it would tow. Sorry, but that would LOWER the trailer.
If your rig already has the axle under the springs, and you want the trailer higher, you need to consider new/different springs and/or long shackles, etc.
Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
JerryD(upstateNY) - 24 Nov 2005 21:11 GMT >>Has anyone had any experience with moving the axle from under the springs >>to over the springs ? That would raise the trailer 5"-6" depending on how thick the axle and springs are but I have no idea how it would tow. Sorry, but that would LOWER the trailer. If your rig already has the axle under the springs, and you want the trailer higher, you need to consider new/different springs and/or long shackles, etc Will Sill<
You are right, I wrote it backwards.
 Signature JerryD(upstateNY)
BF Lake - 24 Nov 2005 14:51 GMT > My entry-level travel trailer has a "conventionally"-sprung suspension w/leaf > springs and no shocks. I understand that the axles with this type of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > How BIG of a deal IS this type of modification? I know that proper alignment > is essential. We had to get our last fiver "flipped" to help level it with the truck. They didn't actually flip the axle like the term came from, but put a spacer in there with the frame.
> How much *REAL* increase in height am I likely to see from such a mod? What happens with your current hitch for levelling if the trailer is higher? Also will it lift the back end of the tow vehicle so that it will be nose down if now level?
Biggest thing might be if it makes the TT top- heavy. TTs are already tricky for balance compared with fivers. Even fivers are possibly tricky. We asked the factory tech advice guy about changing from 15" tires to 16" to gain an inch in height and he had a fit. "Don't do it!" he said. (He couldn't explain why putting a spacer in was ok but bigger tires was bad, but he was adamant about the tire size) Recommend asking the TT tech guy if there would be any "issues" with raising the trailer.
Regards, Barry
Will Sill - 24 Nov 2005 14:56 GMT I see where Jim Redelfs <jim.redelfs@redelfs.com> contributed:
>My entry-level travel trailer has a "conventionally"-sprung suspension w/leaf >springs and no shocks. I understand that the axles with this type of >suspension can be "flipped" to achieve a higher ground clearance. Jim, this is normally done by bolting the axle UNDER the springs rather than over, and the increased height depends on the specific suspension details. The usual challenge making it hard for a do-it-yerself type is that the perches (the thingdoolie on the axle that the springs bolt to) are welded the axle and need to be relocated - because you can't just rotate the axle 180 degrees (flip) for several reasons. Someone familiar with the issue can do the job in a short time.
Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
ninebal310@aol.com - 24 Nov 2005 17:38 GMT > My entry-level travel trailer has a "conventionally"-sprung suspension w/leaf > springs and no shocks. I understand that the axles with this type of [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD > Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 Listen to BF Lakes response, he seems to know. If you MUST lift it, see if you can just put on longer shackles. They are easy to change and cheap to buy. Then, if you don't like it because it sits too high, sways, or any other problems, you can change it back quickly. Some axles, you may not be able to change shackles, therefore you have to go to plan B. :-)
Hank
Joe Bedford - 24 Nov 2005 19:03 GMT >> My entry-level travel trailer has a "conventionally"-sprung suspension >> w/leaf [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Hank Having suffered the problems associated with a broken shackle, I do NOT recommend that approach. I believe a longer shackle would be more prone to breaking. An axle "flip" would be safer IMHO. Also, probably easier to make sure you have perfect alignment if you don't replace the shackles.
Cheers, Joe
William Boyd - 24 Nov 2005 21:17 GMT > My entry-level travel trailer has a "conventionally"-sprung suspension w/leaf > springs and no shocks. I understand that the axles with this type of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > :) > JR There are several designs of running gear under trailers. Not knowing what design you have it is impossible to give good advice. There is the drop center axle design where the center of the axle is not the same as the center of the shaft that the backer plate and bearing races are on. Then you have the straight axle that has spring mounting plates welded to them. These may be mounted above the spring leaf center and some are mounted on the bottom. To flip these type axles is not without sacrifice, it will invert the brake mechanism not designed to operate in this position, as well as expose the magnet wires to road hazards by being on the bottom. Most 5er and TT axles are already already mounted on the bottom. The only way to raise the level would to have new spring mount brackets be welded on the frame, or have spacer blocks and longer "U" bolts installed. I have seen some of both. The new spring mounts weld direct to the existing ones as well as to the frame. This makes for a much stronger spring hanger mount, but I think it would be needed with the longer fulcrum effect. The advice of not installing larger tires or wheels in because you would decrease the distance between the tire and the bottom of the rv, possibly causing the tire to rub on the fender well area and cause a fire. The answer to your leveling problem is to lower your hitch on the tow vehicle. You would be more successful in re-routing your plumbing than raising some designs of axles. Maybe consider putting rollers on the rear skids, in case you do start to drag. Another course that might be considered is to add a one inch block between the axle, if mounted on the bottom of the spring group, along with a one inch larger size tire. This would keep the tire the same distance away from the floor of the RV as it was and raise you two inches. Did you know you can buy soft rubber pluming pipe sections???
 Signature BILL P.
2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SLT, SWB, 2WD, 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. Dual EU2000i Hondas Just Me and Dog
BF Lake - 24 Nov 2005 21:41 GMT snip
> The advice of not installing larger tires or wheels in because you > would decrease the distance between the tire and the bottom of the > rv, possibly causing the tire to rub on the fender well area and > cause a fire.--- Another might be to keep some space between the front and back tires. One safety guide recommends the tires be at least four inches apart so if one goes flat or loses its tread it won't take out the other. My 15s are now five inches apart and going to 16s would make them three inches apart.
Regards, Barry
William Boyd - 24 Nov 2005 22:18 GMT > snip > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Regards, > Barry You are right it would put the tires closer together and I do not know what the minimum distance should be. I have two tandem axle trailers, my flatbed is 4" and the 5er is 6" between tires. Best bet is to find out what distances are involved with the TT that is to be raised, as well as the minimum allowed. But nothing comes free, increasing the distance between the ground and bottom of the rv is raising the CG making it more subject to turning over. If I am going to take a rig four wheeling I want it to hug the ground. With the OP indicating that he does get off the road at times leads me to believe he has a 4X4 drive and they usually are higher and tows tung high, making the rear to low.
 Signature BILL P.
2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SLT, SWB, 2WD, 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. Dual EU2000i Hondas Just Me and Dog
Bob Giddings - 25 Nov 2005 02:46 GMT >My entry-level travel trailer has a "conventionally"-sprung suspension w/leaf >springs and no shocks. I understand that the axles with this type of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > :) >JR I did it when I bought the trailer. I never pulled it in any but the raised configuration, and it pulls just fine. I got a 5 inch rise out of it, but more to the point, this gambit allowed the trailer to ride LEVEL with the 4WD F250. The truck is so high that, as originally configured, the trailer would have ridden nose high, and probably scraped the rear of the rails.
If you do this yourself, it is VERY IMPORTANT that you rebolt the springs to the axle at EXACTLY the same point, assuming they got it right at the factory. Otherwise you will be throwing "interstate alligators" up and down the road.
I wanted it to ride level. Clearance was increased, but this was incidental. It is still POSSIBLE to scrape the trailer's bumper, and indeed right now my a.s has an inverted smile from having done so. The bicycle rack hung down enough to catch and push the bumper up in the middle. :o(
It remains to be seen whether I will be the death of this trailer, or it will be the death of me. I have prepared my Will.
Bob
www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings
William Boyd - 25 Nov 2005 05:38 GMT >>My entry-level travel trailer has a "conventionally"-sprung suspension w/leaf >>springs and no shocks. I understand that the axles with this type of [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings I see where you like my home town Brownwood, Texas and the Gomez Cafe. But their special is the chicken fries steak with mashed potatoes and some of that white gravy. I was raised a few miles north of town close to lake Brownwood. Get back by there every once and a while, lot of childhood memories mostly something about sand burs and bare footed.
 Signature BILL P.
2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SLT, SWB, 2WD, 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. Dual EU2000i Hondas Just Me and Dog
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