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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / January 2006Trailer Braking Problems
'99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake controller. The problem is that the trailer brakes don't help enough after the first mile or so. If everything is cold and I drive along at 20mph and push the manual button on the brake controller all the way, the trailer wheels MIGHT slide. If I try that again after driving / stopping normally several times, the trailer slows the rig gently. The trailer brakes have been replaced - same problem. Then readjusted - same problem. The brake controller is set to maximum gain, and the readout indicates all possible current being sent to trailer brakes. Is there any way this is the fault of the brake controller? Everything I've read says the Jordan unit is good (and it behaves much better than my last controller), but I don't think I should have to set the controller to max. gain just to get gentle slowing! > '99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake controller. > The problem is that the trailer brakes don't help enough after the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > my last controller), but I don't think I should have to set the > controller to max. gain just to get gentle slowing! How much current is "all possible"? Rick I believe the meter reads 12.8 (milliamps, I presume) Pete > I believe the meter reads 12.8 (milliamps, I presume) > > Pete I expect that is Volts. I suppose it could be a wiring problem. One of the first tests I would try to make would be to measure the voltage somewhere near the wheels. Preferrably after they have been warmed up. > > I believe the meter reads 12.8 (milliamps, I presume) > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to make would be to measure the voltage somewhere near the wheels. > Preferrably after they have been warmed up. I looked on the web and see that the display is in Amperes. (Accurate to tenths of an Amp). Sometimes wiring gets caught between the frame and flooring of the trailer during manufacturing. The insulation rubs off and shorts out on the frame. Check ALL wiring for possible insulation problems. I had this problem and I would have brakes for the first mile or so, then nothing or intermittent at best. Good luck. Hank > '99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake controller. > The problem is that the trailer brakes don't help enough after the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > my last controller), but I don't think I should have to set the > controller to max. gain just to get gentle slowing! Your brakes are dragging and over heating from the beginning. After you drive for a short distance they become hot enough to not be of much value. Jack one wheel at a time up on the Alpine, with the brakes connected to the tow vehicle see if the wheel will turn after you apply the breaks the first time. You might be getting current to the magnets all the time after initial application.  SignatureBILL P. 2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SLT, SWB, 2WD, 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. Dual EU2000i Hondas Just Me and Dog > Your brakes are dragging and over heating from the beginning. After you > drive for a short distance they become hot enough to not be of much > value. Jack one wheel at a time up on the Alpine, with the brakes > connected to the tow vehicle see if the wheel will turn after you apply > the breaks the first time. You might be getting current to the magnets > all the time after initial application. This is why, during a stop, I place my hand on the wheels and - VERY carefully - on the wheel bearing area - to check for "excess" heat. My brakes ALWAYS perform better the first time or two after pulling out of the dock next to the house. I increase the gain a bit on the controller and all is well. I have checked and my setup is NOT dragging the shoes. In fact, this is the season where I really MUST service the trailer brakes and replace the tires for the first time since the TT was new, May, 2000. <sigh> JR >>Your brakes are dragging and over heating from the beginning. After you >>drive for a short distance they become hot enough to not be of much [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > <sigh> > JR Jim, get one of those little infrared thermometers from Radio Shack. I use one to check the tires on the RV and the Saturn whenever we stop. Saves burned fingers... Also will identify low and hot tires. Buy it on sale, otherwise they are pretty expensive. Here is the link: http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=infrared%20thermometer John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee > Jim, get one of those little infrared thermometers from Radio Shack. I > use one to check the tires on the RV and the Saturn whenever we stop. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee That is a good idea, but more of a preventive measure. You know something is wrong when the brakes fade. That is more or less what it is called, where you have brakes initially and then they fade out. If, when you have one wheel jacked up and see that the brakes are not dragging, than see that they work by having some one press the peddle. Of course you know already that they worked. But over heated brakes are a cause of break fade. I would check the tail light circuit for brake light to tail light short causing the brakes to drag. Here is where your thermometer would detect it. SignatureBILL P. Just Dog & ME > '99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake > controller. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > trailer > wheels MIGHT slide. In my opinion, you are doing your brake test wrong. Brakes on the V-10 or the trailer should never "slide" the tires. That's when you lose braking. Also, your trailer brakes are not designed to stop the truck and trailer both, so testing by pushing down on the controller button doesn't give you a true indication of braking capacity. The 1st thing you need to do is determine if all trailer brakes are working. I do that by jacking up 1 side of the trailer at the time, spinning the tires and have someone apply the brakes while they are spinning. They should stop instantly. If 1 or more don't, find out why and correct the problem. Next, the adjustments of the brake shoes should be correct on every wheel. If you don't know the proper adjustment, I suggest taking the rig to someone who does. After getting the trailer brakes adjusted, I take my truck, without the trailer, to a straight stretch of road with little or no traffic (business park on weekend) and measure stopping distance from an object on the side of the road at a set speed. Where I test mine, I can run 35 MPH and be safe. Once I've marked where the truck stopped, I go hook to the trailer and come back and run the test again at the same speed and the same direction USING THE TRUCK BRAKE PEDAL. If your trailer brakes are adjusted properly, the controller is set properly as per Jordan's instruction sheet (it tells you what the reading should be for your setup), you should be stopping in almost the same distance as with the truck alone. I have a heavier trailer with 6 wheel brakes, so I actually stop truck and trailer in a shorter distance than the truck alone. Last, if any wheel slides in these test, something is wrong. Tom J >> '99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake >> controller. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >In my opinion, you are doing your brake test wrong. Brakes on the V-10 >or the trailer should never "slide" the tires. I sincerely suggest you go read the setup instructions for trailer brakes with the Tekonshas. They say to apply the trailer brakes manually at a speed of 25 mph and adjust the gain until the tires just slide, then reduce the gain till they just don't slide. Jordan doesn't have their user manual online so I can't check, but I'm sure the initial set up is close to being the same. > That's when you lose >braking. Also, your trailer brakes are not designed to stop the truck [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Tom J > SignatureFrank Tabor >>> '99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake >>> controller. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > just > slide, then reduce the gain till they just don't slide. The original poster sounded to me like he thought the brakes should slide the tires in all applications. I still say that the brakes should never slide the tires AFTER the initial adjustment. Most would know you have to advance the gain until you pass the point where they slide and then back off until they NEVER slide the tires again. How's that nit pick!! Tom J > >>> '99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake > >>> controller. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Tom J He said the controller is set to maximum gain. He should be able to slide the wheels. If it is like a Tekonsha control he then should be able to reduce the gain to just below where they do not slide. >>> I sincerely suggest you go read the setup instructions for >>> trailer brakes with the Tekonshas. >> The original poster sounded to me like he thought the brakes should >> slide the tires in all applications. > He said the controller is set to maximum gain. He should be able to slide > the wheels. If it is like a Tekonsha control he then should be able to > reduce the gain to just below where they do not slide. I'm impressed. We made it to the (current) END of this thread without any flames, hate, discontent, profanity and vulgarity. Damned awesome! All that despite one of the posters made a POSSIBLE error considering the original poster mentioned only a JORDAN controller. That this error was NOT immediately POUNCED ON by that poster's defacto prime detractor is gratifying and perhaps even revealing. After towing a good-size camper with UNDER-sized brakes for 13 seasons, I will never tow another rig with insufficient trailer brakes. I want - and expect - the ultimate power to SET THE BRAKES on my trailer. To me, that means LOCKED. Of course, one would hopefully NEVER have a NEED to lock 'em, but there should be enough power available to do it. The OP should consider WEIGHING his trailer - fully "wet" and loaded, then getting the specifications for the trailer's axles and brakes. S/he may well have a rig with marginal brakes. They may be overloading the rig. I have certified scale weigh slips for my camper. Do you? Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > In article <M4gxf.247986$qk4.227619@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > > He said the controller is set to maximum gain. He should be able to slide > > the wheels. If it is like a Tekonsha control he then should be able to > > reduce the gain to just below where they do not slide. The Tekonsha instruction book says some trailer brakes will not lock up and explains how to do the initial setting in that case. > After towing a good-size camper with UNDER-sized brakes for 13 seasons, I will > never tow another rig with insufficient trailer brakes. I want - and expect - > the ultimate power to SET THE BRAKES on my trailer. To me, that means LOCKED. > > Of course, one would hopefully NEVER have a NEED to lock 'em, but there should > be enough power available to do it. AFAIK this can't be right. As when "spinning your wheels" on a patch of ice, the old saying , "rolling friction is greater than sliding friction" applies, so you stop the spin and try to slowly roll off the ice. In a panic stop IMO you do not want to lock up your brakes, but rather slow down the roll without actually skidding. The Tekonsha instructions seem to agree, in that the initial setting (where you come back to where there is no skidding, if you can get the trailer to skid at all), is for a panic stop, and then there is an adjustment procedure for various conditions. Regards, Barry Tom J wrote: >>>>'99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake >>>>controller. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Tom J I think this is correct. But when I tow my flatbed I have to adjust the gain every time I change the load. When I forget to do this the tires will lock up with the slightest amount of brake application when the trailer is empty. When I had my tractor loaded it would take a considerable amount of gain to feel the breaking effect of the trailer. Results of being very forgetful is flat spots on the tires and eventually a trip down to the mobile home sales lot for new tires. SignatureBILL P. Just Dog & ME >>>> '99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake >>>> controller. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Tom J That'll work, Tom. SignatureFrank Tabor > '99 F-250 V-10 Auto pulling a 29' Alpenlite. Jordan brake controller. > The problem is that the trailer brakes don't help enough after the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > my last controller), but I don't think I should have to set the > controller to max. gain just to get gentle slowing! Another suggestion for testing. When the brakes are warm try applying full power when standing still, try moving the trailer and see if the wheels are locked. If not, pull the break away switch and see if that locks them. Perhaps that will isolate the trailer brakes from the controller and wire. > Is there any way this is the fault of the brake controller? Yes. > Everything I've read says the Jordan unit is good It is. (...said the Tekonsha Sentinel owner) > (and it behaves much better than my last controller) Your last controller did a WORSE job? > I don't think I should have to set the > controller to max. gain just to get gentle slowing! Assuming the brakes on your trailer are of sufficient SIZE, you are probably delivering insufficient voltage to the trailer's brake magnets. You should check the voltage AT the magnet leads when an assistant applies FULL POWER at the controller up front. If there is NOT sufficient voltage, find out WHY and repair as needed. With FULL POWER from the controller, you SHOULD be able to LOCK UP all four trailer wheels while fully loaded and towing briskly down the road. (Not that you ever will HAVE to.) Good luck! :) JR |
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