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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / February 2006Wiring - New trailer has brakes!!
(also posted in other RV related NGs, and settling down at the campfire to discuss this with you folks, if you please) Hi folks, I tow with a 98 Toyota Sienna, and have been pulling a Coleman/Fleetwood Destiny Rio Grande for some years now with a 4 prong plug (no brakes) and everything has been fine. During our last trip in September someone rear-ended us and totaled our beloved popup. So now we have bought a really nice used 1998 Coachmen Clipper and it has *brakes*. This is the new ground for me and if you can help me understand things I will greatly appreciate it. So the previous owner has a Prodigy controller and liked/recommended it and from what I have read around the net I have pretty much decided that this is what I will be needing. No problem there and I know where to get one. My question for you folks is what to do about wiring. What I have now is a 4 prong wire that disappears into a hatch on the rear interior passenger side of the wayback of the Sienna. I pull out the wire when I need it and stash it back in there when I am done. There is no exterior mounted plug of any manner - I just close the wayback door on the wire that sticks out. This was installed by the folks who installed my hitch (meaning not me). The new Coachmen has a 7 prong round plug. I also have another utility trailer so I will be also needing to retain 4 prong capability for that. So now I am faced with replacing the wiring with a system that will support the 7 and 4 prong trailer systems I will be using, and also wiring in the Prodigy, once I get it. I am a pretty handy guy (I replaced my disc brakes and rotors recently - no problem - as a benchmark), but I have not done this particular stuff before. I am supposing that I can open up that panel and see where the existing wires go and 'do the stuff'. I just do not know what that stuff is, exactly. Is this something I can do on my own or should I just pay someone about $300 [cringe] to sell me a controller and do it right? If I can do this what do I do? Thanks Folks, Tomes ... > Is this something I can do on my own or should I just pay someone about $300 > [cringe] to sell me a controller and do it right? If I can do this what do > I do? Yes, it's actually easy. You need to pull a wire for power. I put in a two port regulator. This comes off your current battery charging circuit, one wire continues to where the old wire did, the other goes to the new Bargemen 7 pin connector. The other wire comes from the brake controller. Wire the brake controller per the instructions that came with it. If you want more detailed instructions, I'm certain the RV Repair and Maintenance Manual by Bob Livingston would be a sound investment (for other things in your rig also) Also see sites like http://www.etrailer.com/faq/wiring.asp  Signature-------------------------------------------------------- Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv > ... >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Also see sites like http://www.etrailer.com/faq/wiring.asp Thanks Ralph. I will pick up that book as I bet it will be handy for other stuff too. Tomes > So the previous owner has a Prodigy controller and liked/recommended > it and from what I have read around the net I have pretty much [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > support the 7 and 4 prong trailer systems I will be using, and also > wiring in the Prodigy, once I get it. By all means get the Prodigy controller. It will come with enough instructions that you should have no problem getting it installed and adjusted. As to the 7/4 plug. There is a plug factory made that has the 4 wire plug made into the 7 wire plug, or you can get a 7 to 4 pigtail. Don't run these wires inside and close the hatch on them because there is more danger of fire from shorts as well as ruining the electronics in the tow vehicle. http://www.hitchesonline.com/acces_includes/electrical_connecters.htm Tom J >> So the previous owner has a Prodigy controller and liked/recommended it >> and from what I have read around the net I have pretty much decided that [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Tom J Yeah, I know your point on the closing the door on the wires thing. I was never real comfortable with that. I want to end up with an exterior mounted receptacle with both a 7 and a 4 plug connection. I have seen these at Wal-Mart, although I hesitate to but one from there for fear of cheapiness of the part. Thanks for the seconding on the Prodigy - this is all new ground for me... Tomes snipped > Is this something I can do on my own or should I just pay someone about $300 > [cringe] to sell me a controller and do it right? If I can do this what do > I do? > > Thanks Folks, > Tomes If I were you, I'd take the whole rig to a dealer familiar with raw installations. Reason I say that is, you probably don't have a brake wire available in the harness at the rear. You probably need, in addition to the brake controller, all the stuff that comes with an original towing option kit. The brake wire should IIRC be a blue one. I'd contact the Toy dealer service department and have them run your VIN number to see what came with the van from the factory. Hugh We've a shop that has installed a few hundred of these on all types of vehicles . If you a have a liking and feel for tight spaces ... tackle it. You'll be needing a few parts. 30 amp resetable breaker, about 30 foot of double 10 gauge brake controller wire with connectors, a Drawtite box mount for the bargeman 7 way plug, If you plan on keeping the 4 way. you'll need an extension to run it out of the vehicle.. the 7 way needs the space outside .... and lots of zip ties to handle the wiring . It is a simple job on a pick up... and a more complex one for the van. Routing and finding the correct harenss wires on the van .... Cold side brake plug wire, fusebox links, battery power and direct Ground, 12 volt charge line hooks to a switched line.. We suggest professional installers 3 hours flat rate and it takes that long to get it perfect on the van. Prodigy is the way to go, and the right shop will have the tools and testers, to be sure your BC is operating 'on the trailer' when you get it.. Right equipment lowest cost. Uhaul Portland BK Tomes, I wanted to also suggest, if you already do not have one installed on the Sienna, a full size transmiision cooler to help handle the Load.. Cheap insurance against the good possibility of overheating the transmission with larger trailer. Will you be working with Weight distribution or air- bags.? > Tomes, I wanted to also suggest, if you already do not have one > installed on the Sienna, a full size transmiision cooler to help handle > the Load.. Cheap insurance against the good possibility of overheating > the transmission with larger trailer. Will you be working with Weight > distribution or air- bags.? Yeah, I don't have that. I have loaded it up real full with the old trailer, stuff and a canoe on the top. I carry less now after that. Even still, the transmission behaved nicely, never hunting around for gears. This trailer is still only 2290 lbs GVWR all loaded up, not a really big trailer, not much bigger than the old one. I am planning on continuing to use my standard class 2 hitch. Talk to me about the air bags though as I would like to have less sag (what they do, cost), versus weight distribution stuff, whatever that means too <grin>. With my old rig I just hooked it up plugged it in and went, all still loaded up from the last trip, no problem. Tomes > > Tomes, I wanted to also suggest, if you already do not have one > > installed on the Sienna, a full size transmiision cooler to help handle [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > up from the last trip, no problem. > Tomes Tomes... Sorry ... weight distribution will work for you only with a class 3, 2 inch receier.. The minihicth 1-1/4 won't use WD. Air bags are the ticket . Gives you support at the rear of the Sienna. Cost around 60-125 + installation ... run the 2 fill tubes to the rear and up through the hitch area.mount on brackets. you get additional ride support to 1000 lbs. on-line at http://www.ride-rite.com/ http://www.ride-rite.com/installation_instructions/4118.pdf purchase and installation is very simple couple hours max. if you see more sway than you are comfortable with.. you could go with a sway bar and class 2 ball plate to mount directly to your ballmount.... Sounds like you are in it for the max fun!!. good luck with the new trailer... be safe.. http://www.sherline.com/lmbook.htm Bob On 2 Feb 2006 20:31:15 -0800, you wrote: >Tomes... > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Bob Take note, this will not increase your towing capacity nor will it increase the load capacity of the vehicle. Only a heavier drive train and larger brakes will increase these. Air bags will only treat sag. Correctly loading the trailer will do better, since a sagging rear is indicative of too much tongue weight. SignatureFrank Tabor > On 2 Feb 2006 20:31:15 -0800, you wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Air bags will only treat sag. Correctly loading the trailer will do > better, since a sagging rear is indicative of too much tongue weight. Yep, I am on board with that Frank, thanks. After 170K of hard work it needs a push-up bra, so to speak. Sounds like a good idea to me. The sag is not from the tongue weight as that is/will be proper. Thanks for the links and explanation there Bob, much appreciated. We are always in it for the max fun... Tomes >>>Air bags are the ticket . Gives you support at the rear of the Sienna. >>> Cost around 60-125 + installation ... run the 2 fill tubes to the rear [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > always in it for the max fun... > Tomes Took a close look at the links and then at my Sienna. It sure looks easy enough - no shock absorber in the way to confound things - it is in another location. This does sound like something that will help me. Thanks again. Also found a more local RV dealer that I never knew existed on their 'where to buy it' list. Tomes Tomes, I wanted to also suggest, if you already do not have one installed on the Sienna, a full size transmiision cooler to help handle the Load.. Cheap insurance against the good possibility of overheating the transmission with larger trailer. Will you be working with Weight distribution or air- ags? > We've a shop that has installed a few hundred of these on all types of > vehicles . [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Uhaul Portland > BK Thanks BK, a 3 hour job for those who know what they are doing, eh? Sounds like all day for me I suppose. What's a BC? Tomes > What's a BC? > Tomes In the context of this thread, BC is a brake controller. The lady from Canada inquiring at a campground in Florida about the facilities was using BC to refer to the bathroom commode, but the campground thought she was referring to the Baptist Church. You can imagine how that transfer of information went!! Tom J Tom J wrote: > In the context of this thread, BC is a brake controller. The lady from > Canada inquiring at a campground in Florida about the facilities was > using BC to refer to the bathroom commode, but the campground thought > she was referring to the Baptist Church. You can imagine how that > transfer of information went!! Oh, I thought she was talking about a bacon cooker or breakfast cereal. > Tom J wrote: >> In the context of this thread, BC is a brake controller. The lady from [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Oh, I thought she was talking about a bacon cooker or breakfast cereal. .......It was late last night...... lol Tomes > snipped >> Is this something I can do on my own or should I just pay someone about [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the van from the factory. > Hugh Ah, Hugh, you are seeing my situation with some clarity. Being a 98 it does not have that handy plug under the dash so I will be needing to mess with unfamiliar wiring stuff. Wish I had that. Tomes > (also posted in other RV related NGs, and settling down at the campfire to > discuss this with you folks, if you please) [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Thanks Folks, > Tomes I believe that I have come to my decision, and I know that everyone out there is waiting on the edge of their seat for this <grin>. I happened to pass by a U-Haul dealer and stopped in. There are just no camper dealers here. They wanted $171 for the Prodigy. I told him I could get it for $94 so he said get it and we will install it and the rear wiring for $65 per hour and it will take between 1 and 2 hours. So this is what I am going to do. I am daunted by wiring and am feeling comfortable with this. It will get done right, I am not doing it and my price is up the middle. Fine. Thanks to everyone who pitched in on this, it is indeed much appreciated. Tomes |
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