Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / February 2006
odometer and flat towing
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Michael D. Henderson - 24 Feb 2006 01:40 GMT If I flat tow my Jeep Wrangler (electronic odometer) will the odometer register the towed mileage?
TIA, mdh
Tomes - 24 Feb 2006 14:58 GMT If you do not get an answer here, you might try rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys newsgroup. Thos guys know everything Jeep and they are good folks too. Tomes
> If I flat tow my Jeep Wrangler (electronic odometer) will the odometer > register the towed mileage? > > TIA, > mdh Rich - 24 Feb 2006 15:12 GMT > If I flat tow my Jeep Wrangler (electronic odometer) will the >odometer register the towed mileage? > >TIA, >mdh nope. at least it doesn't on my '03 TJ. but remember that your tires will continue to rack up miles as far as treadwear is concerned.
73, rich, n9dko
CruzMastr - 24 Feb 2006 21:00 GMT Nope. I tow a 2000 TJ and no miles on odo. Tires, brakes, wheel bearings, etc will accumuate miles.
CruzMastr
> If I flat tow my Jeep Wrangler (electronic odometer) will the > odometer register the towed mileage? > > TIA, > mdh Tomes - 25 Feb 2006 04:46 GMT I gotta admit that I am amazed. I do not dispute it, just surprised is all. So when it is turned off the computer stuff sleeps right through it all. I have a 2002 TJ and this is _very_ good to know. I had just assumed that it still racked it up, with my mindset still in the mechanical odo days I suppose.
Is this the case with all the new vehicles that have electronic odometers now? Tomes
> Nope. I tow a 2000 TJ and no miles on odo. Tires, brakes, wheel bearings, > etc will accumuate miles. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> TIA, >> mdh Will Sill - 25 Feb 2006 12:12 GMT Every time this question arises I ask myself who is fooled? The owner, or the next buyer? Maybe nobody?
Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
CampinGazz - 25 Feb 2006 12:55 GMT > Every time this question arises I ask myself who is fooled? The > owner, or the next buyer? Maybe nobody? There was someone over here in england who bought a car that seemingly had low mileage on it, when they had it serviced they were surprised to have a large bill for worn out wheel bearings, suspension joints and so on, the garage told then that whilst the engine and interior had done the low mileage, the driveline components had done considerably more mileage, and hence the wear not expected by the owner.
When the owner went round to the the last owner, they saw they had a motorhome, and they had a new car which had connection points on it for an A-frame, sure enough when they looked hard enough there was evidence of the connection points having once lived on the car they had bought thinking it had only been driven around town by a granny or something.
The new owners of the car won the ensuing court case, and got a fair bit of compensation, as they had been dileberately mis-lead to the condition of the car, it had a mechanical speedo, and the people who towed it disconnected the speedo drive every time the towed the car when they went on long tours around europe.
Thing is in this country towing a car on an A-frame is relatively uncommon, and unless someone who wants to buy the car is a motorhome owner and knows of the existance of A-frames, spotting a mtorhome parked next to the car they are looking to buy sporting a heavy tow bar and safety chain attatchment points won't trigger their mind to ask the question 'has it been towed on the A-frame with the speedo disconnected'
GBinNC - 25 Feb 2006 13:23 GMT >There was someone over here in england who bought a car that seemingly had >low mileage on it, when they had it serviced they were surprised to have a >large bill for worn out wheel bearings, suspension joints and so on, the >garage told then that whilst the engine and interior had done the low >mileage, the driveline components had done considerably more mileage, and >hence the wear not expected by the owner. That brings up a good point. I don't tow a vehicle and never will, but I think I'd prefer not to rack up "undriven" miles.
If a vehicle has been driven, say, 10k miles and towed another 50k miles, I'd prefer the odometer show only the "rolling" wear than to imply that the engine had 60k of wear on it.
OTOH, I'm the kind of person who would explain the extra towed mileage to a prospective buyer, so in my case it wouldn't be an issue.
YMMV <g>.
GB in NC
ninebal310@aol.com - 25 Feb 2006 13:30 GMT Every time this question arises I ask myself who is fooled? The owner, or the next buyer? Maybe nobody?
Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Buying any car is a gamble, even a new car with 6 miles on it. I would rather find out the car was towed and the engine and tranny had only 50K miles but was towed for another 50K, than buying a car that had 75k on it everything. Tires and shocks can be easily and quickly checked. Most other stuff (bearings, bushings and such) can also be checked with a little effort.
To me, this is a no brainer. I don't think anybody is getting, or being, fooled.
Hank
Mickey - 25 Feb 2006 15:19 GMT > Buying any car is a gamble, even a new car with 6 miles on it. I would > rather find out the car was towed and the engine and tranny had only [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Hank Let's see. The differential(s) are turning but little torques applied. If equipped with CV joints, they are still flexing and at least a portion of their life is flex related. And if the transmission is not designed for towing, those towed miles are very hard miles. Not many vehicles are designed for towing, including some manual transmissions.
Me I'd prefer to know total miles and an explanation of service those miles represent.
Mickey
CampinGazz - 25 Feb 2006 17:12 GMT > Let's see. The differential(s) are turning but little torques applied. > If equipped with CV joints, they are still flexing and at least a portion [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Me I'd prefer to know total miles and an explanation of service those > miles represent. Thats the way i see it,
I dont know about american cars, but european cars the engines usually out live the rest of the vehicle,
over here the body rusts away and that's the main cause of it being scrapped,
But if you keep on top of the rust, at about 100k miles you'll prolly have replaced a few suspension components anyway,
Theres loads of rubber bushes on the suspension joints, and when the car's towed the suspension is still moving, so the bushes will be wearing as is the car was driven, the ball joints are moving, CV joints doing their job and thus wearing, shockers being pounded up and down, springs flexing, the steering rack is being turned every time you take a corner, and not from the steering wheel as it expects, but from the wheels being forced to follow the way the body is dragged but the A frame mounting points,
the gear box is being driven, ok as said it's not under torque, but it's still rotating all the bearings and gears,
So althought hte engine isnt actually running, the vehicle is still going through the motions of being driven down the road, And the car is a lot closer to the tow vehicle than would normaly be if it were driven (well tailgaters excepted) so all the road spray, salt and muck is being blasted into the front of the car, and it's not just the bonnet (hood) and front panel that gets that muck, all the under side components will be getting a nice dosing of corrosive muck.
A couple of months ago my dad bought a new car, he got exactly the same model as his last one as he liked it so much, his old car was 3 years old, and he'd done 80k miles in it, but when he exchanged the old for the new car, he was amazed at how much tigheter everything felt, suspension was tighter, steering more precise, no rattles from wearing components on the drive line etc,
so whilst a car may show 30k miles on the odo, if it's been towed another 50k, then the engine may run like a 30k mile engine, but the car will drive like a 80k mile car, and you've got to expect that you'll be doing repairs to the vehicle that you'd expect of an 80k miler,
that's what the english court case was about, they bought a car with an indicated low mileage, and thus paid top dollar for it, and expected it to last a fair while before needing any major work, and hence werent pleased when they got a big bill for lots of work needed to bring the vehicle back upto a safe condition.
no idea if the origional owners had it serviced on the time scedule, but from the sounds of it they just went on the 'it's due a service at xxk miles, and it's not done that yet, so we wont service it untill then even tho it's now 2 years old and never been looked at'
ninebal310@aol.com - 25 Feb 2006 19:38 GMT Ok, I guess I am the only one that thinks the way I do. I am always leary of ANY auto, even the new ones.
I would still take a chance on an auto that I can tell from looking at the suspension, brakes, shocks and etc. than an engine that has been powerwashed and looks new but the internal parts are worn out.
I would rather replace a CV joint than tranny. I would rather replace shocks before a head gasket and so on.
I think if you do the math you'll find replacing/rebuilding an engine costs MUCH more than all the CV joints, steering arms and shocks.
Hank
CampinGazz - 25 Feb 2006 20:39 GMT > > I think if you do the math you'll find replacing/rebuilding an engine > costs MUCH more than all the CV joints, steering arms and shocks. Well, when i origionaly replied it was because of will mentioning that people get fooled by a car that's showing low mileage on the speedo, and has been towed for double that mileage,
Hence why i mentioned the UK court case, someone bought what they thought was a 2 or 3 year old car with low mileage, so you can see the point that yes they shouldent expect to have to do any engine work at that time... and likewise they shoudlent have expected to have to replace a load of drive line components at such a low mileage either,
At the end of the day the judge sided with them and common sense, the origional owners sold a car saying it was low mileage, like new and so on, soemone bought it and expected that of a car with low mileage and a couple of years old,
you don't expect to find out that only the engine and interior have done the low mileage, and the rest of the car has done another 50k or so,
i guess it's the oposite of my motorhome, 2 years ago i fitted a brand new engine, i got a brand new differential at the same time to adjust the cruising revs to a range more comfortable for motorhome use (i bought it as a van to convert)
I had a brand new coachbuilt (C class) body built on the back, and fitted all new components inside that body,
So in 2004 my motorhome had about 75% brand new components, including the major parts like the engine, i've also totaly replaced the braking system as part of having it's weight uprated, But i couldent sell the van as a brand new or 2 year old one, as the base vehicle still has a chassis, suspension torsion bars and leaf springs, gearbox, steering and so on that's done 130k miles, even tho the engine, axle, body, interior fittings, braking system, shockers and so on have only done about 12k miles,
William Boyd - 25 Feb 2006 22:32 GMT >>>I think if you do the math you'll find replacing/rebuilding an engine >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > even tho the engine, axle, body, interior fittings, braking system, shockers > and so on have only done about 12k miles, Well that is the way it is, in fact to give you the complete skinnie. Go out and buy a vehicle of your choice (1955 Chevy) strip every thing off of the frame including every nut, bolt and sand blast the paint off. Then commence replacing every thing with all never before used parts and what do you have. The same as what you had before you started, The frame is the controlling factor. In fact you might find a code number stamped on the frame that can be traced back to the original year and make of the vehicle. But just think you can sell it as a new 1955 Chevy restored.
 Signature BILL P.
2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SLT, SWB, 2WD, 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. Trojan Batteries, 600watt Inverter Dual EU2000i Hondas Just Me and Dog
ninebal310@aol.com - 26 Feb 2006 02:45 GMT Let's see. The differential(s) are turning but little torques applied. If equipped with CV joints, they are still flexing and at least a portion of their life is flex related. And if the transmission is not designed for towing, those towed miles are very hard miles. Not many vehicles are designed for towing, including some manual transmissions.
Me I'd prefer to know total miles and an explanation of service those miles represent.
Mickey
A long time friend of my mothers bought a brand new 1970 Ford maverick in 1970. It was sold after her death in 1985 with less than 20k miles on it. All oil changes and other mainteance was done as required. I know it was done because I did it. This car was practically new except for some very minor rust on the rear quarter panels. Since I knew the service record and the original owner, I bid and won at the auction to sell her property.
I drove it approx. 3K miles and discovered damn near all the seals were leaking. Tranny seals, axle seals, rear main and etc. All teh bearings were fine, just all the seals were bad. Labor was the same but parts were cheap.
So, my point is: Service records, low mileage adn etc. don't mean a damn thing.
On any used car, buyer beware.
Hank
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