Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / March 2006
2006 Dodge mileage
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JRB - 10 Mar 2006 17:16 GMT I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge 3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The mileage varies from 8mpg (temperature between 30 & 5O Degrees F), to 10 mpg (temperature 60 to 70 Degrees F) at a speed of 60 to 65 mph. The truck is nearly new with 9800 miles. Is this as good as it gets or is there a Duramax in my future?
Thanks for any replies,
JRB
Greg Surratt - 10 Mar 2006 19:13 GMT >I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge >3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >JRB <VBG> Maybe you need to step back to an older Dodge. My '98 RAM Dually Diesel Auto 3.54 gets 12.5 mpg at 60-65 pulling a 34 foot NuWa Hitchiker at 14,000 lbs.
Greg '98 3500 QC 4x2 Cummins ISB, Auto, 3.54:1, Driftwood with Leather and all the heavy duty options. '89 Nu-Wa Champagne Edition, 34 foot Fifth Wheel.
RichA - 13 Mar 2006 19:37 GMT >>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge >>3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Dually Diesel Auto 3.54 gets 12.5 mpg at 60-65 pulling a 34 foot NuWa >Hitchiker at 14,000 lbs. Hi, The OP has a wide spread of MPG between 8 and 10 depending upon the temperature. Sounds like he is going by individual tank averages instead of the overall average. ON my 99 Dodge Diesel over it's life towing and not I've averaged a little over 20 MPG. When I towed a travel trailer 13,000 K GVW usually weighted more like 9.5K I averaged 10.75 MPG. With the MH and the Cummins ISL diesel towing a CR-V I've averaged 8.65.
Like someone else said the wind resistance is the big factor, second is the speed and the driver, third is the weight.
You won't get much better if any better MPG with any of the other diesel pickups, Chevy or Ford. When you tow something you have to use energy to move it.
Take care and Happy Campin...
pdrahn@coinet.com - 10 Mar 2006 20:19 GMT Well, several things might improve your mileage. First, slow to 55mph or so. Second, the better mileage at higher temperatures indicates the truck and/or trailer tire pressures are low. Be sure the truck's tires are at the pressure indicated on the truck door tag. Third, find out the engine RPM that produces maximum torque. That will be your best mileage speed. Finally, your mileage will be a direct correlation with how much time is spent in 6th gear!
I guess,the last piece of information is your truck will continue to get better mileage after it is "broken in". Perhaps 20,000 to 25,000 miles.
You have to work at getting better mileage, it just doesn't "occure". Good luck.
Paul Redmond, OR. 97 Dodge 2500 4X4 New 2005 29 ft, Keystone Cougar
Tom J - 10 Mar 2006 22:51 GMT > I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a > '06 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > JRB JRB, 1st thing you do is fill the fuel tank/s and take a reading. Then every fill up put down the gallons. Don't do any totaling up except every 1,000 or 10,000 miles, then you'll know what your mileage really is. In the meantime, if you want a Duramax, buy it, but don't expect a lot of difference in mileage. Just so you know, the people reporting mileage numbers much above what you are getting are picking and choosing which fill-ups to talk about.
Tom J who is happy with 9.0 for 90,000 miles 80% to 90% towing the trailer @ 55 - 60
William Boyd - 14 Mar 2006 07:53 GMT Tom J wrote:
>>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a >>'06 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > who is happy with 9.0 for 90,000 miles 80% to 90% towing the trailer @ > 55 - 60 Bull sh.t Tom get in the modern world his Ram as does mine has a computer that keeps accurate miles per gallon information in several ways.
 Signature BILL P.
2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SLT, SWB, 2WD, 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. Trojan Batteries, 600watt Inverter Dual EU2000i Hondas Just Me and Dog
Ron Recer - 11 Mar 2006 01:02 GMT >I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge >3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks for any replies, '01 Chevy 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed Dually 2x4 6.6L Duramax, Allison 5 speed Automatic, 3.73 95,629 total miles average 13.38 mpg That breaks down to: 36,591 miles of towing averaging 9.65 mpg (35' triple slide 5er weighed 12,200 pounds dry) mostly 65 mph 59,038 miles solo averaging 17.58 mpg
'06 Chevy 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed Dually 4x4 6.6L HO Duramax, Allison 6 speed Automatic, 3.73 4,2241 total miles average 15.59 mpg (mostly urban driving in south Texas) That breaks down to: 284 miles of towing averaging 11.49 mpg (same 5er as above) all at 50-52 mph and never been in 5th or 6th gears towing 3,937 miles solo averaging 16.00 mpg
The mpg on the '01 continued to increase until it had been driven about 25,000 miles. After another 200 miles of towing on the '06 I'll kick it on up to 65 mph or so and see what it does towing in 5th and possibly in 6th.
Ron
RAM³ - 11 Mar 2006 16:21 GMT >I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge >3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The >mileage varies from 8mpg (temperature between 30 & 5O Degrees F), to 10 mpg >(temperature 60 to 70 Degrees F) at a speed of 60 to 65 mph. The truck is >nearly new with 9800 miles. Is this as good as it gets or is there a >Duramax in my future? When you "hear" the high-MPG claims, be aware that most are from people driving 50-55 on the highway in states where that's the non-interstate speed limit.
They're also not towing anything with a large frontal area.
Those who tow trailers with a large frontal area get, on average, far lower MPG simply because of the wind resistance. While I usually get 10.5 - 11 MPG @ 50-55 (depending on wind direction/strength) this drops to ~9.5@65 and as low as 8.5@75 on an uphill run.
FWIW, my "all-time best" towing mileage was 15.2 @ 60 mph - with a 60 mph tailwind. <G>
I'm driving an '03.5 Dodge RAM 3500 4WD DRW HO-CTD 4.10 with a 48RE auto. It's pulling an '03 Montana 3655FL 14K# FW.
Dan, danl, danny boy, Redbeard, actually Greybeard now - 13 Mar 2006 15:47 GMT >>>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge >>>3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> >>>JRB Hi all, I have been following this thread and was wondering if anyone here has contemplated using propane injection as a milage booster. I have little knowledge about propane injection, other than ads and articles that proclaim tremendous milage gains. I don't believe the milage claims but think there may be enough of an increase to warrant a more detailed examination of propane injection.
No, I do not have a diesel at this time, but it never hurts to research options.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and any info that may come from it.
I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it! danl4x@charter.net Remove the x for e-mail reply www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.SecretWeaponLures.com A proud charter member of "PETAF", People for Eating Tasty Animals and Fish!!!
JerryD(upstateNY) - 13 Mar 2006 16:10 GMT >>I have been following this thread and was wondering if anyone here has contemplated using propane injection as a milage booster.<<
There is no free lunch. You will get better GASOLINE/DIESEL mileage but the cost of the propane burned will be more than what you saved on gasloine/diesel. That's not even mentioning the cost of the propane injection system. You would be better off putting one of those magnets on your gas line. It wouldn't be as expensive and would do as much good.
 Signature JerryD(upstateNY)
"Hi all, I have little knowledge about propane injection, other than ads and articles that proclaim tremendous milage gains. I don't believe the milage claims but think there may be enough of an increase to warrant a more detailed examination of propane injection.
No, I do not have a diesel at this time, but it never hurts to research options.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and any info that may come from it.
I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it! danl4x@charter.net Remove the x for e-mail reply www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.SecretWeaponLures.com A proud charter member of "PETAF", People for Eating Tasty Animals and Fish!!!
RichA - 13 Mar 2006 19:32 GMT >>>>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge >>>>3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Thanks for taking the time to read this and any info that may come >from it. Hi, When you add the cost of the propane injection system and the cost of the propane you don't gain anything. Besides that you may cause more wear and tear on engine or void any warranty that may still be on it. Diesels normally get better milage then gasoline vehicles and that's especially true towing anything heavy.
Take care and Happy Campin...
wwemu@cwnet.com - 14 Mar 2006 01:42 GMT >Hi all, >I have been following this thread and was wondering if anyone here has [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Thanks for taking the time to read this and any info that may come >from it. Dan,
I have read the replies you got so far and all are from people that have never tried it. When in the service, I was taught, "Don't knock it if you haven't tried it!"
I installed propane injection on a GM Converted bus and know several others that have done likewise. The biggest thing you will notice is an increase in performance. Much like adding another gear to you rig, it will climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in mileage, about 10% is the best I have seen. Much depends upon how much you use the extra power.
I have test driven a F 350 with the kit installed and the increase in performance was phenomenal. This was the Bully Dog kit.
I know truckers that use Propane injection and are very happy with it. I talked to the experts at Cummins when I was contemplating the installation. There was general agreement that it would decrease the life expectancy of the engine to some amount. Considering that the engine I had was expected to go 500,000 miles plus and that the added power drawn from the engine would decrease that by approximately 25,000 miles, I felt that the added performance was worth the sacrifice.
BTW, the engine ran cooler with the addition of the propane and the exhaust emissions decreased - not all bad.
those are a few of my thoughts and experiences actually sing the system.
George
JerryD(upstateNY) - 14 Mar 2006 02:38 GMT >>>The biggest thing you will notice is an increase in performance. it will >>>climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in mileage, about 10% is the best I have seen.<<<
Injecting propane may very well increase performance BUT........ he didn't say he wanted higher performance. He asked about "propane injection as a milage booster". You say you get a 10% increase in mileage. What happens when you add the price of the propane into the cost of fuel ? There is no way you will come out ahead because propane cost more than fuel oil or gasoline.
 Signature JerryD(upstateNY)
wwemu@cwnet.com - 14 Mar 2006 04:46 GMT On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:38:47 GMT, "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerry@righthere.com> wrote:
>>>>The biggest thing you will notice is an increase in performance. it will >>>>climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >There is no way you will come out ahead because propane cost more than fuel >oil or gasoline. I'm sorry - You obviously know more about the system than I do. After all You are the expert with all the experience. Since you know so much, how about providing some figures to back up your bogus claims.
George
Will Sill - 14 Mar 2006 13:58 GMT I see where "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerry@righthere.com> contributed regarding some remarks by Geo Lowry, who said:
>>>>The biggest thing you will notice is an increase in performance. it will >>>>climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in >mileage, about 10% is the best I have seen.<<< JD:
>Injecting propane may very well increase performance BUT........ he didn't >say he wanted higher performance. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >There is no way you will come out ahead because propane cost more than fuel >oil or gasoline. Jerry, a word to the wise: Geo Lowry knows more about his subject than you do, by a large margin. If he says he gets as much as a "About 10% [increase] is the best I've seen], don't interpret that as you did - read what he said, not what you assumed. Your questions about whether he "comes out ahead" may well be valid, but this is one modification that has proven to benefit BOTH performance and mileage - whether or not it actually saves money over all (which he did not claim!).
By contrast, the vast majority of so-called performance/mileage enhancers are mostly (and in some cases entirely) hype. Headers and aftermarket air filters, for example, are right up there with louvered tailgates and fuel line magnets. Propane injection, OTOH, actually works.
Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
JerryD(upstateNY) - 14 Mar 2006 15:12 GMT > Jerry, a word to the wise: Geo Lowry knows more about his subject > than you do, by a large margin. If he says he gets as much as a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Will Sill > The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill I agree with the more power part. It's the more power AND more mileage that I can't believe. Because the price of fuel oil is the largest cost of operating a trailer truck, every truck manufacturer would be using propane injection if gave you more power AND better mileage.
 Signature JerryD(upstateNY)
RAM³ - 14 Mar 2006 23:43 GMT >> Jerry, a word to the wise: Geo Lowry knows more about his subject >> than you do, by a large margin. If he says he gets as much as a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > truck, every truck manufacturer would be using propane injection if gave > you more power AND better mileage. Actually not, Jerry, for the simple reason that, in general, you won't find a propane refilling point at every Diesel pump. <G> There's also the reason that, with their pricing structures, they would have to add double the cost of the installed system to each [already high-priced] Diesel-engined vehicle they make.
The issue, here, is that the volume of propane required to support the large-sized engines comes at the cost of the weight and volume of the tank required to supply the propane when used continuously.
It's simpler (and cheaper) in the long run to install a slightly more powerful engine than it is to have to make 2 fuel stops - 1 for the Diesel and 1 for the propane - when *time* is your enemy.
Propane Injection is better suited to *occasional* use when a bit more power is needed for a short time [getting up a hill, starting out with a heavy load] in much the same way as NOx injection on a gasoline-fuelled engine.
The argument over "power enhancements" - chips, injection systems, etc. - providing "economy enhancements" - lower fuel usage, etc. - is dependent upon driving style and vehicle usage remaining exactly the same. This, as I'm sure you know, is most unlikely outside of a "test" environment. ["If you've got it, flaunt it!"]
Propane Injection Systems *do* deliver what they promise *but* at a continuing price: you have to give up space for an additional fuel tank that you'll have to go out of your way to get refilled at inconvenient times (unless you always stop at Flying-J RV islands for fuel <G>).
For those smaller engines *not* used in OTR trucks - Cummins ISB, Navistar 6L, Isuzu - an electronic solution tailorable to specific requirements can be applied far more inexpensively *without* the need for the tanks and plumbing required for a PI System but still provide the same benefits.
SnoMan - 14 Mar 2006 14:03 GMT On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:38:47 GMT, "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerry@righthere.com> wrote:
>>>>The biggest thing you will notice is an increase in performance. it will >>>>climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >There is no way you will come out ahead because propane cost more than fuel >oil or gasoline. Propane cost less than gas or diesel when bought bulk (about 1.60/gal here now) but it has less energy than gas does (about 90k vs 125K BTUs) and less than diesel too (90K vs about 140K) and it is the heat from this energy that drives a engine. Not sure why you would want to use propane injection because though it might boost engine a bit, you have to buy the propane to burn it and that reflects in true MPG costs. If you take the time to convert a gas engine properly to propane it is a lot more feasable. Propane does not yeild its true worth in a regula4 gas motor because of its reduced heat content. It does have very high octane though (about 110 and the reason it is feasable to inject it in a diesel) and if you build a gas motor to run on propane with 12 to 1 CR or higher you will be pleased with the results because you will see a big power boost and MPG simular to what you get with a gas motor running lower compression. One of the main reasons for diesel efficency is high CR ratios which boost thermodynamic efficency. Do the same with a gas/propane motor with proper fuel octane ad sizeable gains can be made with them in MPG and power. The reality is though that the continued use of 87 octane by many limits power on MPG as well as engine design because in order to run it in a modern engine, the ECM has to retard spark a lot (before you hear it knock) and one reason some gas tow vehicles do so poorly on towing MPG.
Dan, danl, danny boy, Redbeard, actually Greybeard now - 14 Mar 2006 04:53 GMT >>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:47:23 -0600, "Dan, danl, danny boy, Redbeard, >>>actually Greybeard now" <danl4x@charter.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >>> >>>George Thanks George, that is about what I figured from what I have read. As I understand it, if you would keep the propane injection to the minimum amount needed to increase milage the overall wear on the engine would be very minimal. Cooler running is also a plus along with less combustion by-product to mix with the oil. There are a lot of issues with it such as cost of a system and the cost of propane. The low amounts injected would make a 8 to 10 persent jump in milage worth it over the life of a diesel. The reason I am interested in this is I am thinking the next truck I buy will be a diesel. I also was waiting for a prescription to be filled and grabbed a mag off the rack that had an article claiming to have raised the empty milage of a diesel pickup from 20MPG to 44MPG. Now I knew that kind of jump was bullshit and wanted to hear what people that have done it had come up with for milage increases in the real world. It's nice to know that people with real world experience still share information on the net. Thanks
I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it! danl4x@charter.net Remove the x for e-mail reply www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.SecretWeaponLures.com A proud charter member of "PETAF", People for Eating Tasty Animals and Fish!!!
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 14 Mar 2006 06:53 GMT >I installed propane injection on a GM Converted bus and know several >others that have done likewise. . [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >George How much more did it cost to run the propane set-up as opposed to straight diesel? IOW, does the added performance produce enough improvement to justify the additional cost of the kit, tank, and installation?
I'm running a Banks system on my Cummins. Would the propane cause unacceptable added stress on the engine?
Canoli
wwemu@cwnet.com - 14 Mar 2006 07:41 GMT >>I installed propane injection on a GM Converted bus and know several >>others that have done likewise. . [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Canoli Hi Canoli,
I only used it for climbing hills and occasionally for acceleration, not full time as I only had a 7 1/2 gallon bottle. I talked to several truckers who used it and were happy with the results.
I just ran off some rough figures for another person. It calculates that, with a 10% increase in mileage, you should save around $1.75 every 100 miles.
I did the installation myself and used a bottle that was already there. The only added cost was the kit itself. I would do it again if I thought I needed it. I wanted the performance more than mileage.
As far as added stress, it would cause no more than anything else you do to increase performance. Remember that your engine is only burning approximately 75% of the diesel that is injected in the cylinder, the rest going out the tail pipe. What they do is fumigate the intake air with the propane which acts like a catalyst increasing the diesel burn to 95%. This way you are getting added power and cleaner burn with the same amount of diesel fuel.
Hope this helps you.
George
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