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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / March 2006

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2006 Dodge mileage

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JRB - 10 Mar 2006 17:16 GMT
I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge
3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The
mileage varies from 8mpg (temperature between 30 & 5O Degrees F), to 10 mpg
(temperature 60 to 70 Degrees F) at a speed of 60 to 65 mph. The truck is
nearly new with 9800 miles. Is this as good as it gets or is there a Duramax
in my future?

Thanks for any replies,

JRB
Greg Surratt - 10 Mar 2006 19:13 GMT
>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge
>3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>JRB

<VBG>  Maybe you need to step back to an older Dodge.  My '98 RAM
Dually Diesel Auto 3.54 gets 12.5 mpg at 60-65 pulling a 34 foot NuWa
Hitchiker at 14,000 lbs.

Greg
'98 3500 QC 4x2 Cummins ISB, Auto, 3.54:1,
Driftwood with Leather and all the heavy duty options.
'89 Nu-Wa Champagne Edition, 34 foot Fifth Wheel.
RichA - 13 Mar 2006 19:37 GMT
>>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge
>>3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Dually Diesel Auto 3.54 gets 12.5 mpg at 60-65 pulling a 34 foot NuWa
>Hitchiker at 14,000 lbs.
Hi,
The OP has a wide spread of MPG between 8 and 10 depending upon the
temperature.  Sounds like he is going by individual tank averages
instead of the overall average.  ON my 99 Dodge Diesel over it's life
towing and not I've averaged a little over 20 MPG.   When I towed a
travel trailer 13,000 K GVW usually weighted more like 9.5K  I averaged
10.75 MPG. With the MH and the Cummins ISL diesel towing a CR-V I've
averaged 8.65.

Like someone else said the wind resistance is the big factor, second is
the speed and the driver, third is the weight.

You won't get much better if any better MPG with any of the other
diesel pickups, Chevy or Ford.  When you tow something you have to use
energy to move it.

Take care and Happy Campin...
pdrahn@coinet.com - 10 Mar 2006 20:19 GMT
Well, several things might improve your mileage. First, slow to 55mph
or so. Second, the better mileage at higher temperatures indicates the
truck and/or trailer tire pressures are low. Be sure the truck's tires
are at the pressure indicated on the truck door tag. Third, find out
the engine RPM that produces maximum torque. That will be your best
mileage speed. Finally, your mileage will be a direct correlation with
how much time is spent in 6th gear!

I guess,the last piece of information is your truck will continue to
get better mileage after it is "broken in". Perhaps 20,000 to 25,000
miles.

You have to work at getting better mileage, it just doesn't "occure".
Good luck.

Paul
Redmond, OR.
97 Dodge 2500 4X4
New 2005 29 ft, Keystone Cougar
Tom  J - 10 Mar 2006 22:51 GMT
> I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a
> '06
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> JRB

JRB, 1st thing you do is fill the fuel tank/s and take a reading. Then
every fill up put down the gallons. Don't do any totaling up except
every 1,000 or 10,000 miles, then you'll know what your mileage really
is. In the meantime, if you want a Duramax, buy it, but don't expect a
lot of difference in mileage. Just so you know, the people reporting
mileage numbers much above what you are getting are picking and
choosing which fill-ups to talk about.

Tom J
who is happy with 9.0 for 90,000 miles 80% to 90% towing the trailer @
55 - 60
William Boyd - 14 Mar 2006 07:53 GMT
Tom J wrote:

>>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a
>>'06
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> who is happy with 9.0 for 90,000 miles 80% to 90% towing the trailer @
> 55 - 60

Bull sh.t Tom get in the modern world his Ram as does mine
has a computer that keeps accurate miles per gallon
information in several ways.

Signature

BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Trojan Batteries, 600watt Inverter
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog

Ron Recer - 11 Mar 2006 01:02 GMT
>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge
>3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks for any replies,

'01 Chevy 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed Dually 2x4 6.6L Duramax, Allison 5 speed
Automatic, 3.73
95,629 total miles average 13.38 mpg
That breaks down to:
36,591 miles of towing averaging 9.65 mpg (35' triple slide 5er weighed
12,200 pounds dry) mostly 65 mph
59,038 miles solo averaging 17.58 mpg

'06 Chevy 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed Dually 4x4 6.6L HO Duramax, Allison 6 speed
Automatic, 3.73
4,2241 total miles average 15.59 mpg (mostly urban driving in south Texas)
That breaks down to:
284 miles of towing averaging 11.49 mpg (same 5er as above) all at 50-52 mph
and never been in 5th or 6th gears towing
3,937 miles solo averaging 16.00 mpg

The mpg on the '01 continued to increase until it had been driven about
25,000 miles.  After another 200 miles of towing on the '06 I'll kick it on
up to 65 mph or so and see what it does towing in 5th and possibly in 6th.

Ron
RAM³ - 11 Mar 2006 16:21 GMT
>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge
>3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The
>mileage varies from 8mpg (temperature between 30 & 5O Degrees F), to 10 mpg
>(temperature 60 to 70 Degrees F) at a speed of 60 to 65 mph. The truck is
>nearly new with 9800 miles. Is this as good as it gets or is there a
>Duramax in my future?

When you "hear" the high-MPG claims, be aware that most are from people
driving 50-55 on the highway in states where that's the non-interstate speed
limit.

They're also not towing anything with a large frontal area.

Those who tow trailers with a large frontal area get, on average, far lower
MPG simply because of the wind resistance. While I usually get 10.5 - 11 MPG
@ 50-55 (depending on wind direction/strength) this drops to ~9.5@65 and as
low as 8.5@75 on an uphill run.

FWIW, my "all-time best" towing mileage was 15.2 @ 60 mph - with a 60 mph
tailwind. <G>

I'm driving an '03.5 Dodge RAM 3500 4WD DRW HO-CTD 4.10 with a 48RE auto.
It's pulling an '03 Montana 3655FL 14K# FW.
Dan, danl, danny boy, Redbeard, actually Greybeard now - 13 Mar 2006 15:47 GMT
>>>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge
>>>3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>>
>>>JRB

Hi all,
I have been following this thread and was wondering if anyone here has
contemplated using propane injection as a milage booster.  I have
little knowledge about propane injection, other than ads and articles
that proclaim tremendous milage gains.  I don't believe the milage
claims but think there may be enough of an increase to warrant a more
detailed examination of propane injection.

No, I do not have a diesel at this time, but it never hurts to
research options.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and any info that may come
from it.

I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!
danl4x@charter.net
Remove the x for e-mail reply
www.outdoorfrontiers.com
www.SecretWeaponLures.com
A proud charter member of "PETAF", People for Eating Tasty Animals and Fish!!!
JerryD(upstateNY) - 13 Mar 2006 16:10 GMT
>>I have been following this thread and was wondering if anyone here has
contemplated using propane injection as a milage booster.<<

There is no free lunch.
You will get better GASOLINE/DIESEL mileage but the cost of the propane
burned will be more than what you saved on gasloine/diesel.
That's not even mentioning the cost of the propane injection system.
You would be better off putting one of those magnets on your gas line.
It wouldn't be as expensive and would do as much good.

Signature

JerryD(upstateNY)

"Hi all,
 I have
little knowledge about propane injection, other than ads and articles
that proclaim tremendous milage gains.  I don't believe the milage
claims but think there may be enough of an increase to warrant a more
detailed examination of propane injection.

No, I do not have a diesel at this time, but it never hurts to
research options.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and any info that may come
from it.

I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!
danl4x@charter.net
Remove the x for e-mail reply
www.outdoorfrontiers.com
www.SecretWeaponLures.com
A proud charter member of "PETAF", People for Eating Tasty Animals and
Fish!!!

RichA - 13 Mar 2006 19:32 GMT
>>>>I am towing an Artic Fox 29-5 (13,500 pounds fully loaded) with a '06 Dodge
>>>>3500 Diesel,w/ DRW, 3.7X rear end, and a 6 spd manual transmission. The
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>Thanks for taking the time to read this and any info that may come
>from it.

Hi,
When you add the cost of the propane injection system and the cost of
the propane you don't gain anything.  Besides that you may cause more
wear and tear on engine or void any warranty that may still be on it.
Diesels normally get better milage then gasoline vehicles and that's
especially true towing anything heavy.

Take care and Happy Campin...
wwemu@cwnet.com - 14 Mar 2006 01:42 GMT
>Hi all,
>I have been following this thread and was wondering if anyone here has
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Thanks for taking the time to read this and any info that may come
>from it.

Dan,

I have read the replies you got so far and all are from people that
have never tried it.  When in the service, I was taught, "Don't knock
it if you haven't tried it!"

I installed propane injection on a GM Converted bus and know several
others that have done likewise.  The biggest thing you will notice is
an increase in performance. Much like adding another gear to you rig,
it will climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in
mileage, about 10% is the best I have seen.  Much depends upon how
much you use the extra power.  

I have test driven a F 350 with the kit installed and the increase in
performance was phenomenal. This was the Bully Dog kit.

I know truckers that use Propane injection and are very happy with it.
I talked to the experts at Cummins when I was contemplating the
installation. There was general agreement that it would decrease the
life expectancy of the engine to some amount. Considering that the
engine I had was expected to go 500,000 miles plus and that the added
power drawn from the engine would decrease that by approximately
25,000 miles, I felt that the added performance was worth the
sacrifice.

BTW, the engine ran cooler with the addition of the propane and the
exhaust emissions decreased - not all bad.

those are a few of my thoughts and experiences actually sing the
system.

George
JerryD(upstateNY) - 14 Mar 2006 02:38 GMT
>>>The biggest thing you will notice is an increase in performance. it will
>>>climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in
mileage, about 10% is the best I have seen.<<<

Injecting propane may very well increase performance BUT........ he didn't
say he wanted higher performance.
He asked about "propane injection as a milage booster".
You say you get a 10% increase in mileage.
What happens when you add the price of the propane into the cost of fuel ?
There is no way you will come out ahead because propane cost more than fuel
oil or gasoline.

Signature

JerryD(upstateNY)

wwemu@cwnet.com - 14 Mar 2006 04:46 GMT
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:38:47 GMT, "JerryD\(upstateNY\)"
<jerry@righthere.com> wrote:

>>>>The biggest thing you will notice is an increase in performance. it will
>>>>climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>There is no way you will come out ahead because propane cost more than fuel
>oil or gasoline.

I'm sorry - You obviously know more about the system than I do. After
all You are the expert with all the experience.  Since you know so
much, how about providing some figures to back up your bogus claims.

George
Will Sill - 14 Mar 2006 13:58 GMT
I see where "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerry@righthere.com> contributed
regarding some remarks by Geo Lowry, who said:
>>>>The biggest thing you will notice is an increase in performance. it will
>>>>climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in
>mileage, about 10% is the best I have seen.<<<

JD:
>Injecting propane may very well increase performance BUT........ he didn't
>say he wanted higher performance.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>There is no way you will come out ahead because propane cost more than fuel
>oil or gasoline.

Jerry, a word to the wise:   Geo Lowry knows more about his subject
than you do, by a large margin.   If he says he gets as much as a
"About 10% [increase] is the best I've seen], don't interpret that as
you did - read what he said, not what you assumed.   Your questions
about whether he "comes out ahead"  may well be valid, but this is one
modification that has proven to benefit BOTH performance and mileage -
whether or not it actually saves money over all (which he did not
claim!).  

By contrast, the vast majority of so-called performance/mileage
enhancers are mostly (and in some cases entirely) hype.  Headers and
aftermarket air filters, for example, are right up there with louvered
tailgates and fuel line magnets.  Propane injection, OTOH, actually
works.

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
JerryD(upstateNY) - 14 Mar 2006 15:12 GMT
> Jerry, a word to the wise:   Geo Lowry knows more about his subject
> than you do, by a large margin.   If he says he gets as much as a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Will Sill
> The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill

I agree with the more power part.
It's the more power AND more mileage that I can't believe.
Because the price of fuel oil is the largest cost of operating a trailer
truck, every truck manufacturer would be using propane injection if gave you
more power AND better mileage.
Signature

JerryD(upstateNY)

RAM³ - 14 Mar 2006 23:43 GMT
>> Jerry, a word to the wise:   Geo Lowry knows more about his subject
>> than you do, by a large margin.   If he says he gets as much as a
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> truck, every truck manufacturer would be using propane injection if gave
> you more power AND better mileage.

Actually not, Jerry, for the simple reason that, in general, you won't find
a propane refilling point at every Diesel pump. <G> There's also the reason
that, with their pricing structures, they would have to add double the cost
of the installed system to each [already high-priced] Diesel-engined vehicle
they make.

The issue, here, is that the volume of propane required to support the
large-sized engines comes at the cost of the weight and volume of the tank
required to supply the propane when used continuously.

It's simpler (and cheaper) in the long run to install a slightly more
powerful engine than it is to have to make 2 fuel stops - 1 for the Diesel
and 1 for the propane - when *time* is your enemy.

Propane Injection is better suited to *occasional* use when a bit more power
is needed for a short time [getting up a hill, starting out with a heavy
load] in much the same way as NOx injection on a gasoline-fuelled engine.

The argument over "power enhancements" - chips, injection systems, etc. -
providing "economy enhancements" - lower fuel usage, etc. - is dependent
upon driving style and vehicle usage remaining exactly the same. This, as
I'm sure you know, is most unlikely outside of a "test" environment. ["If
you've got it, flaunt it!"]

Propane Injection Systems *do* deliver what they promise *but* at a
continuing price: you have to give up space for an additional fuel tank that
you'll have to go out of your way to get refilled at inconvenient times
(unless you always stop at Flying-J RV islands for fuel <G>).

For those smaller engines *not* used in OTR trucks - Cummins ISB, Navistar
6L, Isuzu - an electronic solution tailorable to specific requirements can
be applied far more inexpensively *without* the need for the tanks and
plumbing required for a PI System but still provide the same benefits.
SnoMan - 14 Mar 2006 14:03 GMT
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:38:47 GMT, "JerryD\(upstateNY\)"
<jerry@righthere.com> wrote:

>>>>The biggest thing you will notice is an increase in performance. it will
>>>>climb better and accelerate better. There is some increase in
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>There is no way you will come out ahead because propane cost more than fuel
>oil or gasoline.

Propane cost less than gas or diesel when bought bulk (about 1.60/gal
here now) but it has less energy than gas does (about 90k vs 125K
BTUs) and less than diesel too (90K vs about 140K) and it is the heat
from this energy that drives a engine. Not sure why you would want to
use propane injection because though it might boost engine a bit, you
have to buy the propane to burn it and that reflects in true MPG
costs. If you take the time to convert a gas engine properly to
propane it is a lot more feasable. Propane does not yeild its true
worth in a regula4 gas motor because of its reduced heat content. It
does have very high octane though (about 110 and the reason it is
feasable to inject it in a diesel)  and if you build a gas motor to
run on propane with 12 to 1 CR or higher you will be pleased with the
results because you will see a big power boost and MPG simular to what
you get with a gas motor running lower compression. One of the main
reasons for diesel efficency is high CR ratios which boost
thermodynamic efficency. Do the same with a gas/propane motor with
proper fuel octane ad sizeable gains can be made with them in MPG and
power. The reality is though that the continued use of 87 octane by
many limits power on MPG as well as engine design because in order to
run it in a modern engine, the ECM has to retard spark a lot (before
you hear it knock) and one reason some gas tow vehicles do so poorly
on towing MPG.
Dan, danl, danny boy, Redbeard, actually Greybeard now - 14 Mar 2006 04:53 GMT
>>>On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:47:23 -0600, "Dan, danl, danny boy, Redbeard,
>>>actually Greybeard now" <danl4x@charter.net> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>>>
>>>George

Thanks George, that is about what I figured from what I have read.  As
I understand it, if you would keep the propane injection to the
minimum amount needed to increase milage the overall wear on the
engine would be very minimal.  Cooler running is also a plus along
with less combustion by-product to mix with the oil.  There are a lot
of issues with it such as cost of a system and the cost of propane.
The low amounts injected would make a 8 to 10 persent jump in milage
worth it over the life of a diesel.  The reason I am interested in
this is I am thinking the next truck I buy will be a diesel.  I also
was waiting for a prescription to be filled and grabbed a mag off the
rack that had an article claiming to have raised the empty milage of a
diesel pickup from 20MPG to 44MPG.  Now I knew that kind of jump was
bullshit and wanted to hear what people that have done it had come up
with for milage increases in the real world.
It's nice to know that people with real world experience still share
information on the net.
Thanks

I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!
danl4x@charter.net
Remove the x for e-mail reply
www.outdoorfrontiers.com
www.SecretWeaponLures.com
A proud charter member of "PETAF", People for Eating Tasty Animals and Fish!!!
canoli@sbcglobal.net - 14 Mar 2006 06:53 GMT
>I installed propane injection on a GM Converted bus and know several
>others that have done likewise.  .  
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>George

How much more did it cost to run the propane set-up as opposed to
straight diesel? IOW, does the added performance produce enough
improvement to justify the additional cost of the kit, tank, and
installation?

I'm running a Banks system on my Cummins.  Would the propane cause
unacceptable added stress on the engine?

Canoli
wwemu@cwnet.com - 14 Mar 2006 07:41 GMT
>>I installed propane injection on a GM Converted bus and know several
>>others that have done likewise.  .  
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Canoli
Hi Canoli,

I only used it for climbing hills and occasionally for acceleration,
not full time as I only had a 7 1/2 gallon bottle.  I talked to
several truckers who used it and were happy with the results.

I just ran off some rough figures for another person. It calculates
that, with a 10% increase in mileage, you should save around $1.75
every 100 miles.

I did the installation myself and used a bottle that was already
there.  The only added cost was the kit itself. I would do it again if
I thought I needed it. I wanted the performance more than mileage.

As far as added stress, it would cause no more than anything else you
do to increase performance. Remember that your engine is only burning
approximately 75% of the diesel that is injected in the cylinder, the
rest going out the tail pipe. What they do is fumigate the intake air
with the propane which acts like a catalyst increasing the diesel burn
to 95%. This way you are getting added power and cleaner burn with the
same amount of diesel fuel.

Hope this helps you.

George
 
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