Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / March 2006
Best Ultralight 19' TT for towing with BMW X5
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pgmacdonald@gmail.com - 21 Mar 2006 04:16 GMT I am realatively new to RV travel and I am in the market for a new lightweight travel trailer to tow with my BMW X5 3.0. The SUV is rated for 6,000 lbs. I've towed with it before and, unlike other mid-sized SUVs I've heard of, it does quite well.
I am comparing a 19' Trail-Cruiser (Dual-axle, Dry Weight 2756, 8' wide), 19' Jayco (Single-axle, GVWR 3750, 7.5' wide) and 19' Airstream Bambi (Single-axle, GVWR 4500, 8' wide). I haven't had the opportunity to tow any of these trailers yet and I am interested in some experienced opinions from others in this group. Any thoughts on which one will tow the best with my vehicle (or any other for that matter). My decision is really going to come down to ease of towing. I rather have an F-250 Diesel but that isn't in the cards so I plan to base my decision on the safest bet possible.
Any other thoughts on my possible selection would be welcomed as well.
Thanks, Paul
Steve B - 21 Mar 2006 04:38 GMT >I am realatively new to RV travel and I am in the market for a new > lightweight travel trailer to tow with my BMW X5 3.0. The SUV is rated [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks, > Paul Do this:
Get a .38 caliber pistol. Get one bullet. Go out in the country somewhere. Load the gun. Put it to your temple. Pull the trigger until things go black.
That way, you will achieve the same result as what you are considering in the RV realm, but you won't hurt anyone else in the process.
You need to talk to a salesman who doesn't want to sell you the trailer so bad that he will endanger the lives of innocents to get his commission.
That combination might pull down the road, but just don't hit anything slippery, go round curves too fast, hit the brakes, drive in windy conditions, get near the slip stream of a semi, or anything else that would blow this feather off the road.
Buy a real vehicle that will handle a lot more than you will be towing. Or keep your Beemer and rent hotel rooms. And if you do tow this bad dream, let me know where so I can be on the lookout.
Steve
pgmacdonald@gmail.com - 21 Mar 2006 05:08 GMT Interesting response but I'm not surprised. I've been to three different RV dealers and they all assure me that I'm fine with any of the options I've listed. Moreover, they indicate the desire to direct me to folks who own similar trailers and who tow with a similar vehicle. The only reason I even bothered to pose the question in this newsgroup is because of previous posts from other individuals who seem to have the same opinion as you do.
I'm out of RV dealers in the area. Could it be that they are all uninformed and/or reckless? If so, could someone recommend an RV dealer in Canada that will give me an honest answer?
Thanks...and I think I'll pass on the .38. Paul
Steve B - 21 Mar 2006 05:55 GMT > Interesting response but I'm not surprised. I've been to three > different RV dealers and they all assure me that I'm fine with any of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks...and I think I'll pass on the .38. > Paul Pardon me for being blunt, but I have heard this question from a hundred or so souls who wanted information regarding underpowered underweight (or both) tow vehicles pulling overweight loads. And then they were offended by the answers posted.
So, let start new.
Welcome to RVing. It is infections and addicting. And, like any addiction, it can cause common sense, caution, and good judgment to be left in a mayonnaise jar on the back porch when we indulge in this addiction.
The goal of any RV is to go out and have a good time, do it safely, and return home. In that process, you must wend your way through a minefield of semi truck tire carcasses, live deer, live idiots driving motor vehicles, wind, weather, ice, dumped tranny fluid and antifreeze, surprises that jump out and go boo, and a thousand other real situations. Bad enough if you are just in your regular car, but now you got this big heavy thing strapped to your backside, and you can't just hit a button and turn it loose.
So, you want to control this beast. You ever see an elephant handler. He uses a small stick. Ever seen what happens when that elephant goes crazy and does what it wants to do? It ain't pretty, and that little stick is useless. You don't want no little stick. You want something that will control that beast that can kill you.
I have seen a lot of highway accidents. They had many causes. Driver inattention, fatigue, equipment failure, inexperienced driver, weather, bad luck, brain farts, lots of reasons. But, I have seen many a RV rig in a ditch because the hauling setup wasn't adequate. Too small a tow vehicle, too big a load. Then something happened. Someone swerved. A gust of wind. And off she goes into the next zip code.
Why do you disdain a 250 as a tow vehicle and insist on the Beemer?
Remember this: whatever you choose as a tow vehicle, and whatever trailer/setup you choose ............
you are betting your life on it ......... and the lives of your passengers ........... and the lives of others on the road you don't even know .............
The forces of X,000# going down the road at XX mph are infinite. It's like having a dog on a leash. A good leash is important, but once the dog approaches a certain size, anything can happen if it takes off on you.
Choose wisely, and ask RVers. Salesman want to make the sale. Go to rec.outdoors.rv-travel and ask questions. BUT, be prepared to be flamed, and not treated nicely.
The nice thing is that they will tell you the truth. And a lot of these people drive RVs around 24/7 365 days a year. They know just a slight bit more than a salesman as to what really goes on in the real world.
Good luck. Enjoy your RV, whatever you end up with. I have personally owned and driven "hoodoo" RVs. Those that were overloaded, under weight, and in many ways unsafe. But I was stupid, and God was looking out for me. Others didn't fare as well.
Steve
Chris Cowles - 22 Mar 2006 02:38 GMT > .... And then they were offended by the answers posted. Maybe because the answers are posted in an offensive manner?
I'm not disagreeing with most of the opinions, only the tone with which they're expressed.
 Signature Chris Cowles Gainesville, FL
Gene - 22 Mar 2006 18:09 GMT >> .... And then they were offended by the answers posted. > >Maybe because the answers are posted in an offensive manner? > >I'm not disagreeing with most of the opinions, only the tone with which >they're expressed. I knew that when I'd posted my first questions, I'd get some responses better left for a playground fight...You have some who are polite, some who aren't and some who have forgotten what it was like to be a newbie :)
Lindakay - 21 Mar 2006 15:00 GMT > Interesting response but I'm not surprised. I've been to three > different RV dealers and they all assure me that I'm fine with any of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks...and I think I'll pass on the .38. > Paul If you're in Ontario, Canada, Try Sicard Holiday Campers in Smithville, ON
Here's link to their web site with a location map:
http://www.sicardrv.com/map.htm
If you're not located in Ontario - it's worth the telephone call to discuss this.
These folks here are experienced in RVs, and they don't *deal* in this to make a living and are putting your safety before their pockets.
They post opinions based on experience.
Your other alternative is to take your dealer's recommendations to talk to folks who have this arrangement for towing and get the other customer's opinions too.
Lindakay
John Andrews - 21 Mar 2006 05:22 GMT > I am realatively new to RV travel and I am in the market for a new > lightweight travel trailer to tow with my BMW X5 3.0. The SUV is rated [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks, > Paul Paul, I suggest you look at http://www.tab-rv.com/ for something you can pull safely. (Don't do the gun thing, its as unsafe as pulling a 19' trailer with the short wheelbase no-chassis BMW SUV!)
 Signature John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee
Will Sill - 21 Mar 2006 12:51 GMT I see where pgmacdonald@gmail.com contributed:
>I am realatively new to RV travel and I am in the market for a new >lightweight travel trailer to tow with my BMW X5 3.0. The SUV is rated >for 6,000 lbs. I've towed with it before and, unlike other mid-sized >SUVs I've heard of, it does quite well. PLEASE don't do it. I have no doubt your Beemer Jeep is wonderful and can tow 6,000 lbs. It can also leap tall buildings with a single bound, etc. What it CANNOT do is safely _control_ anything much bigger than a snowmobile trailer. Regardless of what RV salespeople tell you.
Safe towing is NOT about power. You can quite literally tow any known TT with a garden tractor.
Here is some free advice from the perspective of a half-century of towing experience:
====================
It is my firmly-held opinion that - on average - manufacturers' maximum tow ratings are optimistic and presume near-ideal conditions and a fair amount of operator skill. I continue to recommend that people buying equipment to tow (or be towed) try to stay well *under* the maximum. I like a 75% target, on the basis that it provides a safety/reliability/comfort cushion for steep grades, bad roads, and emergency maneuvers. In recent years as the bulk of traffic has moved over to the interstate system, I've become increasingly concerned with the number of people who sincerely believe it is OK to drag their long long tri-axle trailer (at 125% of tow rating) at 75 mph with their leetl pick-em-up.
[There is even the Hensley hitch character going about like a side show barker with his video showing an Intrepid hauling a 9,600 lb trailer! This is FIVE TIMES the tow rating, ladies & gents! The product is good but the marketing is near-fraudulent.]
Bottom line: there's a great deal more to tow ratings than power. To get some perspective on that, consider the average over-the-road truck. Typically 400 horsepower or less to haul 80,000 pounds. Do your own math.
And consider this reasoning for a 75% recomendtion:
There is pretty general agreement that it is unwise and possibly dangerous to EXCEED maximum ratings, but many of us with long trailering experience have found that tow rating information is often misleading - or at least not applicable to everyone.
1. The tow rating is ALWAYS a maximum figure, and is as large as the manufacturer dares make it. They hope you will buy their stuff for towing. Their rating may or may not be right for you. Every maker has his own methods of setting tow ratings. Some are conservative and some are ludicrously over-stated (many Jeep Cherokees were rated at 5,000 lbs, and IMO are hopelessly overloaded at that figure).
2. MOST tow ratings (nothing personal or specific vs your brand) do not allow for long steep grades - up or (especially) down.
3. Most tow ratings make no allowance for bad road conditions.
4. Most tow ratings are accompanied by asterisks that call attention to special equipment "required". Your rig may not have those features.
5. Most tow ratings make no allowance whatever for emergency maneuvers. I assure you your vehicle WILL NOT turn or stop as fast or as safely with the maximum load as it will with a lot less. The difference can be dramatic. Don't believe me? Try a few tactics in a large parking lot.
6. Vehicle tow ratings make no allowance for the DRIVER'S "tow rating". No insult intended, but if you have to ask how much your rig will tow, you have neither the experience or the knowledge to handle the maximum load safely. IMO.
7. One of the most-overlooked factors in safe towing is a COMBINED maximum (GCWR = Gross Combined Weight Rating, often only found in a towing guide) that dictates a much lighter-than-maximum TOWED load. Most of the weight of cargo & passengers in the tow vehicle must be deducted from the permissible towed load to find the true rating. Some towing guides appear to gloss over this issue because the marketing types want to put the best possible face on their product.
8. What is reasonably safe and comfortable at 45 mph may well be a lethal weapon at 75. Tow ratings, IMO, do NOT reflect any respect for this hazard.
9. An internal combustion engine loses about 2 1/2 to 3% efficiency per thousand feet. You can easily lose 15-18% in the mountains unless you have a turbocharger or supercharger.
10. Regardless of weight ratings, SUV's and "1/2'-ton" pickups are mostly useless for serious towing. They will handle pop-ups and even some of the short "lite" trailers - and will haul yer big one out to the lake if you are careful. But competent handling of a large TT requires a long wheelbase & short overhang.
Someone once wrote: "You can tow anything with anything - the question is how far, how safely?"
BOTTOM LINE: IF you trust the experienced trailerists who have been there and done that and don't want to go back, you will not exceed about 75% of the rated maximum. The number is of course not writ by the finger of God on a stone tablet - it is merely an indication that you should stay well below the manufacturer's maximum allowance if you want a safe, comfortable trip. Some say the figure ought to be as low as 50 or 60%. But except for a few macho braggarts, most experienced folks agree in principle if not detail with these concerns. For example, go to http://www.popuptimes.com/archives/75rule.asp ==================
Will Sill "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." William James
Thoran Walker - 21 Mar 2006 15:57 GMT Been there, done that.... I had a 97 Dakota regular cab with the V6/5 speed standard. towing a 23 foot Rockwood TT.
With this setup we were very limited on cargo weight. You must include the weight of all the cargo, passangers, the drive, the stuff in the holding tanks, food, chairs, outdoor rug. I am a big NASCAR fan and need to fill the potable tank before dry camping at the track. Even this added weight would change the way the unit would handle. Please add up the weight of all the gear that you will be bringing with you and leave a good 15 to 20% for everyones safety.
Towing on the highway was the worst, the trailer wash coming off the tractor trailers would send me into a panic. The trailer would start swaying, and the truck was too small (in weight and wheel base) to control this motion and would start swaying. The tail wagging the dog. and this was with the dual cam sway control system from Reese. Even having the spring bars set overly tight did not have any effect...
This combo also had issues with climbing hills. Just about every hill that I encountered the truck would bog down and I would have to shift down to 4th gear. Going through central NY (on the trip to Watkins Glen) I had to drop into 3rd just to make it up some of the hills. not that the hills were that steep, Its that the truck just did not have the power to get the job done....
I have since replaced the truck with an '04 Chevy with the Duramax/Allison, better power, more weight, longer wheel base. while the truck is overkill for the trailer, the camping experience is much more enjoyable. Looking back at towing that trailer with the Dakota (tow rating of like #8000) was stupid. I must have looked like an idiot for towing that trailer with such a small truck. I certainly felt like one.
it does not take a wise Person to learn from ones experience, but a wise one will learn from someone else's.
EktarEd - 21 Mar 2006 15:43 GMT > I am realatively new to RV travel and I am in the market for a new > lightweight travel trailer to tow with my BMW X5 3.0. The SUV is rated [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks, > Paul For what you are planning to spend on a small TT you can purchase a used small Class C in great condition and tow the Beamer behind it. I drive a Suzuki Grand Vitara which is a Small frame under SUV with not as much power as a Beamer, but I would not think of towing anything with it even if it had the power. This is the combination we use and find it totally adequate in all instances.
William Boyd - 22 Mar 2006 02:52 GMT > I am realatively new to RV travel and I am in the market for a new > lightweight travel trailer to tow with my BMW X5 3.0. The SUV is rated [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks, > Paul Well Paul I suppose you have drawn an opinion of our group here to be a slight bit hostile with inexperienced RVer. But I would like to say, they give advice the way a vast amount of experience dictates. They are not trying to sell you any thing, they are not trying to make a buck. Your vehicle that you identified as a prospective tow vehicle is not an rv tow vehicle. Yes you could pull things around town and parking lits. Because it might have the power to do so. But out on the high way things are just a little different. It takes a great deal of brawn in a vehicle to be the boss in a towing team and the BMW X5 does not have it. As have already been said, the salesmen is interested in a profit for their pocket. Desperate people will do desperate things, and along now any used car salesman and all RV salesmen are trying to make ends meet just like you. They would like to be honest but as you said it is just not in the cards. You do not need an F-250 diesel to pull what you want either, but that is at the other end of the spectrum, the BMW is not even in the spectrum.
 Signature BILL P.
2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SLT, SWB, 2WD, 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. Trojan Batteries, 600watt Inverter Dual EU2000i Hondas Just Me and Dog
tat-2 - 22 Mar 2006 05:57 GMT Have you considered purchasing a class C or A motorhome and tow your BMW. This would be much safer for you and those around you.
Ed
>I am realatively new to RV travel and I am in the market for a new > lightweight travel trailer to tow with my BMW X5 3.0. The SUV is rated [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks, > Paul Jim Hill - 30 Mar 2006 17:55 GMT > I am realatively new to RV travel and I am in the market for a new > lightweight travel trailer to tow with my BMW X5 3.0. The SUV is rated [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks, > Paul This post is a little late, but here's my experience towing an 18' Terry Resort travel trailer with a '91 S-10 4-door Blazer 4x4. I was able to tow the trailer safely, and took a trip to Alaska. Big trucks affected the trailer, but I had no trouble correcting. However driving in mountains wasn't much fun due to lack of power. I don't like to hold up other motorists and pull over to let them pass. By the time I got up to speed, I had another line of cars behind me. Should you decide to take the gamble, I would suggest the following: Weigh the trailer before making a purchase, estimate wet weigh, and allow a comfortable margin between actual weights and 6000 lbs. Install a transmission temperature gage. Get a digital gage; analog gages have poor resolution at higher temperatures where you would be concerned. If your trailer brake controller has a manual means of applying brakes, try to mount it where it is easily accessible while driving. In my experience, electric brake controllers don't work very well and you can apply extra braking on emergency stops. Also, should the trailer start swinging, you can apply trailer breaks and accelerate gently to regain control.
Good luck, Jim (If you use my email, delete a J. It won't work otherwise)
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