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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / May 2006Battery questions
For the past several months I've been running my van with no alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the battery? I've just recently started monitoring it with a tester. It started today at 12.66V, and after starting the engine twice was down to 12.50V, then after one more it was at 12.47 or something like that. How low to let it go? If I put it on charge too soon, will it "develop a memory" by burning out cells,or whatever happens when they turn to junk like that? Thanks, David > For the past several months I've been running my van with no > alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks, > David Dont you think we are very smart folks here, but do require just a little more information than the word battery. Vans can have all kinds of batteries in them. It does make a difference if it is a starting or deep cycle. Also if you have a 30 amp smart charger or just a 10 amp, should be three type. http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm Scroll down to the chart showing state of charge.  SignatureBILL P. Just Me & DOG >> For the past several months I've been running my van with no >> alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Scroll down to the chart showing state of charge. These characters just keep coming up out of the woodwork. Any vehicle I had killed the battery within a day if the alternator was defective. It's not just the starting... add lights, heater, A/C....everything draws a bit of juice. > It's not just the starting... add lights, heater, > A/C....everything draws a bit of juice. If your alternator is dead then one most likely would not be using the lights, heater or A/C. The engine itself requires very little current to run. Thats at least true on older vehicles. On modern cars I suppose computer(s) etc. could pull some juice. >>> For the past several months I've been running my van with no >>> alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >Any vehicle I had killed the battery within a day if the alternator was >defective. Then you didn't do it right, which is what I'm trying to avoid. At full charge, minus surface voltage from charging, a 12V battery will show 12.66V. At 12.50, it's 75% discharged. A starting battery should always be maintained at full charge. Chronic use below 12.60V will damage the battery, ultimately reducing it's AH capacity and lifespan through sulfation. JR > For the past several months I've been running my van with no > alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks, > David Signature-------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth >At full charge, minus surface voltage from charging, a 12V battery will >show 12.66V. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >capacity and lifespan through sulfation. >JR Thank you. Hi JR, I think you meant at 12.50 VDC, your battery was 75% charged and not discharged. Please Section 4.4.2 in the FAQ on www.batteryfaq.org. You are very correct in that chronic undercharging will cause a gradual accumulation of lead sulfate that slowly reduces the capacity of a lead-acid battery. This can be easily solved by periodically fully charging the battery. Kindest regards, BiLL..... >>At full charge, minus surface voltage from charging, a 12V battery will >>show 12.66V. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thank you. >For the past several months I've been running my van with no >alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Thanks, >David Hi, You've been running your van for several months with no alternator??? And now you are asking about how low you should let the battery go before you charge it??? Me thinks you are either a troll or don't know an alternator from a battery. Or take very short trips and charge the battery at least once a day or once a trip. If you don't have a working alternator you sure won't be driving your van with just a battery for several months. Without an alternator everything electrical in the van will use the battery. That includes ignition system, radio, lights, heater etc. Your battery would go dead pretty quickly without an alternator. Voltage is not an accurate way to tell the state of charge of a battery. Get yourself an hydrometer that will tell you the condition of your battery. You should not let a vehicles starting battery get below 80% or so of full charge. Voltage wise that's around 12.42 volts. The engine probably won't start once the voltage gets down below 11.9 volts or so. The battery at that stage is pretty much dead about 40% left. You don't need to worry about charging the battery you need to worry about getting an alternator, if that is really your problem. Take care... SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" > If you don't have a working alternator you sure won't be driving your > van with just a battery for several months. Without an alternator > everything electrical in the van will use the battery. That includes > ignition system, radio, lights, heater etc. Your battery would go dead > pretty quickly without an alternator. Define quickly. On an older vehicle that lacks a lot of electronics it can easily last weeks. Not sure about months. When I was a starving student I drove my 1964 Buick Skylark for quite a few weeks without an alternator. Couldn't drive at night as the headlights would kill the battery very quick. The engine itself generally draws very little amperage to run. >> If you don't have a working alternator you sure won't be driving your >> van with just a battery for several months. Without an alternator [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >battery very quick. The engine itself generally draws very little >amperage to run. Hi, Quickly is defined as faster then slowly. :) Of course it depends upon what other electrical items are used in the vehicle. It also depends upon how far the trips are. How easy the engine starts matters too. Quickly would be driving with lights on or heater or AC on for sure. Or sitting at long lights with the brakes on, won't help either. I went a few days one time myself before the engine wouldn't start but a month is stretching it and several months? Once you get the battery down below 12V it's iffy if it will even start the engine. But if you have no money you can often find inventive ways to get things done for sure. Carry a charger and park where you can plug it in all the time. Take care and Happy Campin... SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" > For the past several months I've been running my van with no > alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks, > David Does the battery have caps? If so get a hydrometer. Car Batteries do not last long when you frequently discharge them. Cheaper to buy an alternator. http://www.batteryfaq.org >For the past several months I've been running my van with no >alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Thanks, >David No you haven't, you've just been trolling the newsgroups. After about 1 month and three starts the battery would already be so dead it wouldn't start the van anymore. Contact Fred or Lamont Sanford and give them the exact make and model of your van so they can steal an identical alternator for you. In the meantime get one of those funky 'solar-cell' charger panels and put it in the window. Take out all the sparkplugs in the van and just motor around using the starter motor, afterall the sun will recharge your battery for free every time you kill it. > >For the past several months I've been running my van with no > >alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the starter motor, afterall the sun will recharge your battery > for free every time you kill it. There you go, instant solar vehicle!!!! > No you haven't, you've just been trolling the newsgroups. After > about 1 month and three starts the battery would already be so > dead it wouldn't start the van anymore. One month perhaps but far more than just 3 starts. I drove daily for about 3 weeks without an alternator before the battery was about dead. That was 3 to 4 starts per day. Helps to have a car start quickly! Course, that was daytime only, no headlights. . > One month perhaps but far more than just 3 starts. I drove daily for > about 3 weeks without an alternator before the battery was about dead. > That was 3 to 4 starts per day. Helps to have a car start quickly! > Course, that was daytime only, no headlights. Then you didn't drive very far. A gasoline engine uses battery current to run the ignition system. I once threw an alternator belt transferring a gas engine brokerage boat from Olympia to Seattle, and there was no spare aboard. I thought I'd see if I could make it to Lake Union. The boat died in the locks, after about a 50 mile run. :-( > . > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > there was no spare aboard. I thought I'd see if I could make it to Lake > Union. The boat died in the locks, after about a 50 mile run. :-( So maybe 2-3 hours? Lots of racing motorcycles are set up with just small battery packs and no charging systems. The good ones use NiCds which are better suited for the charge/discharge cycle. I seem to recall old fashion points/coil drawing ~1-3 amps and that at less then 50% duty cycle. I imagine a CDI ignition could get away with even less then that. I would bet in this case the alternator isn't completely dead yet though. I have had them go out to the point where the idiot light stays on but the battery stays just charged enough to spin the engine over/start if you are lucky. > . > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > there was no spare aboard. I thought I'd see if I could make it to Lake > Union. The boat died in the locks, after about a 50 mile run. :-( The secret is to have a magneto for ignition then no battery or alternator is required once started. But must keep in mind that you cannot push a boat to get it started like the old "T" models. ;-) SignatureBILL P. Just Me & DOG >. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >there was no spare aboard. I thought I'd see if I could make it to Lake >Union. The boat died in the locks, after about a 50 mile run. :-( I've run the van for hours and never had it die. My prob is that sometimes it's been too weak to turn the engine, so I keep a spare for that problem. > Then you didn't drive very far. A gasoline engine uses battery current > to run the ignition system. Most older cars use very very little current to run the ignition system. I drove about 10 miles each way to school then another 5 miles each way to work. Thats 30 miles a day. Did so for 3 weeks. No problem. Newer cars with computer(s) that run everything probably use more current. >> No you haven't, you've just been trolling the newsgroups. After >> about 1 month and three starts the battery would already be so >> dead it wouldn't start the van anymore. > >One month perhaps but far more than just 3 starts. My first battery lasted about a year, and it was old when I started. That guy apparently just wants to be an a.s, but doesn't know what he's trying to talk about. I always wonder why people lie like that though, don't you? >I drove daily for >about 3 weeks without an alternator before the battery was about dead. >That was 3 to 4 starts per day. Helps to have a car start quickly! >Course, that was daytime only, no headlights. >>For the past several months I've been running my van with no >>alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > No you haven't, Why are you lying abou that? >you've just been trolling the newsgroups. After >about 1 month and three starts the battery would already be so >dead it wouldn't start the van anymore. And why are you lying about that too? What could you hope to gain if anyone is fooled into believing your lies? >For the past several months I've been running my van with no >alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >out cells,or whatever happens when they turn to junk like >that? Simply, the best solution is to install a magneto and hand crank. Remove the radio, head lights, turn signals, A/C, and anything else that consumes electricity and you won't need that pesky battery at all... Think of it.... you could troll at any speed with no battery whatsoever.... SignatureGrady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ Homepage* http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats >> For the past several months I've been running my van with no >> alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > that consumes electricity and you won't need that pesky battery at > all... When I first read his post I assumed that he was using a charger and was asking how to know when the battery was charged. Since there has not been a further post I wonder?? >>> For the past several months I've been running my van with no >>> alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >asking how to know when the battery was charged. Since there has not >been a further post I wonder?? I was really wondering when to charge it and when not to, and waiting to see what replys came in. I'm still wodering what danger there is in over-charging, and if these batteries "develop a memory" if they get a charger hooked to them before they should, and stuff like that. > I was really wondering when to charge it and when not to, and >waiting to see what replys came in. I'm still wodering what danger >there is in over-charging, and if these batteries "develop a memory" >if they get a charger hooked to them before they should, and stuff >like that. Charge it every chance you get. That's what the car does. Just don't boil the water out. The only memory a lead acid battery has is it remembers being dead and never fully recovers from that wound. Deep cycle batteries attempt to mitigate that but it is still not a good idea to run them all the way down. I did run my boat without a charging system for a while, waiting for the dealer to get parts. With a fresh charge I was a tad over 12v, which dropped to around 11.9 pretty quick. I never let it get below 11.6 or 11.7 (when there was a noticable difference in the tilt/trim sound) I saw no ill effects but I bet it did trim some life off the back end of my battery life. Why not fix your alternator? >> I was really wondering when to charge it and when not to, and >> waiting to see what replys came in. I'm still wodering what danger [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Why not fix your alternator? Agree. A car battery should be kept fully charged as much as possible. A good charger will not overcharge. Alternators are cheaper than batteries and not as expensive as a good charger. If nothing else go to a junk (recycled automobile) yard and get an alternator. Most of them will guarantee the unit. You are stuck with the labor of replacing it if it fails. Causes of premature battery failures: http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden//carfaq12.htm >>> I was really wondering when to charge it and when not to, and >>> waiting to see what replys came in. I'm still wodering what danger [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden//carfaq12.htm What I fail to see is why on earth does every one spend the time trying to help a fool. Just repair the darned alternator or replace it. >>>> I was really wondering when to charge it and when not to, and >>>> waiting to see what replys came in. I'm still wodering what danger [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >What I fail to see is why on earth does every one spend the time trying >to help I doubt that even 25% of the replys were trying to help. So why does "every one" spend time when they don't intend to help? Like for example: you? >> I was really wondering when to charge it and when not to, and >>waiting to see what replys came in. I'm still wodering what danger [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >I saw no ill effects but I bet it did trim some life off the back end >of my battery life. Thanks. So now what to think? Only you and JR North realy said anything about what I was asking, and you two have different ideas. He acted like 12.5V is 75% discharged, while you said you were running with no prob at below 12V. Hmmm.... >Why not fix your alternator? I'm getting there. But I might as well get the experience with this while I'm at it. I'm hoping to apply what I learn from the no alternator situation to future inverter systems, and my current one as well. Justifiable procrastination...sort of. Every time I've lost an alternator belt, it has been at night. All the lights being on, the batter would soon fail. Having another source of power, the generator, is incredibly convenient in such a pickle. Install a generator capable of powering your vehicle. I don't believe it need be large. Perhaps one of the smaller Hondas would be perfect. You can use it in other situations when you aren't driving. Problem solved. Steve Interesting post, David. My sister-in-law is a 7th grade elementry teacher, and she actually had a student come up to her and ask how long he could goof off through the year and still pass... Cripes! Get the Alternator replaced and/or fixed! > For the past several months I've been running my van with no > alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks, > David > Interesting post, David. My sister-in-law is a 7th grade elementry >teacher, and she actually had a student come up to her and ask how long >he could goof off through the year and still pass... He was working on a plan... >Cripes! Get the Alternator replaced and/or fixed! I'm working on a plan... >> For the past several months I've been running my van with no >> alternator. How low should I let it get before charging the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> Thanks, >> David |
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