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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / May 2006Water pump issue (newbie here)
Just bought a '87 Fleetwood Prowler, 25', good shape. Previous owners left it at a lake throughout the summer that they owned it, didn't move it except to carry it home in the winter and back to the lake in spring. They used campground water source instead of the holding tank and pump. I need the self contained functionas I take it out in the wilderness. I filled it up, no leaks. Turned on the pump, it runs and seems to produce exceptional pressure and flow. Again, no leaks. But the pump doesn't want to shut off. I've gotten it up to what it must consider adequate pressure to the point where it will shut off about a dozen times so far. I've even sat there for up to an hour after it reaches pressure and it's just fine, no cycling indicating a leak off of pressure. But if I turn on a faucet and the pump comes on to compensate, it seldom seems it's going to quit....I just let it go awhile and then reach up and flip the switch. I've taken the pressure sensor head/switch off the pump, everything seems to be clean and functional...the fact that it shuts off once in awhile means the switch isn't shorted. Is it possible to replace the spring with a lighter one? Am I supposed to scrounge one of the right height and diameter or is this something everyobdy has to do? Absolutely no leaks I can find, I've bled the air out of the water lines, seems to act a little better after that. Is there air trapped somewhere else? Wow, got long winded, didn't I? >Just bought a '87 Fleetwood Prowler, 25', good shape. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Wow, got long winded, didn't I? Have you opened the safety valve on the water heater and let the air out?  SignatureFrank Tabor >>Just bought a '87 Fleetwood Prowler, 25', good shape. >>Wow, got long winded, didn't I? >Have you opened the safety valve on the water heater and let the air >out? Hmmmmm, no....can't get it all out by running the hot water faucet, can I? > can't get [air in the water lines] all out by running > the hot water faucet, can I? Yes, you can. This is what I do every spring. In my case, it takes a LOT of water (several tanks) to get all the air out. If you've run a lot of water through the lines already, I suspect you have a defective pump. If it is the original pump, I'll be surprised. Regardless, you would do well to replace the pump. They aren't THAT expensive, ignoring the likelihood that you bought a 19-year-old trailer because it was cheap. Here's one for fifty bucks: http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=14929&src=SRQB Good luck! Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > In article <ba8s525i6mnk9t32od376e7aqdcj4dp9n7@4ax.com>, > beblount@otelco.net [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > (several > tanks) to get all the air out. You're not so much removing the air from water heater, rather you are establishing the air pocket in it. The easy and sure way to do is to open the relief valve while it fills the first time after it is drained. When water comes out of that valve, let it snap shut. Done deal. That being said, I don't bother doing that most of the time. I simply let it fill, then open the hat water tap at the sink. When it stops spitting air the water heater is ready to go! SignatureJon JPinOH >>Just bought a '87 Fleetwood Prowler, 25', good shape. >>Absolutely no leaks I can find, I've bled the air out of the water >>lines, seems to act a little better after that. Is there air trapped >>somewhere else? >> >>Wow, got long winded, didn't I? >Have you opened the safety valve on the water heater and let the air >out? Went out there and couldn't get anysignificant amount of air out of the water heater, but I still can find a little air whenever I open a faucet, hot or cold...It seems to be getting better each time, but good heavens, how much air can there be in there? >>>Just bought a '87 Fleetwood Prowler, 25', good shape. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >faucet, hot or cold...It seems to be getting better each time, but >good heavens, how much air can there be in there? If you are getting air in, but can't find any leaks, check the tubing between the tank and the pump, the connections, etc. You may be sucking air in. Changing the spring on the pressure switch is an iffy thing. I haven't heard of anyone doing it. SignatureFrank Tabor > Went out there and couldn't get anysignificant amount of air out of > the water heater, but I still can find a little air whenever I open > a > faucet, hot or cold...It seems to be getting better each time, but > good heavens, how much air can there be in there? Let every hot and cold faucet plus toilet fill run until no air is in the water. Your shutoff problem should be solved. RV pumps don't like air in the water line. Tom J >beblount@otelco.net wrote: >Just bought a '87 Fleetwood Prowler, 25', good shape. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >But the pump doesn't want to shut off. If it turns out to be a bad pump, I would replace it with a SHURflo 5.7 Extreme pump. It will cost you around $200, but it is silent, does not pulse at any flow rate, and has great pressure when you need it. It's the best $200 I ever spent on an RV accessory. SignatureDD > If it turns out to be a bad pump, I would replace it with a SHURflo > 5.7 Extreme pump. It will cost you around $200, but it is silent, > does not pulse at any flow rate, and has great pressure when you > need > it. Also one of the fastest ways to empty a fresh water tank when dry camping. :-( Tom J >"Tom J" <tomnews@earthlink.net> wrote: >> If it turns out to be a bad pump, I would replace it with a SHURflo >> 5.7 Extreme pump. It will cost you around $200, but it is silent, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >:-( >Tom J That's why faucets have variable settings. <g> Seriously, before I replaced the OEM water pump, we were able to dry camp for six days before running out of fresh water, and now we can go six days before running out of water. I have a valve on the shower head that lets us control the flow there, and that's the only place that we run the water for more than a few seconds at a time when dry camping. The fact that the variable speed pump allows you to run a faucet at a low flow rate without pulsing makes it easier to use a faucet at less than wide open throttle. SignatureDD > Seriously, before I replaced the OEM water pump, we were able to dry > camp for six days before running out of fresh water, and now we can go > six days before running out of water. > DD Six days !! I would have to have a 360 gallon fresh water tank for that. Max >"Max" <thesameoldme@sbcglobal.netnot> wrote: >> Seriously, before I replaced the OEM water pump, we were able to dry >> camp for six days before running out of fresh water, and now we can go [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Max When we have hookups, we go through about 30 gallons/day. When dry camping, we use about half that. We have never tried to make it stretch any more than that, mostly because it would be too much trouble. I would rather go dump and fill every six days than take more drastic conservation steps. SignatureDD > > If it turns out to be a bad pump, I would replace it with a SHURflo > > 5.7 Extreme pump. It will cost you around $200, but it is silent, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > :-( > Tom J I strongly disagree! The Extreme will support a VERY small flow rate without stopping and starting, thus SAVING water over our old "start stop" pump. We can run water at a trickle when that is the best way to do a job....like hand washing. Before we would just set it until it would not stop flowing, and waste lots when the pump ran. We are almost always dry camping and our 65 gallon tank will last 8 days if necessary... My opinion, Barrie B >> Also one of the fastest ways to empty a fresh water tank when dry >> camping. >> Tom J >I strongly disagree! The Extreme will support a VERY small flow rate >without stopping and starting, thus SAVING water over our old "start >stop" pump. We can run water at a trickle when that is the best way to >do a job....like hand washing. Before we would just set it until it >would not stop flowing, and waste lots when the pump ran. ??? When I want to wash my hands, I turn the faucet on very slightly to get as much of a trickle as I want, while the pump cycles on and off as needed to provide it. (I don't notice any pulsing or change in the flow when it cycles.) Nothing at all wrong with having a fancier pump, but why is my way a problem? Are you saying you used to open your faucet all the way when you just wanted a trickle? Or did I misread something? GB in NC > >> Also one of the fastest ways to empty a fresh water tank when dry > >> camping. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > GB in NC With the old "start-stop" pump, the water pressure would vary so much that with a tiny trickle just before the pump starts, the water would gush strongly by the time the pump stopped; If the faucet was closed to a trickle at the time the pump stopped, the flow would almost stop completely as the pressure decreased. The Extreme pump maintains constant pressure at low flow rates by slowing the pump down, but keeping it running. I do not think it leads to wasted water, but SAVES water, as I can keep the trickle I want all through my hand washing....and other low flow uses. Perhaps you already have a variable speed pump, or perhaps an accumulator? My start-stop pump varied its output pressure a LOT....unsatisfactorily so. Hopefully I am now clear... Barrie B >With the old "start-stop" pump, the water pressure would vary so much >that with a tiny trickle just before the pump starts, the water would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ... >Hopefully I am now clear... You are indeed clear now. Thanks. >Perhaps you already have a variable speed pump, or perhaps an >accumulator? Nope. My Class B has neither. > My start-stop pump varied its output pressure a LOT....unsatisfactorily so. Okay, this aroused my curiosity enough to get me up off the sofa and send me downstairs (24 stairsteps <g>) to the garage to check mine out. I never paid it that much attention before and wanted to make sure I knew what I was talking about. I turned on the faucet to the slowest trickle that could be useful for handwashing and let it run a little over a half gallon. The pump cycled evenly from start to finish, about two seconds on and two seconds off. Any variations in the volume or pressure of the trickle were small enough to have been irrelevant if detectable at all. I'm curious if your experience would be considered typical. If so, that would explain people's interest in upgrading their pumps. Heck, I'd want to, too. I'm always looking for some new toy that I can somehow justify for my van, but I've never really even considered that one. Now I know why. I really don't need it <g>. GB in NC >GBinNC <GBinNC@yahoooo.com> wrote: >>With the old "start-stop" pump, the water pressure would vary so much >>that with a tiny trickle just before the pump starts, the water would [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >GB in NC We have owned one trailer, one fiver, and two Class A motor homes over the years, and the large variation in water flow at low volume settings as the pump cycled on and off was typical of each. It was impossible to get a "trickle" at a steady, useable flow in any of them. I installed the variable speed pump in our current rig, and ours now provides a steady flow at any setting. Maybe there is something different about the plumbing in Class B motor homes? The main reason I replaced the pump, though, was noise. When we had our first travel trailer, my wife was reluctant to run the water in it at night because she was just sure that it would wake up the entire campground.<g> With the SHURflo Extreme pump, installed with a couple feet of flexible hose on each end, she can't hear the pump unless she opens the basement door and sticks her head in there. SignatureDD >>GBinNC <GBinNC@yahoooo.com> wrote: >We have owned one trailer, one fiver, and two Class A motor homes over >the years, and the large variation in water flow at low volume settings [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >feet of flexible hose on each end, she can't hear the pump unless she >opens the basement door and sticks her head in there. While the Shurflo Extreme is an improvement over their previous models, it is still noisier and less efficient than the Aquatec pump. Aquatec was the one that initiated the variable speed pump. I had installed the Aquatec pump in our converted coach (after having a Shurflo pump that failed.) and was amazed by the flow, pressure and quietness. That was several years ago now. Today we have a new coach with he Shurflo Extreme and again I am amazed by the noise, and pulsing. I will be replacing it with the Aquatec at the first opportunity. Shurflo still has a long way to go to meet the Aquatec Quality. George >wwemu@cwnet.com wrote: >>>GBinNC <GBinNC@yahoooo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >George I have heard that the Aquatec is a superior pump, but I wonder why you have any pulsing at all with the SHURflo in your new coach. I thought the nature of a variable speed pump was that it ran at the speed required by the demand, rather than cycling off and on. You don't have an accumulator, do you? A quick Google suggests that the Aquatec pump is a little less expensive than the SHURflo. Next time, I'll consider one. SignatureDD >>wwemu@cwnet.com wrote: >>I had installed the Aquatec pump in our converted coach (after having >>a Shurflo pump that failed.) and was amazed by the flow, pressure and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >A quick Google suggests that the Aquatec pump is a little less expensive >than the SHURflo. Next time, I'll consider one. I'm surprised that the Aquatec is less expensive. I think they have two models now. The original had a higher pressure/flow and needed more power. I had heard that they had come out with one that was a bit less demanding for a direct replacement. As for the accumulator? I don't know. Still getting to know the new coach. In the old converted coach, I did have an accumulator. When the pump came on, it just hummed a bit. You seldom noticed it. The Shurflo on the new coach sounds much like the old pumps - it burps and you definitely know when it is on. George >wwemu@cwnet.com wrote: >>>wwemu@cwnet.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >George The Aquajet RV (that's the big one): $149.95 at http://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/Pumps.htm or $154.40 at http://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/index/p1234/1234/None/None The SHURflo Extreme 5.7: $193.50 at Camping World: http://reserveamerica.campingworld.com/browse/products/index.cfm?prodID=3930 or $239.00 at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AXZOP/104-7468161-7279141?v=glance&n=3375251 or $222.65 here: http://store.solar-electric.com/5904-0201.html or, where I bought mine, $174.96 at: http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-pumps-water/rv-water-pump.htm The reason I asked about the accumulator is that the SHURflo Extreme 5.7 is not aupposed to be used with one. It will cause the pump to run excessively. SignatureDave, pumping silently >Maybe there is something different about the >plumbing in Class B motor homes? Nope. Basic, standard stuff, as far as I can tell -- sorta like a very small TT plus an engine and drive train. GB in NC snipped > I'm curious if your experience would be considered typical. If so, that > would explain people's interest in upgrading their pumps. Heck, I'd want [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > GB in NC That's the way ours works also. Brushing toothes <g> when we're on the road and not hooked up to services, we have the option of turning on the faucet so water runs with gusto or, just turning on a small stream. The small stream results in the same behavior from the pump you describe. Hugh (hughd at intergate dot com) >> >> Also one of the fastest ways to empty a fresh water tank when dry >> >> camping. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > a trickle at the time the pump stopped, the flow would almost stop > completely as the pressure decreased. I haven't noticed that problem in my Class B either. I speculating, but perhaps it's because I let the pump pressurize the pipes before I open the tap. Then again, it has never been an issue to begin with. SignatureJon JPinOH > I strongly disagree! The Extreme will support a VERY small flow rate > without stopping and starting, thus SAVING water over our old "start [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > My opinion, > Barrie B Ok, who else on the NG doesn't take showers? Max > > I strongly disagree! The Extreme will support a VERY small flow rate > > without stopping and starting, thus SAVING water over our old "start [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Max I can shower easily on 3 gallons of water.....navy style. Wet down, soap up, rinse off. I replaced the water hogging house style shower head with a sink sprayer. Works great. FWIW, Barrie B >> I strongly disagree! The Extreme will support a VERY small flow >> rate [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Ok, who else on the NG doesn't take showers? If you are going to be dry camping, you have to learn how to take a wash cloth bath every other day and a Navy style shower every other day. I was 19 years old before we even had a shower and it was wash cloth all the time!! You also have to learn to shave without the water running all the time, brush teeth without water running constantly and do dishes without constant running water. For your information, very few campers make good dry campers because they have no idea how to conserve on anything. Tom J >>I strongly disagree! The Extreme will support a VERY small flow rate >>without stopping and starting, thus SAVING water over our old "start [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Max We take showers. Both of us can last on 90 gallons for a week. That includes cooking, pooping and peeing and showers. We use body bath wipes on alternative days so we only take full showers every other day and those are wet, soap, rinse with the water shut off in between each step. It's not very difficult. Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com > Ok, who else on the NG doesn't take showers? That depends. When I'm hauling the water (no hookups), I take fewer showers and more "bird baths". Cleanliness is next to Godliness but nowhere near camping. Signature:) JR >> I strongly disagree! The Extreme will support a VERY small flow rate >> without stopping and starting, thus SAVING water over our old "start [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ok, who else on the NG doesn't take showers? Aww... go jump in a lake. <g> SignatureJon JPinOH >>> I strongly disagree! The Extreme will support a VERY small flow rate >>> without stopping and starting, thus SAVING water over our old "start [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Aww... go jump in a lake. <g> Better 'n nuthin. Max > Just bought a '87 Fleetwood Prowler, 25', good shape. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > But the pump doesn't want to shut off. My first hunch is that you have a leak that you haven't found yet, although it would be more like a gusher if the pump never stops running. Check the fittings between the pump and the water tank, might be loose there and sucking air. Is there a bypass installed for winterizing? You should be able to get a kit to either replace or rebuild the head of the water pump. SignatureJon JPinOH > Just bought a '87 Fleetwood Prowler, 25', good shape. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Wow, got long winded, didn't I? There is a possibility that the pump housing is cracked. During winterization many people drain all the water from the lines, but you cannot normally drain the water in the pump housing. That is the reason to use the pump to draw in the pink stuff (antifreeze) leaving the pump protected from freezing. Water remaining in the pump housing could freeze and crack it. It could be sucking air, causing it to run longer to build up shut off pressure. There is a check valve that prevents the city water from entering the pump. So you would not necessarily have a leak at the crack in the pump when on city water. SignatureBILL P. 2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SLT, SWB, 2WD,Short Bed 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K,Slider. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. two 6volt AGM Trojan Batteries, 600watt Inverter Dual EU2000i Hondas Just Me and Dog In an effort to bring this thread to a reasonable close, let me follow up. I VERY much appreciate ALL comments and suggestions. The idea of air in the lines led to the solution, a combination of venting a big bubble out of the water heater and running the various faucets until all air was "burbed" out. (I figured three guys for three days at Talledega would have made the latter happen, but I was still getting a few air bubbles)(and yes, we did shower......)........ I pumped it up, the pump shut off, rather than risk coming back to find the pump running/melted down, I shut if off, leaving the system pressurized ovenight....went away and came back the next day, flipped the switch, pump never made a sound, same thing 24 hours later, indicating to me that the system was still pressurized (NO leaks) Then left it for four days undisturbed, came back, same thing. Went in and flushed the toilet, pump came on, and shut off in a few seconds.......Guess it must be working, huh? Thanks again everyone....See ya on the road somewhere. >Just bought a '87 Fleetwood Prowler, 25', good shape. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Wow, got long winded, didn't I? Went to see Robin WIlliams' new film "R V", it's ROFL funny. > Went to see Robin WIlliams' new film "R V", it's ROFL funny. We saw it Saturday night. Did anyone else notice that the front side of the slideout had been removed? Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com Oh yeah, th e magic of Hollywood. Not as good as the geyser though. >> Went to see Robin WIlliams' new film "R V", it's ROFL funny. > We saw it Saturday night. Did anyone else notice that the front side of > the slideout had been removed? |
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