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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / May 2006

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Eternabond for Travel Trailer Roof Leak...Help Please

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Tbone - 11 May 2006 04:25 GMT
Hello everyone, I could use some expertise please.

I recently bought a 2002 Wildwood 19' TT and started having a leak. I
have found the problem area, and went up on the roof and removed the
aluminum strip that screws down the aluminum and also covers the Rubber
Roof. It looks bad in the pics, but that is because I have remove the
strip all the way across, and scraped off all the putty and dicor that
was on there. now I want to seal it up goog.
I have bought some eternabond to use for sealing the roof.

I can see how to tape and seal the rubber rood to the aluminum roof
with the 4" tape I bought, but my main question is where it comes
over to the side rail near the gutter. You can see in the picture that
the tape will need to run from the gutter rail on one side over to the
gutter rail on the other side. The picture helps this make more sense.

Should I remove these gutter rail to apply the eternabond behind them?
This would be a difficult undertaking on the awning side, as the
support arms are anchored to the gutter. What has everyone else been
doing with theirs when they eternabond it, and do you have any pics by
chance?

I really want to get this sealed 100% and also want it to look good.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ctfortner/detail?.dir=6d30re2&.dnm=f26bre2.jpg&.src=ph

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ctfortner/detail?.dir=6d30re2&.dnm=32f2re2.jpg&.src=ph

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ctfortner/detail?.dir=6d30re2&.dnm=2340re2.jpg&.src=ph

Thanks for any tips.

Todd
RichA - 11 May 2006 07:55 GMT
>Hello everyone, I could use some expertise please.
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
>Todd
Hi,
Eternabond will seal over the gutter rail.  How it might look, is
another question.  Making things look good usually require more work
then just fixing them :)  You might want to stop the Eternabond at the
edge of the gutter rail then use Dicor sealant along the edge of the
Eternabond and the rail.

Make sure that there is no silicone where you are going to apply the
Eternabond.  That's about the only stuff it won't stick to.  Also, make
sure that both the aluminum and roof material is clean where the
Eternabond is going to go, especially no grease.  I used alcohol and
another solvent whose name escapes me when I apply it.  Just be careful
what you use on the rubber roof!

One other thing.  Once you get the Eternabond applied it's going to
stay applied.  Once it starts sticking you cannot move it or change it's
position.  It's really good stuff but it's not easy to remove once it's
applied, and you have to go slow and plan how you are going to lay it on
or it will come out looking like crap.

Hope this helps some.

Take care and Happy Campin...

Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Tbone - 11 May 2006 13:49 GMT
Great RichA, thanks for the tips.  I think I am going to avoid removing
the rails, not because of the work, but just more afraid of creating
more problems.  I plan to install like you mentioned above, stop the
Eternabond at the edge of the gutter rail then use Dicor sealant along
the edge of the Eternabond and the rail.

Hopefully it will turn out ok, I would sure like to see some pics of
someone who has done this, to give me a better idea of what they did.
b b - 11 May 2006 14:47 GMT
> Great RichA, thanks for the tips.  I think I am going to avoid removing
> the rails, not because of the work, but just more afraid of creating
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Hopefully it will turn out ok, I would sure like to see some pics of
> someone who has done this, to give me a better idea of what they did.

I did not use eternabond for seam sealing, but instead used "liquid
roof", a 2 part EDPM rubber brushable material.  I liked the liquid
roof, it is in its third year now with no problems, and I found it went
on easily and solved the problem.

It does remain sticky for several days, and the weather must be OK for
that time.  Also, if trees or other airborne debris touches it during
that time it will stick (I just left some leaves on it 'til it cured,
then broke them off).

Google on Liquid Roof or check out
http://www.liquidroof.com/liquidroof.html
A one gallon kit that covers 46 square ft goes for $82 delivered.  The
kit has a stirrer that is quite helpful in getting it mixed.  Do put
half the mixed material in the freezer or fridge just after mixing to
extend the three hour working time.  Mine got a bit thick near the end
of the job.

If you want pics, verify your email address is good and I'll take some.  
Mine is not.

HTH,
Barrie B
Tom  J - 11 May 2006 15:28 GMT
> Hello everyone, I could use some expertise please.
>
> I recently bought a 2002 Wildwood 19' TT and started having a leak.

From looking at the pictures, it appears that the leak has been there
a long time and you have rot underneath the roofing. If that's the
case, you will not get a good repair until you remove all the decay
underneath and repair that area 1st. RVs need to be checked for
openings in the seams at least 2 times a year, because once you get
internal damage as it looks like you have, it's expensive to repair &
beyond the skills of most owners.

Tom J
Tbone - 11 May 2006 20:31 GMT
Thanks for the offer for the pics Barrie B.  I have already ordered the
Eternabond, so I plan to use that.

But i am curious about your post Tom.  I dont know if the wood is
rotted, but it definitely has been getting wet for a while.  I am
pretty sure that is why this camper was traded in.  Whoever had it
before us had siliconed all up there trying to tix the problem, and it
didnt.  if you think it is rotten, what will happen from here? If I let
it dry out, will it be ok, or will it fall apart over time?

I am very frustrated because we just bought this camper 2 months ago
and it is our first one, and we were so proud of it.  This entire
camper is MINT inside and out, except this problem area.  It looks
brand new, everyone thinks it is when they see it.  i have been letting
it air out for a couple of days, and am going to for 2 more days before
i eternabond it.
Frank Tabor - 11 May 2006 21:15 GMT
>Thanks for the offer for the pics Barrie B.  I have already ordered the
>Eternabond, so I plan to use that.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>it air out for a couple of days, and am going to for 2 more days before
>i eternabond it.

If you have been airing it out, then you have a mildew problem, which
means there is more moisture in the wood than you think there is.  Is
the Roof soft where the leak is?
Signature

Frank Tabor

Tom  J - 11 May 2006 21:33 GMT
> Thanks for the offer for the pics Barrie B.  I have already ordered
> the Eternabond, so I plan to use that.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> didnt.  if you think it is rotten, what will happen from here? If I
> let it dry out, will it be ok, or will it fall apart over time?

The rot has already started and won't hold things in place and you'll
continue to have problems unless it's repaired underneath the roof
topping. Many 1st time buyers make the same mistake you made by not
knowing to check for water damage. Sorry you had to be one of them.

Tom J
Tbone - 11 May 2006 22:06 GMT
Frank, the wood is a little soft in that one area, which is only about
1' by 1' area.  i have let others see it and noone thought it was
rotten yet, but it could be i guess.  we are no experts.  you cant push
a whole through it or anything, but it seems to be a little soft there
RichA - 12 May 2006 03:25 GMT
>Frank, the wood is a little soft in that one area, which is only about
>1' by 1' area.  i have let others see it and noone thought it was
>rotten yet, but it could be i guess.  we are no experts.  you cant push
>a whole through it or anything, but it seems to be a little soft there
Hi,
If you don't have any soft mushy wood on the outside anywhere along the
seam where the leak was then check the inside around where the leak was.
Look for discoloration on the ceiling or wall and for mildew or moldy
smell and soft mushy wood or paneling.  If you find any problems inside
especially soft wood then you may want to see if you can get behind the
paneling and see what is going on there.

It sounds like it wasn't a bad leak and the trailer is fairly new which
helps, so maybe there isn't any serious damage.  How much damage depends
upon how often it got wet and if it ever had a chance to dry out. If it
got wet enough for the water to do damage to the inside then it could
have also done damage to the wall studs and beams behind the wall
paneling.  Taking the paneling out of a newer trailer can be a serious
job because many now have the walls vacuum bonded.  Yours may or may not
be constructed that way. Plus matching the wall paneling color can be a
pain.

 For the soft spot on the wood of the roof, make sure you dry it well
then you can get some PollyAll wood repair liquid and apply it, or
something similar.  It will soak into wood and fill any voids in the
soft area.  Then use your Eternabond to seal the whole thing back up.

Take care and Happy Campin...

Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Tbone - 12 May 2006 04:15 GMT
Rich,

I will see if I can locate some of the PollyAll tomorrow.  It looks
like it would be a major chose to get into the paneling and all that, I
dont want to tackle that one.  No smell of mold, mildew or anything,
and dont have any internal damaage that we have seen.  it looks brand
new in there.  We just happened to see a couple of beads of water on
the ceiling one day after a rain, it wasnt pouring in by any means.
but i do think it has been going on for a while, based on seeing the
wood, and also the attempts at fixing it.

Couple of more things.  What could be used to glue down the rubber roof
to the plywood again?  In this area, i can raise the roof from the
wood, shouldnt it be stuck back down.

Also,

My plan is to use the 4" tape going crosswise.  If you look at this pic
again,

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ctfortner/detail?.dir=6d30re2&.dnm=8a92re2.jpg&.src=ph

you see where the screw is right?  Well i wanted to do the 4" strip
from gutter rail to gutter rail, but that piece/strip there presents
another problem.  Should i remove the 2-3 screws and bend it up out of
the way to lay the tape under it, or should i get fancy with the
scissors and for it around that one spot?

Isnt that rubber roof supposed to be long enough to tuck under the
aluminum frame?  I dont know, it just seems like it should be to me.
it is in the center, but it is not on either of the ends as you can see
in the pics.

> >Frank, the wood is a little soft in that one area, which is only about
> >1' by 1' area.  i have let others see it and noone thought it was
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
>  Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA - 12 May 2006 05:52 GMT
>Rich,
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>it is in the center, but it is not on either of the ends as you can see
>in the pics.

<snipped>
Hi,
Go to your local hardware store and tell them you want to seal some
slightly dry rotted wood.  They should have something there that would
work if they don't have the PolyAll.  If it's not bad just using some
clear polyurethane and letting it soak in and dry should do it.

What is used to glue down the roof is a WATER based adhesive.  Dicor of
course sells it but you may be able to find a water based adhesive at
your local hardware store or Lowe's or Home Depot or your local RV
dealer.  Just make sure it's water based and not petroleum or solvent
based.  Around a joint or seam it is probably a good idea to get the
roofing glued back down if you can.  That would help keep any water that
might find it's way in from running under the rubber roof.  It will make
putting down the Eternabond easier too if the roofing can't move.

What the picture looks like to me is the back part of the RV and you
have removed the seam moulding where the rubber roof and aluminum come
together.  Usually the rubber roof comes at least right up to the
aluminum, but sometimes they don't cut it right and there is a space.
As long as the seam moulding covers both the aluminum and rubber roof it
should be ok.  Some sealant is laid down on the joint  and the seam
moulding  is put over the joint and screwed down.  The screws and edges
of the seam are then usually sealed with self leveling sealant.

There are two ways of doing it.  Put the seam moulding back down across
the joint using sealant then seal the screws and along the edges with
self leveling sealant then put the Eternabond over it.  Or put the
Eternabond down first over the joint then put the seam moulding back
down and seal the screws with self leveling sealant.

If it were mine and I wanted to get it back to as close to original as
possible but wanted to make sure that joint never leaked I would put the
Eternabond down first.  Cut the Eternabond to fit around the seam with
the screw you are talking about.  Make sure it goes over the edges and
covers the plywood down to the awning rail.  Then put the seam moulding
back the way it was over the Eternabond screw it down and seal the screw
heads on the seam moulding and even along the edges if you want.  Seal
around that screw and edge moulding you are talking about with self
leveling sealant and where the Eternabond goes over the edges to the
awning rail.

As long as you are up there you might want to think about doing a close
inspection of all the seams and if you find any loose or hard sealant
replacing it.  I check all the seams once in the spring and again in the
fall.  It doesn't take much to cause big problems.  I don't know if you
know this or not but if you keep your rubber roof clean it will cut down
on the black streaks down the sides.  If you keep the RV waxed it will
make getting rid of the black streaks even easier.

Hope this helps.  Take care and Happy Campin...


Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Tbone - 12 May 2006 15:59 GMT
thanks for the detailed info.  I am heading out to Home Depot here in a
few and see what they have.  This is actually the front seam i am
working with.  the back looks good, although I will probably seal it
with eternabond while I have so much of it.  I think I will put the
eternabond down first connecting the rubber roof with the aluminum and
then screw the strip back down and seal those over with Dicor.

I did not know about the keeping the roof clean, but i plan on bathing
this beauty this weekend also and cleaning the roof.  Had to get these
leaks fixed first though.

I have posted a few more pics in there, of the whole camper.  In case
you want to see the camper you are helping me repair :)

As far as the rest of the seams, they will all be replaced with
Eternabond, I am pretty sure.  I plan to do the front this weekend to
get rid of the leaks, and then do the rest as I have time, since they
arent leaking (YET)
Tbone - 12 May 2006 19:31 GMT
Hey, well i got some stuff called Minwax High Performance Wood Hardener
from Home Depot.  Says it is fast drying in 2-4 hours.  Typically i
know you would put this on with a paint brush, but how do you reccomend
I put it on under the roof?  I didnt think about that.  I can reach
under it a little bit with a brush, but not the whole area.  Not sure
how good i can get it on there.

Also, is there any reason to believe this could harm the rubber roof?

I also looked around for a water based adhesive, but didnt really see
anything that stated it was water based.  Do you know of something off
top of your head the home depot may have i can look for?

Last thing, I swear.  What do you reccomend for cleaning the roof with
to get it ready for eternabond?  I have seen a lot of different
opinions on this.
RichA - 12 May 2006 21:15 GMT
>Hey, well i got some stuff called Minwax High Performance Wood Hardener
>from Home Depot.  Says it is fast drying in 2-4 hours.  Typically i
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>to get it ready for eternabond?  I have seen a lot of different
>opinions on this.
Hi,
Before you put the wood hardener on the roof read the contents, if it
contains any petroleum based product do not use it.  I would recommend
that you get a small piece of the rubber roof and put some on it to see
what happens.  It would probably be ok once it dries but I don't know
about what would happen if it gets on the rubber while you are putting
it on the wood.  I thought it was just a small area that was soft?  You
don't need to put it anywhere else just where the soft spot is.

If you have a roofing supply place nearby they should have something
that would work with EPDM roofs you can give them a call and see what
they have. .3M makes an a water based adhesive called Fastbond for use
with laminates that should work, they also make a solvent based adhesive
with the same name so you have to make sure you get the right stuff.
They also make a water based contact cement that would work. I think
Liquid Nails also makes a water base cement or glue you can get in
caulking tubes. There is also the Dicor stuff called Dicor 901 I
believe, a RV place might have that, but it is expensive, for the small
area you have to do.   Whatever you buy read the ingredients on the
label to make sure it has no solvents or petroleum products in it.

I would use a mild detergent and a brush to clean it then rinse let dry
and you should be good to go.

Take care and Happy Campin...
Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Tbone - 13 May 2006 03:33 GMT
Ok, yeah it is a small area where i think there is a soft spot.  I was
thinking i needed to try and apply it to the whole area exposed, which
would be a task without peeling back some of the rubber roof.  I will
check it out good tomorrow and see how it goes as you mentioned.

We have a couple of places out here that may have the stuff you
mentioned below to glue it back down, thanks for the info.

Well i feel handheld enough now, I am just going to do it now.  I will
let you know how it goes and try to get some pics when i get done.

> Hi,
>  Before you put the wood hardener on the roof read the contents, if it
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA - 13 May 2006 04:33 GMT
>Ok, yeah it is a small area where i think there is a soft spot.  I was
>thinking i needed to try and apply it to the whole area exposed, which
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Well i feel handheld enough now, I am just going to do it now.  I will
>let you know how it goes and try to get some pics when i get done.

Hi,
Good, hope it all goes well.  You should never have another leak in
that area for sure, with the Eternabond.  At least hope you don't cause
that stuff can be a bear to remove :)  I'm sure it will turn out fine.

Take care and Happy Campin...
Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Tbone - 14 May 2006 16:08 GMT
Well, the job is done finally.  It wasnt bad at all really.  Took about
2 hours of prep time, cleaning and such.  Then it took about 10 minutes
to put the tape down.  It went down really easy actually.  I had my
father come over and help me, but it could have been down alone.  The
only real problem I had at all was re-installing the aluminum strip
back down, because you couldnt see the original holes anymore.  So on a
couple of the screws they didnt get a major part of the wood, and
therefore arent extrememly tight, so i went right beside if and drilled
a tiny hole through the strip and into the wood and screwed it down
tight.  Then just for double protection, I went ahead and used the
Dicor over all the screw holes and around a few other areas.  It looks
good though.  From the ground, you cant tell anything was ever done,
and it should definitley be sealed up now.  If if had it to do over
again, i would just leave the aluminum strip off.  All it really is, is
a threshold for connecting the aluminum frame to the rubber roof, but
the rubber is a little short is a couple of spots and they dont connect
anyway.  So it really doesnt serve any purpose that i see, and i really
hated having to screw through the tape.  I know they say it sill still
be sealed up around the screw, but no screw holes to me is better.

The eternabond is some great stuff.  Anyone thinking about it, dont
hesitate.  I found it to be very easy to work with, but dont stick it
until it is where you want it, does NOT come back up.  i just peeled
off about 6 inches of back at a time and laid it down.  I also found it
easy to cut with a good pair of scissors.  It cut as easy as paper.

So I guess I just have to wait until it rains and see what happens.  If
it still leaks, I cant imagine it will be from this area.
Thanks for all the suggestions.  I will be doing the rest of the seams
soon, since I have about 40 foot of it left.

Todd
 
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