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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / June 2006

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Installing Inverter - Should I Invest in 3 Stage Charger

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Rona - 31 May 2006 01:13 GMT
I have a new 2006 Hurricane 33H with 2 12v house batteries. I will be
having Camper World install a house-wide inverter (with auto-switch
to shore power). The Xantrex Pro 1800 Inverter looks like a great deal
at $350 plus install (has built in switch and remote on/off).

The Inverters with built-in 3 stage chargers start at about $999.
The question is ... is it "worth" it to replace the (new) built-in charger
with a three stage charger? Will I get more output from my batteries
(e.g. 5% more amp hours ... 10%, etc). Or will they just need replacing
less often as it seems that 3 stage chargers are more "friendly" to
batteries.

Side question ... is the Xantrex Pro 1800 Inverter a good "whole-house"
inverter (esp. for $350). Is it the same as the Xantrex PRO Series XM1800
(the pic on xantrex web site looks different than Camper World)?

Thanks!
Jay
Ben Hogland - 31 May 2006 01:19 GMT
> The Inverters with built-in 3 stage chargers start at about $999.
> The question is ... is it "worth" it to replace the (new) built-in charger
> with a three stage charger? Will I get more output from my batteries
> (e.g. 5% more amp hours ... 10%, etc). Or will they just need replacing
> less often as it seems that 3 stage chargers are more "friendly" to
> batteries.

What converter make and model do you currently have in your rig? It may
already be 3-stage.

Ben
JCM - 31 May 2006 01:35 GMT
YES YES YES. That way your batteries will charge quickly and you will
be able to use your inverter frequently.
I accidently left my hot water tank and fridge on one night on the
inverter. The batteries only took 1 hour to come back up running the
generator. If you had the standard 12-15 amp charger it woul have taken
4 or 5 days of running the generator.
Wes Stewart - 31 May 2006 03:08 GMT
>YES YES YES. That way your batteries will charge quickly and you will
>be able to use your inverter frequently.
>I accidently left my hot water tank and fridge on one night on the
>inverter. The batteries only took 1 hour to come back up running the
>generator. If you had the standard 12-15 amp charger it woul have taken
>4 or 5 days of running the generator.

Hmmm... so let's say it would take four days with a 12 A charger... 4
days * 24 hrs * 12 A totals 1152 A.  You did it in one hour (1152
Amp/hr) with your super duper gizmo?  That must be some charger and
those are some stout batteries.
William Boyd - 01 Jun 2006 13:01 GMT
>>YES YES YES. That way your batteries will charge quickly and you will
>>be able to use your inverter frequently.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Amp/hr) with your super duper gizmo?  That must be some charger and
> those are some stout batteries.

NO NO NO. He did not do what he thinks he did. Inverters
have an automatic shutoff feature if you overload it which
he probably did. They also automatically shut off when the
battery becomes low. So his batteries were more than likely
not as discharged as much as he thinks they were.

Signature

BILL P.
Just
 Me
 &
DOG

RichA - 31 May 2006 02:49 GMT
>I have a new 2006 Hurricane 33H with 2 12v house batteries. I will be
>having Camper World install a house-wide inverter (with auto-switch
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>Thanks!
>Jay
Hi,
Question why do you want a full house inverter?   If it's just for
TV/Stero/DVD player you don't need a full house inverter for them.  If
you plan on running a microwave off of one then 1800 watts isn't big
enough for most microwaves.  You only need an inverter if you plan on
using 120V items when not in a campground and you can't run your
generator.  Most RV's only have one or two circuits wired into the
inverter, usually one for a microwave and one for a coffee pot and
TV/Stero/DVD player.  1800 watts is 15 amps at 120 volts that's about
what a single circuit it a house is rated for.  So an 1800 watt inverter
probably won't work as a full house inverter.  Might be OK for one
circuit in the RV.

If you plan on using your inverter a lot then you are going to need a
bigger battery bank.  Something like 400 amps if you plan to run a
microwave off of it, which is 4 golf cart batteries.  If you get the
bigger batteries then you should take care of them because they will be
supplying power to the inverter, so you need a good battery charger. The
converter/charger that came with you coach probably isn't the best.
Something like the Xantrex Freedom 2000 or RV 2012 would be good.

To put bigger batteries in, take out the converter and replace it with
an inverter along with an automatic change over switch to switch from
generator power to shore power is not going to be cheap unless you do at
least some of it yourself.   It would have been better if you bought a
coach with this stuff already installed for sure.  That's why I asked
what are you going to use an inverter for.  If you don't really need one
you can save a lot of money by not having all these things installed as
aftermarket add ons.  There are cheaper ways of installing an inverter
to run just things like the TV/Stero then installing a whole house
system.  Of course if you are doing it because you just want to, then
that's OK too... :)

Take care and Happy Campin...

Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Tom  J - 31 May 2006 02:54 GMT
> Hi,
> Question why do you want a full house inverter?

Someone bought a new toy, and now they want to add all the bells and
whistles before they even use the rig enough to have any idea what
they have or what they need.

How for off am I 34H?

Tom J
RichA - 31 May 2006 05:06 GMT
>> Hi,
>> Question why do you want a full house inverter?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Tom J

Hi,
33H  :)   That's what I figure too. :)  Keeps the RV industry going,
though most new RV'ers do the same thing.

Take care and Happy Campin...
Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Will Sill - 31 May 2006 11:50 GMT
I see where "Rona" <ronao@cox.net> contributed:
>I have a new 2006 Hurricane 33H with 2 12v house batteries. I will be
>having Camper World install a house-wide inverter (with auto-switch
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>The question is ... is it "worth" it to replace the (new) built-in charger
>with a three stage charger?

Is anything spent (not "invested") on an RV "worth it"???   That's for
you to decide.

In hindsight, one of the best decisions we made when building our
class B was to include a pricey Heart Freedom inverter with a 3-stage
charger.   Not 'necessary' but very nice and we're glad we did it.

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Jim Redelfs - 31 May 2006 22:55 GMT
> Is anything spent (not "invested") on an RV "worth it"???   That's for
> you to decide.

That's a blatantly COMMON SENSE outlook, Will.

When it comes to RVing, there is much that I say I "need" but really just WANT
- including the RV itself.

I made a "big" decision the other day:  Instead of buying another gallon of
Thetford AquaKem to REFILL my six, little 8-oz bottles (BTDT), I decided to
just buy six more 8-oz bottles.  I even did the math and am paying nearly
TWICE for the same quantity.  I'm sure it would be different if I went out
more often, but I don't.

I guess its like using paper plates and plastic flatware while camping:  It's
part of the LUXURY of camping.

I, too, would like an inverter.  Perhaps some day.  An 1800-watt model,
however, strikes me as a bit small for a whole-house installation.
Signature

           :)
JR

2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT
2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD
Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000

William Boyd - 01 Jun 2006 02:20 GMT
> I have a new 2006 Hurricane 33H with 2 12v house batteries. I will be
> having Camper World install a house-wide inverter (with auto-switch
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Thanks!
> Jay

The auto switch to shore power sounds pretty good, but they
switch to inverter auto also. That will eat your batteries
up in a hurry. I do not like much auto stuff, I like to do
it myself. I have a checklist that I run which includes
turning the water heater to gas only and putting the frig on
gas as well. I also unplug my small electronics chargers,
I have 12VDC chargers for them if need be. I am currently
switching to a 1500watt Vector inverter. My 5er came with a
single gp24 battery, I added two Trojan 6vdc as a second
battery bank, manual switch over.
 The initial inverter I installed (Fuji) was not big enough
also proved to be un reliable. I also have the original
converter with single stage charger. Rather than upgrading,
I obtained a Vector 1097A Smart charger (3 Stage) that I can
manually charge up either battery bank as need be.
We had a lengthy discussion on sign wave that is produced by
 inverters like you are having installed, "Modified". I
have seen some inverters advertised indicating you should
check and see if your electronics are compatible with
modified sine wave power. But I have checked with all I can
and have not found any thing limiting the type sine wave. So
my upgrade is from a worthless true sine wave inverter to a
well respected name, modified one.
The only reason I want an inverter is to be able to watch
movies with my VCR and run an AC fan while boon docking. I
hate those DC fans, sounds like an airplane is trying to
take off and blows very little air.

Signature

BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,Short Bed
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K,Slider. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
two 6volt AGM Trojan Batteries,
600watt Inverter
Dual EU2000i Hondas

Just Me and Dog

Matt - 01 Jun 2006 14:17 GMT
> > I have a new 2006 Hurricane 33H with 2 12v house batteries. I will be
> > having Camper World install a house-wide inverter (with auto-switch
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> hate those DC fans, sounds like an airplane is trying to
> take off and blows very little air.

I installed a 3000 watt Xantrex Pro Sine in the coach last month. Took
everything I wanted to run off the inverter off the breaker panel and
installed a subpanel for them. Then ran a 10/2 w/ground from the main
panel to the inverter, then another 10/2 from the inverter to the
subpanel.  Works great. Now the only thing I need to do is increase the
size of the battery bank. Presently running two Trojan T105 golf cart
batteries in series. The plan is to expand that to six battery in a
series/parallel arangement.
The three stage battery charger built into the inverter is the best
thing since sliced bread. It has a battery temperature sensor that
adjusts the charge rate according to temp so as not to charge the
batteries too fast. It also does a better job than the old converter in
charging. Runs a bulk charge (absorbtion) until the batteries are up to
about 90% then tapers off to a trickle when they are 100%. Also allows
you to equalize the batteries when required. You tell the charger
through the control panel how many amp hours you have and it taylors
the charge rate to match. Great system.
The cost is up there (around $3,000.00 from CW) but I got mine for 900
from a guy in Miami that sells factory refurbs on ebay. Don't have the
link at the moment but will post it if you want it later.
One other thing, I turned the converter completely off after the
install and the inverter powers the whole coach 12V system when on
shore power or generator. Damn thing is smart enough to know it's not
charging the batteries and just increases the amperage output as
required by the load (lights, etc.)
--

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Matt
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