Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / July 2006
Dialogue about Jesus Christ
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booktwo@lorenzocrescini.it - 25 Jun 2006 06:07 GMT Jesus defeated death not for him but for all of us. In order to open to all us the door towards a happy eternity. He defeated death to let us win that "useless passion" that is the short life on earth, opening prospectives of infinite when every way seemed closed by the black wall of a final and inevitable end. Here we will talk about His Resurrection, trying to answer some questions as the ones which follow for example:
- Why can we understand the sense of our life only thinking of eternity ? - What are the reasons of our Faith? - And what about people who do not have Faith? - Why death? - Can reason and common sense help us in our Faith? - What is the mistake in the hypothesis which deny Jesus Christ?
Sito Web: www.lorenzocrescini.it/dialogue
E-Mail: ricercapap@lorenzocrescini.it
To all the readers a loving greeting Lorenzo Crescini
Ken Harrison - 25 Jun 2006 07:23 GMT > Jesus defeated death not for him but for all of us. Talk about SPAM!
Dave in Lake Villa - 25 Jun 2006 19:59 GMT 'Jesus defeated death not for him but for all of us. Talk about SPAM!'
REPLY: Hardly Spam ; its grounded in historical evidence both Christian and non Christian. Now is the time for you to do research on this most important issue by going here : www.impactapologetics.com . See the book called : 'I dont have enough faith to be an Atheist'. Very scholarly written. Be a dedicated Seeker and dont have a closed heart and mind. Regards.
Dave Lee - 25 Jun 2006 20:08 GMT > 'Jesus defeated death not for him but for all of us. > Talk about SPAM!' [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > scholarly written. Be a dedicated Seeker and dont have a closed heart > and mind. Regards. What kind of rig does he drive??
Eregon - 26 Jun 2006 01:04 GMT >> 'Jesus defeated death not for him but for all of us. >> Talk about SPAM!' [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > What kind of rig does he drive?? The same one that "Dave in Lake Villa" <DaveInLakeVilla@webtv.net> does - the VERY same one... <EG>
 Signature Quotations from Tom Gorrell:
"A wing nut without a left or right is just a nut. Which best describes me" "I'm sorry about the erratic weather and must admit it's been caused by the pinko commie Clinton & Reno supporters." "I am hiding nothing, other than the fact that I'm homosexual."
Quotation from the Graphic Queer: "I have always advocated the death of the human being and I see that I was right all along. This earth will be so much better off once we are no longer part of the mix."
Dave in Lake Villa - 28 Jun 2006 23:23 GMT ''Jesus defeated death not for him but for all of us. Talk about SPAM!' REPLY: Hardly Spam ; its grounded in historical evidence both Christian and non Christian. Now is the time for you to do research on this most important issue by going here : www.impactapologetics.com . See the book called : 'I dont have enough faith to be an Atheist'. Very scholarly written. Be a dedicated Seeker and dont have a closed heart and mind. Regards. What kind of rig does he drive??
REPLY: I drive a Class B motorhome ; on a Dodge 3500 . Jesus is my Co Pilot. Want to go to heaven after this very short life ? Then make him your Lord , Saviour, and King. He is the Creator . Have you ever taken the time to really research Jesus Christ ? He is very real. Start here
:www.impactapologetics.com then go to : www.answersingenesis.org . Dont let your pride overrule you. Jesus said he was the Creator who will be your final Judge -- thats why its worth a good look/see.
Ken Harrison - 26 Jun 2006 06:04 GMT > 'Jesus defeated death not for him but for all of us. Talk about > SPAM!' [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > enough faith to be an Atheist'. Very scholarly written. Be a > dedicated Seeker and dont have a closed heart and mind. Regards. Before I would remark on "scholarly" writing, I would see to it that my spelling and grammar were consistently scholarly. Spelling and grammar are not "leaps of faith."
KH
Dave in Lake Villa - 28 Jun 2006 23:39 GMT 'Before I would remark on "scholarly" writing, I would see to it that my spelling and grammar were consistently scholarly. Spelling and grammar are not "leaps of faith." KH '
REPLY: Fortunately, ones spelling, grammar, income, bank account, number of cars owned, size of ones Rig, achievements, trophies won, et al, ad infinitum....doesnt come into play when we are considering inviting God into our lives ; and....it really isnt a very big 'leap of faith' at all ! All the evidence is right there for you to peruse and consider and the only giant leap might be ones own pride.
William Boyd - 26 Jun 2006 01:50 GMT >Jesus defeated death not for him but for all of us. In order to open to >all us the door towards a happy eternity. He defeated death to let us [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I would think this would be more appropriate on another news group that caters to religion. We talk about RV and camping here, when we want to talk about religion we go else where. Each individual has a right to religion as well as from religion.
 Signature BILL P. Just Me & DOG
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
jo - 28 Jun 2006 20:10 GMT well said.....I would have been nastier,but who would care?
>>Jesus defeated death not for him but for all of us. In order to open to >>all us the door towards a happy eternity. He defeated death to let us [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > go else where. > Each individual has a right to religion as well as from religion. Dave in Lake Villa - 28 Jun 2006 23:43 GMT 'well said.....I would have been nastier,but who would care?'
REPLY: Jo, No need to come up with nastiness on this issue ; no need to demonstrate hostility on the topic of The Creator . But it is something that you and everyone one else on earth needs to seriously consider as 'the' most important subject matter. You just cant get any bigger than that ! If youre inclind, please go here : www.impactapologetics.com .
Pepperoni - 29 Jun 2006 03:49 GMT Please add "OT" to off- topic posts. This allows our members to employ their idiot filters . Many of our readers have limited time and slow connections.
When in doubt, the newsgroup name often describes the on topic arena. "RV" stands for recreational vehicle, not Revised Version.
Your help in this matter would be appreciated.
Pepperoni
> 'well said.....I would have been nastier,but who would care?' > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > bigger than that ! If youre inclind, please go here : > www.impactaxxxpologetics.com . Frank Tabor - 29 Jun 2006 04:04 GMT >Please add "OT" to off- topic posts. This allows our members to employ >their idiot filters . Many of our readers have limited time and slow [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Pepperoni Filtering on *@webtv.net will take care of 99% of it.
 Signature Frank Tabor
Dave in Lake Villa - 29 Jun 2006 13:01 GMT 'Please add "OT" to off- topic posts. This allows our members to employ their idiot filters . Many of our readers have limited time and slow connections. When in doubt, the newsgroup name often describes the on topic arena. "RV" stands for recreational vehicle, not Revised Version. Your help in this matter would be appreciated. Pepperoni'
REPLY: It wasnt myself who was the original poster, otherwise, i might have used 'OT' just for formality . But...while we are on the topic....have you taken the time to thoroughly reseach the historical Jesus Christ ? There is a large booklet available called : The 12 Points that Prove Christianity , written by Dr. Norman Geisler which lists all the evidence for the Theistic God of the Bible, Jesus Christ , the accuracy of the New Testament, Moral Absolutes, etc... so you can be brought up to speed allowing you to make a very rational decision on this most important issue . If your eternity hangs in the balance, then why wouldnt a person do this ? Or, at least do a google under : Evidence for Jesus Christ. As a Skeptic, i fully researched the evidence and it was enough for me to become a Believer...as many notable figures in history have. Regards.
Dave in Lake Villa - 28 Jun 2006 23:33 GMT 'I would think this would be more appropriate on another news group that caters to religion. We talk about RV and camping here, when we want to talk about religion we go else where.'
REPLY: I cant think of anything more relavent to your life and your travelling than Jesus Christ ; if you got killed the next time you got in your Camping Rig, youd soon find out if he was real or not. Besides, im not discussing 'religion' here....im talking about a personal relationship with your Creator in whom you were ultimately designed for.
'Each individual has a right to religion as well as from religion.'
REPLY: Did you know that EVERY person on earth follows some sort of 'a religion' ? If its not a major world religion, then it might be one or more of the following sub-categories : Hedonism, Narcisicism , Secular Humanism, Atheism, or others. While its true you have the right to ignore God whom you know ,intrinsically, has to exist because the Universe is quite provable to be a personal one with incredible razor edge precision and design....I would like to encourage you to give him a chance with your life and make room for him amongst your many lifelong pursuits and hobbys. Can u imagine the ramifications to ignoring the Creator / your Creator all your life .. only to meet him face to face all of a sudden upon your death ? It is indeed a very sobering thought. Regards.
Dan Listermann - 29 Jun 2006 14:12 GMT > REPLY: Did you know that EVERY person on earth follows some sort of 'a > religion' ? If its not a major world religion, then it might be one or > more of the following sub-categories : Hedonism, Narcisicism , Secular > Humanism, Atheism, or others. Is it also your opinion that EVERY person on earth follows some sort of superstition?
Dave in Lake Villa - 29 Jun 2006 17:46 GMT Did you know that EVERY person on earth follows some sort of 'a religion' ? If its not a major world religion, then it might be one or more of the following sub-categories : Hedonism, Narcisicism , Secular Humanism, Atheism, or others. Is it also your opinion that EVERY person on earth follows some sort of superstition?
REPLY: What led you to that conclusion please ? Thanks.
Dan Listermann - 29 Jun 2006 20:09 GMT > Did you know that EVERY person on earth follows some sort of 'a > religion' ? If its not a major world religion, then it might be one or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > REPLY: What led you to that conclusion please ? Thanks. Perhaps you can tell us the differences between religion and superstition.
Dave in Lake Villa - 29 Jun 2006 21:03 GMT 'Is it also your opinion that EVERY person on earth follows some sort of superstition?
REPLY: What led you to that conclusion please ? Thanks.
Perhaps you can tell us the differences between religion and superstition.'
REPLY: Are you indicating that belief in a Theistic Creator is 'superstition' ? How did you arrive at that conclusion based on your research ? Thanks.
Dan Listermann - 30 Jun 2006 15:34 GMT > 'Is it also your opinion that EVERY person on earth follows some sort of > superstition? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > 'superstition' ? How did you arrive at that conclusion based on your > research ? Thanks. Viewed from the outside, it is painfully obvious. Imagine you just arrived from Mars and started to study the religious behavior you found on Earth.
Dave in Lake Villa - 30 Jun 2006 19:43 GMT 'Are you indicating that belief in a Theistic Creator is 'superstition' ? How did you arrive at that conclusion based on your research ? Thanks.
Viewed from the outside, it is painfully obvious. Imagine you just arrived from Mars and started to study the religious behavior you found on Earth.'
REPLY: Well, if you think the 133 very narrow scientific parameters (so far discovered) of our Solar System which are all needed, simultaneously, so earth can survive and so humankind could be started....arrived without the intervention of a Personal Mind and Will (or in other words ' willy-nilly ')...perhaps you can explain how and why they all decided to get together to accomplish this specific goal ; was it just a cosmic tea party that turned into a productive meeting of some sort , in your estimation ?
If i came from Mars I would certainly know , intrinsically, that something could not arrive from nothing without a willful cause behind it. In fact, I would break out into horrific laughter that many Earthlings think they were the product of accidental / ancient Pond Scum which developed into a 206 bone human being with a brain informational capacity far exceeding The LIbrary of Congress ... all so they can feel justified in rejecting the most obvious of all things : That a personal Creator has to exist which is beyond his finite Creation....which bolsters their ulterior motive of doing life THEIR way which always involves a good dose of immoral living.
Belief in The Creator isnt 'religion' by the way.... is backed by the actual Laws of Science for which many agnostic Scientists are admitting left and right -- id be pleased to list a few if you are truly interested ; contrary to the fairy tale that life arose from dead matter (Spontaneous Generation) which was totally disproven in the last century, that fully renders Macro Evolution an utter fraud perpetuated on the masses. It will one day play out like this :
Setting : Mrs. Thompsons 3rd Grade Class Year : 2566
Mrs Thompson :' Class...today we are going to take a look at a 20th century popular theory which many at that time actually thought was fact Many believed that a tiny one celled Pond Protozoa swimming around in scum with nothing better to do, became a fully developed 6' tall Human Being over millions of years, by chance, for no apparent reason....'
(the class roars with uncontrollable laughter until Mrs. Thompson regains order...)
Look friend....its going to be far better for you to stop pretending that there is no Creator to whom you will one day be responsible to, than to suppress your God given moral conscience so you do as you darn well wish. I was once where you are today, and, there is real freedom from being set apart from the utter foolishness and being duped by our present Culture on lifestyle choices and anti-Creator rhetoric. Turn from your sins, admit your sins to God, trust Jesus who is historically verifiable, tell God you want to live for him and him alone...then surrender your life to his leadership. Then you will have eternity with him instead of getting what you always wanted while here on earth : Great distance. Dont go and mess up your entire eternity due to pride. Please.
Email me if you want to discuss this vital fact, further. And with this, i shall conclude this discussion...which IS relevant to your (RV) life and beyond.
My door is always open ,
Regards, Dave.
Pepperoni - 30 Jun 2006 20:44 GMT > 'Are you indicating that belief in a Theistic Creator is > 'superstition' ? How did you arrive at that conclusion based on your > research ? Thanks. Theism implies that the Creator made the world and let it run itself. Deism implies that the Creator has a hand in the continued administration of the Creation. If you believe that G** is active daily and continuously, you posit Deism. It must be terribly lonely as a Theist in this Deistic world. While your Christ was specific about being present "in the beginning", His action in the world implies a Deistic function.
I know, Semantics Sucks.
HTH
Pepperoni
Godless Heathen - 01 Jul 2006 03:33 GMT which IS relevant to your (RV) life and beyond.
No it isn't
My door is always open.
So is the door OUT of this group. don't let it it you on your a** as you leave
Ken Harrison - 01 Jul 2006 07:09 GMT > Email me if you want to discuss this vital fact, further. And with > this, i shall conclude this discussion. Now THERE'S a statement I can get behind!
Ken
Dan Listermann - 01 Jul 2006 16:25 GMT > 'Are you indicating that belief in a Theistic Creator is > 'superstition' ? How did you arrive at that conclusion based on your [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > was it just a cosmic tea party that turned into a productive meeting of > some sort , in your estimation ? Are you aware of how many planets there are in the Universe? I haven't the foggiest idea, but I know that there are a real big bunch. The odds of these parameters happening on a specific planet are indeed very long, but "Murphy's Law" has not been repealed. Given enough opportunities, unless you can demonstrate that it is physically impossible, not just improbable, it will likely happen somewhere sometime. Life seems to have happened here. We know this because we are part of it. We also know that it is highly likely that it has happened elsewhere as well from a Murphy's Law perspective, but it is also possible that we are the only ones. It is just not very probable.
You have to stand back from our little world to get a better perspective on things. The Universe does not orbit the Earth anymore.
WhiteSwan - 01 Jul 2006 19:59 GMT > 'Are you indicating that belief in a Theistic Creator is > 'superstition' ? How did you arrive at that conclusion based on your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > arrived from Mars and started to study the religious behavior you found > on Earth.' Everywhere I go, Daveinlake Villa is talking his usual Bull S**t!
Why are you such a turd underfoot dave?
Dave in Lake Villa - 29 Jun 2006 18:10 GMT Do you have enough Faith to be ... an 'Atheist' ???? :
Address:http://www.impactapologetics.com/product.asp?numRecordPosition=1&P_ID=264
Godless Heathen - 29 Jun 2006 23:52 GMT Pepperoni mentioned: Please add "OT" to off- topic posts. This allows our members to employ their idiot filters . Many of our readers have limited time and slow connections. When in doubt, the newsgroup name often describes the on topic arena.
"RV" stands for recreational vehicle, not Revised Version. Your help in this matter would be appreciated.
BILL P. also mentioned: Would think this would be more appropriate on another news group that caters to religion. We talk about RV and camping here, when we want to talk about religion we go else where.'
DAVE'S REPLY: I cant think of anything more relavent to your life and your travelling than Jesus Christ ; if you got killed the next time you got in your Camping Rig, youd soon find out if he was real or not. Besides, im not discussing 'religion' here....im talking about a personal relationship with your Creator in whom you were ultimately designed for.
Why not you tell us exactly what part of "Off Topic" do you fail to comprehend?
DAVE'S REPLY: But...while we are on the topic....have you taken the time to thoroughly reseach the historical Jesus Christ ?
No!...We are were not "ON THE TOPIC"
You've apparently decided to start off making enemies here with your proselytizing
DAVE'S OT REPLY:Do you have enough Faith to be ... an 'Atheist' ???? : Address:http://www.impactapologetics.com/product.asp?numRecordPosition=1&P_ID..
Frank T correctly mentioned the following: Filtering on *...@webtv.net will take care of 99% of it.
Couldn't have said it better myself, as I go off down the highway wondering why webtv consistently attracts so many profound dense idjits?
Dave in Lake Villa - 30 Jun 2006 00:37 GMT 'Why not you tell us exactly what part of "Off Topic" do you fail to comprehend?'
REPLY: Did you mean to say :' Why dont you tell us....' ? I understand what Off Topic means ; there are many Off Topics posted in this RV NG , so id like to ask you : How come this particular Off Topic creates hostility within yourself ? Lastly, I was not the Original Poster ... I am just a Responder to the Original Post. Do u understand the difference ?
'No!...We are were not "ON THE TOPIC" '
REPLY: I believe we are since the original posted topic was on Jesus , was it not ? I just had a look , and yes...it is the original post.
'You've apparently decided to start off making enemies here with your proselytizing'
REPLY: All ive said was that it behooves a person to look intently into this subject matter since ones eternity may very well be at stake if Jesus Christ is who he claimed to be (which he confirmed himself to be) Ive suggested some good source material in case someone is willing ; that isnt 'proselytizing' .... its encouragement to be an honest Seeker for the truth.
May i ask of you, why are you so intolerant toward this topic and my admonition for others to investigate The Christian Faith ? Youre showing a good deal of hositility ... and i do beleive it goes a bit deeper than me responding to an 'off topic' post . Please clarify and i thank you.
Godless Heathen - 30 Jun 2006 01:18 GMT Dave in Lake Villa wrote: that isnt 'proselytizing' ....
Yes it is! (As several others have previously mentioned) It doesn't apply to RVing and camping, no matter how you wish to disguise it.
Pepperoni: Please add "OT" to off- topic posts. This allows our members to employ their idiot filters---------------Plonkability
Frank: Filtering on *...@webtv.net will take care of 99% of it-------------Plonkability
The Original Poster was an OT troll, as one can easily see by searching out his many similar posts in other completely inappropriate groups.
Answer this question: am still wondering why webtv consistently attracts so many profoundly dense idjits?
Awaiting your non-answer
Dave Lee - 30 Jun 2006 03:55 GMT > Dave in Lake Villa wrote: that isnt 'proselytizing' .... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Awaiting your non-answer He's obviously a zealot. If so, then nothing will help.
Dave in Lake Villa - 30 Jun 2006 19:10 GMT 'He's obviously a zealot. If so, then nothing will help.'
REPLY: Dont you think we are all zealous for something / someone in life ? I believe we are. Theres plenty of things that we make 'our god' , including : Ilicit sex, hedonism, bigotry, et al. If youre going to be a Zealot, it should be appropriately channeled to what our ultimate purpose is in life , and , that is getting to know The Creator of the Universe (lest you think the Universe created itself with extraordinary design and razor edge precision...for no purpose and by complete accident).
Dave in Lake Villa - 30 Jun 2006 19:06 GMT 'Answer this question: am still wondering why webtv consistently attracts so many profoundly dense idjits? Awaiting your non-answer'
REPLY: What led you to this relative opinion ?
Godless Heathen - 01 Jul 2006 03:36 GMT > 'Answer this question: am still wondering why webtv consistently > attracts so many profoundly dense idjits? > Awaiting your non-answer' > > REPLY: What led you to this relative opinion ? Your "non-answer" continues to prove this same point-----------As to why webtv consistently attracts so many profoundly dense idjits
Jack Eason - 04 Jul 2006 20:13 GMT [snip]
>May i ask of you, why are you so intolerant toward this topic and my >admonition for others to investigate The Christian Faith ? Youre >showing a good deal of hositility ... and i do beleive it goes a bit >deeper than me responding to an 'off topic' post . Please clarify and >i thank you. This is my first post but I believe I can cite at least one reason that this topic might draw hostility. To lecture another person or a group on spiritual matters without being asked requires considerable insensitivity and arrogance. If one reviews the historry of this particular cult, one finds enormous intolerance, violence, cruelty, wars, and intellectual vacancy.
Steve B - 04 Jul 2006 22:08 GMT If one reviews the historry of this
> particular cult, one finds enormous intolerance, violence, cruelty, > wars, and intellectual vacancy. I came in late on this. Which particular cult are we talking about?
Steve
Will Sill - 04 Jul 2006 22:39 GMT I see where "Steve B" <boozoochavez@zydeco.net> contributed:
"Jack Eason" <jeason@mindspring.com> wrote
> If one reviews the historry of this >> particular cult, one finds enormous intolerance, violence, cruelty, >> wars, and intellectual vacancy. Steve:
>I came in late on this. Which particular cult are we talking about? Eason has assumed that because Jim Jones, David Koresh, and the pope all claim to represent the "Christian" faith, he chooses to call Christianity a cult. Sad, but even those of us who ARE Christians don't do very well as ambassadors. A pity, too, but this is not a good forum to try to address the real issues - which are not "religious", denominational or even cultural. The Easons of the world are content to view Christianity with contempt without having a clue what it's all about, partly because they are looking in vain for someone who meets THEIR standards rather than God's.
The war in Iraq is OVER. We won. The battle against Islaamic jihadists rages on.. Will Sill
Steve B - 05 Jul 2006 01:11 GMT >I see where "Steve B" <boozoochavez@zydeco.net> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The battle against Islaamic jihadists rages on.. > Will Sill And the problem is that most Christians IMHO are invisible. They just go on living their lives. Doing the next right thing. Trying to help others. They are the ones that will be taken at the Rapture, and those who will inherit the earth. They are the silent, the invisible, the ones who don't even enter into this conversation because it is futile to argue with idiots.
Believe what you will. Live your life accordingly, I say. Each person is the one who will answer for it ultimately. If there is no God, no big deal. If there is, then there's hell to pay. Each man bets his eternity on it, and hopes he's right.
As for me and my house, we choose to serve the Lord.
Steve
Ken Harrison - 05 Jul 2006 08:00 GMT > They are the ones that will be taken at the Rapture, and those who > will inherit the earth. They are the silent, the invisible, the ones > who don't even enter into this conversation because it is futile to > argue with idiots. The (so-called) Rapture is, of course, one of the fundamentalist beliefs that leads those who occupy positions that should be occupied by leaders to ignore their effect on the environment. ("What does it matter that we might hasten the end of life as we know it on the Earth?").
The problem is, this approach ignores all the *other* people in the world. I have no problem with fundamentalism, except to the extent that it impinges on *my* life. Rapturists can look forward to their reward, but why are they allowed to drag me into the discussion? Your rapture makes my life more difficult. Why?
Ken
Will Sill - 05 Jul 2006 11:46 GMT I see where Ken Harrison <sptrain98@earthlink.net> contributed:
>The (so-called) Rapture is, of course, one of the fundamentalist beliefs >that leads those who occupy positions that should be occupied by leaders [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >but why are they allowed to drag me into the discussion? Your rapture >makes my life more difficult. Why? I often disagree with Steve, but he pretty well summed up why I spend very likttle effort arguing with your POV:
:And the problem is that most Christians IMHO are invisible. They just go on :living their lives. Doing the next right thing. Trying to help others. :They are the ones that will be taken at the Rapture, and those who will :inherit the earth. They are the silent, the invisible, the ones who don't :even enter into this conversation because it is futile to argue with idiots. You are NOT "dragged into the discussion" - you volunteered a POV which is frankly based on a complete lack of understanding.
Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Steve B - 05 Jul 2006 16:47 GMT >> They are the ones that will be taken at the Rapture, and those who >> will inherit the earth. They are the silent, the invisible, the ones [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Ken Because you suffer from guilt and angst over not believing in anything but yourself?
If it truly doesn't make any difference in you, why the emotions?
Steve
Dan Listermann - 05 Jul 2006 14:22 GMT If there is no God, no big deal.
> If there is, then there's hell to pay. Each man bets his eternity on it, > and hopes he's right. > > As for me and my house, we choose to serve the Lord. > > Steve "Pascal's Wager" is a sad reason to believe in a religion. The big "Mumbo Jumbo" in the sky will probably not look well on this rationale if such a thing exists at all.
Will Sill - 05 Jul 2006 15:53 GMT >"Pascal's Wager" is a sad reason to believe in a religion. The big "Mumbo >Jumbo" in the sky will probably not look well on this rationale if such a >thing exists at all. I find it interesting that those who profess agnosticism seem to holler the loudest and most viciously against those who do believe in a soverign, omnipotent God. You'd think they could just ignore the topic, wouldn't ya?
But there's that still small voice of doubt, isn't there?
Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Dan Listermann - 05 Jul 2006 18:11 GMT >>"Pascal's Wager" is a sad reason to believe in a religion. The big "Mumbo >>Jumbo" in the sky will probably not look well on this rationale if such a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > But there's that still small voice of doubt, isn't there? That is a bit presumptuous on you, isn't it?
Perhaps your doubt is exposed in your "Pascal's Wager?"
Steve B - 05 Jul 2006 16:48 GMT > If there is no God, no big deal. >> If there is, then there's hell to pay. Each man bets his eternity on it, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Jumbo" in the sky will probably not look well on this rationale if such a > thing exists at all. Well, Dan, that's your opinion, and I respect it.
Steve
Dan Listermann - 05 Jul 2006 18:09 GMT >> If there is no God, no big deal. >>> If there is, then there's hell to pay. Each man bets his eternity on [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Steve That is nice of you.
Ken Harrison - 07 Jul 2006 08:12 GMT > And the problem is that most Christians IMHO are invisible. It isn't a problem, Steve, it is the way it *should* be. Religion is too personal to be hung on one's shirt sleeve for all to see. And since religion is personal (and even atheism is a religion in one sense of the word), no person has a right to attempt to change another's beliefs.
The fundamental problem is that each person, as a proselyter, is not really trying to be religious, he is trying to be *right.* And trying to be *right* makes conflicts, and even wars. And it has been so since the emergence of the common religions of Judao-Christian times (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, all of which share the same god).
More power to you and your rapture. Just don't try to convince me and others that your understanding is *right.* Such understandings are irrelevant to my understanding. Ergo, Christian invisibility is to be desired, not demeaned.
Ken (I may have misspelled "Judao")
Will Sill - 07 Jul 2006 12:12 GMT I see where Ken Harrison <sptrain98@earthlink.net> contributed:
> Religion is >too personal to be hung on one's shirt sleeve for all to see. And since >religion is personal (and even atheism is a religion in one sense of the >word), no person has a right to attempt to change another's beliefs. Sad.
If you knew flood waters had washed a huge hole out of the highway ahead, would you feel any obligation to warn drivers approaching same?
(Authorities are still looking for the body of one trucker who drove into such a hole on the interstate highway near here.)
Q: If there is a hole in the highway you're traveling, does it make any difference what you believe about it?
Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
GBinNC - 07 Jul 2006 12:55 GMT >I see where Ken Harrison <sptrain98@earthlink.net> contributed: > >> Religion is >>too personal to be hung on one's shirt sleeve for all to see. And since >>religion is personal (and even atheism is a religion in one sense of the >>word), no person has a right to attempt to change another's beliefs.
>If you knew flood waters had washed a huge hole out of the highway >ahead, would you feel any obligation to warn drivers approaching same? Here we go with the "belief" versus "knowlege" thing again, Ken. We've been through this before with Will.
You may as well give up now. He has proven himself truly unable to comprehend the difference.
GB in NC
Ken Harrison - 08 Jul 2006 07:31 GMT > Here we go with the "belief" versus "knowlege" thing again, Ken. > We've been through this before with Will. > > You may as well give up now. He has proven himself truly unable to > comprehend the difference. Alas, too bad. His curmudgeonly attitude is sometimes very appealing to me (I share that "virtue," I might add). So it is too bad that he can't recognize his foibles.
Ken
Ken Harrison - 08 Jul 2006 07:26 GMT > I see where Ken Harrison <sptrain98@earthlink.net> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sad. No, not sad; personal. Quit insisting that you are *right*. Just accept that others believe differently and leave them and us alone.
Ken
Jack Eason - 08 Jul 2006 17:20 GMT >I see where "Steve B" <boozoochavez@zydeco.net> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >The battle against Islaamic jihadists rages on.. > Will Sill Given that I was reacting to boorish, aggressive proselytizing by persons who seemed bigoted, intolerant and ignorant to me, I take your point that my labeling Christianity in general as a cult is unreasonable, unfair and incorrect. However there are many calling themselves Christians who talk and act like cults (to say nothing o fthe Inquisition and the Crusades). And yes, I think contempt does describe my attitude.
But I have nothing but admiration and respect for persons who are trying to follow the teachings of Jesus and/or who look to each other for spiritual gudance and who care about morals and ethics.
Thank you for helping me clarify my remarks.
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