Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2006
Where to get vintage Class B manuals (a little long)?
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Jean S. Barto - 12 Aug 2006 03:16 GMT Hi folks--
I probably asked this before when I last accessed the newsgroups, but I'd really like to find out where I could get an operating manual for my vintage class B RV--a 18"to 19' long 1979 Dodge Ram. I bought it back in late 2003, and haven't used the RV nearly as much as I thought I would. I'd like to use it a bit this fall, before either deciding to keep it, or sell it for what I can get for it.
I have Livingston's RV Repair manual, but it would really be even better if I could locate a manual for the RV systems. The only one I have is for the stove/oven--which right now I'm afraid/nervous about using. Right now, I'm unsure even how to power up the converter or check the RV battery, or fill the RV water tank. When I tried running the RV's air conditioning this afternoon, it didn't work, and I think that was because the RV battery (not the automotive battery) was dead.
I had the RV winterized after I bought it in December 2003, and I don't think I ever refilled the water tank in the spring/summer of 2004. So, I think the water systems are dry. I do think, though, there is a full RV propane tank--but like I said, the RV remained parked in my driveway.
If I had a book that could walk me through operating the RV systems step-by-step, I could learn how to work them at my own pace, and gradually learn to operate them myself. I was shown how to do these things by someone back in 2004, but of course I've forgotten how. That 'walk-thru" cost me money, and I'm reluctant to do that again, especially if I forget again how to operate everything!
BTW, I'm female, and 51--and although I'm certainly not elderly or confused, I am not particularly mechanically inclined. For example, although I do add fluids to my own car, and can *jump* my car if necessary, I *do not* change the oil, or fix burned out headlights, and would have considerable trouble changing a flat tire on my own.
Also, none of my male friends own RVs or boats (also common around here), and generally are just as mechanically ignorant as I am. In closing, I'd like to use the RV two or three times this fall before selling it, but I want to do so safely--and having manuals, with detailed directions, would really bolster my confidence and help me feel more comfortable/confident about taking my RV out, even to the nearby city campground for a weekend, or to local running races, or over to Virginia Beach to Dam Neck/Sandbridge for the day.
Thanks in advance,
Jean in VA
Jon Porter - 12 Aug 2006 05:06 GMT > Hi folks-- > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > (not > the automotive battery) was dead. It's a van, so you'll want a repair manual for that model year van (if you intend to do repairs on the chassis). Try a used book store for that.
For the fridge, water heater, furnace, water pump and other applicances, identify the various manufacturors of those items and look them up on the web. Some might have online resources that can help. For stuff such as cabinetry, holding tanks, fresh water tank, forget it. Just learn how to use thoses systems, they are easy enough tofigure out.
Have you tried contacting the manufacturor of the Class B?
You could try asking specific things here. For instance, the proceedure for filling the fresh water tank usually is to open the fill cap, stick a food grade hose in it and let 'er rip! When water flows back out of the fill port, it's full. And to run the air conditioner, the RV needs to be plugged into AC power, or the generator turned on (if equipped). There should be a gauge directly on the propane tank near the fill valve.
 Signature Jon JPinOH
Jean S. Barto - 12 Aug 2006 20:32 GMT On 8/12/06 12:06 AM, in article 44dd53ca_1@x-privat.org, "Jon Porter"
> It's a van, so you'll want a repair manual for that model year van (if you > intend to do repairs on the chassis). Try a used book store for that. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > into AC power, or the generator turned on (if equipped). There should be a > gauge directly on the propane tank near the fill valve. Thank you for replying. I must differ with you, however on one thing. These RV systems (holding tanks, fresh water tank, how to fill/empty them, and other stuff) are *not* "easy enough" for some of us to figure out, especially when tools and needing significant hand strength is involved. I am not disabled physically by any means, but I have very small hands and fingers for an adult woman, and so my hand strength when using tools, or when turning knobs/fixtures/fittings, is likely *much* less than yours. My lack of hand strength is a daily issue for me at home as well, as I am limited in the kinds of home repairs, etc. I can do myself.
Additionally, since this van/RV is 27 years old, the dials/switches are not labeled, or all in one place, like a newer model. I have seen newer RVs, and owned a 28 foot Carver boat briefly in the late 80s, and I know that all the control switches, etc. are pretty much all in one place in newer equipment.
Here's something you can answer for me. There are two places on the outer left hand side of the van which look to be places where one would fill the water holding tank. One hole is threaded so it looks like it could receive a hose that would screw into it. The other hole has a round plastic covering over it, that, when it is tilted partially away, shows a round 3/4 inch opening, which is unthreaded, but looks to be where someone could put a slightly narrower hose down in it. I'm sure one place is to put the water in, and the other place is to drain water out, but I don't know which is which. Neither opening is labeled "in" or "out."
***So, if you or someone else can tell me which hole I use to *fill* the RV water holding tank, and how I would treat the water so that it is safe in case it is inadvertently ingested, that would be great.***
I don't want to screw things up, that's why I am so gun-shy about doing these things on my own without a manual. I've read stories about people inadvertently blowing themselves up or causing accidents/fires in their RVs because of making critical mistakes that to some of you might seem stupid, but to us greenhorns, might make sense. I don't want to be the latest recipient of a "Darwin Award."
OTOH, taking the van to an RV shop to have them do things for me for a hefty price, gets the job done. However, doing that doesn't help me get me more comfortable with using the van for its intended purpose. Right now, the van is nothing more than a gas-hog mode of transportation, taking up room in my driveway and costing me hundreds of dollars every time I want to "get it ready" to do anything with.
The RV manufacturer I think is Cobra--because that is what is stenciled/painted on the upper outer side of the van. I believe this RV manufacturer went out of business a long time ago.
BTW, I am not a troll, I am simply a very inexperienced and mechanically challenged woman who would like to use her van RV a few times this fall, maybe even for one long weekend at the local campground 10 minutes from my house, before I finally admit I bit off way more than I could chew, and sell the damn thing for what I can get for it.
Sorry again for the length of this second post. I am moderately frustrated at my ignorance and inability to do even relatively simple things myself involving my van, and it likely underscores the fact that I made a costly error in ever thinking I could handle anything as mechanically demanding as an older Class B RV, or, in fact, any RV at all.
Jean in VA
Lone Haranguer - 12 Aug 2006 20:45 GMT > On 8/12/06 12:06 AM, in article 44dd53ca_1@x-privat.org, "Jon Porter" > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > in, and the other place is to drain water out, but I don't know which is > which. Neither opening is labeled "in" or "out." From your description, I would guess that the threaded connection is for a hose hookup to the spigot in a campground. The plastic-capped one is PROBABLY the fill point for an on-board water tank. Does the van have an on-board water pump? I assume it does.
> ***So, if you or someone else can tell me which hole I use to *fill* the RV > water holding tank, and how I would treat the water so that it is safe in > case it is inadvertently ingested, that would be great.*** Fill it and drain it a few times. Most city water systems have enough chlorine to kill any bugs.
> Sorry again for the length of this second post. I am moderately frustrated > at my ignorance and inability to do even relatively simple things myself [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jean in VA Take the thing to a campground and try it. You will probably find that your fellow campers have a wealth of useful information. Those that don't know will undoubtedly have sources that DO know. LZ
Carl A. - 12 Aug 2006 20:51 GMT > Here's something you can answer for me. There are two places on the outer > left hand side of the van which look to be places where one would fill the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > in, and the other place is to drain water out, but I don't know which is > which. Neither opening is labeled "in" or "out." Jean,
the threaded hole is for connecting a food-grade hose to the water faucet at home or the campground. The 3/4 hole most likely is for filling the water tank.
Connecting to the water faucet doesn't fill the water tank.
 Signature Carl A. in FL Photojournals of my travels are at http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/
Lon VanOstran - 12 Aug 2006 23:26 GMT > the threaded hole is for connecting a food-grade hose to the water faucet at > home or the campground. The 3/4 hole most likely is for filling the water > tank. > > Connecting to the water faucet doesn't fill the water tank. She needs to check to be sure that the threaded hose fitting isn't a sewer flush. If it is, and she thinks she is simply hooking up to city water, it could create a nasty flood inside. It's pretty easy to tell the difference once hooked up, but also pretty easy to cause a mess if you aren't checking.
Lon
Lone Haranguer - 13 Aug 2006 00:00 GMT >> the threaded hole is for connecting a food-grade hose to the water >> faucet at home or the campground. The 3/4 hole most likely is for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > She needs to check to be sure that the threaded hose fitting isn't a > sewer flush. I doubt a van of that vintage came equipped with a sewer flush. She can open a faucet and have someone turn on the spigot if she's in doubt. LZ
> Lon Carl A. - 13 Aug 2006 04:50 GMT >> the threaded hole is for connecting a food-grade hose to the water faucet >> at home or the campground. The 3/4 hole most likely is for filling the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Lon You are, of course, right. However, AFAIK there is no class B with a sewer flush.
 Signature Carl A. in FL Photojournals of my travels are at http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/
HT - 12 Aug 2006 20:59 GMT >On 8/12/06 12:06 AM, in article 44dd53ca_1@x-privat.org, "Jon Porter" >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> identify the various manufacturors of those items and look them up on the >> web. Some might have online resources that can help. For stuff such as
>Here's something you can answer for me. There are two places on the outer >left hand side of the van which look to be places where one would fill the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >in, and the other place is to drain water out, but I don't know which is >which. Neither opening is labeled "in" or "out." The threaded connection is for atttaching a food-grade water hose from the campsite fresh water connection to the rv, allowing you to use the campground water, rather than the fresh water in the rv tank. You use this usually without the water pump. It would be a good idea to put a water hose add-on pressure regulator of around 40 lbs. on this line, and to test it for leaks before relying on it completely.
The other larger opening is the inlet for filling the fresh water tank with a water hose, preferably food grade. You insert the hose into the opening, turn on the hose and fill with water until water flows back out, indicating full. Most people would add a tablesoppon or so of bleach into the empty hose, then insert it into the tank and fill the tank up, allowing the bleach to work in the fresh water tank. Some where under the unit, probably around the fresh water tank or in the pluming lines running from it to the water pump might be a valve that you can open and drain the fresh water tank. If so, do the bleach and water a couple times, letting it sit overnight, then draining. Fill the fresh water system and test the rv water pump, checking for leaks. If you can't find a drain, then make sure the water pump in the rv works, and just pump the fresh water tank thru the system and down the kitchen drain. The kitchen drain should go into the Grey water tank, and be easily drained out thru the main sewage line. Grey water tank will be the one with the smaller pipes and smaller dump gate valve on the sewage system. Most likely the grey and black (toilet) sewage are seperated. You would open the last end cap on the sewage dump line, then open the smaller gate valve for the grey water tank and let the water flow out. If the tank hasn't been used in 30 years or whatever, then there shouldn't be anything foul in it, maybe-you hope...lol
There you sould have learned about your water system and a little about the sewage dumping system..lol
 Signature HT
Max - 12 Aug 2006 21:52 GMT > Sorry again for the length of this second post. I am moderately > frustrated [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jean in VA Jean, I'm surprised that only a few have offered anything in the way of advice. If you would care to e-mail your questions I'm sure I can be of some help. (most posters here are veterans who may not be interested in a lengthy exchange of fairly basic RV knowledge) I'm a retired Deputy Fire Chief, happily married and not interested in an internet "affair". My e-mail address should be obvious.
Max
GBinNC - 12 Aug 2006 22:10 GMT >BTW, I am not a troll, I am simply a very inexperienced and mechanically >challenged woman who would like to use her van RV a few times this fall, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >error in ever thinking I could handle anything as mechanically demanding as >an older Class B RV, or, in fact, any RV at all. Jean, I don't know where you are in VA, but we live in central NC, and if you're willing to take a day trip to our place I would be happy to spend the couple of hours necessary to show you how to use the various systems on the van. This would probably cost you less in gas than you would pay an RV shop to show you what you need to know.
I have a Class B and a fair amount of mechanical ability, as well as the patience to teach someone else. I'm not interested in getting involved in any needed repairs, but at least you'd know what works and what doesn't -- and how to use what does.
I would be happy to help a fellow RVer in this way. It would be a shame for you to "give up" on something that can be so much fun and expand your life in the way an RV can, just because you don't know how to use the vehicle. (I'm retired, so my schedule is fairly flexible <g>.)
You can e-mail me if you wish and we can discuss the details. Just drop the last "oo" from "yahoooo" in my address.
GB in NC
Carl A. - 12 Aug 2006 22:19 GMT > Jean, I don't know where you are in VA, but we live in central NC, and > if you're willing to take a day trip to our place I would be happy to > spend the couple of hours necessary to show you how to use the various > systems on the van. This would probably cost you less in gas than you > would pay an RV shop to show you what you need to know. ---------- snip ------------
Jean,
I've known GB for more than five years, visited him and his wife, and will absolutely vouch that he is a "safe" guy whose offer is a valid one that you can trust.
Just don't talk politics with him, or your van will fall apart.
I'd also warn you about retired fire chiefs. Always eager to rescue damsels in distress. This one has an absolutely charming wife who knows how to keep her man on a short leash, and a fiercely protective spaniel who isn't on a leash.
Carl A.
Max - 12 Aug 2006 23:20 GMT >> Jean, I don't know where you are in VA, but we live in central NC, and >> if you're willing to take a day trip to our place I would be happy to [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Carl A. LOL. Absolutely correct.
Max
Frank Tabor - 12 Aug 2006 22:29 GMT >>BTW, I am not a troll, I am simply a very inexperienced and mechanically >>challenged woman who would like to use her van RV a few times this fall, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >GB in NC If that's too far away, I'm near Lynchburg, VA.
 Signature Frank Tabor
Rick Onanian - 13 Aug 2006 01:11 GMT > Thank you for replying. I must differ with you, however on one thing. > These RV systems (holding tanks, fresh water tank, how to fill/empty them, > and other stuff) are *not* "easy enough" for some of us to figure out, > especially when tools and needing significant hand strength is involved. I Your frustration and intimidation is understandable. I'm male, young and foolish, technically inclined, strong, and able to fix nearly anything, and even I was quite intimidated when I got started a couple years ago.
> Additionally, since this van/RV is 27 years old, the dials/switches are not > labeled, or all in one place, like a newer model. I have seen newer RVs, > and owned a 28 foot Carver boat briefly in the late 80s, and I know that all > the control switches, etc. are pretty much all in one place in newer > equipment. OTOH, older RVs simply have very few controls. There's a lot less features, AFAIK.
> Here's something you can answer for me. There are two places on the outer > left hand side of the van which look to be places where one would fill the > water holding tank. One hole is threaded so it looks like it could receive > a hose that would screw into it. The other hole has a round plastic > covering over it, that, when it is tilted partially away, shows a round 3/4 As others have said, these are most likely as follows: Threaded: For hookup to live, pressured water supply (your home hose spigot or a campground water hookup). Use this whenever you have a supply available. Unthreaded tilt-open: For filling fresh water supply tank. Requires your water pump to operate for you to have running water. Use this when "boondocking", that is, camping somewhere without hookups. You should have a switch for your water pump. It may be near the kitchen sink.
> ***So, if you or someone else can tell me which hole I use to *fill* the RV > water holding tank, and how I would treat the water so that it is safe in > case it is inadvertently ingested, that would be great.*** There was a recent discussion on sanitizing the water system. Bleach sanitizes and kills any life in the system; baking soda gets rid of bad flavors/odors (including bleach). Here's my post in that discussion: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rv/browse_frm/thread/74fa6b5d4b81662b/87de548 18bf1af8d
I suggest there, and I'll suggest to you too, Trailer Life's Rv Repair and Maintenance Manual by Bob Livingston.
> I don't want to screw things up, that's why I am so gun-shy about doing > these things on my own without a manual. I've read stories about people > inadvertently blowing themselves up or causing accidents/fires in their RVs > because of making critical mistakes that to some of you might seem stupid, > but to us greenhorns, might make sense. I don't want to be the latest > recipient of a "Darwin Award." I understand. I felt the same way, although I was more worried about the waste tanks (eww! poop!) and breaking expensive stuff.
> The RV manufacturer I think is Cobra--because that is what is > stenciled/painted on the upper outer side of the van. I believe this RV > manufacturer went out of business a long time ago. I have a 1988 Cobra Salem travel trailer. The company is out of business. Many of their product lines were bought by another RV manufacturer, but I don't remember who.
> BTW, I am not a troll, I am simply a very inexperienced and mechanically So far, you don't look like a troll -- and unlike recent trolls, you are responsive and specifically say you are not. Seems fine to me. :)
> house, before I finally admit I bit off way more than I could chew, and sell > the damn thing for what I can get for it. That would be a bummer.
> Sorry again for the length of this second post. I am moderately frustrated Don't worry. I'm rather verbose in my posts, too. The worst thing that happens is that people get bored and don't bother reading the rest or replying.
> at my ignorance and inability to do even relatively simple things myself > involving my van, and it likely underscores the fact that I made a costly > error in ever thinking I could handle anything as mechanically demanding as > an older Class B RV, or, in fact, any RV at all. Well, the RV-specific issues are mostly simple from a mechanical point of view. Especially older models like ours, have very primitive technology.
Neon John - 13 Aug 2006 02:38 GMT >> Thank you for replying. I must differ with you, however on one thing. >> These RV systems (holding tanks, fresh water tank, how to fill/empty them, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Your frustration and intimidation is understandable. I'm male, young >and foolish, Yup....
>As others have said, these are most likely as follows: >Threaded: For hookup to live, pressured water supply (your home hose >spigot or a campground water hookup). Use this whenever you have a >supply available. Adding to that, the pressure must be controlled below about 40 psi or else the plumbing in the RV will be damaged. You can buy a very small pressure regulator in the $20 range at Wal*mart (in the RV-automotive section) or at any RV supply store. Place this regulator on the faucet side of the hose so that the hose will also be protected from high pressure.
Unless you like the taste of garden hose water, get a white food-grade hose for the water supply. Again, available at Wal*mart or RV store. Make sure it says "food grade" or "sanitary" on the hose, as some white hoses are not food grade.
This screw-on connection provides "city water" to your RV directly and bypasses the internal tank and pump. You cannot fill the tank from this connection unless yours is the rare RV with a "fill" valve. Most RVs require the tank filling be done through the separate non-pressurized opening like you describe.
>Unthreaded tilt-open: For filling fresh water supply tank. Requires >your water pump to operate for you to have running water. Use this when [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >I suggest there, and I'll suggest to you too, Trailer Life's Rv Repair >and Maintenance Manual by Bob Livingston. Good suggestions. Further suggestion. Visit a local restaurant supply and get a bottle of chlorine bleach test strips. Less than $5 for 100 strips. These are used to verify that the dish washing sanitizing bath has the proper amount of chlorine in it. The minimum concentration for sanitizing is 50 parts-per-million (PPM). This is a small amount that barely has an odor.
To sanitize your water system, place a few (~8 oz or so) ounces of bleach in the tank filler and then fill the tank. Run the pump and pump the solution throughout the plumbing system by opening each faucet and letting the water flow until bleach water is present. Wet a test strip with the water and compare it to the color chart on the side of the tube. If there isn't enough bleach, add a few more ounces to the tank.
The reason you want to do this slightly more complicated procedure is that if you don't measure you're overwhelmingly likely to use way too much bleach. The excess bleach is hard to get rid of and will make the water taste funny for quite some time. At 50 PPM, the chlorine is just barely odorous and adds only a slight taste to the water. One good flushing of the system with fresh water will get rid of the taste. Baking soda doesn't do anything to get rid of the odor (there is no chemical reaction between sodium bicarbonate and sodium hypochlorite) and will only lend its own bad taste.
If you get way too much bleach in the system and it seems like it's impossible to get rid of the taste/odor, a few DROPS (3-5 to start) of photographic fixer (sodium thiosulfate, also known as "hypo".) added to the water tank instantly kills the chlorine without any negative effects. Add the hypo to the tank and then pump the solution throughout the plumbing as with the sanitizing process. (chemophobes: yes, hypo is toxic in high concentrations. So is salt. We're not dealing with high concentrations here.) You can get hypo at any well-equipped camera store. BTW, a squirt bottle of hypo is something handy to keep around the laundry. If you accidentally spill bleach on your clothes and can get the hypo on the spot quickly, it won't bleach out the color. I keep a dish detergent bottle full of hypo in a holder within arm's reach of my washing machine. I've saved more than one garment with the stuff. Hypo will also kill that nasty chlorine odor on your hands after you get bleach on them.
Be sure to drain the water heater before starting the flushing or else you'll be flushing forever to try to get rid of that 6 gallons of chlorinated water. The heater should have some sort of drain plug or valve inside the cover. Open the valve and then hold the safety valve lever open to allow air in as the water drains.
Once you do an initial sanitization, you should not have to do it again UNLESS you leave the tank full in hot weather for an extended period AND the tank is exposed to sunlight (even reflected sunlight from the ground) AND it is translucent. Under those conditions, the chlorine from the city water will dissipate and algae will grow, making the water bright green.
If you fill the tank from the city water tap (chlorinated) and you drain the tank after each outing, the chlorine the city adds will keep the tank clean and free of algae. Water from such a system is just as good as that from the tap so you should have no fear of drinking it.
I personally like the taste of distilled water so I carry along a jug or two for drinking but I make coffee and tea and cook with the water from my water system without giving it a second thought.
>> I don't want to screw things up, that's why I am so gun-shy about doing >> these things on my own without a manual. I've read stories about people >> inadvertently blowing themselves up or causing accidents/fires in their RVs >> because of making critical mistakes that to some of you might seem stupid, >> but to us greenhorns, might make sense. I don't want to be the latest >> recipient of a "Darwin Award." No problem there. Ask any question that comes to mind. Ignore those who are rude. The rest of us who are here to help people will respond and not make you feel silly. We all were nubes at one time.
>> The RV manufacturer I think is Cobra--because that is what is >> stenciled/painted on the upper outer side of the van. I believe this RV >> manufacturer went out of business a long time ago. That's really not much of a problem unless you need a part that was actually made by the company. Even then there are many RV salvage companies out there, many on the net, where you can probably find a part. All the appliances, fixtures and most fittings are standard off-the-shelf items that can be purchased most anywhere RV parts are sold.
Very few RVs come with a single manual. Most come with a collection of manuals for the individual components (furnace, stove, AC, etc) and perhaps a manual-ette covering rig-specific things. Very few things are truly rig-specific because almost all mfrs do things pretty much the same way so not having that rig-specific manual isn't a major handicap.
>> house, before I finally admit I bit off way more than I could chew, and sell >> the damn thing for what I can get for it. > >That would be a bummer. Yep. Once you get through the raw nube stage, you'll have a ball. All this overwhelming stuff will quickly become second nature. My ex, who was about as non-technical as anyone could get, very quickly caught on to operating my rig and could take it out by herself when she wanted.
We did and I still do take my small Class C along even on day trips so that I'll have a place to rest, a cool place to return to, have good food available and have a clean bathroom. It probably gets as much use as my car.
>> at my ignorance and inability to do even relatively simple things myself >> involving my van, and it likely underscores the fact that I made a costly >> error in ever thinking I could handle anything as mechanically demanding as >> an older Class B RV, or, in fact, any RV at all. Hey, where's that liberated woman spirit? :-) Once you get things sorted out, operating the RV will become second nature. Probably the worst thing you'll have to do on a routine basis is drain the holding tanks and even that isn't so bad after you work out a routine.
Just continue to ask your questions and we'll do our best to help. If you have the capabilities, a photo or two of the problem at hand, posted to your personal web page or a photo hosting site, will do wonders toward helping us give the right answer.
John --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
JanOrme99@aol.com - 13 Aug 2006 18:58 GMT Some of you on this thread may be wondering about a good source for various Vehicle "Manuals & Literature."
Here is a link to the e-Bay area for Manuals & Literature for all types of vehicles and aircraft etc.
http://tinyurl.com/koxg7
I suggest that you search that section under "Car & Truck" and "Other" This morning in that section there were 39,794 listings under Car & Truck and 2,984 listings under Other.
In the past, when I have needed Shop Manuals for various parts of various vehicles, I have bought them on e-Bay at a fair price. That source is great if you for example buy and old collector car that you will be working on.
Recently I bought a 1964 Falcon Convertible and picked up several shop manuals and the owners manual off of e-bay.
You may not always find what you seek there on any given day. But checking back there every so often you might.
Jan Eric Orme "He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead."
Jean S. Barto - 13 Aug 2006 20:16 GMT Thanks to everyone for replying. I had an "epiphany" last nite when driving home from an evening running race, and figured out that the threaded water connection is for city water, and the protected unthreaded connection is to fill the water tank. I don't have one of those white "sanitary grade" hoses, so I'll need to get one of those.
I also figured out that the A/C system (rooftop-mounted) wasn't working when I tried it, because I wasn't hooked up to landline electrical power. There isn't a generator in the RV, so I guess the rooftop A/C would only work if the RV was plugged in to city electric? I don't think the rooftop A/C is connected in any way to the automotive battery, and could not be, for that would run down the automotive battery very quickly? Like I said, I bought the van nearly 3 years ago, and have forgotten most of what was told to me by the guy I bought it from.
After I go out to buy the white water hose and some longer extension cords (so I can plug the van into my house power), I'll post here again and tell you what happened after I've tried to do everything.
In any case, I started the van up at noontime, after it had been sitting since Friday afternoon. I was told by the guy who worked on it that since it was an older van, I needed to pump the accelerator a couple of time when starting it. He said that the carburetor needed gas in it for the car to start. I did so, and after it *squealed* for a few seconds, the engine turned over and kept on running without any problem. It runs now better than it ever did. That said, the van does not start up as easily as my car (1990 Acura Integra w/ 250,500 miles on it). The mechanic also said that I needed to go out and start the van at least once a week. Since I don't know what I'm doing mechanically, for me that means to start it twice or three times a week, and let it run until it warms up--I guess that would mean 10 minutes or so each time?
I just don't want to inadvertently flood out the van when I attempt to start it, nor leave it sit too long so that I would have to jump the battery. The automotive battery is wedged in under the hood so tightly so that I have trouble getting jumper cables to the battery terminals--and, the battery is larger, and so I also have trouble moving/lifting it.
So, I'll go to Lowe's and get what I need, and try filling the water tank, etc and get back to you all.
Thanks again,
Jean in VA
On 8/12/06 9:38 PM, in article 2musd29jg2rr533nqmjmcpl1kk5ko25jjq@4ax.com,
>>> Thank you for replying. I must differ with you, however on one thing. >>> These RV systems (holding tanks, fresh water tank, how to fill/empty them, [quoted text clipped - 176 lines] > Cleveland, Occupied TN > Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain JanOrme99@aol.com - 13 Aug 2006 20:27 GMT <snip>
> I also figured out that the A/C system (rooftop-mounted) wasn't working when > I tried it, because I wasn't hooked up to landline electrical power. There [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the van nearly 3 years ago, and have forgotten most of what was told to me > by the guy I bought it from. <snip> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Jean.
Yes, that is correct for your Roof Air. With no generator you will need to be plugged into regulat land power in order for it to function. It is not connected to your batteries. Your 12 volt battery system will not be powerfull enough to run AC or say a Microwave.
Try to get a good book on basic RV System Functions. Maybe at a Camping World if you have one where you are.
Best Regards,
Jan Eric Orme "Work like you don't need the money, love like you have never been hurt and dance like no one is watching."
Max - 13 Aug 2006 21:12 GMT If you're going to buy an extension cord to connect to the RV with the intention of seeing if the A/C will work, be advised that you may find that the house circuit breaker (and the wiring) may not be of sufficient capacity to supply the amount of electricity the A/C will need, even with everything else in the RV turned off. It is also likely that you will need an adapter to be able to plug the RV cord into a regular receptacle. Most WalMarts carry the adapters and an extension cord made for RVs.
Max
> Thanks to everyone for replying. I had an "epiphany" last nite when > driving [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Jean in VA Jean S. Barto - 14 Aug 2006 01:58 GMT Hi folks,
I went to Lowe's and got a white food-grade water hose, and a 25-foot heavy-duty 15 amp (contractor grade, for air compressors and generators) extension cord and male/female adapter. Along with a lawn/garden extension cord I needed for my hedge clippers, everything cost me just over $51.00.
When I got home I started filling the van with water. I found that the holding tank and adjacent water lines are probably leaking, because just as soon as I started filling the tank from the water input hole, I began seeing dripping from a number of places underneath the van, significant enough so that it made a big puddle underneath the back of the van.
I kept filling the water a little more, then I stopped doing that and I connected the hose to the threaded city water input. I don't think I filled the tank completely. Then, I switched on the water pump, which immediately started running. I don't have a pressure regulator (though I will get one), so I only had the water spigot from my house on a little bit. About twenty seconds after turning on the water spigot on the side of my house, I started getting city water through the faucet in the galley. I also got water through the faucet in the bathroom sink, and through the larger tub/shower faucet, although I noticed that the pressure in the bathroom sink was minimal. I also turned on the water to the toilet, and flushed it. The toilet flushed OK.
So, the water pump works and water was running OK through all the faucets, but I noticed after I turned off all the faucets and shut off the water pump, that some water leaked from around the bottom of the toilet. Also, there was still about an inch or so of standing water in the tub, that would not drain. Perhaps I filled the grey water holding tank to capacity already? I'll have to ask about that when I take the van in to an RV maintenance place--it looks like I will have to do that to repair the leaks and the slow-draining tub, at the minimum.
I then plugged the RV into my house power. The A/C works great, as does the small after-market microwave and built-in refrigerator (2 cf or so, I think). I think the fridge runs just on electrical power, not propane. In any case, I've put a few drinks and a tray of ice cubes into the fridge, and turned it on up high. I checked it about an hour ago, and although the ice cubes aren't solid yet, the water in the tray is noticeably cold, and the drink bottles and cans are getting cool to the touch. I'll check it again tomorrow morning and see if the ice cubes are frozen, and the drinks are cold. The microwave works, but I only had in on for a few seconds, as I didn't want to overload the electrical system.
In any case, I also found the place where the hot water heater is turned on and off, and it's off, from what I can see. The dial for the propane tank is below that, at the bottom of the van, where someone would have to get on their hands and knees to see it. I'm sore from the race I ran last night, so that will have to wait until tomorrow. The propane tank should be full, or almost so, because I never used the stove, furnace, or hot water heater after getting the van serviced in early 2004.
So, I'll call one of the RV dealers nearby (there are three) and see if they can find and fix the leaks in my holding tanks/lines, and the leaking around the toilet. I won't take it back to the place I took it 2 1/2 years ago, as I felt they were patronizing and took longer to fix things than they should have in the off-season. I also thought they addressed the leaky holding tank and lines then, but it's possible that more leaks developed in the two years the van sat parked in my driveway.
If I was going to spend much more money on fixing the van's RV systems, I would seriously consider taking out the built-in toilet and black water tank, and replacing those with a nice porta-potty that's not hooked up to the electrical or water systems. Much easier for me to deal with. Also, the person who had the van before me put in shag carpeting in the bathroom area. I would replace that with vinyl flooring, at least in the "bathroom" area, and possibly in the whole van. I'd also put in a larger water tank and grey water holding tank if there were room. Lastly, I would seriously consider putting installing more solar panels (I have only one small one on top of the rooftop A/C), as well as a generator and inverter, so that I can run the A/C and microwave for short periods when I'm parked at the beach, campground, or at running races.
OTOH, I also know that the van may be such a "rust bucket" that it's not worth fixing, other than plugging up the water system leaks--and after that, learning to live with the limitations the van has, until I sell it, whether or not I would ever replace it. In any case, I'll keep the maintenance records for everything I've done to the van mechanically and RV-wise, so that the next owner really knows what they're getting into.
Thanks again for the advice, and please feel free to chime in with any other suggestions--
Jean in VA
P.S.--I looked again at the electrical outlet connection on the outside of the RV for "house power," and it looks like I should have gotten a 30 amp cord, although I haven't shorted out anything with the heavy-duty 15 amp cord I'm using now. Right now it's only powering the fridge, so I should be OK if I only run one appliance at a time.
****************************************************************************
On 8/13/06 4:12 PM, in article uILDg.7954$kO3.2490@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com, "Max" <thesameoldme@sbcglobal.netnot> wrote:
> If you're going to buy an extension cord to connect to the RV with the > intention of seeing if the A/C will work, be advised that you may find that [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >> >> Jean in VA Rick Onanian - 14 Aug 2006 02:33 GMT > I kept filling the water a little more, then I stopped doing that and I > connected the hose to the threaded city water input. I don't think I filled > the tank completely. Then, I switched on the water pump, which immediately > started running. The water pump should only be used when _not_ hooked up to city water.
> I don't have a pressure regulator (though I will get one), > so I only had the water spigot from my house on a little bit. About twenty Go out right now and turn it off if it's still on. Leaving it only partially open will NOT limit the pressure, it will limit the flow rate. While using it, you might as well open it up and enjoy the flow, as the pressure will equalize on each side of the valve after a few minutes either way.
> think). I think the fridge runs just on electrical power, not propane. In The controls should be obvious. If not, look for a label with specifications on it. You could be right.
> any case, I've put a few drinks and a tray of ice cubes into the fridge, and > turned it on up high. I checked it about an hour ago, and although the ice > cubes aren't solid yet, the water in the tray is noticeably cold, and the > drink bottles and cans are getting cool to the touch. I'll check it again > tomorrow morning and see if the ice cubes are frozen, and the drinks are RV fridges work best if you put stuff in already cold. They operate on different technology than other fridges which is more versatile but less effective (unless the weather is cold).
> and off, and it's off, from what I can see. The dial for the propane tank > is below that, at the bottom of the van, where someone would have to get on > their hands and knees to see it. I'm sore from the race I ran last night, I imagine it's awfully hard to fill the tank, too.
> tank and lines then, but it's possible that more leaks developed in the two > years the van sat parked in my driveway. Sitting == rotting. That's my experience.
> person who had the van before me put in shag carpeting in the bathroom area. > I would replace that with vinyl flooring, at least in the "bathroom" area, I would too, especially with unreliable plumbing.
> and possibly in the whole van. I'd also put in a larger water tank and grey > water holding tank if there were room. Lastly, I would seriously consider > putting installing more solar panels (I have only one small one on top of I wouldn't spend that money on that RV.
> the rooftop A/C), as well as a generator and inverter, so that I can run the > A/C and microwave for short periods when I'm parked at the beach, _Where_ could you squeeze a generator into a class B? The inverter won't be necessary for the generator. Using the inverter on the house battery to run the A/C even for a few minutes sounds like trouble. Should be okay for a small microwave.
> OTOH, I also know that the van may be such a "rust bucket" that it's not > worth fixing, other than plugging up the water system leaks--and after that, > learning to live with the limitations the van has, until I sell it, whether Do the repairs. Do minor upgrades, and major ones that you can keep when you replace the van. I'm a big fan of solar panels, too bad I haven't got the money for 'em.
> P.S.--I looked again at the electrical outlet connection on the outside of > the RV for "house power," and it looks like I should have gotten a 30 amp > cord, although I haven't shorted out anything with the heavy-duty 15 amp > cord I'm using now. Right now it's only powering the fridge, so I should be > OK if I only run one appliance at a time. You can probably run a few appliances as long as you're not running the A/C. If your A/C's power cord is visble, and has a regular plug on the end of it, you might consider running a second 15 amp cord from an outlet on a different circuit.
You probably don't have a 30 amp circuit at your house, so a heavier cord won't help. If you did plug a 15 amp cord into a 30 amp outlet, and tried to run 30 amps worth of stuff off it, you wouldn't short anything out; you would overheat the cord and possible start a FIRE. Also, if I understand correctly, the overloaded cord will resist flowing enough power cause damage to the A/C motor.
GBinNC - 14 Aug 2006 04:12 GMT >_Where_ could you squeeze a generator into a class B? Say what? Most Class Bs have generators, and I wouldn't have a van without one.
The Onan 2.8 Microlite in mine (the usual genset for a B) is mounted under the van body, between the frame rails near the rear of the van.
It's heck to get to for service -- but it's for sure out of the way <g>.
GB in NC
Jon Porter - 14 Aug 2006 04:17 GMT > _Where_ could you squeeze a generator into a class B? On mine, there is an outside storage compartment that came from the factory "generator ready." I decided that I wanted the genny more than the storage space. The other possible location is underneath the vehicle, but on mine there was no where for that. I have also seen generators mounted under the bed on Class B's.
 Signature Jon JPinOH
Jon Porter - 14 Aug 2006 04:23 GMT > Hi folks, > When I got home I started filling the van with water. I found that the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > not drain. Perhaps I filled the grey water holding tank to capacity > already? The holding tank is probably full. You might be able to fis the toilet leak by tightening the mounting bolts on the bottom of the toilet. That water dripping from under the van could be coming from open low point drains in the water lines, and even an open drain valve on the fresh water tank.
 Signature Jon JPinOH
Rick Onanian - 14 Aug 2006 01:20 GMT > fill the water tank. I don't have one of those white "sanitary grade" > hoses, so I'll need to get one of those. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > connected in any way to the automotive battery, and could not be, for that > would run down the automotive battery very quickly? Like I said, I bought A/C requires 120V AC power. The battery is 12V DC. With an expensive inverter, you might run it off the battery for a few minutes, but then you're right, the battery will run down fast. You probably don't have an inverter anyway.
> After I go out to buy the white water hose and some longer extension cords > (so I can plug the van into my house power), I'll post here again and tell You'll probably need an adapter. Look at the plug on the camper.
> it was an older van, I needed to pump the accelerator a couple of time when > starting it. He said that the carburetor needed gas in it [...] >That said, the van does not start up as easily as my car Depending on your age, you may or may not remember how to start carbureted vehicles. I never learned, and have a hell of a time starting my 1980 Buick. I look (and feel) like a fool doing it.
> needed to go out and start the van at least once a week. Since I don't know > what I'm doing mechanically, for me that means to start it twice or three > times a week, and let it run until it warms up--I guess that would mean 10 > minutes or so each time? Not knowing what you're doing mechanically doesn't change how often you should start it.
10 minutes is no good. That's long enough to stir up the bad stuff in the oil and exhaust, but not long enough to burn any of it off. You'll get condensation in your oil, causing fast wear, and in your exhaust, causing premature rust and rot. Drive it, preferrably on the highway, for a half hour. This will also make sure your starting battery is well charged and maintained.
> I just don't want to inadvertently flood out the van when I attempt to start AFAIK, it's no big deal if you flood it. I've had a 1980 Buick for about a year that I use once a week at most (except last week when my daily driver was in the shop), and if I've flooded it yet, I didn't notice -- and I'm entirely inexperienced with carbureted engines. Eventually I'll get it changed to fuel injection.
> it, nor leave it sit too long so that I would have to jump the battery. The > automotive battery is wedged in under the hood so tightly so that I have > trouble getting jumper cables to the battery terminals--and, the battery is > larger, and so I also have trouble moving/lifting it. AAA and other road service companies have a plug sticking out of their grill for special plug-in jumper cables to jump other vehicles. You might be able to get a similar product and hook the plug end to your battery, then you can plug in the regular end of the cables and hook up to any vehicle that's around.
Erm...come to think of it, you might consider becoming a member of AAA.
> So, I'll go to Lowe's and get what I need, and try filling the water tank, > etc and get back to you all. Lowes won't have that stuff. Wal Mart has most of it.
As I recommended before, you will benefit greatly from Trailer Life's Rv Repair and Maintenance Manual by Bob Livingston. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0934798702/104-3397403-4434340
Jean S. Barto - 14 Aug 2006 02:21 GMT Thanks for the suggestions, and also refer to another post I've just added under a new title (Update...), that explains everything I did this afternoon, along with a couple more questions.
I start school again on August 21st (a second degree, this time in Clinical Lab Science), and Thursdays is my "free day" this semester, so that would be the one day I could drive the van around to charge up the battery. Or, I could get a parking pass for the van at school and drive it to school and back one day a week--however, the one-way trip is only 20 minutes or so, not quite long enough for it to be totally warmed up/charged.
I have vague recollections of having to pump the accelerator on my first car, a good used 1972 Buick Skylark, a 21st birthday present from my parents. I had that car from 1976 until 1981, when I traded it in for a Dotson 210 hatchback, my first car bought with my own money, but with parents co-signing the loan. The Skylark, and my present car (Acura Integra) were the best cars I've owned, the others not as good. I keep a car until it dies, or in the case of a 1987 Hyundai, until I PCS'ed to Korea the summer of 1989. I'll be keeping my Acura for another three years (until 300K at least), until I'm done with my degree and well-employed as a clinical lab scientist/researcher.
Jean in VA
On 8/13/06 8:20 PM, in article 1155514845.042766.263720@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "Rick Onanian" <groups.theholycow@xoxy.net> wrote:
>> fill the water tank. I don't have one of those white "sanitary grade" >> hoses, so I'll need to get one of those. [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > Rv Repair and Maintenance Manual by Bob Livingston. > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0934798702/104-3397403-4434340 Max - 14 Aug 2006 02:23 GMT >> fill the water tank. I don't have one of those white "sanitary grade" >> hoses, so I'll need to get one of those. [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > Rv Repair and Maintenance Manual by Bob Livingston. > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0934798702/104-3397403-4434340 For shame Rick. Most carbureted engines (at least the ones just prior to fuel injection) have automatic chokes. It's a butterfly arrangement that "chokes" off the air supply by constricting the air flow through the carburetor. This creates a rich fuel/air mixture that the engine needs in order to start. To "set" the automatic choke, press the accelerator all the way to the floor *once* and let it up. Then turn the key to start (or press the start button). The engine will run a little fast for awhile (until it warms up somewhat) because there is a small cam that sets a slightly fast throttle. By "tapping" the throttle after a few minutes, you can "reset" the cam and the engine will assume a normal idle. Unless "Jean's" vehicle is badly out of adjustment, the procedure should work for her. If she lets the vehicle set for a long time between uses, the fuel in the carburetor may evaporate and there won't be enough fuel to start it. In that case, cranking the engine a few revolutions will allow the fuel pump to pump more fuel into the carburetor. Then proceed with the method I described for "setting" the choke.
Max
Rick Onanian - 14 Aug 2006 02:55 GMT > "Rick Onanian" <groups.theholycow@xoxy.net> wrote in message > > carbureted vehicles. I never learned, and have a hell of a time > > starting my 1980 Buick. I look (and feel) like a fool doing it. > > notice -- and I'm entirely inexperienced with carbureted engines.
> For shame Rick. For shame? I'm only a year older than the car. By the time I was old enough to learn how mom and dad start their vehicles, they were fuel injected.
> have automatic chokes. > "set" the automatic choke, press the accelerator all the way to the floor > *once* and let it up. Then turn the key to start (or press the start I thought that was the proper procedure, but it never works. My procedure, as taught by my dad who manages to improvise procedures like this that work but are embarassing, is to repeatedly press the accelerator as fast as my foot can while cranking.
> button). The engine will run a little fast for awhile (until it warms up > somewhat) because there is a small cam that sets a slightly fast throttle. > By "tapping" the throttle after a few minutes, you can "reset" the cam and > the engine will assume a normal idle. Heh, not mine. It's malfunctioning. It will idle fast all day most of the time, although occasionally it will idle down to a reasonable level after driving it to a few places and turning it off and on a few times. While driving it all last week (b/c my daily driver was in the shop) the last couple days it was idling so slow that it would stall randomly. It's got a vacuum leak, or so says my mechanic -- and I'm going to try to find and fix it myself, since I sometimes manage to enjoy that sort of thing.
> work for her. If she lets the vehicle set for a long time between uses, the > fuel in the carburetor may evaporate and there won't be enough fuel to start Should there be any concern of the fuel in the carburetor gumming up as the volatile components evaporate while the remaining stuff stays? In my generator and my lawnmower, whose carburetors are equipped with bowls, letting them sit for extended periods with gas in the bowl and without running will result in a no-start condition, requiring the whole damn carb to spend a few days submerged in carb cleaner.
Lone Haranguer - 14 Aug 2006 03:21 GMT >>"Rick Onanian" <groups.theholycow@xoxy.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > this that work but are embarassing, is to repeatedly press the > accelerator as fast as my foot can while cranking. Only needed if the float chamber is empty. Probably the seat on the float valve is gummy, worn or cocked, allowing the gas to run back and not keep the float chamber full.
>>button). The engine will run a little fast for awhile (until it warms up >>somewhat) because there is a small cam that sets a slightly fast throttle. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > going to try to find and fix it myself, since I sometimes manage to > enjoy that sort of thing. Fixing an automatic choke is simplicity itself. Squirt the carb with carb cleaner to make sure the little cam arm is freed up. On most the choke spring is adjustable. If it won't adjust, get a new spring.
>>work for her. If she lets the vehicle set for a long time between uses, the >>fuel in the carburetor may evaporate and there won't be enough fuel to start [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > without running will result in a no-start condition, requiring the > whole damn carb to spend a few days submerged in carb cleaner. I used to let my old hunting car sit 5 months and jump right in and start it right up. A '70 Ford station wagon with the 400 engine. Didn't matter if it was 35 below and the battery half dead, that sucker would start. LZ
Max - 14 Aug 2006 03:37 GMT > Should there be any concern of the fuel in the carburetor gumming up as > the volatile components evaporate while the remaining stuff stays? In > my generator and my lawnmower, whose carburetors are equipped with > bowls, letting them sit for extended periods with gas in the bowl and > without running will result in a no-start condition, requiring the > whole damn carb to spend a few days submerged in carb cleaner. There is not as much concern as there used to be. The Gummint has mandated certain fuel standards that help in that situation. BUT, if the engine sits idle (not idling <G>) for a long period of time, it would be wise to use an additive to prevent excess evaporation. I'm strongly opposed to using such additives in motor vehicles because the vehicles should be run in order to lubricate all the moving parts. I would also add that I have not had any problems with engines in: chain saws, lawn mowers, pressure washers, etc. in many years, probably because of the fuel standards. So if you have to add Stabil (one brand of stabilizer) *AND* you're using good quality fuel, something else is wrong. But, yes, several years ago evaporating fuel would leave nasty residue.
Max
Jon Porter - 14 Aug 2006 04:09 GMT > I also figured out that the A/C system (rooftop-mounted) wasn't working > when [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > connected in any way to the automotive battery, and could not be, for that > would run down the automotive battery very quickly? No, gotta plug it in to run the roof top AC.
> After I go out to buy the white water hose and some longer extension cords > (so I can plug the van into my house power), I'll post here again and tell > you what happened after I've tried to do everything. Make sure the extension cord is rated to handle 15 amps or better. A lower rating could cause the cord to heat up, and 15 amps is good enough for a Class B unless you intend to run everything electrical in it at the same time. Your wall outlet that you'll probaly plug it into is probably rated for 15 amps.
> The mechanic also said that I > needed to go out and start the van at least once a week. Since I don't > know > what I'm doing mechanically, for me that means to start it twice or three > times a week, and let it run until it warms up--I guess that would mean 10 > minutes or so each time? Drive it somewhere once a week. The difference in gas milage between the van and your car isn't that much, and you may as well enjoy having all of the comforts of the Class B with you. Just warming it up doesn't really do it much good, all of the mechanical parts should get a workout. Drive it!
 Signature Jon JPinOH
Jon Porter - 14 Aug 2006 04:00 GMT > To sanitize your water system, place a few (~8 oz or so) ounces of > bleach in the tank filler and then fill the tank. Run the pump and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > side of the tube. If there isn't enough bleach, add a few more ounces > to the tank. Whoa! There's no need for guess work on the bleach concentration, even with test strips. The accepted standard for sanitizing is 6 ounces of chlorine bleach per 10 gallons of water. If the water tank on the Class B is 20 gallons (mine is) then double those amounts. Run some of it through the pipes and let it sit for a good half hour. Drain the fresh water tank, refill once and drain again. Flush out the pipes from the city water connection. Job done, no need to make it any more complicated than that.
 Signature Jon JPinOH
Neon John - 14 Aug 2006 05:34 GMT >> To sanitize your water system, place a few (~8 oz or so) ounces of >> bleach in the tank filler and then fill the tank. Run the pump and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >refill once and drain again. Flush out the pipes from the city water >connection. Job done, no need to make it any more complicated than that. Whoa yourself, jon. Your "dump'n'pray" formula results in about 480 ppm chlorine, depending on the bleach concentration (assuming 10% chlorine) - gross overkill. Not necessary and will result in a difficult to get rid of bleach taste and odor. Doing it my way gets the job done but without the necessity of multiple fresh water flushes.
John --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
Frank Tabor - 14 Aug 2006 16:45 GMT >>> To sanitize your water system, place a few (~8 oz or so) ounces of >>> bleach in the tank filler and then fill the tank. Run the pump and [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >the job done but without the necessity of multiple fresh water >flushes. Reading from 2 different brands of bleach bottles, household bleach is only 6%.
 Signature Frank Tabor
Jon Porter - 14 Aug 2006 19:23 GMT >>>> To sanitize your water system, place a few (~8 oz or so) ounces of >>>> bleach in the tank filler and then fill the tank. Run the pump and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Reading from 2 different brands of bleach bottles, household bleach is > only 6%. Not only that, the formula that I gave is not "dump and pray," it's a common standard used for sanitation. And there isn't a chlorine odor problem for me after refilling and draining the fresh water tank once with plain water.
 Signature Jon JPinOH
Al Balmer - 14 Aug 2006 17:35 GMT >>> To sanitize your water system, place a few (~8 oz or so) ounces of >>> bleach in the tank filler and then fill the tank. Run the pump and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >ppm chlorine, depending on the bleach concentration (assuming 10% >chlorine) - gross overkill. The fact that you could do that calculation says that it's not a "dump and pray" formula. Also, for those of us who are not former restaurant owners, bleach isn't 10% chlorine. It's usually 5.25% sodium hypochlorite. But, you're right about it being gross overkill for on-going use. The EPA recommendation is 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, and that's more than your usual household supply (1-3ppm). Here's an example discussion: http://www.doulton.ca/rv_dilem.html
You can use higher concentrations for a shock treatment, followed by a thorough flush. That's what Jon was talking about, and the numbers he gave are at the high end of the range I've seen recommended. I had a user's manual that said 50ppm for 4 hours or 100ppm for 1 hour, but I've seen the 6 oz per 10 gallon recommendation as well.
> Not necessary and will result in a >difficult to get rid of bleach taste and odor. Doing it my way gets >the job done but without the necessity of multiple fresh water >flushes. For shocking, the flush is part of the treatment. You want to get rid of the nasties, even if they're dead.
 Signature Al Balmer Sun City, AZ
Rick Onanian - 14 Aug 2006 20:00 GMT > hypochlorite. But, you're right about it being gross overkill for > on-going use. The EPA recommendation is 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of > water, and that's more than your usual household supply (1-3ppm). > Here's an example discussion: > http://www.doulton.ca/rv_dilem.html Egads...the amounts of bleach that I and others discussed would be dangerous if not lethal if you just dumped it in and drank the bleached water. The procedure I posted was for cleaning the system (described by you as a "shock treatment"). The bleach is used as a cleaner, not a drinking water treatment. You wouldn't leave dish soap in your beer mug and pour a beer in.
I, personally, wouldn't want even the "usual household supply" that I've tasted in many city water systems. I don't want to ingest that stuff! I also don't eat McDonald's. Which one is more poisonous, I can't guess. <G>
> You can use higher concentrations for a shock treatment, followed by a > thorough flush. That's what Jon was talking about, and the numbers he > gave are at the high end of the range I've seen recommended. I had a > user's manual that said 50ppm for 4 hours or 100ppm for 1 hour, but > I've seen the 6 oz per 10 gallon recommendation as well. That sounds like a similar dosage to what's recommended in the book that I like.
> For shocking, the flush is part of the treatment. You want to get rid > of the nasties, even if they're dead. Good idea...that hadn't even occured to me. I just figured a lot of flushing was necessary to make sure I wouldn't ingest any bleach. The book recommends emptying the system (including hot water tank, which should also have been treated with bleach) and flushing with baking soda (approximately the same dosage as bleach) to get rid of the bleach smell. I proceeded, additionally, to flush the whole system at least twice with fresh water.
When flushing with as much detail as I did, be sure to run each side of each faucet long enough to flush the line going to the faucet, each flush.
It was a big project, but I can probably trust my water system now.
HT - 12 Aug 2006 22:08 GMT >Hi folks-- > >I probably asked this before when I last accessed the newsgroups, but I'd >really like to find out where I could get an operating manual for my vintage >class B RV--a 18"to 19' long 1979 Dodge Ram. I bought it back in late 2003, I knew I would find it if I kept looking. Here's a Yahoo Groups url for classic Class B's. They are sorta active, but I bet they would jump at the chance to find something new to talk about there. Give them a try, it might be your best source.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Classic_B_Vans/
 Signature HT
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