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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2006Kingpin extender
Has anyone used the kingpin extender (http://www.popuphitch.com/rv5.htm) for towing a 5th-wheel with a short-box pick-em-up truck? Looks like replacing one accidentally busted rear window could pay the cost. Comments???? Tom: What kind of Pickup do you have and what bed? Most of the GM products have the full and short (or standard) beds. We have pulled with the shorter bed on two GM extended cabs with no problem. However, the GM Crew cab has three with the shortest being shorter than the extended cab standard and it is short for 5th wheeling. I understand some of the short Fords are the same way. RonB > Has anyone used the kingpin extender (http://www.popuphitch.com/rv5.htm) > for towing a 5th-wheel with a short-box pick-em-up truck? Looks like > replacing one accidentally busted rear window could pay the cost. > > Comments???? > Has anyone used the kingpin extender (http://www.popuphitch.com/rv5.htm) > for towing a 5th-wheel with a short-box pick-em-up truck? Looks like > replacing one accidentally busted rear window could pay the cost. > > Comments???? While a lot will depend upon which "short-box pick-em-up truck" you have [an Avalanche is not, really, a pickup] , you'd be far better off with a Pullrite sliding hitch. Personally, I wouldn't want to attempt using that "extender" with any but the very lightest trailers: my Montana's 2,800 lb. pin weight would, probably, bend it. >Personally, I wouldn't want to attempt using that "extender" with any but >the very lightest trailers: my Montana's 2,800 lb. pin weight would, >probably, bend it. Wise advise because a bigger concern to the the added leverage strain that it place on the hitch mounts on the trailer and where it ties in to trailer frame. I would be more worried about that than the extender because you can see if it is starting to give. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > Avalanche is not, really, a pickup] It's not? I mean, yeah, especially the early ones are hideous and all, but isn't it just a Silverado with a body-full of cladding tacked on? When it comes to FIFTHWHEEL trailering, I can't even IMAGINE it with an Avalanche. To its credit, however, my neighbor up two doors has a home-based business and he hauled around a lot of trailers with a 2500 Avalanche. A special order, do you suppose? <grin> > you'd be far better off with a Pullrite sliding hitch. Agreed. > Personally, I wouldn't want to attempt using that "extender" with any but > the very lightest trailers: my Montana's 2,800 lb. pin weight would, > probably, bend it. Of course, the outfit that dreamed-up this device will have plenty to support their invention, but I agree that their best expenditure of money AND time would be with the sliding hitch. Good luck.  Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > > Avalanche is not, really, a pickup] > > It's not? I mean, yeah, especially the early ones are hideous and all, but > isn't it just a Silverado with a body-full of cladding tacked on? Nope. It's a Suburban with the walls chopped off in the back. They start with a Suburban and remove everything that's not an Avalanche. Especially telling of this is that the bed is not separated from the body the way it would be on a pickup, and is mounted to the frame the way the rest of the body is, with shock-absorbing body mounts (rather than big thick steel bolts and direct contact). It is truly an SUV with a little exterior trunk area. You can't even install ladder racks on the couple feet of bedrail that it has. Want to talk about hideously ugly? How about the Explorer Sport Trac or whatever Ford calls their SUV with an exposed trunk? They didn't need to add a bunch of awful plastic cladding...they made it ugly right down to it's basic shape. > When it comes to FIFTHWHEEL trailering, I can't even IMAGINE it with an > Avalanche. To its credit, however, my neighbor up two doors has a home-based I bet the manual says no fifthwheel trailering. > business and he hauled around a lot of trailers with a 2500 Avalanche. A > special order, do you suppose? <grin> It ought to do a decent job with ball hitch trailers. > > Personally, I wouldn't want to attempt using that "extender" with any but > > the very lightest trailers: my Montana's 2,800 lb. pin weight would, > > probably, bend it. > > Of course, the outfit that dreamed-up this device will have plenty to support Speaking of support...I'd be afraid to use it with "the very lightest trailers" -- those are the ones whose construction is weakest. > Has anyone used the kingpin extender (http://www.popuphitch.com/rv5.htm) > for towing a 5th-wheel with a short-box pick-em-up truck? Looks like > replacing one accidentally busted rear window could pay the cost. Unless you're WAAAAY out of warranty and they overbuilt the existing kingpin box/system, I wouldn't take the chance that some aftermarket "extender" would compromise the hitching and towing integrity of my system. If you're towing with a "short" box pickup, live with it: Be ESPECIALLY careful when backing or pop for the $$ required to get an apropriate "sliding" hitch. Don't cobble something onto the trailer's MOST IMPORTANT part. Signature:) JR Still wondering about my earlier question - What kind of pickup does he have. The Chevy/GM extended cab short beds (now referred to as "standard bed" are plenty adequate for 5th wheel towing. Granted my RV guy mounted my rails slightly aft of normal (an inch or two - barley noticeable) but you do not have to worry about contacting the cab in any forward towing situation. Tight backing does require some caution (a vigilant wife). The same RV guy will not recommend installing a 5th wheel hitch in a short bed GM crew cab for RV applications. That bed is too short unless you are pulling narrow body trailers like some horse or heavy utility trailers. RonB >> Has anyone used the kingpin extender (http://www.popuphitch.com/rv5.htm) >> for towing a 5th-wheel with a short-box pick-em-up truck? Looks like [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "sliding" > hitch. Don't cobble something onto the trailer's MOST IMPORTANT part. > Tight backing does require some caution (a vigilant wife). That sounds so dirty. <BFG> Anyway, what about some sort of feelers? Wait, that sounds dirty too. Something sticking out erect from the front of the trailer...eek... Er, why not put something on that will contact first and make a crunching sound without breaking anything? I'm thinking a thin piece of wood attached to the trailer, or something like plexiglas a few inches from the rear window of the truck. Thanks, all. Looks like a lot of "advice" without answering the basic question I asked: "Has anyone used the kingpin extender". Lots of "opinions", but no definitive statements from experience. BTW, the pickup truck is a Chevy '00 Silverado 4-door. > Has anyone used the kingpin extender (http://www.popuphitch.com/rv5.htm) > for towing a 5th-wheel with a short-box pick-em-up truck? Looks like > replacing one accidentally busted rear window could pay the cost. > > Comments???? >Thanks, all. Looks like a lot of "advice" without answering the >basic question I asked: "Has anyone used the kingpin extender". >Lots of "opinions", but no definitive statements from experience. >BTW, the pickup truck is a Chevy '00 Silverado 4-door. Apparently not, for the reasons you've been given. SignatureFrank Tabor > Thanks, all. Looks like a lot of "advice" without answering the > basic question I asked: "Has anyone used the kingpin extender". > Lots of "opinions", but no definitive statements from experience. > BTW, the pickup truck is a Chevy '00 Silverado 4-door. If Silverado 4-door means extended cab, I don't think I would worry about it. Just be careful with tight backing if you have the shorter bed If it means crew cab with the shortest bed (shorter than the extended bed "standard" short bed); you probably need to look at a slider or other alternate. Frankly, I am not sure what beds were offered in '00. RonB Bottom line I think is "it depends" on your trailer and truck. I havae a crew cab GMC with a short box and have no problems but my trailer has a relatively long extension box. Others, for example the Alfa, that don't have any box at all is another story. In any case I think I would go for the slider because as others pointed out the leverage strain on the hitch and the trailer frame might be excessive. A few days ago I saw a truck that had a sliding rear window and was pulling a 5th wheel. It had cardboard taped over one of the rear windows. But I didn't note what kind of trailer or box he had. > Thanks, all. Looks like a lot of "advice" without answering the > basic question I asked: "Has anyone used the kingpin extender". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> Comments???? I see where Rich256 <nospam@nospam.net> contributed: >A few days ago I saw a truck that had a sliding rear window and was >pulling a 5th wheel. It had cardboard taped over one of the rear >windows. But I didn't note what kind of trailer or box he had. ::sigh:: This question is as old as the tire pressure and Wal-Mart overnighting thread. The simple truth is that ANY situation where the cab-to-pin dimension is less that half the width of the trailer nose is a potential problem. In MOSt cases no harm will be done with a full-lock forward turn, but backing can and will cause damge to the cab, trailer or both. It is simple plane geometry, folks. On "extenders", they do place additional stress on the trailer (hard to tell if that matters) but in any event are useless in preventing jackknife damage unless they move the trailer far enough back to miss the cab. For extra credit, remember this - placing the hitch behind the truck's axle negates some of the benefit of a fifth-wheel. I do NOT recommend it for several reasons, not the least of which is that if it were moved far enough to eliminate jacknife interference the combination would be somewhat unstable. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill > I see where Rich256 <nospam@nospam.net> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Will Sill > The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Yeah, I expect you can get dozens of stories "I used one for XX years and never had any trouble" but another foot or more of leverage on the front has to change the trailer dynamics in more ways than one. I expect one could compare it to putting a kingpin box on a Gooseneck. Maybe!! I don't think any of these discussions are talking about moving the hitch behind the truck's axle, except the slider when parking. That may have been my truck you saw with the cardboard taped over it. (I90 in Momtana, Idaho, Washington???). I don't really think the weight on the hitch, or whatever you're gonna call it, leverage strain, whatever, will be a factor. I have a 25' Salem Light trailer and don't plan to get anything bigger. I don't know the kingpin weight, but it sure ain't what you'll find on one of those monster trailers you see around. > Bottom line I think is "it depends" on your trailer and truck. I havae > a crew cab GMC with a short box and have no problems but my trailer has [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>> >>> Comments???? Nope, This one was near Granby, Colorado. Easy to do even when you think you have a lot of clearance. Get distracted by something else when backing up and pop!! > That may have been my truck you saw with the cardboard taped over > it. (I90 in Momtana, Idaho, Washington???). [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >>>> >>>> Comments???? TomW wrote: Thanks, all. Looks like a lot of "advice" without answering the basic question I asked: "Has anyone used the kingpin extender". Lots of "opinions", but no definitive statements from experience. BTW, the pickup truck is a Chevy '00 Silverado 4-door. I would say that when about 6 people, who are in the know, tell you not to buy a kingpin extender..........that is a "definitive statement". You're probably right, but none of them are "in the know", they're all just speculating. None have any actual experience with this. Oh, well, just fergit I mentioned it!!!! > TomW wrote: Thanks, all. Looks like a lot of "advice" without answering the > basic question I asked: "Has anyone used the kingpin extender". Lots of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I would say that when about 6 people, who are in the know, tell you not to > buy a kingpin extender..........that is a "definitive statement". >You're probably right, but none of them are "in the know", they're >all just speculating. None have any actual experience with this. >Oh, well, just fergit I mentioned it!!!! How do you know they aren't "In the know"? It's sort of obvious that if you had any experience at all in pulling a fifth wheel, you wouldn't be here asking if the device was a good thing. Those of us "In the know" already know that a lot of manufacturers put an extended pin box on, but it's mounted directly to the frame, not hung out in thin air like the unit you showed. My unit has 3000 lb pin weight. I sure wouldn't want to add another 10" to the lever action my pin box already has. the frame probably wouldn't handle it. And that's what we've been trying to tell you. But you're bound an determined that you don't want the advice of experienced users, you want some dufuss to tell you it's alright to put one on. So you go ahead and get one, and try it out. Be sure to trot right back in here and let us know about how the welds all broke loose on your king pin box, and how the manufacturer laughed at you when you tried to get it repaired under warranty. That is, if you survive the crash. SignatureFrank Tabor > You're probably right, but none of them are "in the know", > they're all just speculating. That's true as I have never had one or talked with anyone that does. > None have any actual experience with this. True. > Oh, well, just fergit I mentioned it!!!! Not at all. Your question HAD to be asked in the event that there WAS someone here with firsthand experience. I guess there isn't such a reader/lurker/participant here. Sorry. If you do get one, please let us know about it! Signature:) JR I see where "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerry@righthere.com> contributed: >TomW wrote: Thanks, all. Looks like a lot of "advice" without answering the >basic question I asked: "Has anyone used the kingpin extender". Lots of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I would say that when about 6 people, who are in the know, tell you not to >buy a kingpin extender..........that is a "definitive statement". But you don't understand, Jerry -- Tom is looking for someone to tell him he is brilliant for having discovered this gadget. It appears not to have occurred to him that there are several good reasons why ex[perienced people advise against it. For example if you wanted to twist and perhaps break off the kingpin, a good way to do it would be to bolt something on in the manner illustrated by the peddler. I agree with Frank - he oughta go buy one and take his chances. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Will Sill <will@epix.gnet> wrote in news:02rce2pbbkdgar6g1nrl4787cpt3c9khuv@ 4ax.com: > But you don't understand, Jerry -- Tom is looking for someone to tell > him he is brilliant for having discovered this gadget. It appears [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I agree with Frank - he oughta go buy one and take his chances. Why should he _BUY_ one? The way he's pushing them, he probably _SELLS_ them! <EG> SignatureQuotations from Tom Gorrell: "A wing nut without a left or right is just a nut. Which best describes me" "I'm sorry about the erratic weather and must admit it's been caused by the pinko commie Clinton & Reno supporters." "I am hiding nothing, other than the fact that I'm homosexual." Quotation from the Graphic Queer: "I have always advocated the death of the human being and I see that I was right all along. This earth will be so much better off once we are no longer part of the mix." > Will Sill <will@epix.gnet> wrote in news:02rce2pbbkdgar6g1nrl4787cpt3c9khuv@ > 4ax.com: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > The way he's pushing them, he probably _SELLS_ them! <EG> With all due respects to the responders and their good advice, answers like the above don't encourage folks to ask questions here. Tom has already revealed he has a light weight 5th wheel. As for myself, I don't care for the design of this particular extender. I'd rather use an extended pin box. That said, there are good frames and bad frames out there. Avion had a 5th wheel with a really poor frame, even with the standard pin box stress deformed the frame. Hugh >> The way he's pushing them, he probably _SELLS_ them! <EG> >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > deformed the frame. > Hugh Given the level of argumentiveness shown by the OP, it'll be interesting to see if he denies Eregon's charge. We've all seen far too many "gimmicks" that, to the Inventor/Marketer, is the simplest/cheapest/handiest thing in the World but, in the World, just doesn't work well. For example: "Sock Rings" [those platic Pince-Nez gizmos with the tabs inside] actually do work - IFF people put the dirty socks through the circles before putting them in the laundry. For years, these were simply given away by companies who couldn't sell them for any price. OTOH, the US Patent Office can supply millions [billions?] of Patents for devices that do absolutely nothing. We have all, at one time or another, succombed to the temptation to "shoestring" a solution [take the ultra-cheap way out] only to find that, in the long run, we've spent twice as much on the "innovative" approach as we would have on the "conventional" one. This specific issue - insufficient bed length - has been around since the first time someone hitched a fifth-wheel trailer to a short-bed pickup and is unlikely to go away very soon. The problem is now compounded by the various manufacturers who have inundated the market with Ultra-Short-Bed Trucks and Bob-Tailed SUVs that don't even have sufficient bed space for a Pull-Rite Slider. [A Hitch Buddy dollie is *their* only hope.] |
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